Qigong and/or meditation stuff

[IronFist]

Ok, I posted this here instead of in the qigong forum cuz more people come here.

What is the easiest qigong to do for improving health? I always read about qigong guys who don't ever get sick, and that sounds awesome. But some of the more advanced practices I read about makes me scared to try them... things like going crazy if you get qi in your head, or being in terrible pain every time you get an erection (Glenn Morris' kundalini experience). And a bunch of other stuff.

Now, is abstaining from sex a general rule for all qigong? Because that doesn't sound very practical.

So what's the best? Just like standing post or something? Can you do it sitting as well? What's the difference?

Thanks,

IronFist

[count]

It's not the method that counts. It's correct and regular practice that matters. No short cuts, no easier way, only do it. Personally, I think Tai Chi or bagua is the best qigong. It has a duel and more practicle result. Kicking ass. :cool:

[Laughing Cow]

8 Section Brocade is considered a good start.

Sorry, not going to repost all the links there is a thread taht ahs them all.

Apart from that go with what count said.
:D

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by IronFist
What is the easiest qigong to do for improving health? I always read about qigong guys who don't ever get sick, and that sounds awesome.

That's a bit exaggerated. I would say you simply get sick a hell of a lot less often, and when you do, it's not too bad. That's not to say there aren't exceptions. The flu nailed me pretty good in the spring of 1999, but I haven't had so much as a stuffy nose since then.


But some of the more advanced practices I read about makes me scared to try them... things like going crazy if you get qi in your head, or being in terrible pain every time you get an erection (Glenn Morris' kundalini experience). And a bunch of other stuff.

This is why you need a good teacher. Don't try anything out of a book.


Now, is abstaining from sex a general rule for all qigong? Because that doesn't sound very practical.

Regulation- yes, restriction- no. Abstension is only required for a few advanced qigongs. There are formulas for regulating ejaculation frequency for balance and "gain" of jing. There are a number of practices that also foster separating ejaculation and orgasm so that the task of regulating becomes a bit easier.


So what's the best? Just like standing post or something? Can you do it sitting as well? What's the difference?

As far as simplicity goes, yes, standing post is probably the best.

Sitting qigong/meditation is different from standing. For instance, in standing post your breathing should be somewhat vigorous, and anywhere from 4-12 breaths per minute, depending on skill. Sitting, the breathing should be so soft that a feather placed under the nose won't tremble, and at only 1-2 breaths per minute. Sitting is a more advanced practice and I certainly do not advocate a beginner "trying it out". If you are sincerely interested in getting into qigong, you should find a teacher. It's much safer that way.

[QuaiJohnCain]

So what's the best? Just like standing post or something? Can you do it sitting as well? What's the difference?


Oh yeah, should have clarified- you asked both "easiest" and "best". Standing post alone is simple, but it ain't easy.

The best? Standing (post and other postures too) and taiji form done slowly . The more, the better.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by QuaiJohnCain
Sitting, the breathing should be so soft that a feather placed under the nose won't tremble, and at only 1-2 breaths per minute. Sitting is a more advanced practice and I certainly do not advocate a beginner "trying it out". If you are sincerely interested in getting into qigong, you should find a teacher. It's much safer that way.

What makes the sitting stuff more dangerous?

IronFist

[jun_erh]

ifist- i would also recommend the 8 section brocade and I don't think you need an instructor as it is very basic and good to mess around with in figuring out what you want out of qigong. In general you want to use as little strength as possible. Probably the best ting I've gotten out of qigong and tai chi, I've just recently started learning, is that it's gotten me to think alot more realisticly about fighting in terms of doing things without superhuman flying kicks and bursts of strength. NOt that I can do those!

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by IronFist


What makes the sitting stuff more dangerous?

IronFist



For dabblers- not much. Most people who try sitting are back up standing within ten minutes either because they simply cannot relax and sit still, or thier mind wont shut up and they get bored. Then there are those who have a bit more willpower and they'll sit for 20-30 minutes visualising all kinds of crap, and are usually so wrapped up in that they forget to breath. A good practice for concentration for visualisation, but folks, visualizing ain't gonna do much for your health. In fact, it will drag you very far off of the road.

When one starts to really relax into a sitting posture and get into breathing is where sitting qigong gets dangerous. But like I said above, 98% of people who try this are back on thier feet within 10-15 minutes. And the visualizers aren't really doing anything but empowering thier imagination- perfectly safe. Ironically, these types usually consider themselves accomplished.

Now, when you have a person sitting for 30-60 minutes, and they are actively concentrating to quiet the mind (this implies LOOKING, not visualising) they are doing something safe. Healthy even. BUT- if they are including breathing in thier concentration while making thier body very relaxed, a number of things can happen.... Sudden release of body traumas, premature energetic release (opening the wrong "chakra" or meridian) which can lead to serious problems (see info on Kundalini Syndrome- Gopi Krishna wrote a whole book about these dangers) I know a man who gets to sit in a rubber room for the rest of his life becasue he screwed up so badly. On a simple level, the greatest risk is having too much energy accumulate in the head, which leads to all kinds of interesting problems.

IMO prerequisites to doing sitting meditation include doing standing meditation (standing post, etc) for an hour a day at least, and have a taiji long form down, and done three or four times per day. Doing standing and forms strengthens the mind enough to make sitting faily easy, and grounds the body enough to avoid the hazards of sitting.

[IronFist]

BUT- if they are including breathing in thier concentration while making thier body very relaxed, a number of things can happen.... Sudden release of body traumas, premature energetic release (opening the wrong "chakra" or meridian)

So how do you know if something is proper technique or breathing versus improper?

which can lead to serious problems (see info on Kundalini Syndrome- Gopi Krishna wrote a whole book about these dangers)

I plan on checking that out.

I know a man who gets to sit in a rubber room for the rest of his life becasue he screwed up so badly.

What happened? I mean, what happened to him, and what was the result? How and why did he go crazy?

standing meditation (standing post, etc) for an hour a day at least,

So is that pretty safe? I don't want any rubber rooms in my future.

IronFist

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by IronFist

So how do you know if something is proper technique or breathing versus improper?

By what your teacher says.



I know a man who gets to sit in a rubber room for the rest of his life becasue he screwed up so badly.

What happened? I mean, what happened to him, and what was the result? How and why did he go crazy?

He was doing the breath of fire (yoga) trying to get kundalini. Ever see a crazy guy having conversations with walls? That's what he does, 24/7. How? He screwed up. Why? Because that's what "trying out" this kind of stuff can do to you without someone to guide you properly.


standing meditation (standing post, etc) for an hour a day at least,

So is that pretty safe? I don't want any rubber rooms in my future.

IronFist

Yes, as long as you stay relaxed, and breath fully, yet naturally. The real key to standing is relaxation. Hold posture, relax, breath, and keep your mind on lower dan tien. When I say this I mean FEEL it, LOOK at it, don't visualize there, that takes your mind into the opposite direction you want it to be going for this training.

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by TonyM.

Curious about sitting. It's my understanding that attemting small circulation from a folded leg position is safer as the path is less likely to be diverted to the legs because of the closed gates.

For beginners, this is key. After one gets the small circulation going smoothly, it's time for large circulation and this rule can be scrapped.

[IronFist]

breath of fire

Is that where you breathe in and out shallowly really fast? I had a gen ed class called Posture and Relaxation and we did a bit of yoga and meditation, and one of the breathing techniques she taught us was called breath of fire, as I described above.

IronFist

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by IronFist
breath of fire

Is that where you breathe in and out shallowly really fast? I had a gen ed class called Posture and Relaxation and we did a bit of yoga and meditation, and one of the breathing techniques she taught us was called breath of fire, as I described above.

IronFist

Yes. Don't practice it.

And I agree... Dimmu rules.

[IronFist]

Why shouldn't I practice it? Not that I ever did, just curious. She said it's good for generating heat when you're cold or something. Or maybe she said it's good for generating energy when you're tired. I don't remember exactly.

IronFist

[jun_erh]

did the guy have any mental problems prior to studying yoga. I don't see how someone can go crazy by hyperventilating

[Sam Wiley]

dude was cracked

all there is to it

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by IronFist
Why shouldn't I practice it? Not that I ever did, just curious. She said it's good for generating heat when you're cold or something. Or maybe she said it's good for generating energy when you're tired. I don't remember exactly.

IronFist

On a physical level, that kind of breathing will get the blood pressure running too high, and the only reasn people report an energy boost is the sudden oxygen over-saturation that it produces. This by itself is one thing, but when you do it while deeply relaxed and concentrating on certain areas of your body, you can run a high risk of triggering unwanted release/openings.

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by jun_erh
did the guy have any mental problems prior to studying yoga. I don't see how someone can go crazy by hyperventilating

No, he was totally normal. Check out Gopi Krishna's book. Brathing funny can most definitely cause you to go nuts. Think about how different your breathing is when you're sad, angry, scared, happy, in trauma, relaxed, sleeping, in shock, etc... You can directly influence your physiology by the way you breath. Most of the time, your breathing is on auto pilot, but marked physiological changes occur when you start paying attention to your breath, and even more if you actively practice a breath pattern that is different than "auto pilot". Think about it.

[Sam Wiley]

Sorry, I still don't buy it. Changing the breathing changes physiology and mindstate, yes, but not permanently. Despite a belief in qi, there are still some things I have a hard time accepting, and this is one area. I hear all the time about people who got qi stuck in their heads or who went crazy from this or that exercise, and I start looking for who is shovelling the **** and who's buying it.

If such a thing is true, there is a fix, and I have heard plenty of cases where it was fixed.

But being permanently driven crazy? Bull****. Dude was already cracked. He finally broke all the way.

Not trying to be argmentative, here. Just getting tired of the same old "I know this guy who had an entire book of acid in his pocket and got sprayed by a lawn sprinkler that popped up and the acid all soaked in and now he thinks he's a glass of orange juice and he's locked up in a padded cell at the nut hatch....If you go visit him, don't tip him over!" kind of stories.

The problem with the dividing line between sanity and insanity is that it is blurred. According to theory, nobody is completely sane. That means that everyone, no matter what, is a little insane. So, if you yourself are slightly batty, how in the name of Hell are you supposed to judge if someone is more or less sane than you?! The whole god**** theory is flawed, as is the science, because if everyone is insane to some degree, why should I listen to what another person says about someone's level of sanity since the person telling me whether or not someone is insane is in fact insane himself?! What is this? I don't have to see a performance of The Madness of Logic to see the folly in the situation.

[jun_erh]

personally I wasn't doubting that it could happen, just wondering if the guy had troubles beforehand

[Fu-Pow]

Here's my take.

Meditation brings you closer to yourself.

For some people that might not be the best thing.

If you already have severe mental problems it might be enough to push you over the edge.

One of my Zen meditation books recommends that if you have mental illness you should not practice meditation until you get your illness sorted out.

It reminds me of the people who are already crazy who take LSD.

They go completely bonkers. It's the little push that sends them completely over the edge.

Then you here all the reports about LSD making you go crazy.

Not quite....if it made you crazy you were already half way there.

[jun_erh]

I think a big problem with learning on your own is that you could very well be wasting your time. Qigong and tai chi have less risks than, say, iron shirt or something, but you may end up just doing the motions without getting the benefits.