View Full Version : OT: Aug 7 & 8; troll food!

Mr Punch
08-07-2003, 08:02 AM
Hey kids. Letfs see if we can keep this simple for you!

Today I deleted a thread because it was full of irrelevant nonsense from people who seemed to miss a very simple point. It started like this:

Please take a moment to remember the 80 000+ civilians who died on this day 1945 in Hiroshima, Japan.


First, in answer to this:

So, did you: make a similar post on Dec 7 (Pearl)
make a post on the day Japan bombed shanghai
make a post on the day Japan forced Canadians and
British on the Baatan Death March
make a post on the day Japan invaded Hong kong
It would have been far more better to have made a post on Rememberance day (veterans day) for all those who fell in the war(s)...on both sides, both combatants and non-combatants. That is what most vets do...LEST WE FORGET...SO WE DO NOT REPEAT IT AGAIN.
I always remember Remembrance Day and mark it accordingly. I didnft make a post on Remembrance Day: somebody else did. If they hadnft, I would have done. However, yesterday was not November 11. Nor was it May 8. Etc! It was August 6c LEST WE FORGETc SO WE DO NOT REPEAT IT AGAIN.

There is not a day in the year when some human atrocity did not take place. Perpetrated by the British, the Japanese, the US, the French, the Portuguesec human atrocity. You may want to argue with the word atrocity, as you may believe Hiroshima was justified: fine, call it a tragedy, a disaster, hell, an act of justice if you like; but I was asking you to keep that off my thread which I started as a mark of respect to the 80000+ civilians who died.

I do not remember all of these days of horror. Some stand out for me. Some do not. Yesterday is one that does. So I asked people of like mind if they would remember. No comments were even necessary on the thread, which is why I didnft say gplease donft bring bigoted or political **** onto this threadh!!! I just hoped that we could be adult about this and respect some people's desire to express condolence.

So by the same token:
When do we get to have a moment of rememberance for the Jews? Or how about the muslims during the crusades? Africans who died on the slave boats?When you or somebody else writes a thread for one, or when one is a national holiday, or when one draws your attention to it in any number of ways. Not necessarily on Aug 6.

These quotes sum up my reasons for the thread quite well:

erc me!
Thank you for your opinion. And thank you for giving your RIP message.

I am not making any political point. I am asking for remembrance for a sad event.

I am not blaming anyone. I am asking for remembrance for a sad event.

I agree we should talk about both sides of the coin. Just not on this thread. On this thread

I am asking for remembrance for a sad event.

War is war. No reason not to reflect afterwards for those that died on both sides. Yes, Japan was expanding. So has Europe, so has the U.S.

Atomic bombs were dropped on two civilian cities. These folks just wanted to get up, go to work, east, **** and sleep just like you and me -- and the inocent folks in the Twin Towers. Has nothing to do with the few decision makers.

one person at a time, red5. let's not ignore those who are pointed out just because some others weren't. rather, if we're not remembering, now is a good time to start.

In New York there are days set a side for all of those. It's a shame that asking for something as easy to ablige as a moment of silence, or just a quite head nod out of respect, is met with such resistance ...

i wish some of the folks posting here would understand the original intent of this thread. it's not to say the bombs were right or wrong, or that other deaths in history were any less notable.

it was simply to acknowledge the fact thattens of thousands of people died on this day decades back, and to pay respects to them.

taking that to mean dishonor to anyone else not mentioned, or as a claim of rightness of decision, is your own fault. those who died in hiroshima and nagasaki were no less or more important than anyone else. the method or reason in which they did nor the deaths of anyone else doesn't change the fact that those people died, and that's all that this thread was addressing. The colored addition is mine.

Now, Ifll come to some specific points briefly, as this thread will no doubt become flame fuel and troll fodder.

chen zhen
08-07-2003, 08:09 AM
"Here, trolly trolly trolly..."

Mr Punch
08-07-2003, 08:11 AM
OK, now, **** the respect thing, and let’s get to some trad KFO dweeb mud-slinging!

tnwt Esorry mate forgot your handle
Everytime I think of the 80,000+ these 369,366 drops in the bucket come to mind also..........



Thanks for bringing that up and getting it off your chest early in the thread.

RIP to them too.

Just make sure you do think of them sometimes. And today is a good day to do it.

Mat,I commend you for your post but to be honest God just don't make a day long enough for me to get to them after I think of what led up to their fate,10 million+ in China alone not to mention
other countries,sadly I think we're doomed to see it happen again if we can't talk about both sides of the coin.
Yep, we need to talk about both sides of the coin. More importantly, the Japanese people need to talk about both sides of the coin. They know Nanking as a date in a textbook, not factual sequence of events. But to be fair, most of them don’t give a second thought to Hiroshima either. I was asking you to remember if you wanted to. Of course, Nanking was disgusting, as was Bataan (where one of my grandmother’s brothers was killed) as was Dresden, Coventry, the firebombing of Tokyo, Auschwitz etc. War is terrible. No prizes for that one!
However, Truman’s decision to use the A-bomb on the (OK, some munitions factories, some Nanking vets no doubt, but mostly) civilians of Hiroshima had no relationship to Nanking, according to memoirs and the like from the time.

Mr Punch
08-07-2003, 08:13 AM
Yes, and lets mourn then thousands of American boys that would have died painful, bloody deaths trying to take over the tyrant-infested island.Irrelevant. Didn't ****ing happen mate. Wasn't discussing the alternatives of condoning/condemning: was asking for remembrance.

chen zhen
08-07-2003, 08:14 AM
However, Truman’s decision to use the A-bomb on the (OK, some munitions factories, some Nanking vets no doubt, but mostly) civilians of Hiroshima had no relationship to Nanking, according to memoirs and the like from the time.

As had the terror-bombing of german civilians nothing to do with the KZ bizznizz.

Mr Punch
08-07-2003, 08:21 AM
Something that must be kept in mind...war is hell and a precious price is always paid. Japan started the war. To this day they have not apologized in a formal manner. The school curriculum does not even address their part in the war..the atrocities committed. So your post IMHO is not apropriate.I think it was appropriate to being Aug 6. And onto the rights and wrongs of the A-bomb drop, the Japanese starting the war has no bearing on the fact that Truman decided to bomb a lot of innocent people.

Also, the Japanese civilians were told to fight to the last man, women and child. If the allies had done a typical assault, there would have been many, many, many more deaths on both sides. The total death toll would have been much greater than from the dropping of the two bombs.
The Japanese did not surrender after the conventional bombing, they did not surrender after food and water were not let in, they did not surrender after the first bomb was dropped. Only after the second bomb was dropped did they surrender. To think they would have surrendered after dropping the bomb on a island or the sea is not realistic when concerning the above facts. In fact Trueman did consider doing just that and given the facts decided against it.True. But irrelevant considering that Truman ignored the advice of his military men, and went on the advice of a couple of engineers. McArthur didnft want to drop it, he wanted to offer the Japanese surrender on the proviso that the Emperor (their God donft forget) could go free. He knew, as did anyone close to the Japanese that there was no way they were going to stop without this condition. Truman had also been advised of this, but chose to ignore it, in effect to push for continued hostilities and the inevitability of the drop.

He was given the 'facts' and ignored them.

Oops... gotta go, got a train to catch... I'll be back tomorrow to slay more trolls... er, have a reasoned debate!!!:D :p ;)

chen zhen
08-07-2003, 08:25 AM
er, have a reasoned debate!!!:D:p;)

Never gonna happen, cuzz.

08-07-2003, 08:31 AM
ripitty ripitty ripperoooo!!!!:p

chen zhen
08-07-2003, 08:58 AM
Now the first troll arrived..

ok, it's just of the crazy kind, not harmful.;)

08-07-2003, 09:03 AM
"it's just of the crazy kind,"

Interesting comment so close to your avatar...