Southern Mantis

[Judge Pen]

Hey all,

I profess ignorance to all forms of mantis. Having said that, does anyone here practice Southern Mantis? What are the characteristics that distinguish it from Northern Mantis?

[Dale Dugas]

JudgePen,

I am involved with both Bak Mei Pai and Jook Lum Tong Long Pai. South Mantis is not based on the same material as northern mantis. The footwork is not the same, South Mantis uses more of the shuffle step, circle step and chop step. North Mantis has more of a Nothern Shaolin flavor to it. South Mantis will get close to the opponent, bridge with the arms and then control the situation while hitting the person until they are down and out.

South Mantis people along with the Bak Mei people use the Fung Gai Kuen(Phoenix Eye Fist) rather than the hook hand you see in many of North Mantis' forms.

It has its own Hei Gong, weapons, Shen Gung, and Dit Da which reflect its combat orientation.

Feel free to email me offline as this could start a big ole flame war.

Peace,

Dale Dugas

[BAI HE]

Bak Mei and SPM in Mass? Dale do tell!

[sevenstar29]

That is very interesting I had no idea there was a southern mantis style out there!! that would be realy interesting to see southern mantis.
I study northern 7 star praying manits my sifu has not mentioned anything about a southern type of mantis.... but I'll ask him.:)

[Crimson Phoenix]

Southern mantis is a bad name for the art (specially the mantis part, the southern part is right ehehhehe). What I mean is that though the styles have the typical southern flavor as Dale pointed out, they in no mean ressemble what we are used to with northern mantis. Different feet techniques, different jings, strategies, everything...

SPM is a mean and fascinating art...no show, just fight.

[Golden Arms]

In at least some southern mantis lineages I have heard of, the "mantis" part of the name was just put in there to hide what art the practitioners were really doing, so as to avoid persecution or trouble with the government. That being said..a well done Southern mantis form is mesmerizing..and pretty cool...they have good power generation, and with the proper hand training look like they could do nasty things to your body.

[Sam]

Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai was derived from the movements of the Mantis. Three monks created the style. Sam Dot, Lee Siem, Wang lang. Wang Lang went north. South Mantis does not try to look like a Mantis but contains the essence of it's movements.

[Golden Arms]

Cool..that is why I said SOME lineages. Just so you see what I am talking about..here are some quick examples I pulled up on google.


Southern praying mantis gung fu had its origins during the Ming Dynasty and was taught only to members of Chinas royal family. At the time, the system was known as "Jew Gar" (also known as Chu Gar and Chuka royal family gung fu). With the advent of the cold-blooded Ching Dynasty, the Emperor and his family fled to the Northern Sil Lum Temple to escape certain death at the hands of the Manchurians. But the forces of the Ching followed. Knowing that a revolutionary spirit was being nurtured in the temple, the Ching army burnt the temple to the ground. The royal family escaped to the Southern Sil Lum Temple located in Fukien Province. Knowing that the Ching were looking for Chu Gar practitioners they changed the name of the art to " Praying Mantis", in hopes of tricking the Chings into thinking that the style was the same as the more popular Northern Praying Mantis.

And this one


The Jew (Chu, Chiao, Ju, Choi, Tsoi, Gee in Toishan, Zhu in Mandarin etc., all variations of the same name!) royal family was descendant of the Sung Dynasty by bloodline, and their members were by uncles and cousins related to the Ming Dyansty royal family (2)

The Jew Gar (Royal Family style) was a collection of techniques used by the Ming royal family. Emigrated Monks and rebels worked in the Fujian temple to develop a new style based on those techniques, but following their new concepts (no fancy movements, few forms to be learnt in a three year period, etc.). They created the new style combining the Northern Jew Gar techniques with the Southern Five Animals style. Therefore the new style has a southern flavor, but the remanent from the Chiao Northern family style is the phoenix fist punch, it is used in many northern styles, especially in the military ones (it is considered the hidden or special fist of some of these styles).

This style had at that time three forms and the name was changed to Praying Mantis to hide it from the Manchu spies. It was called mantis hoping to trick the Manchu guards making them think that the style was the same as the more popular Northern Shandong Praying Mantis. If the manchu soldiers knew that they were practicing the Ming royal family style, then they of course would be surely killed!

Later on, the south Shaolin temples where also destroyed and the surviving monks and rebels dispersed again. This original Jew Gar (already known at that time as Praying Mantis) split in three branches.

And this one..


With its upright stances, hand forms and short range powers, it could arguably be said that Southern Mantis bears a greater resemblance to Pak Mei than it does to Northern Mantis - which uses traditional Shaolin low stances, leaping kicks and long arm techniques. The question of the origin of Southern Mantis will probably never be satisfactorily answered.

There is similar debate over which of the various branches of Southern Mantis is the original system: -

*CHU GAR TONGLONG

*CHOW GAR TONGLONG

*JOOK LUM TONGLONG

*CHI GAR TONGLONG

*IRON OX TONGLONG

Again, there is little evidence to come to a conclusive decision as to which system was the first. However, there are many parallels, which run through all Southern Mantis systems, in forms, exercises and weapons used, and it is probably safe to say that they are all related in one way or another.


Hopefully this will spawn some fun discussion :)

[Judge Pen]

Thanks for the info. Interesting style.

[chen zhen]

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1399/CHUindex.html
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1370
http://www.masterginfoonmark.com/menu.htm

[rfbrown3]

Judge Pen,

Way back in August of 1969, I came across a Black Belt Magazine with Master Gin Foon Mark on the cover that included a very interesting article about SPM. I was 12 years old at the time and was fascinated by what I read. However, sadly I have never lived any place where SPM is taught. I am now 46 years old, living in Dallas (actually Plano) and as far as I know there is no SPM in my area. Some Wing Chun and Hung Gar, but no SPM.

SPM just so that you will know, especially the Jook Lum style that is taught by Master Mark has been the subject of many a heated debate on this and other Kung Fu forums. For some reason this style, more than any other martial art that I know of, brings out the flame throwers. Like I said, just so that you will know.

Links to Master Mark:
http://masterginfoonmark.com/
http://www.maui.net/~mantis/

[chen zhen]

http://members.aol.com/martyeisen/mantis/Pmwebpage.htm

[greendragon]

Gin Foon Mark - Kwong Sai Jook Lum - that's the shizitz !!!! Jook Lum means bamboo forest. Bruce Lee (i know, i know) stayed at his school in New York when he first came here. Then Master Mark moved to Minneapolis. Fighting techniques can just sting you or rip you apart like a piece of chicken.

[Jook Lum]

Hello rfbrown3!Her is the number of a SPM school in Texas,not sure how close it is to you.I dont know how good or bad the school is,but heres the number-it is in Humble 713-540-8842.

Good luck!

[cha kuen]

Does anyone have footage on soutehrn mantis that they'd likel to share? I'm interested in watching some stuff on Gin Foon Mark. My sifu used to free spar with him a lot back in NYC.

PM me... i have quite a bit of stuff too..

[Jook Lum]

Hello Cha Kuen!Are you willing to share any comments on here about what your Sifu said about sparring with Sifu Mark?Otherwise PM me i am interested in hearing more about it.

Also who was your Sifu and what style? Thanks

[rfbrown3]

Jook Lum, hi, I live in Plano, TX and Humble, which is in the Houston area, is about a 5 to 6 hours drive away. Plus too, I am on 24/7 oncall, so driving to Houston would be out of the question. Thanks anyway, I appreciate your help

Sifu Henry Poo Yee is out of Houston, so the Humble school is probably one of his or one of his disciples.

[BeiTangLang]

Originally posted by Sam
Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai was derived from the movements of the Mantis. Three monks created the style. Sam Dot, Lee Siem, Wang lang. Wang Lang went north. South Mantis does not try to look like a Mantis but contains the essence of it's movements.

This is very interesting information. What doumentation is there to back it up? (Not flaming,....Honestly curious)
Thanks,
~BTL