BSL's Five Tigers Catch the Lamb Staff

[Ravenshaw]

"Five Tigers Catch the Lamb Staff" is the name of Bak Sil Lum's advanced staff form. I have a few questions that I hope our resident BSL historians can answer:
-What is the form's origin?
-Why is there a second solo staff form when there is already the Nine Provnce Eyebrow-Height Staff and a staff sparring form?
-What in particular is the form meant to develop in terms of fighting and conditioning?

If any of you have information on this set, it would be very much appreciated.

P.S.
Yes, I do know the lyrics have been posted. But they didn't answer my questions.

[NorthernShaolin]

Most of the traditional weapon sets today are very old and it is difficult to really trace their origin. Obviously weapon sets come and go with time. For example long spears that are greater than 12 feet are no longer widely practice and their techniques are most likely going to be non existance in a few generations. Another example is the art of long weapon fighting on horse back. No one practices this at all. (One old manual, The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts of Ancient Korea, by Muye Dobo Tongji, 2000, ISBN 1-880336-53-7 AND 1-880336-48-0, give us insight on what appears to be the only document left of how the Chinese fought on horseback.

Most styles did not have weapons that they can call their own so many sifus of the past borrowed and adopted various weapons into their curriculum. Some sifus have added their influence into the adpoted set to fit into their style. This practice has been going on for hundreds of years and martial historians reconized this fact. This is one reason why many different styles have the same named weapon sets but when one observes the set, it appear to be dis-similar. So in classificating where weapon sets originate, martial historians attempt to write what location, i.e., village, province or region in China, a particular weapon set appears to be practiced by a greatest number of the population.

Specifically to answer your questions:
"Five Tigers Catch the Lamb Staff" is also known as Tiger Striking Sheep Flock Staff or Five Tiger Sheep Flock. This is a double ended skill staff and is found to be prevailed in Hebei Province and in Shichuan Province. Martial historians tend to associate this set with the Northern Shaolin Mi Tsung style because the characteristic of this set match the style. However, this set is also taught in NSL, and in Northern Shaolin Fan Tzu Eagle Claw schools. It is also taught in all the Jing Mo schools. Obviously, not all are done the same but the core of the set is there.

This set is thought to be inspired by the Five Tiger Generals in the Three Kingdom Period because of its wide variation in its attacking techniques. Others say the staff is an analogue of a tiger hunting in a sheep flock.

The second staff set, Nine Province Eyebrow-Height Staff, is a shorter staff and uses different techniques than the Five Tiger staff because of its length. This set is part of the main curriculum of the Northern Shaolin style called Lui Ho Chuan (complete official name is Wei T'o Lui Ho) and was made famous by GGM Wan Li Sheng. This set was intergrated into NSL's curriculum by Kuo Yu Chang's student, Yim Shan Wu. In other words, this set became part of NSL's curriculum within the last 100 years.

The staff sparring set is called Eight Region staff and this set teaches what solo staff sets cannot: distances and timing.

[Ravenshaw]

Thank you for the information, NorthernShaolin.

You mention the form as being native to the Lui Ho Chuan style. Is this the same as Lui He (or Lok Hop in Cantonese)? If this is so, it is not the only Six Harmonies Style set in BSL.

[NorthernShaolin]

Yes it is the same but understand that it is not part of BSL. Lui Ho is a style that is equal to BSL, Cha, and other stand alone northern styles. KYC and WLS were very good friends and traded sets with each other. YSW first teacher before KYC was WSL. KYC encourage YSW to incooperate some of these sets into the BSL curriculum. Hence this is why your sifu teaches Lui Ho spearand once long ago your sifu taught Lui Ho fist #1 and saber.

[Day Tong]

NorthernShaolin -

I noticed on your website (which has a lot of great information) you listed the Northern Shaolin Mi Tsung Lo Han curriculum from GGM Yip Yee Ting branch and there are only four forms listed.

Is that the entire forms curriculum for the Northern Shaolin Mi Tsung Lo Han system?

If not, would you mind listing their complete curriculum?

Speaking of the Lok Hop system...are there many instructors who still teach the entire system?

Sorry for so many questions. :-}

[Ravenshaw]

I had known the Six Harmonies sets to be from another system (of the same name). Some students choose to refer to them as "advanced" weapon forms, though, since they are generally taught as supplementary material to advanced students. Sifu Wing Lam no longer teaches the Six Harmonies hand set, but he still does teach the broadsword and spear forms.

As a side note, we (Sifu Lam's advanced students) have been trying to persuade him to teach us the double-headed chain whip set. He told us he'd happily teach the form to us... if we could procure the actual weapons.:p

Since none of us know where to find a double-headed chain whip, that's not happening anytime soon.

[MasterKiller]

See if Jiheng Li will make one for you.

[GeneChing]

Just take two whips and chain them together. That's only two welds - should be no probelm really.

[NorthernShaolin]

Day Tong,

We only list the sets that we are authorized to teach in each of the curriculums. In Mi Tsung Lo Han and the other curriculums as well, their curriculum is much larger than what we list. (The real curriculum is about as large as what we have listed in our NSL curriculum) and they have incooperated many of the standard Jing Mo sets into their curriculum. I do not have their complete list of the Mi Tsung Lo Han curriculum. Perhaps if you go to one of their web sites, they may list them.

It is my understanding that very few high level disciples of GGM Yip Yee Ting learn the complete system. There are stories of when GGM Yip passed away and when they were packing away his personal belongings, they discovered many exotic weapons hidden away and many incomplete notes that referred to techinques and sets that were not passed to any of his disciples.

Lui Ho's curriculum is very large. It includes at least three saber sets, two spear sets, Horse Knife, and more. And some rare sets not seen outside of China: Saber vs Saber, halberd, Snake Tongue Sword, Long Spear, etc.

As for instructors who are still teaching Lui Ho style, I believe the style is still very popular in some parts of China. On this fourm, Shaolin Master mention that he knows all ten hand sets of Lui Ho. And someone must have taught him. But you are right, WLS did not like to teach and as a result, not many people are teaching this style today.

Ravenshaw,

Interesting that one would call Lui Ho sets "Advanced". It really only a different flavor of Shaolin. Our sifu taught it as an option.

Double head chain whip...sounds cool.

[ninja]

Lohan? How are you gonna use that?

[NorthernShaolin]

ninja,

You are confusing the name, Lo Han. Lo Han is also a name of a style, not just associated with Shaolin Qi Gong.

[buddhapalm]

Dear NorthernShaolin,
You mention that upon GGM Yip Yee Ting's passing, his students found papers detailing untaught forms. Do you know the names of those forms, or who may know ? Also which were the untaught weapons ?

Shaolin Master,
If you are on this thread. Did you learn Wan Lai Sheng's LiuHeQuan ? Or did you learn from another branch ?

I am very interesting in viewing more LiuHe material.

Cheers all

Buddhapalm

[GeneChing]

That's a bit of a misnomer, Ravenshaw. Wing Lam teaches the BSL broadsword & spear first since we study BSL. The Lok Hop broadsword & spear have only been termed advanced by the students, not really so by Sifu Lam. Like NS's sifu, it is really only taught as an option. Have you asked Sifu Lam these questions you've been posting? I'd be interested in his answers...

[Ravenshaw]

Actually, I asked him a few last Tuesday when we started learning the set. I didn't ask exactly the same questions, but I'll try to answer them with the info he gave me.

The first thing I asked him was "is this set borrowed from another style like the Six Harmonies sets or is it BSL?" He replied that he did not know the precise origin of the set (acknowledging that other systems, like Ying Jow Pai, have versions of it) and that he taught it as if it were BSL (and to him, it is).

The second question "Why is there a second solo staff form when there is already the Nine Province Eyebrow-Height Staff and a staff sparring form?" was answered sort of indirectly, i.e. while he taught the form. I recall his admonishing us that though the staff is a simple weapon, this set contains more advanced techniques and teaches more advanced control of the staff than Nine Province. I learned the staff sparring set for the purpose of demonstrating it at our open house this past June and I learned very quickly the meaning of distance and the importance of timing.

"What in particular is the form meant to develop in terms of fighting and conditioning?" This was my big question. So far, all I really have is that the techniques of fighting and handling the staff are more advanced than those of the Nine Province Staff.

I hope I conveyed his answers accurately. I'm sure I could get more information, but that will have to wait until next week (Sifu Lam dedicates the evenings of every other week to his daughters).

[NorthernShaolin]

buddhapalm,

The information that you are inquiring was originally from an article that I read in the New Martial Mag, HK, 1972. It did not mention what weapons specifically but that the weapons were of exotic nature: weapons that are not the normal main stream in CMA. But the article stated that GGM YYT was very smart and was very capable of inventing new weapons to serve specific purposes. Many were made while he was a Security Chief on convoys no doubt.