Kung Fu - Video Clips from the recent Pride show [Archive]

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 08:55 AM

Thanks to McRay from the UnderGround Forum at http://www.MMA.tv

RIGHT-CLICK LINKS THEN SAVE

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/mma/crocop-igor.wmv

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/mma/fedor.wmv

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/mma/chuck.wmv

Those were the three posted so far. I will add on if/when others are availalbe.

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 08:59 AM

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/mma/yoshida-tamura.wmv

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 09:25 AM

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/mma/sak-silva.wmv

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 09:36 AM

Crocop vs igor... hehehe....
Crocop is a f*ckin animal...

Merryprankster

08-12-2003, 10:46 AM

I saw a lot of sloppy fighting and no technique. Further, it's clear these guys have no root and everything they do is "low level."

Some good CMA training would work wonders for these fellows but they probably aren't much interested in it since it takes too long and they don't have the dedication it would require to really develop themselves.

fa_jing

08-12-2003, 10:56 AM

lmao @ content manipulation
:cool:

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 11:06 AM

Yes, it was sloppy.
More or less a street fight, but still great to watch.
Crocop is an animal still... Not a technique using badazz, but a raging badazz none the less...
:)

SevenStar

08-12-2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I saw a lot of sloppy fighting and no technique. Further, it's clear these guys have no root and everything they do is "low level."

Some good CMA training would work wonders for these fellows but they probably aren't much interested in it since it takes too long and they don't have the dedication it would require to really develop themselves.

my sentiments exactly. These guys look like half trained CMA who have reverted to kickboxing due to lack of true skill.

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 11:10 AM

Every fight actually....
Looked like people trying their hardest to hit each other... at best it was very sloppy. I like to watch street fights too tho... hehehe... This was for entertainment value. Not educational purposes. I feel it did its job.

Edit: I believe... yoshida? was the judo practitioner? was the only one who exibited any sort of technique (in his ... 2 takedowns I think?) But his hands were still excessively sloppy.

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 11:10 AM

HA, HA, very funny MP.
You all do know he is trolling.

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 11:12 AM

Im not.
It was sloppy.
Fun to watch tho.
:D

Edit: I still wouldnt want to have anything to do with fighting any of them...
:D

Ridge hand, knife hands are or are not allowed in pride?
Im waiting cause I know someones gonna try and say it was all beatiful... Many of the flurries thrown looked very similar to completely untrained street fighters I have seen...

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 11:16 AM

All the above, except one, were striking wins, why should I complain. :D

So it wasn't pretty, so what.

And silva had an excellent form in his sak knock out. His punches were crisp, pinpoint, and fast.

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 11:18 AM

No it wasnt pretty....

Great to watch tho.
Will order the next on friday too... I like watching people get kicked in the face.
:D

Edit: was expecting explosively irritated argument form mma ers on that I said technique was sloppy.... :D

Was happy that strikers were winning as well... But thats already had enough threads of its own.
:D
(Grapple vs strike)...

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 11:23 AM

Silva's 1,2 was very nice,, his right hit Sak square on the jaw.... hehehe... Sak straightened out like a board and made a real funny azz face....
:D

Suntzu

08-12-2003, 11:49 AM

SWEEEEETTT!!!!

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 11:50 AM

Shaolin-Do, your posts lead me to believe that you are either 1) trolling or 2) wouldn't know good technique if it DPed you in the noggin

:p

Suntzu

08-12-2003, 11:56 AM

:eek: how da phuck did that overhand stun overreem(sp?) like that...:eek: i thot he had a better noggin than that*shrug*.... HAHAHA... Chuck knows Hung Ga...

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 11:58 AM

Suntzu, you have to see the replay... it hit flush

The angle of the video of Cro Cops KO kick to Igor doesn't do it justice. It is the most perfect KO I have ever seen.... right on the jawline :eek:

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 11:59 AM

picture right before or after contact with Igor's jaw:

http://a1140000.futurism.ws/susumu/pride/030810/susumu11.jpg

Suntzu

08-12-2003, 12:01 PM

yeah the angle sucked... and the Cro Cop kick was a beauty... glad i didn't bet money... this tourny is not going the way i thot...

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 12:18 PM

lol...
Watch some of the flurries. I watched the entire tourney... Granted the ko's were well placed, they were all in the midst of angrily swinging about the arms...
Crocops KO kick... yes it was perfectly along the jaw line, not very telegraphed. Was surprised with rampage's ability to avoid the choke, and get out of submissions...

The hitting from your back argument proved quite true too... no one threw a good punch on the ground.

'The angle of the video of Cro Cops KO kick to Igor doesn't do it justice."

They showed several angles for each KO during the PPV of it :D

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 12:29 PM

They showed several angles for each KO during the PPV of it ...and they were oh so sweet :D

fa_jing

08-12-2003, 12:32 PM

Glad to see that things are changing - but why are dudes getting knocked out with one punch? True that a good pro boxer with a couple years of grappling and kicking would do better than most of these guys. At least it appears that way. Freitas / Barrios on Showtime Saturday, now that was a good fight.

< /endtrashtalk>

Edit: or is it that heavier gloves really do decrease KO power?

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 12:48 PM

Its the gloves.

They can close the hand all the way and make it a solid fist. Also they are very lightly padded. Its almost like wearing nothing at all.

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 12:57 PM

I think a big part of it also is that punches can slip in past MMA gloves easier than boxing gloves. Take Chuck's haymaker punch on Overeem for example... it hit him in the temple right past his hand/glove up for defense. If they were wearing boxing gloves Chuck may have made contact with Overeem's glove instead of face.

Sakuraba would have been knocked out regardless of gloves :(

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 12:57 PM

Some of These fights were VERY kung fu.

Silva uses a typical knee lift block followed by two sweet quick punches ala monkey style.

Chuck's first and most decisive blow was the long swing ala choy lay fut or pek kwar.

Crocop used a high kick to the head to finish his fight, I guess you guys have to rewrite your bibles to include high kicks now. :rolleyes:

If he extended a bit more and pivoted abit more he might have torn the other guys head off.

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 12:59 PM

"Sakuraba would have been knocked out regardless of gloves"

Sak underestimated the punch distance and let his gaurd down. His face was wide open for a good hitter.

rubthebuddha

08-12-2003, 01:04 PM

i'm guessing sak was just fuggin tired. not sure how far into the match he got dooked, but his hands looked no different than a boxer's at about round 8.

norther practitioner

08-12-2003, 01:07 PM

the takedown the dude in the gi did looked like nothing.. but it worked... I loved it... nice choke too.:D

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by norther practitioner
the takedown the dude in the gi did looked like nothing.. but it worked... I loved it... nice choke too.:D Some MMA fans think there is something fishhy. Partly because of how quickly he finished the fight on the ground against an experienced fighter but also about what happened after the fight ended. I don't know what to think .... Yoshida stands up, walks around the ring celebrating and then falls down in pain like his leg is broken, ice is taped to his knee and then I believe he walks out. Now it is being reported that his leg *may* be healed for the next round of the tournament. Many MMA fans predicted immediately after the fight that he was faking the injury so he can drop out of the next round of the tournament.

norther practitioner

08-12-2003, 01:30 PM

Yeah, but the likely thing is he tweeked his knee, which can be a crippling pain... that does go away in a few moments, etc.

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 01:31 PM

Nah, I think that choke was legit, sneaky as f*ck, but legit. Figured he was the one that would get choked by the gi...
:D

Sakuraba just got stuck by a beatiful right.... Square on the jaw... Was a stereotypical KO. Was surprised at the lack of takedowns utilized by grapplers in the clinch...

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 01:35 PM

I'm giving Yoshida the benefit of the doubt regarding any fishiness because of his background.

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 01:39 PM

The 2nd time I popped my knee out of socket it hurt like hell for a couple hours... next day hurt still, but was pretty much back to normal within a couple weeks. With 2 or 3 months till his next fight...

old jong

08-12-2003, 01:45 PM

The choke looked like a sleeve choke .Ezechiel maybe?...
Anyway,we can clearly see that striking is getting more and more succes in these events mainly because,strikers are learning how to defend takedowns and subs and,the others are not learning how to defend against a punch. ;)

fa_jing

08-12-2003, 01:45 PM

It seemed like the guy on the ground took his arm out, which would have prevented or made more difficult the choke. Dumb move.

Regarding the Cro cops knockout, looked like he didn't turn the hip over, may have even connected with the instep, sort of a cross between a round kick and crescent kick trajectory. 8 times out of 10 that won't work. Lucky kick.

Man, I've been through it so many times myself, looking back you can see all of the errors. It happens to the bigshots too.

All Igor had to do was raise his right hand to block/absorbe the kick.

in Sak/Silva, Silva leaned forward suddenly with the 1-2. Nice, but all Sak had to do was lean back and push kick the exposed midsection, or duck and pick up Silva.

Just like when you see my loss when I put it up in a few weeks- you'll say "why didn't he block either of those two shots" Only I really know why. Even my opponent probably thinks he just got lucky to take me out so quickly.

LOL :cool:

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 01:51 PM

fa_jing,

1. Cro Cop is a world class kickboxer... whatever he does standing is perfect in me eyes

2. Sakuraba should have ducked :p

ShaolinTiger00

08-12-2003, 01:56 PM

it was an Ezekiel choke, also known as Sode guruma jime.

link (http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/sode-guruma-jime.htm)

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 01:59 PM

Royce's favorite :p

fa_jing

08-12-2003, 03:09 PM

Yes, it looked a bit strange to me but I shouldn't criticize Cro Cop's kick. The most important thing is, he didn't telegraph it - sort of caught Igor expecting a punch. Plus it was solid. So he may train it somehow this way.

Judging by Cro Cop's physique, it looks like he does plenty of dynamic tension, breathing exercises and horse stance. Those muscles don't come from nowhere, but it can't be from weights or he'd be real slow. I bet he does forms with those ring thingies, too. I wonder what kind of Qi Gong he practices? Do you think he lifted his anus during his round kick? I'll have to watch the clip again to see if I can pick out any lifting around the butt area. A wedgie would be a sure sign.

Mr Punch

08-12-2003, 03:26 PM

Can't get the WMVs... dunno why, it's just connecting me to a load of garbled machine code...

anyway, of course they were lucky... who'd expect anythign else from an untrained slam-fest like Pride.

red5angel

08-12-2003, 03:42 PM

looks like strikers have no more excuses ;)

what the hell was going on in the tamura match? Was he choking him?

LEGEND

08-12-2003, 04:03 PM

The problem with YOSHIDA is not the way he fought...it's the way his opponents has fought thus far! Don Frye in a GI??? Tamura not striking alot and allowing a clinch???

SifuAbel

08-12-2003, 04:24 PM

"Can't get the WMVs... dunno why, it's just connecting me to a load of garbled machine code..."

save the page then open in windows media player.

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by red5angel
looks like strikers have no more excuses ;)

what the hell was going on in the tamura match? Was he choking him? Yes

Ikken Hisatsu

08-12-2003, 05:29 PM

hehe, some of that stuff was real sloppy. some good hits though, that overhand hook by mr mohawk was a stunner. the fight with the gi dude was pretty weak I thought, his punches were pathetic and the other guy didnt seem to be doing anything. if a judo black belt grabbed me and was obviously about to throw me I would at least attempt to get out of it.

Oh and Cro cops kick was pretty awesome.

TjD

08-12-2003, 06:19 PM

i don't see what everyones problem was with the guy in the gi, he seemed pretty solid to me. and actually i thought he had rather good structure.

silva's double punch KO looked a whole lot like WC punches to me. they did have a bit of structure and line-up to them as well - especially the second one.

truewrestler

08-12-2003, 06:52 PM

don't see what everyones problem was with the guy in the gi, he seemed pretty solid to me. and actually i thought he had rather good structure. correct

silva's double punch KO looked a whole lot like WC punches to me. they did have a bit of structure and line-up to them as well - especially the second one. :rolleyes:

TjD

08-12-2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by truewrestler
:rolleyes:

hey, if you look at it carefully, those be vertical fists :)

**EDIT**
not to mention, right down the center :D

old jong

08-12-2003, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
if a judo black belt grabbed me and was obviously about to throw me I would at least attempt to get out of it

This judo black belt is a olympic gold medalist . There is very little to be done "to get out of it"...He is trowing guys the same level as he is all the times.
He is criticised a lot by many in the MMA circles because he won over Royce Gracie and Don Frye. I wonder why since BJJ came from Judo. Why is it so bad to lose to a judoka?...Bizarre...

Laughing Cow

08-12-2003, 07:51 PM

OJ.

Because BJJ is superior to TMA, Judo and it's parent art Ju-Jitsu are TMA.
:D

Never mind me, keep going. ;)

Shaolin-Do

08-12-2003, 08:10 PM

No no...
Because I am superior to laughing cow, because the cheese is NOT where its at, but in fact how its there.

:confused:

:)

Judo guy... Had better looking technique than anyone else, except for the... err... punches.
:)

SifuAbel

08-13-2003, 12:21 AM

"silva's double punch KO looked a whole lot like WC punches to me. they did have a bit of structure and line-up to them as well - especially the second one."

I :rolleyes: also .

WC isn't the only system in the world that uses the centerine. Plus, he wasn't square shouldered with sak.

It was definatly longfist. ;) :D :p

Merryprankster

08-13-2003, 02:23 AM

LOL at the sloppy technique comments!

More grappling from the "grapplers." Don't trade with a striker!

Amazing what happens when you learn to defend a takedown properly. Your other tools start to matter.

quiet man

08-13-2003, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by fa_jing
Regarding the Cro cops knockout, looked like he didn't turn the hip over, may have even connected with the instep, sort of a cross between a round kick and crescent kick trajectory. 8 times out of 10 that won't work. Lucky kick.

Man, I've been through it so many times myself, looking back you can see all of the errors. It happens to the bigshots too.

All Igor had to do was raise his right hand to block/absorbe the kick.

Hardly. Roundhouse kick (especially the left one) is probably his most powerful weapon. He says it like this: "With my right, I send you to hospital only, but with my left, I send you to graveyard".

Mirko works on his roundhouse every day, kicking the bag thousands of times (literally) with each leg. On his wedding day, he trained in the morning and got married in the afternoon. His discipline is flawless, his dedication unwavering. I'm not really a fan of his nor of such events (I strongly dislike when people beat each other for money), but the truth stands: Mirko wants to become a world champion in november, and he works on that goal 24/7.

Fedor shouldn't be afraid. He should be VERY afraid. :D

truewrestler

08-13-2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by old jong

This judo black belt is a olympic gold medalist . There is very little to be done "to get out of it"...He is trowing guys the same level as he is all the times.
He is criticised a lot by many in the MMA circles because he won over Royce Gracie and Don Frye. I wonder why since BJJ came from Judo. Why is it so bad to lose to a judoka?...Bizarre... The negativity definitely started with the premature stoppage of his grappling match with Royce. For those that don't know, Yoshida had Royce in a sleeve choke that was at least partially block according to the video. I think according to Royce the choke was ineffective and he was relaxing since he was stuck in the position ...which may have brought about Yoshida's comment to the ref. From what I could see it looked like Yoshida couldn't get the choke across the throat so he dug his nuckles(fist) into the side of Royce's throat. (That would definitely tap me out just from pain...but I ain't Royce).

After about 10-15 seconds Yoshida said something to the ref (i think it was confirmed as something to the affect of Royce being unconscious) and the ref stopped the fight. Royce got up immediately and protested, obviously not unconscious. What might have happened if the match had continued we shall never know. 30 more seconds and Royce could have been unconscious in the ring or completely out of the hold... he was definitely in a bad position.

Yoshida would probably be widely accepted by American fans in my opinion if not for the way that first match ended. Oh well... I just want to see him fight again :D I wonder if he is going to be matched up with Liddell, Rampage or Silva in his next fight of the tournament :eek:

ShaolinTiger00

08-13-2003, 06:45 AM

Judo and it's parent art Ju-Jitsu are TMA.

Judo is not a TMA. Kano made the seperation very clear. Jujutsu was.

post wwII Judo is a now a combat sport.

truewrestler

08-13-2003, 06:49 AM

hey ST, how would you like the next round of the tournament to be setup?

Someone posted on the UG that Liddell was promised Silva in the next round. Rampage versus Yoshida would be very interesting.

LeeCasebolt

08-13-2003, 07:46 AM

Yoshida would probably be widely accepted by American fans in my opinion if not for the way that first match ended.

I disagree. IMO, the combination of anti- foreigner bias inherent in a large segment of the population (globally, not just the US), and the anti-judo bias of the BJJ wannabe crowd that makes up a significant portion of the US MMA fanbase would work against him. I don't think a different ending to Royce/Yoshida would change Yoshida's popularity here at all - losing to Royce means every victory is met with "Yeah, but Royce choked him out!"; beating Royce cleanly means that every victory is met with Rickson's name.

I'm a big MMA fan, and have been since the beginning, but most MMA fans are morons. Of course, most people are morons, so you have to expect that...

ShaolinTiger00

08-13-2003, 08:03 AM

TW,

I'd love to see Silva skull**** Liddel. Rampage vs. Yoshida might prove to be entertaining.

Silva takes it all... :)

Shaolin-Do

08-13-2003, 08:05 AM

Gotta say Im with ST on that one... my moneys on silva.
Id like to see silva and crocop fight...
:D

Yoshida vs rampage would be good too, but my $$ is on rampage in the long run...
:)

truewrestler

08-13-2003, 08:21 AM

LeeCasebolt, you make some great points.

I don't think him being Japanese is really the issue... seeing as how Sakuraba and other Japanese fighters are popular with American MMA fans. I agree that there is definitely negativity towards Judo... and overall is more likely the reason for negativity towards Yoshida. I guess I was sugar coating it.

ST, $5 on Liddell :)

truewrestler

08-13-2003, 08:26 AM

"Id like to see silva and crocop fight..."

They did under "Pride vs K-1" rules (just modified Pride rules)... to a draw.

Description and Pictures: http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/pride20/pride20_08.htm

Video Clip: http://216.40.244.4/pride/pride20/pride20_crocop_vs_silva.zip

ShaolinTiger00

08-13-2003, 08:26 AM

Silva and CroCop have fought @ Pride 20. it was ruled a draw.

TW, $5 !!

Suntzu

08-13-2003, 08:59 AM

Deeeaaaaammmmmnnnnnn!!! Silva ate ALL of that kick... better him than me...:eek:

FatherDog

08-13-2003, 09:36 AM

Personally, I feel that whoever gets matched up with Yoshida first round is a good bet to win the tournament.

All three of the other remaining fighters have good takedown defense and excellent striking skills. Yoshida is a great judoka, but his striking is very weak, and his striking defense similarly so. I don't see him putting up a significant challenge to Silva, Liddel, or Rampage, whereas a fight between any two of those will undoubtedly inflict a good amount of damage on the winner.

fa_jing

08-13-2003, 10:43 AM

<beginMeaninglessDebate>
I second TjD's comment. The first thing I thought when I saw Silva knock out Sak, was, wow, those look just like WC Chum Choie centerline punches. They were delivered with a very similar rythym and structure. However, he was leaning forward more than most WC people do. I actually think it's quite effective and transfers the energy very well, my sifu advocates it, but most WC people don't do that. Secondly, I ran that clip a bunch of times and I don't believe that the second punch was a vertical fist, hard to tell but it looked angled. Contrary to SifuAbel's remark, I don't think most WC people square up while punching and entering, rather they turn the shoulders some so that the punches have both turning and stepping power. So in that respect, the punches were quite similar to WC punches.

< / endMeaninglessDebate>

and you know what else:

:D :p :cool: :rolleyes: :eek: :confused:

I can use smilies too!

red5angel

08-13-2003, 10:51 AM

Well I just wen back and watched the silva video. I don't think you can read too muc into it. I think the punches you guys are talking to resemble some WC stuff but loosely. More likely he was just throwing some punches in general. If you wanted to get into a debate about it being WC, it's not, the WC structure isn't there. however, regardless of what it is it works for him.