Weight lifting program idea number 1

[IronFist]

Hmm, so yeah you guys know I'm looking for some new weight lifting.

Strength is important to me, which was reaffirmed to me today after I got stuck bench pressing under a weight that was less than what I used to use for my first set.

But the problem with "get strong fast" programs is that they kill your endurance.

So what about this:

What if I were to do PTP 3, or maybe 4 days a week, and then on the 5th day do 10 sets of 10 with a lower weight (German Volume Training). 10 sets of 10 would be 100 reps, or 10 times the normal PTP workload. That should encourage some sort of endurance adaption, right? The only problem with this would be, when you PTP it's ok to squat and bench and everything on the same day, but GVT for squat and bench on the same day would kill me.

I don't really care about doing 10x10 for pullups, cuz my back is always big and strong even when I take huge breaks (knock on wood). I would just add some supplementary bicep work in there cuz my biceps don't like to grow.

So, what about something like this:

Day 1 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU (weighted pullups)
Day 2 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU
Day 3 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU
Day 4 - GVT SQ, PTP BP/ WPU (optional if I feel like it)
Day 5 - GVT BP/ Probably no SQ cuz sore from ^ /option bicep or something
Day 6 - Rest
Day 7 - Rest
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The only problem with that schedule is that I have an extra PTP BP than SQ. I guess perhaps I could alternate each week which exercise gets the extra workout, so the next day would go like this:
Day 1 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU
Day 2 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU
Day 3 - PTP SQ/BP/WPU
Day 4 - GVT BP/PTP SQ/ WPU (optional if I feel like it)
Day 5 - GVT SQ/ optional biceps or calves or something.
Day 6 - Rest
Day 7 - Rest
-------------

edit: I would increase the PTP weight the normal way, and probably add 5lbs to the GVT weight each week. I have no idea yet if these would ever clash or not at some point, however./edit

Hmm, what do you guys this? Would that be too much stress on my nervous system or something with the GVT added in? Or do you think GVT is not even worthwhile? But I can't see how 10 sets of 10 would not increase some muscular endurance... I would just have to start really low (<50% 1RM) or something.

Ok, opinions please.

Thanks,

IronFist

[IronFist]

^ the only problem with that is that it doesn't give me much time to do assistance work (triceps, for example). Now, I need that no so much to increase my bench, but because my arms don't grow from compound movements. I just have weird genetics like that. For example, benching works my pecs and shoulders, but not triceps. Most people have to do tons of supplementary shoulder work, but not me. But my triceps don't grow from benching, and they barely grow when I do seperate stuff from them.

Kind of like my biceps. I can do pullups, weighted or bodyweight, all day, and my biceps stay small. I must do pullups weird... cuz even after I do tons of bicep work and they're all tired I can still do a pullup or two.

I dunno.

Ok this is just me rambling, so just comment on the program.

Also, I'd probably find some way to add DL's in there, because I love DL'ing. I just pulled 87% of my old 1RM after a huge layoff. Too bad my other lifts don't go down that slowly.

IronFist

[Samurai Jack]

Wow! That's a serious routine. I take back what I said about being stronger than you. Can you explain the PTP? If I did what I'm doing right now five days a week I would be overtrained by the third or fourth day, unless the PTP protocol is a lighter workload than I'm thinking? Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction, Iron.

[IronFist]

Hmm, given our recent conversations I can't help but think that might have been a sarcastic reply. :confused:

But for the benefit of lurkers who might be reading, or in case you were actually serious, I'll answer it anyway.

Wow! That's a serious routine. I take back what I said about being stronger than you.

First of all, I'm sure you are stronger than me, especially right now. The seriousness of a routine doesn't = strength. I could be doing GVT with 5lbs total for all you know :D

Can you explain the PTP?

PTP is low volume, hence you can do it every day. It's 2 sets of 5, with 5 minutes break. You start with your 10RM, but only do 5 reps. The second set is 90% of the first set, and you add 5lbs to the first set each day. You stop when you can't do 5 reps with the first weight, which is usually about 2 weeks into it. The plus side is that it builds strength fairly quickly. The down side is that it kills your endurance.

If I did what I'm doing right now five days a week I would be overtrained by the third or fourth day, unless the PTP protocol is a lighter workload than I'm thinking?

Yup, it's prety light workload, even when you're using weights close to your 1RM. The only thing that can happen is your nervous system can kinda go nuts as you get to the end of the cycle. Your muscles aren't really sore ever, but like... you're kinda jittery or something. It's on the inside. I don't know what else to call it besides nervous system fatigue, and it's only happened to me PTP'ing once when I was setting huge (for me) new DL PR's.

IronFist

[Samurai Jack]

Hey man, seriously, I've got tons of respect and gratitude for you. Sorry we don't always agree, but I'll take advice from you over most others on this board.Your posts have inspired me to try stuff which has made me bigger, leaner, and stronger than I've ever been in my life!

I've got that book "Super Squats" where you got the 20 rep squat program being mailed to me from amazon as we speak. I, also am looking for something new. I need a routine that challenges my biceps as well as my forearms, but it's also got to maintain or increase my powerlifts.

Maybe I'll try PTP if I don't like the Super squats. I did try doing 21's for squats like we talked about last week, but it was so hard that I failed on the 5th rep of my second set (I planned on doing a light 21 warmup, then a medium weight set). On the other hand, my legs are so sore I can hardly walk, so maybe it's working!

[IronFist]

Good luck with the 20 rep squat thing. Let me know how it works.

Also, bump for more opinions.

IronFist

[Ford Prefect]

Hey Iron,

Christian Thibadeau recently reworked GVT to come up with what he calls OVT (Optimized Volume Training). You may want to check that out since you could use the same weights you are using in PTP. I've become a fan of CT since I've started reading his articles. I'm sure you'll find he is a pretty smart guy. The article should be in T-mag's archives. Just search on Thibadeau.

Other than that the program looks like it should net you some results.

[IronFist]

Thibaudeau :)

I think I'll try my routine above first, but thanks for the OVT info.

IronFist

[Suntzu]

Sounds ummmmm.... well... ummmm... very detailed.... dude u have supreme will power ans stick-to-it-tiveness.... from what i could decode... it seems like you might get what you are asking for....

Question>>> u have PTP 3 days in a row... y not break each day for each exercise... say day 1 PTP BP... and than follow that with the assistance stuff... Day 2 PTP SQ... followed by assistance work... witch could also be endurance sets...

i wish i could follow programs line for line like that... i just follow what my needs are(strength... endurance... size... muscle group) and work within that framework... i never have a clue what i'm gonna do until i have the weight in my hands... basically...

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Suntzu
Question>>> u have PTP 3 days in a row... y not break each day for each exercise... say day 1 PTP BP... and than follow that with the assistance stuff... Day 2 PTP SQ... followed by assistance work... witch could also be endurance sets...


That's because if I did PTP BP one day, and then assistance work and endurance stuff, I would be too sore to do PTP BP again the next day. Since PTP kind of relies on frequent training, I can't add anything in the middle of it that would cause soreness. That's why I do the high volume stuff when I'm going to have days off at the end. I hope it works.

I like to have certain things written down before I start sometimes. With weight lifting, that's one of those things. If I just train by "feel" I don't really make much progress I don't think. I haven't done it that way in a while, though. But if I'm following a weight lifting program I don't like ambiguity. That's why I didn't like/understand Westside's training program that was posted here. I like exact %'s and reps for each day.

Other things I don't like having schedules for, but for working out I need them.

IronFist

[Suntzu]

didn't even think about the soreness issue... but than again i am always sore from one thing or another...
With weight lifting, that's one of those things. If I just train by "feel" I don't really make much progress i understand... we have different goals with weight training... i'm not going by the numbers so much as i am looking for that mythical/magical "carryover" that is argued about on forums world wide web wide...

good luck wit it...