BJJ Bandwagon Boyz

[Je Lei Sifu]

Can one of you pro-bjj'ers, explain something to me. Most of you speak lowly of gung fu and it's effectiveness. And there always seems to be a post that talks about Royce beat this gung fu master, or so-and-so beat this gung fu master, and gung fu is ineffective because this bjj'er fought said gung fu master of xyz style. However,it seems that you all are talking from the spectators section of the ring or should I say the bandwagon. I'll agree, without a doubt, that bjj is very effective in a given situation, but so are all other styles. Bjj is very successful and popular among the martial arts circle nowadays. But just like the ninja craze of the 80's and Napolean Bonapart, they both meet their Waterloos. But it is also nice to admire the heros in a persons given style, just as most of the bjj'ers admire Royce. But when have you, as a bjj'er defeated a gung fu master? It is nice to talk about what Royce has done, to this gung fu master or karate master. But you haven't said a thing about your triumphs over gung fu masters. So please, get off the bandwagon and stop living behind Royce's fame, and make yourself a better person and defeat whom ever you may by being a competitor and not a spectator.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

:cool:

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

[Chang Style Novice]

And I'll kick the ass of anyone who says I have!

_______________________
Everything is universal, by definition.

[Archangel]

I've beaten several Kung Fu masters myself single handedly. They were extremely innefective, could not punch or take a punch and had no ground skills whatsoever. I had one of them choked out while at the same time I had another in an ankle lock tapping.

I know if I could read your mind right now you'd be thinking THIS GUY IS FULL OF ****. Well you see that is just the problem with anecdotal information over the internet. Anybody can say anything about any subject. Does that mean it's true? well maybe or then again maybe not; whatever is said is very difficult to prove.

That is why many BJJ and mixed martial artist use Pride and the UFC in there debates. It is something that we have ALL SEEN OR HEARD ABOUT. no one can claim that it was Bull**** and didn't happen, there is proof which can be witnessed by all. And again I reiterate that MMA is the clearest legal medium we have to witness how a styles techniques apply in the real world.

[Dragon Warrior]

i have beaten jujitsu stylist, karate stylist, kung fu stylist, tae kwon do stylist kickboxers and muy thai stylist.

i have never beaten any "masters."

i have lost to all of the above also.

SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!

I dont give a God ****,
on the fights you did,
how many moves you got,
or who knows you kid,
cause i don't know you therefore show me what you know,
i come sharp as a blade and i'll cut you slow (GZA Wu-Tang Clan)
Chris V.

[ope]

I dont think any of us has to actually worry about whats better... unless you meet someone in the street that wants to fight you and this person knows bjj etc... but usualy the ones who can fight dont look for fights and try to aviod it, so does it really matter which one is better? i mean we can spend months agrueing about this.. and to me its getting tiredsum.. we are all MA and should repsect each other no matter what MA we practice..

[Je Lei Sifu]

The point I was trying to get across, is that most people on this board that speak highly of Bjj, seem to speak of other peoples success instead of their own.

Also as I have stated, I think Bjj is a very effective style given the situation that you are in.

If you yourself, defeated several gung fu masters, then that shows how well skilled you are in your chosen art. But in America, there are several people who claim to be gung fu masters, but really aren't. Now this is not to take away the success that you have had. For all I know, the masters that you have defeated, may have been true masters of thier art.

But I also have a partner, who is a bjj'er that have never defeated me. Now the reason being, may be the fact that he is close to 20 yrs my senior. But to give credit to him, he has tapped several bjj'ers out that are 10 yrs plus my junior.

But all-in-all, if you defeat a master of a given style, does that making the style ineffective or does it make the practitioner ineffective? If your answer is that the styles of gung fu are ineffective, then bjj has be proven on several occasions to be ineffective. I myself have seen several bjj'ers defeated by the hands of other practitioners of their style as well as other styles. But yet, none of the bjj'ers will admit to the ineffectiveness of bjj.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu :cool:

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

[rogue]

So? Many traditionalist recount stories of how grand master X defeated 20 assasins without breaking a sweat. Most of us live vicariously through others to a certain extent, the difference is that the MMA crowd can really view the fights, critique it and see where a fighter went wrong or right, where all we traditionalist have are third hand stories and analysis of Kung Fu movies.

Read the Pride thread and look for how much analysis is done by the guys who study ground fighting. They're where the traditionalist should be.

[reemul]

Cuz nobody makes movies about two guys rolling around on the ground.

Think about it. When was the last time you went to go see a movie about BJJ, or starring a BJJ guy, and no matter how many UFC, or NHB you win they'll never make as much as say Jackie Chan, or Jet, just to name a few. No wonder Kung fu guys don't care about the UFC or NHB, they go were the money is.

ha ha ha

[KnightSabre]

Yeah I guess in the movies they like to use moves and styles that look good rather than moves that work.;)

[jjj]

BJJ can be ineffective if:

1) Your takedowns are ineffective.
2) Your conditioning is lacking.
3) your opponent knows BJJ.

No argument from me.

>>But just like the ninja craze of the 80's and Napolean Bonapart, they both meet their Waterloos<<

Kung Fu was made popular by David Carradine and Bruce Lee. BJJ was made popular by many fighters using it and demonstrating it's effectiveness. Just a thought.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

[Subitai]

What's up HG brother?

Don't let it get to you. You already know what works in given situations.

This fact is true: The NHB and MMA guys fighting at the TOP of the contests are the BEST (i.e. masters) at what they do.( Because it is new and ever-improving and evolving) That's great, it make the world more interesting.

So for sure they are the best at what they do...But no Gung Fu fighter ie. master (considered at the top of his field) has fought. NOT ONE. Perhaps they would loose, im not doubting the possiblity in either direction.

Let's look at it this way, before NHB came most full contact trained for primarily stand up. Given that situation, if EVERYONE was still required to STAY STANDING up the TOP field would
be different. So credit the grapplers strengths.

When a Gracie looses, it doesn't mean he represents HIS entire style and that BJJ lost. Hes just a fighter that lost,not his style. Same with Kung Fu, Karate, TKD or any style.

Some guys I'd like to have seen fight:

Korean: Hee Li Cho (spelling?) That SOB could fold a HVY bag in half. OH My goodness, one hit!

I don't think most MMA would try to trade blows with someone like him. They'd difuse him by taking him down. But just that fact that you have to totally avoid someones area and give it allot of respect says MUCHO.

Chinese: Shi Guo Lin or De Yang or De Ching or guys like that. I'm not saying they'd win automatically. They have just as much chance to be taken out by ground work. But I doubt any modern MMA guy would stand up fight them. HELL no!

Anyone who knows anything about real street fights will tell you that it is rare to have it totally straight up and fair matched in a perfect sureal setting. IT"S not, ONE SUCKER PUNCH AND BAM...I don't care who you are or what you know.

The Octagon is allot to experience: I know from personal experience. Travel, jet lag, crappy food, accomodations, theft of your training gear mid week. Gambling, prositutes being offered to you. The Mafia(certain country for sure), have to adjust to new altittude (ie oxygen content). All these things happened to me and or team mates. Basically the overall exerpience was not like any REAL street fights that i've ever had.

That's the plain truth, if anyone who's never actually been in there starts speculating about how real NHB and MMA experiences are, then they are doing just that....speculating.

Je Lei, don't let it get to you brother. Self control.

"O"

[count]

Excellent post!Ï

[Archangel]

Obviously you didn't get my point. I have never beaten 2 Kung Fu martial artists at once, I was being facetious so I could illustrate the fact that anecedotal information over the internet is not that reliable. That is why BJJ people will use the MMA as an example for their arguments, it is not hearsay, it's something that we can all see.

The truth is, modern MMA tournaments have exposed several weaknesses of BJJ - lack of standup and proper takedowns. However it took cross trained athletes years of study and practice to finally find the key. Saying that BJJ is innefective is udderly wrong considering its past dominance and what it took to defeat it.