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Zhuge Liang
08-20-2003, 03:47 PM
Hi All,

David Peterson's Biu Jee article got me thinking. How do different schools see the "essences" of each form? Why is it that SLT is the first form, then CK, then BJ, then the Jong Sau? The simple answer is that the sets get progressively advanced, each set building on the previous. So now my questions is, what is each form building?

Now I realize that anything can be anything, black can be white, and that there are a hojillion uses for every single aspect of every single movement of each form. And that forms are useless/useful. And that you should spend more/less time training them. And that you should stick to it/not be bogged down by the classical mess. And also something about sparring.

But what I'm looking for is what people think the "essence" of each form is. That is, at the end of the day, taking into account that anything can mean everything, what do you think each form does for the student? From your perspective. We are talking strictly opinion here, and there should be many, many different AND correct answers. For instance, Mr. Peterson's article suggests that the BJ form teaches the practioner to look at Wing Chun from outside the Wing Chun bubble.

Here are my opinions, and I should say that although the conclusions I've reached are a result from the knowledge graciously given to me by my instructor, my siheng/dai/jie/mui's, they do not necessarily represent the teachings of my school. Errors in judgement are mine alone.

SLT - teaches the student to be settled, to "connect" their body. In our school, the beginnings of the pervasive "long bridge energy" start here. Here's where you begin to learn "elbow and knee" energy and how to "connect to the floor."

CK - takes SLT a step further by teaching the student to use what they've learned in SLT in motion. That is, it's much easier to remain settled and to keep the body connected when one is motionless. It's much more difficult to maintain that state while in motion. CK seeks to train the student to maintain the "jeng tai geng" or "whole body energy" while in motion.

BJ - at this point the student has learned to be connected. "Long Bridge Energy" can be expressed both in stillness and in motion. Being internally connected as well as being connected to the floor is almost second nature. BJ seeks allow the practioner to express fully all the energy he/she has developed thus far (long bridge energy, whole body energy) in the 4 extremities. BJ helps us to learn how to use our long bridge energy in the tips of our fingers and toes. We learn how to express our energy fully and completely.

Jong - applications =)

So now that you have my opinions, what are yours?

Regards,
Zhuge Liang

Stevo
08-21-2003, 01:19 AM
I'm only really a beginner, having learnt SNT, CK and half of the MYJ form, and can't comment on BJ.

Ditto re forms one and two, plus obvious things like centreline and relaxation and also bridging, intercepting, jamming.

From my perspective so far, the dummy form trains angles, positioning, power, interception, recovery, footwork, amongst other things.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
Hi All,

David Peterson's Biu Jee article got me thinking. How do different schools see the "essences" of each form? [snip][UNQUOTE]

reneritchie
08-21-2003, 07:59 AM
Siu Lien Tao trains contraction and expansion.

Chum Kiu trains the contraction and expansion in turning and projecting.

Biu Jee trains the contraction and expansion in returning and over-turning.

Tom Kagan
08-21-2003, 08:37 AM
I agree with Rene, though I've always prefered calling it the relationship between tension and relaxation.

The essence of each form, to a certain extent, changes depending on what specific attributes a practitioner is concentrating on. Here are three example attributes looked at from the perspective of each form of the Trilogy of Ving Tsun forms:

The centerline: Learn the center, move the center, recover the center.

Power generation: develop power, direct power, control power.

Force/Flow: stillness, movement, dynamics (interaction with external force).

Forms, by themselves, are a very poor substitute for an instructor attempting to coax out application scenarios between classmates. I think that the most common misconception regarding the forms is that the movements contained within them directly relate to application. Forms are really attempts to explain concepts contained within the system. There is nothing specific in a form for application because application comes by training with partners and testing with opponents. (And, yes, a good partner, if you are so lucky to have one, knows how to be and, more importantly, when to be a decent stand-in for an opponent.)

In reality, forms (or any other solitary drill) can be best described in modern terms as "homework." It's something to work on when you don't have a suitable "lab partner." Forms would actually be wholely unnecessary if a practitioner were fortunate enough to have a sufficient variety of classmates who trained with the right manner. Even then, it would still be necessary to have the time to train at that level. But, the forms exist nonetheless. The chances of someone being so lucky to get away with ignoring their "homework," even decades ago, are not great.

"Start by copying. A short bridge, using a standard compass, finds the plum flower forest." -- SiuNimTao, ChumKiu, BiuJe, MoyFahJong.

teazer
08-21-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
But what I'm looking for is what people think the "essence" of each form is. That is, at the end of the day, taking into account that anything can mean everything, what do you think each form does for the student? From your perspective. We are talking strictly opinion here, and there should be many, many different AND correct answers

1st form - Teaching to be on our best behaviour for polite company.
2nd form - How not to embarrass the family when meeting strangers.
3rd form - What we can get away with when we're at home.

;)

burnsypoo
08-21-2003, 01:34 PM
1st) Self Love
2nd) Partnered Love
3rd) Crazy University Frat-House Party Love.

Sam
08-21-2003, 08:48 PM
http://www.futsaoyongchunkuen.com/handfootforms.htm

Atleastimnotyou
08-22-2003, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Sam
http://www.futsaoyongchunkuen.com/handfootforms.htm


LOL :rolleyes: