Teaching Self defense

[red5angel]

Ok, let's assume you have accepted the responsibility of putting together and teaching a self defense course for the masses. You get to determine just about every detail and let's also assume that you are smart enough to spend a goodly amount of time going over awareness of environment, starnger assesment, etc.... What would you put into a self defense course to teach your average joe/jane? What techniques? How long would the course be? Those sorts of things.

[Mr Punch]

Everybody knows... altogether now...

In any REALISTIC self defence course you HAVE TO know how to use EVERYDAY objects, pens, chairs, concert grand pianos etc :rolleyes:



Plus of course, lots of chi blasts, a diet consisting completely of beans and red meat, ground work on broken glass, situational awareness, dim mak and eye gouges...

Anything else you need to know?

[old jong]

Self-defense courses are usually B.S.

[TjD]

Originally posted by old jong
Self-defense courses are usually B.S.

amen!

like a few half hour courses are going to teach you how to defend yourself?

a lot of people train a martial art for YEARS and still can't defend themselves. what are a few self defense classes going to do except give people a false sense of security?

if you want real self defense, go buy a gun and learn how to shoot it.

[No_Know]

G o o d mo r n i n g M r. M A T.

using a grand piano as obstical perhaps. Give an assailant the run-around.

teach moving from the bottom of the missionary position (rape).

Show head self defense posture. Teach yeildings (folding-into, giving way, deflecting,absorbing). Teach backing-up. Teach running away. Teach reading timing--sensing the acting on Intent)...

[red5angel]

Well guys, if you have bothered to do any research, or maybe you could if you haven't, you would find that roughly 80% of the time, if a victim fights an attacker, the attacker gives up and goes away. This is random type violence, mostly against women, that sort of thing.

With that in mind, try again.

[Mr Punch]

Most SD courses are BS because they give people a false sense of security. That doesn't mean that all SD courses have to give people a false sense of security.

And if your MA doesn't give a good idea of how to avoid these sits, how to get out of them and run quickly, or how to cause extreme pain and/or damage over your 'average' joe blow assailant... it's a bull**** MA.

Seriously, I think six weeks (maybe three sessions a week) should be enough to give someone an introduction, scaring them enough to know they're never gonna be Superman, but not so much as they're gonna wet themselves when they use their new-found spidey sense to detect a potential bad situation, and to give them the basics of a good KISS programme.

Things that maybe people don't normally think of/can't be stressed too much:

1) To start with, I would get big guys, preferably who haven't washed for a while, in a room full of mats; blindfold the victims (er... course participants), or put on some low lighting and a couple of really bright ones... and get the guys to pick them up by surprise and throw/jerk them around, to shout at them and push them, maybe even total shockers like the odd bucket of cold water... just to completely get rid of any preconceptions they may have of anything that may happen in a 'situation', abnd to get them used to being grabbed, held and otherwise manhandled in a way they may not be at all used to.

2) Basic reactions: something, anything as a barrier/feeler/strike/twisting evasion reaction against this manhandling. Anything that causes pain to the big lug.

3) Continue with above: KISS techniques.
Stamps.
Heel rakes.
Elbows.
Twists away.
Fish-hooks/digging in.
And most importantly, teaching them to run across the room and out the door ASAP.

4) Basic punches, and when to use.
Basic palm heels and when to use.

5) Basic takedowns (getting them used to getting slammed), and basic escapes from the ground.

6) Basic grounding ideas... sinking your posture, relaxing your unused muscles: including when you can kick/knee, and when grounding is gonna get you squished.

7) Pepper spray, watches and other hard objects, heels, heavy footwear, handbags etc.

8) Just when they are getting a bit confident with all this, get the big guys to ignore them and throw them down again, til they realise that they really really are better off running.

9) Of course, situational awareness and conflict escalation awareness with shouting, pushing, eyeballing etc.

10) Grand piano techs.

[red5angel]

Most SD courses are BS because they give people a false sense of security. That doesn't mean that all SD courses have to give people a false sense of security.

Absolutely, and it is important that any real good SD class start out by explaining this and demonstrating it.

I like your first idea, especially where you teach them to do anything to get out of the room.

[Ford Prefect]

http://www.rmcat.com/page2.html

[truewrestler]

From what I've heard, hiring Ryu to do the self-defense class would be the best idea :D

[No_Know]

"if you want real self defense, go buy a gun and learn how to shoot it."

If they are young enough and quick they could hamper my getting the gun out and if I depend on the gun if I drop it, lose it, have it taken from me I might psychologically be in bad darknessand be useless scared.

It also means I bring a killing tool that the assailant might not have had/ brought...That is bringing the gun to get me killed.

Person is perhaps already unbalanced and might shoot me for threatening them for even reaching for the gun ... and tell me I shouldn't want them dead If I want dead, BANG! yeah! try to kill me? and rob me (dead with the Gun you suggested I bring), Travis.

You think training for proficiency in random hectic situation with a concealed or holstered gun has a significantly higher successfulness rate to Non-gun Self-defense or Kung-Fu/Martial Arts?

And you reSPect guns?

[pvwingchun]

1. Threat assessment and how to avoid bad situations. Never getting in it is the first requirement of getting out of it.

2. Treat them like they will be treated by an attacker. Mat's idea about getting some big guys is a good one.

3. How to create pain for that element of surprise to break free. You have to be willing to take a little pain from those you are teaching the techniques to. Keeping in mind that pain isn't always effective to the attacker.

4. Simple, easy to learn, easy to remember ways of attacking the attacker and ways of getting out of holds, chokes, grabs, etc. Nothing flashy or showy just straight forward techniques to vital points, eyes, nose, etc., that will make the attacker "stop and think".

5. Then drill them to death through role playing constantly changing scenarios with all levels of threat form the harmless drunk to the suave serial rapist to the common mugger and on and on......

[Ryu]

Well first of all, if you maliciously throw a bunch of inexperienced men and women, blindfolded, into a room with huge assailants that throw them around and swear at them, you'll have a number of legal issues to deal with, lots of traumatized people sueing your ass off, etc.

...And good on them for doing so in my opinion. You don't do that to people until they have progressively risen their understanding of reality, adrenaline management, etc. Regardless of how "realistic" you think it is.

Self defense CAN be taught in shorter amount of times if taught as concepts mixed with physical resistance training. Concepts that apply to all situations are much more practical than techniques taught for individual situations.

What I am offering these days as far as "self-defense" is concerned is programs that spread out for usually an entire month, and deal with
1. Environmental/situational awareness.
(Many people think they are being "environmentally" aware, but make huge mistakes if not able to put those theories to the test in a simulated environment)

2. De-escalation stances, stratetgies, and semantics.
(most men on men fights start when the aggressor closes in on his victim's space, gets in his face, etc. De-escalation stances, word choice, set ups for first strike combos, etc. are a major factor of real life assaults (I have personally used them in real life) that many do not address in the martial arts world.

3. Progressive contact training where the student tests his material in progressively fuller contact situations until at the end of the program he will perform against a fully resistant opponent. (women too)

4. Training in the four ranges of fighting. Kicking, boxing, clinching, and groundfighting. And how to flow from one to the other.

5. Knife reality, grappling when a weapon is pulled, knife on knife fighting, knife vs. empty hand fighting, etc.
(women too...especially...since a good number of rapes and sexual assaults are done with a blade as a submission weapon.)

6. Adrenaline management (progressive of course, not blindfolding people and throwing them into a room on their first class! :D ) However, scenario and situational training can be progressively increased so when it is finally done full contact, the student (man or woman) will have to keep their head from a cussing, angry, physically pushing, throwing, intimidating assailant.


Anyway, hope that helps. :)

Ryu

[Ryu]

Originally posted by truewrestler
From what I've heard, hiring Ryu to do the self-defense class would be the best idea :D


LOL! Well that warms my heart more than a "Bruce Lee sucks" thread. :D

[pvwingchun]

2. De-escalation stances, stratetgies, and semantics.
I forgot this one.

[Marky]

Agression is the most important attribute for successful self-defense. For the inexperienced, most bad habits/attributes can be negated by pure feral rage.

[red5angel]

Verbal Judo is obviously a must. Ryu, I don't think the intent was to throw them in their first day and see what happens. I wouldn't, but bringing a little "reality" to light for these people so they don't mistake a little self defense training for phat kungfu skeewz. I don't think it is a bad idea at all to set up an environment that effectively simulates the basic problems involved in an assault.
My favorite thing to do with people who come to me for self defense questions (usually, where can I go to get a good self defense class?) to shw why I think self defense classes are useless , is to work for a few minutes on a technique, usually a popular one fr self defense classes. then I show them and epxlain to them why all that time would have been wasted. It's usually pretty effective.
Let's put it this way, if you walk into a self defense class, and can't handle a simulation, you might as well walk away and not waste your time.

[rogue]

I've come to doubt that you can really teach someone general self defense in a specific period of time. Maybe you can teach someone a very small part of self defense in a short period but they're still not covered. There's always something to consider, something else to train. Something I think that has to be realized is that self defense is not something you learn, it's a lifestyle.


1. Environmental/situational awareness.
(Many people think they are being "environmentally" aware, but make huge mistakes if not able to put those theories to the test in a simulated environment) Ryu, do you ever take them on field trips? While in NY I had one sensei that took us to the campus of a local community college to play "muggers and victims". Down here a friend of mine taught me a lot about awareness just by walking around town and having me pick spots that I would use to ambush someone if I was the badguy, kind of like counter sniper training. This is good practice even around the house and neighborhood. We'd also hang out in various kind of bars and people watch.

[Laughing Cow]

R5A.

You need to include "in-home" self defense scenarios.

Fighting/defending when attacked at home can happen in a variety of places:
1.) Sleeping at home.
2.) Sitting on the toilet with your pants round your ankles.
3.) While taking a bath/shower.
etc.

IMO, most SD-courses are crap as they concentrate on street muggings and similar scenarios only.

Any good Attacker will wait till you are in a position where you most likely will not be able to fight.

How many really do teach you to defend yourself from within a car, sitting in a chair and so on.

Using everyday household goods as replacements to Peppeprspray and similar.

Plus, not enough cover the psychological aspects.

What I see mostly are courses designed to boost your confidence and allow you to take a few punches and kicks against a totally unrealistic opponent.
Leaving you with a false sense of security which leads often to exactly the scenarios that you should avoid.

Cheers.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Any good Attacker will wait till you are in a position where you most likely will not be able to fight."

Ive gotten soap in my eyes while washing my hair countless times, cause I thought I heard the door.
hehehee

You could also work ear pulls, cover the womens faces with a pillow (not on the first day of course).

How long do you plan on making this course? 1 week? 2? 6?

[rogue]

Excellent point LC. Most courses teach people what they fear the most not what is the most likely bad thing to happen to them.

[SifuAbel]

Good points all. Ryu is my role model. :D

although.......,"4. Training in the four ranges of fighting. Kicking, boxing, clinching, and groundfighting. And how to flow from one to the other."

.......To me this would constitute being in an actual MA class.

And, even though I'm about to teach such a class, I also think that a self defense course that does not follow into regular training is a waste of time. Why? Timing. Said person in a self defense course might be able to do something right after completeing the course, but what happens 6 months to a year down the line? By then its all a long distant memory. Then its "oh my god, I can't remember what the teacher said last year."

I usually try to get those people involved one way or another in an actual class for regular training.

[Jook Lum]

Hello everyone!I think everyone has outlined good points to base a self defense class upon,so i will give my opinion many of the self defense classes out there.Instead of saying how most of them give people a feeling of being empowered and confident in not being a victim-I say bulls**t,most of them blow smoke up your butt while you pay them for it. Many of them are called rape prevention classes and are all women classes(except for the poor guy who wears the padded suit) usually taught by some woman who got her black belt in two years.It usually turns into a "I hate men"conference where the teacher has the women scream NO and kick the guy in the balls. Then the women go home feeling like they can take control of any situation,until someone grabs them one dark night (or attack them in a different way than was covered in the self defense course)and they freeze up.I am not saying all self defense classes are bad,but if you are not going to invest more than 2-3 weeks than you should not bother.I am also not out to put down only womens self defense classes.Most self defense classes are of to short a duration to teach your body to be able to realisticly react to an attack.Also most people dont work on the techniques they learn at these classes after they have finished the classes.

[Leimeng]

~ Being the redneck type that I am, I must say that a good SD course is lifelong pursuit. It is called hardcore martial arts training!
~ After about a year or so, (less time if the person has common sense), they should be trained on guns. They need to know what the limitations are of trying to use one in a self defense situation.
~ If the person is not willing to put in the effort or has some anti-gun neo-facist leanings about hurting someone then wish them luck and reccomend they find another place to study. I know it sounds cruel but that is life. Just make sure you pray for them as they leave.
~ Hope that helps or hinders whatever you are thinking about.

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue