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View Full Version : what should you do if someone gets you in a bear hug from either the front or the back with your arm



phantom
03-24-2001, 12:59 AM
Same as topic. Thank you for any advice that you could get me concerning this.

joedoe
03-24-2001, 01:08 AM
First thing you should try to do is relax - this makes it harder for them to hold you and lift you. Try a head butt as well if you can :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

JerryLove
03-24-2001, 02:00 AM
Back of head against unknown target? No I don't like that.

Depends on what he is trying to do with you. If he's just lifting and squeezing, "run" smahing your heels into what ever is there. That or undulate hard (making sure to stick both your legs forward and move them in lurching motions), making it very hard to hold you up. Grab at the testies, try to crush them and start yanking like trying to pull a branch off a tree.

A little rougher if he wants to hep over and land both of you on your head. Gotta stop that one early. The "wet sack of flower" and kicking fast, early, and hard do work. I had one person pull that off anyway (course he had me outweightd 2 to 1, was an experienced fighter, and all muscle).

Martial Joe
03-24-2001, 07:33 AM
headbutt...Make sure you use your upper body with it..Dont only use your neck.With the body with it it will be alot more powerful...

Martial Joe
03-24-2001, 07:34 AM
Or knee him in the balls!..Because if you think about it all the guy is doing is setting him self up..Your arm are not able to use and neither are his...your legs and head are able to be used and so is his head but now well.Your legs are in the right spot to knee his groin.Thats why putting someone in a bear hug is stupid.


Joe

Vankuen
03-24-2001, 11:48 AM
A bear hug huh? Hmmm. Well as stated you have the headbutt for extreme measures, but I really consider that a last measure, as any impact to your skull takes it toll.

If your hands are in the right place you have the groin grab, it will be hard to actually hit though if hes squeezing tight.

There always your legs too, giving him all you have in his sack with your feet would be a little better, and more likely to succeed.

Lets see, you can always do what I call curving and going dead, which is often times performed in gung fu for this type of grap, curving the spin and pressing forward the arms at the shoulder, while at the same time lowering the center and becoming dead weight. Once you relax you might be able to slip out, roll and be out of range. Like I said you "might"

Heres another one that Ive done (for a back bear hug) is kicking my legs up high to get him off balance and then swinging them down with all I have to bring my center hopefully lower than his, and if he doesnt outweigh you too much you may be able to hip toss him over you! I and one of my friends have used that successfully.

Lots of stuff to do my man, just make sure you dont think about all this when the time comes to perform, you should already have it ingrained into your system!

"From one thing know ten thousand things" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

Boulder Student
03-24-2001, 03:34 PM
My main concern would be a header into the concrete. Currently you have NO root or base, so grapevine a leg.

Next relax and sink as you cross whatever part of your arms are available. Throw a head butt and a knee if your facing him as you expand you trunk and open his arms. If your back is to him, bicycle kick into his groin with your free leg as you do the chest and arms expansion to loosen his grip.

Remember the grapevine, without it you are completely at his mercy as far as taking a header into the pavement. At least with one of his legs wrapped up, you have some control.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

JerryLove
03-24-2001, 11:28 PM
And why is everyone presuming that his face is at a height appropriate to headbutt? Though I must admit, I had been presuming a grab from behind. This makes more sense as a technique from in front.

joedoe
03-25-2001, 01:48 AM
For most people to lift someone off the ground with a bear hug, it would put their head withing headbutt distance. For most people anyway :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

Merryprankster
03-27-2001, 04:57 PM
If he grabs you from behind, and pins both arms down:

1. If he's at above the elbow with his wrap around, grapevine one leg. Use this grape vine, to pull you/sink down as you lift your arms up and out to the side, hooking his arms in the crook of your elbow. His arms should start to slide up your biceps and over your shoulders. As soon as you have enough space and a foot hits the floor, get your hips away from his body, and turn to face him.

2. If he is BELOW your elbow, ie, has your forearms pinned, grapevine one leg and squirm like an apoplectic having a fit to create space/sink your hips and free one of your arms. Take the free hand and place it on top of his locked hands. Push down and away on his locked hands with your arms and bodyweight to free up the other arm. This whole time, you should be trying to get your feet on the floor, but if you can't you've still got the grapevine. Once both arms are free, you can do whatever your style might do from there. I personally would place both of my hands on top of his and thrust down and out to break the grip, get my hips away as my feet hit the floor, maintain hand control and turn towards my assailant.

I figure if you can get in a headbutt, that might not be too bad either, but if the person keeps their head in tight to your shoulder/neck/head, I think it would be hard to create the space necessary for an effective strike, IMO.

Merryprankster
03-27-2001, 05:10 PM
If somebody has both of your arms trapped in a bear hug and has lifted you off the ground from the front:

1. If the guy has your arms trapped at or above the elbow, sink your weight down hard while throwing your arms up and out to the sides, arms bent at the elbow. You can also push at his hips with your hands. You are trying to create space so your body can drop, and the bent elbows keep him from regripping lower (If you are pushing his hips, obviously you won't be bending your elbows). IF you can grapevine a leg, try it, but I have better luck without it. Done properly, his lock will slide up your arms and over your shoulders, getting looser, the higher he goes. Once your feet hit the ground and his lock is loose, get your hips back to prevent him from getting control of your body. I would either back out or counter attack with my own body lock or double underhooks, depending on the situation.

2. If it's from the front and he is below your elbow, I usually try to get my weight down and work enough space to push on his hips and get my body back so he can't fit in well for a lift or throw. Once you have his hips away there are an awful lot of options. I prefer to get out and away, however. If you can headbutt, I suppose you could.

Radhnoti
03-27-2001, 05:30 PM
For a bear hug from behind, don't panic. Roll your shoulders forward to keep him from squeezing the air from your lungs. Stomp his foot, kick his knee. Swivel your hips and strike the groin. Head butt the front of his face. All this is done to keep him off balance...and maybe loosen (or break) his grip. Fall out into a horse stance, this will bring him off balance. Work your closest leg behind your opponents and throw your arms out. In my school this is just a "basic" attack scenario that we cover quite often. You have to alter your actual moves to fit the situation.

-Radhnoti

JerryLove
03-27-2001, 10:41 PM
Prankster,

I'm still gonna have to oppose shoving your head back into the unknown with any speed. The front of his skull is better reenforced than the back of yours. I think the reality of grapevining is that you are either out or hurt faster than that.

Radhonti -

Squeezing out the air is not an issue, even if he's big enough, the hug isn't going to last that long. Also, a grab around the chest is not what will wind you, and I don't see rolling your shoulders helping for a grab around the abdomen.

Your response seems typical TKD / American Karate. And it fails on several levels. The best way to see it would be to have someone with wrestling experience grab you for a toss to the matt. I think the epileptic fit idea (done a little more specifically than described) would be more effective.

Of course, there are always a lot of variables.

Radhnoti
03-28-2001, 03:51 PM
Thanks for your perspective Jerry. I think my teacher tells us to roll our shoulders forward as part of a "overall philosophy" too. He always has us couter the intentions of our attacker first, and then move on from there.

-Radhnoti

Tigerdragon
03-28-2001, 05:07 PM
If it is from the back then kick your leggs down HARD. The force will make him drop you. At the same time your leggs meet the ground throw your arms forward. I have yet to have anyone keep thier hold when doing those two moves together.
from here move into and elbow (you are already loaded for it due to your arms being forward) then just do whatever else you see fit.

If it is from the front....knee the balls DUH. Yea yea I know, a hit to the balls isn't usualy the "ultra painfull" shop people seem to think it is. But the shock and suprise alone will make him let go. From there do whatever to want to drop the guy

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

Merryprankster
03-28-2001, 06:17 PM
I agree that I wouldn't headbutt, but I don't do Kung Fu. I come to this forum because I find it to be more to my taste than some others, and I didn't want to upset anybody by saying that I didn't think a headbutt was a good idea. My background is Wrestling and BJJ with a SMALL amount of Muay Thai thrown in, so I didn't want to speak out of my area of knowledge.

I also agree that getting the air squeezed out of your lungs is a silly worry. What is the attacker, a hydraulic press? :)

I have to disagree on the grapevining though. If the guy has already lifted you and is trying to toss you, a grapevine might work. Just like anything, there is a time and place for it. It won't always work, but it's nice to have in your toolbox.

I'm seeing a lot of knee to the groin answers here. I don't like that solution. If your attacker has lifted you, it's not just a heave ho. That means his hips are in TIGHT to your body in some way. It's going to be extremely difficult to create enough space to knee somebody effectively before they put you down. Mostly, you'll "thigh" them in the groin, and I can attest to the fact that that doesn't hurt much.

Tigerdragon, could you expound upon your explanation at all? I'm having a difficult time envisioning a successful version of it.

[This message was edited by Merryprankster on 03-29-01 at 08:22 AM.]

Tigerdragon
03-29-2001, 11:25 AM
Ok first I want to clairify that from the front a knee will work because....you should throw it BEFORE he actually lifts you or JUST as he begins to lift you (this would use his own force against him. If someone attacks you from the front and can bear hug and lift you befor you do anything....you are way to slow and better start training harder. Just my oppinion.

As for the BH from behind. In most cases by the time you start to react, since it is an attack from behind, he has already started lifting you. When this happens its usualy your insting to raise your knees tword your chest, and if not conciously do it(this acts as sort of a counter weight and momentarily makes you heavier). At this point, throw your head and shoulders forward as best you can and your legs back to the ground. This WILL bring you back to the ground unless this guy is Andre the giant or someone who is just abnormaly strong. At the moment your feet make contact to the ground force your shoulders down and out and shoot your arms straint out as if dound a two hand punch to the chest of someone in front of you as you step back with one foot at the same time. This will break his hold. Now twist into a 50/50 stance (neutral bow or even a horse) into him which will cause you to bump him with your shoulder, and he will be slightly off balance (hopefully), and throw an elbow at the same time. The procces of when your arms shoot forward all the way to the elbow should be VERY fast and fluid. your arms should be like a rubbe band....its stretches forward (breaking the hold) then snaps back into the elbow.

This does work, it has worked for me when wrestng with my friends (of course i used a tricept hit instead of an elbow then so it would be more of a push and wouldn't hurt him badly)

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

Merryprankster
03-29-2001, 03:16 PM
Tiger,

That makes sense. Agreed that a knee might end it BEFORE they lift you up. Just for the record though, somebody attacking you from the front with a bear hug isn't necessarily some big dumb mook. There are many ways to achieve a waist clinch/bodylock besides the "I have the arms out, look at me, here I come," method. Being "way too slow" isn't necessarily part of the equation.

It sounds like it's based on similar principles, just the specifics are different. I'm glad it works for you, but I have to say that if I felt somebody raise their knees like you described, I would immediately try for a move similar to a modified Ura Nage/Suplesse (Throw you over my back/to the side). It's true that you would be heavier in my ARMS, but you are also balled up for an instant, placing more of your weight above/closer to my hips, making it easier for me to throw you.

That said, I have one rule: "If it works, it wasn't stupid." It might not be standard, or "what I would do," but all that means is that general principles have been successfully applied to overcome a specific situation.

JerryLove
03-29-2001, 10:00 PM
"When this happens its usualy your insting to raise your knees tword your chest, and if not conciously do it(this acts as sort of a counter weight and momentarily makes you heavier)."

With all the inertia going I doubt the success. When you try this, is your partner aggressively tring to toss you over his back (e.g. is he trying to win)?

"At the moment your feet make contact to the ground force your shoulders down and out and shoot your arms straint out as if dound a two hand punch to the chest of someone in front of you as you step back with one foot at the same time."

And if he is aggressively trying to maintain the hold, and your thecnique worked, he now has you by the neck instead of the chest. Further, I would say that he failed to hug close enough to you, he should have followed your body forward.

" This will break his hold. Now twist into a 50/50 stance (neutral bow or even a horse) into him which will cause you to bump him with your shoulder, and he will be slightly off balance (hopefully),"

Unless he is in the process of advancing and squeezing your neck. Again, try this with an opponent who is attempting to win.

"This does work, it has worked for me when wrestng with my friends (of course i used a tricept hit instead of an elbow then so it would be more of a push and wouldn't hurt him badly)"

And on a counternote, I've seen it defeated.

"Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready"

Agreed.

devere
03-30-2001, 12:14 AM
I had a buddy who's a bouncer do this to me and he asked me the same question cause he's thrown guys out of bars this way. I couldn't head butt him cause he kept his face back and I couldn't get my leg wrapped around his to flip him over mine because he had me in the air. The one weak point to this is the knees. Back kick and dislocate his kneecap. He'll probably put you down then.

frosh2786
03-30-2001, 05:17 AM
back kick in the balls?

Tigerdragon
03-30-2001, 08:10 AM
Of course this has been defeated. There is no "sure fire" way to counter anything. And yes he was trying to win. Mind you we were doing this on a mat so that neither one of us was really worried about getting hurt by being thrown.

As far as his hands being at your neck, no they won't. Remember, he is squezzing in and pulling up. In order to pin someone's arms in a bear hug you usualy grab around the lower chest earea to pin the arms near the albows. (I'm assuming this is the grab meant in the scenerio for this thread). So using the down and out angles, you just break his hold and force his arms out to the sides. Yes when you do this his upper body will come forward. This is where the legg comes in. When you step back as you shoot your arms forward, it makes for a longer reach for him and stretches him out, weakening his power base. On a side note, when you kick down to the ground you may even get lucking and land on his foot, possibly breaking it. This will have a bit of an effect too. But that is more ov an incidental hit then an aimed hit.

Now I know this will not always work. I even admitted in my previous post that some people, who are extreamly strong can still hold on or even follow through with the throw regaurdless if you do this or not. However in my oppinion it is better then using a headbutt or not doing anything at all.

MerryPrankster,
As far as being too slow, yes its true there are other ways to get to a bear hug other then strait forward arms out. But the way I see it is, if you let him get that far, he is probably morse skilled and you will probably loose anyway.

Just my 2 cents

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

Tigerdragon
03-30-2001, 08:12 AM
a back kick to the jewls wouldn't really work. You can't really reach that spot from a back BH. His hips are going to be at about the same hight as yours and too close in to get your foot up there. I like the suggestion of hitting the kneecap...ouch

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

Merryprankster
04-01-2001, 02:00 PM
Ok, fair enough Tigerdragon.

Regards,

James

house of chang
04-09-2001, 09:11 PM
definitely try kicking vulnerable targets (knees, groin).

take a fingernail and jam it hard underneath the cuticle of one of their fingers. guaranteed, they'll let go.

through it all, you definitely wanna stay relaxed.

peace...

__________

Martial Ethics Method