Sparring

[Shaolin-Do]

Just curious, but do any of you Xing Yi, Ba Gua, or Taiji practitioners spar? I mean strap on gloves and foot gear and head gear and go at it?
Not trolling, just curious.

[QuaiJohnCain]

Yes, absolutely. How else can one learn to apply the movements?

[jun_erh]

there's alot of stuff about it throughout IMA forum here

[count]

We don't play sissy games with gloves. Nothing but barehand, steel toed, iron crotch, combat for us. If you need a cup, you've got no business fighting in the first place. :cool:

Why in the world would you think otherwise?:confused: Now a discussion of the way to get off the circle and in the ring might be constuctive. :o ;)

[taijiquan_student]

Yeah, we spar. In terms of gear we usually just use a mouthguard, though my teacher often wears gloves. I know gloves are designed to protect YOU, but it still dulls the impact a little. When we go all out, we all put on open hand gloves and headgear (without face-cage).

[taijiquan_student]

Oh--and about your original question...footgear? you must be joking.

[count]

Footgear:D

[taijiquan_student]

:D

[Laughing Cow]

Yes, we do spar.
But as mentioned above no or nearly no gear, also no mats.
Nice wooden floor awaits the Body. :D

Sparring hands(San Shou) is seperate from Push hands(Tui shou).

Cheers.

[batesy]

We work up from push hands to sparring. For instance we might start by pushing hands and then work through to a take-down and a ground finish. When we started it was just push hands, then slowly more ballistic techniques were introduced.

[Joseph_alb]

Same here Count. No protection gear at all. No matter how hard the blow in sparring practice no one's gonna die.

[count]

When training for comp's we train full gear like we will be fighting. Harder than people think to carry the full load, look out from head gear, take off shoes etc. More often though, sparring with no gear and frequently on concrete.

Welcome here Joseph, are you friends with Fillipe and Xeb's?

[Joseph_alb]

I practice with the guy. Felipe that is.
The comment about us not dying while applying power to techniques is our Sifu's way of saying we should reserve the wuss inside of us for some other activity, not Xingyi.

:)

[count]

Originally posted by Joseph_alb
I practice with the guy. Felipe that is.
The comment about us not dying while applying power to techniques is our Sifu's way of saying we should reserve the wuss inside of us for some other activity, not Xingyi.

:)
Funny! What are some of your "wussy" hobbies? J/K just kidding.

[Joseph_alb]

Hey, there's a wuss in all of us. ;)

[Ray Pina]

I don't understand how you guys can be fighting with Hsing-I and no gear ... You guys are delivering full powered Cannon Fists to the jaw and ribs? Smashing fists to the collar bone and neck?

No gear?

[count]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
I don't understand how you guys can be fighting with Hsing-I and no gear ... You guys are delivering full powered Cannon Fists to the jaw and ribs? Smashing fists to the collar bone and neck?

No gear?
If you have the skill to deliver that kind of power, "internal power", than you should also have the skill to take a hit and deal with it. Besides, most protective gear is designed so you don't hurt your opponent and not to protect you. In fact, a chest protector won't do a thing against a solid kick to the ribs except keep you from completly closing the door. ;)

[Ray Pina]

You're a bigger man than me!:)

I don't know about my internal power, but I can give and take a good shot. But when I go out to play, let's say the tournament in Sept., I know I can't go out and play that way multiple times a week with no head gear. I can roll with a punch, but I'd be thinking it would be hard to find a date with my nostrils up against my earlobe and no teath.

Personally, I don't like chest guards, but gloves and head gear and my friends.

Here's a good question: What do you guys do for a living. I show up to work every now and then with a black eye (wrist splint now) but it's cool because I'm a writer, behind the scenes except for occasional travel interviews.

No head gear I'm sure equals black eyes, busted noses, ect. How do you guys manage?

ray

[count]

Ha, taller yes, but you got me by about 80 pounds. :) If you read my ammendment about training for comps, you'll get a better idea about where I am coming from. As far as work, I work at home in programming and design so it doesn't matter what I look like. I'm already married so dates are not really an issue. And I'm really getting too old for the **** that comes from tournaments. ;)

[Ray Pina]

I hear ya. I'm doing the tournament thing now (probbaly for like another year) just because there's been such a change in my technique and I like to match up with strangers to test. I have to say I learn a lot each time.

I go back and forth. Somedays I'm done with the whole, Got to go out and fight, and am completely content and just want to walk. Otherdays I get all fired up and like to cross hands. I guess that's what being 29 is all about.

I'm weighing in at about 200lbs right now. Would like to drop down to 190... feeling good though minus this stupid wrist injury.

Peace
Ray

[shaolinboxer]

I am studying to be a physical education teacher, so injury for me is really a problem.

Sparring should be a requirement is for the young, me thinks. It helps build confidence among other valuable skills. But when we start to get older, and the tears don't heal so well, then it's a mattter of taste. If you love it and have a knack for it, you can keep up with it. I always felt like sparring was something I did because I had to.

I sparred all of the tougher fighters at the school I'm at now, and had no problems....after that I decided to hizzell with it. The intense amount of energy that must be spent on sincere sparring, for me, can be spent in other ways that are more fulfilling.

[Ray Pina]

Yea, I know. It's just I'm not where I wan to be yet martially. This wrist is a recurring injury. I vowed to take it easy but chi saued with a friend last night and tweaked it further. This time I really mean it.


In actuality I enjoy mixing it up with folks, it's a great way to get to know yourself, your mind. Funny, a couple years ago I was so willing to fight anyone. Now I'm much better, but more reserved. I think the more you know the more dangerous you see combat could be.

[Walter Joyce]

Young men fight for glory, old men fight for survival.

[shaolinboxer]

That's interesting, EF. Yes that's true, you do start to see the danger of combat. Even partner drills are dangerous :).

These days I focus my training in about 6 areas. One is chi training...simple exercises to develop relaxtion and intense, but not necessarily intimidating, presence. Lots of sitting around and breathing or slicing the air :). another is partnered technique drill, exhanging roles of attacker and defender. The third is free style techinques with one or more partners...they execute attacking techniques and I respond trying to go through my whole vocabulary. Four, very intense multiple attacks. the goal of this is to throw one attacker into another and control the whole floor by evasion and timing throws. Or, if you are the attacker, to not get hurt and keep moving.
Five, I use weapons training as a form of conditioning. And lastly I do paired weapons sets to develop rhythm. As you progress in these sets, they seems to transform from dancing to dueling.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Full-on sparring is about control.. to trap someone's hands and only tap them with enough power to demonstrate the potential damage, yet not seriously injure them is appropriate.. to trap a training partner and unload full-power is, in my opinion, dishonorable.. i know that if i attacked someone's thigh/sciatic with a full-power shin kick like i train on the heavy MT bag i can put them out of commission for weeks.. i see no reason to cause such harm when good control gets the message across and we can continue to train.. Even in a real-life situation, it is wise to judge your response appropriately, if the situation can be controlled with less than crippling power, honor suggests that we do so.. likewise, if the situation demands serious action, then.. "better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six"... A good conditioning program will hone your abilities and weapons appropriately, i don't see a good reason to prove their usefulness at the expense of another student.. exercising proper control, we can see the usefulness without losing training partners...

Be well...

[Ray Pina]

Absolutely! I always restrain myself on THAT blow, the one they can do nothing about. But I like to keep it live up to that point, the entering and controlling faze -- otherwise it can turn into a "I had you" .... "No you didn't" type of thing. Live opening moves, controled kicks.

The thing that is a pain in the a$$ though, is playing with sore sports. I've eaten more than a few elbows after holding a strike only to have the other guy roll an elbow free as I was withdrawing ... and they get all proud of themself to boot.

My master still said it's my fault though ... and he's right. Now I'm learning to maintain control even if holding that strike. I'll use an elbow to keep them out and just press the fist into them ... a, "Don't you see I have you fool" gesture.

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

Full-on sparring is about control.. to trap someone's hands and only tap them with enough power to demonstrate the potential damage, yet not seriously injure them is appropriate..


Agreed. Although I'd change the word 'tap' for 'hit'...I like the sound of it better :)

[shaolinboxer]

That's point sparring, isn't it? Just tapping someone? It is an effective learning tool, but it is not the same as full contact sparring. The danger level is much higher in FCS, which changes the physiological and psychological conditions affecting your actions.

[Ray Pina]

Now the no gear is making sense. It's not the straight leads that I mind eating here and there to test entry skills, I was just wondering how guys are survining being trapped and receiving a big bear-powerd Pow Kuen to the head ... with no gear! Lot's of times its the stupid elbow crashing it's way in on the bicep that kills ... even with pads!

Funny how some people are drawn to this type of stuff, huh?


PS

I think what was stated above by the other guys is diff from point sparring. Point sparring is reaching out with a long leg and someone yelling, "Stop!" ... "Point."

Continuous controlled sparring is about trapping that kick that had low leverage in it because the person's weight was going back and putting them down. Or wedging it to the side and gettting in their face, and seeing if they can then in turn turn you.

I think point sparring is counter productive. In some cases even OVER controlled sparring, because it can subconciously enforce pulling strikes. Some things just can't be tested. A lot of our arm breaks are not the type you keep adding pressure until it pops, it's about coming in and using short power and your body to snap it all at once, and always against the body's natural mechanics. You can train position, getting into it, and slowly applying pressure, but you can't just do it to someone.

I know this approaches the Kung Fu, Too deadly to practice area. Don't worry, there's plenty other of techniques to use when playing.

[shaolinboxer]

I see, so we're not talking about point sparring. I understand the theory here, I just think it is not really correct to call pulled sparring "full contact". Controled sparring perhaps?

I beleive the tern "full contact" should be reserved for those matches where serious concussive impact is imminent. In controlled sparring you trust your partner to pull punches. In full contact sparring, you compete with them and expect them only to obey the basic rules, not pull punches.

Yes? No?

[Ray Pina]

I control spar with classmates, though we do this very rarely. And I FCS with fellow martial art friends twice a week but we use full gear: caged head gear, 10 oz boxing gloves, forearm pads and elbow pads. A couple of guys like to wear chest guards. We do no kicking also and all strikes are from the waist up ... head is open and it's full go!

Like I said though, if I turned my opponant, or controlled him beyond a doubt, I just push the strike into them for them to know that there is a hole, it has been filled, and their is leverage behind it.

But honestly, there's a lot of banging around going on, and those SUPER clean and clear shots don't happen as often as I would like. Against the SHotokon guy, all the time. Against the boxer, I usually taist a tight right cross when taking the inside position, but I'll get it! The Hung Gar guy gets frustrated a lot and every once in a while we have a BJJ guy who wants to start on the ground. We all like each other and egos are kept in check by "ooohhhhs" and snickers at displays of poor sportsmanships, such as late hits.

[bobojoe02]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Just curious, but do any of you Xing Yi, Ba Gua, or Taiji practitioners spar? I mean strap on gloves and foot gear and head gear and go at it?
Not trolling, just curious.

Not trolling just insulting, daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? Man, you are one shaolin do-do. Ask that question to me in person or ask my teachers in Bejing. Wait until they see this girly comment. Masturbation by shaolin do-do again. LMAO, Spar? Spar with
equipment? B a ha ha ha ha ha aha ah hah haaaaaaaaa, funny really funny.

[greendragon]

wrap me with foam and beat me
kick my head till i see double
the referee once tried to cheat me
he didn't see my chi filled bubble
protective gear on foot and willow
why not just hit me with a pillow ?
it makes me feel like a hard bad man
until a hippy knocks me on my can