Is this move actually fatal?

[IronFist]

You always see it in movies... the move where the guy twists the other guy's head and then the other guy dies. Usually it's done from behind. The guy puts one palm on the upper back of his head, and the other hand goes with the palm on the chin and the fingers along the cheeks. Then he pushes each hand in opposite directions and they make a snaping noise and the guy dies.

Is that legit?

IronFist

[Judge Pen]

I couldn't say. I practice a TMA and it's too deadly to do outside of a form.

[Chang Style Novice]

It's probably theoretically possible to snap someones neck by twisting the head sideways, but in practice I'll bet neck muscles tense up awfully fast making it extremely hard to get the head to twist far enough.

Keep in mind that when hanging someone to snap the neck, gallows are usually built considerably off the ground, and a lot of slack is permitted on the noose, so the body drops several feet before motion is stopped and the spinal cord severed by the wieght of the body. This is because if the body didn't drop very far, the force wouldn't be enough to break the neck, and the hangee would spend a minute or more strangling to death - the neck muscles are strong enough to support the entire weight of the body.

[Merryprankster]

Hi!

There is a strong possibility that some people on here will tell you it's easy to snap somebody's neck!

These people are also retards.

That is all.

[SifuAbel]

The way you see it in the movies most times is nowhere near enough. The hands on face at arms length thing wouldn't have enough force. There are ways to hyperextend the neck. But this IS usually a hard feat if the person is expecting it. You'd have to distract with another hit in order to losen the neck enough to do a quick and very powerful twist from a head lock or crank. And, the side head lock is not a candidate. A front or back neck crank is better.

Hey, somebody pass me the cookies I just tossed thinking about this one.

Its possible but NOT easy. :p

[Raatra]

Whats up ironfist...

I wonder about this alot too. Ive learned a few neck breaks back in my Koppojutsu days. If you arent familiar with the style its basically a subsystem that focuses primarily on the methods bone breaking.
Most of the neck breaks i learned involved striking the chin or side of the face with great force, i.e. with the knee or elbow, once the head was torqued into a very specific position. I cant recall the type of neck snap you are talking of ever being taught, but i dont think it would work. Mostly because of the great force needed to over come the resistance of the neck muscles in order to break the neck. In Koppojutsu, almost everytime we learned a neck break, it was usually the result of locking the neck in place then striking at a very specific angle with the full wieght of the body being used for power, as in a full rotation elbow strike or a knee.

[old jong]

I think a "good" chiro could kill you by snapping your neck easyly if he wanted to!...;)

[Chang Style Novice]

What does work is punching through the ribcage, grabbing the heart, and tearing it out of the chest to show it to the victim right before he collapses.

We practice this technique live in class at 100% all the time. Then sometimes we go out for a beer together. You do have to take a couple of weeks to recover, though, so it's not on the schedule regularly. The beer, I mean.

[ShifuBinks]

When I was in eighth grade some kid who was a lot smaller than me started messing with me...pushing me around, trying to start something. Next I did two of the dumbest things imaginable...first I grabbed him by his collar and swung him head first into a locker. That was my first mistake. Then, feeling like I had won the fight I turned my back and started walking away...this kid runs up behind me, wraps his hands around my forehead and jerks my head back sharply. Fortunately, I was not hurt but my body followed immediately and this little kid brought me down with no trouble whatsoever. A teacher saw it and broke it up...later on the teacher explained that he had been in the marines or he was a seal or something I don't really remember but they had taught him that it was very easy to kill people this way...and honestly I think me training in ninjutsu might have helped because I instinctively knew to go with this move and not try to resist...

OK OK I know what everyone's thinking this guy probably just got his @$$ beat a lot worse than he is making it sound but just think, if I were going to lie about this fight, wouldnt I say something like "Yeah I was fighting the captain of the wrestling team and was tooling him until his girlfriend jumped on my back, yanked my head back, took me down, then had sex with me..."?

[neigung]

Whatever, dude.:confused:

[ShifuBinks]

I was afraid some detective on here might figure out that I was lying...good work "Encyclopedia Nei"...I'm just some loser who has nothing better to do than come on here and make up stories about how some little dude beat me up in 8th grade...

For anyone who is generally interested in this technique the teacher told me this is an easy way to kill people and that he learned it in the marines, I don't know I guess he could have been lying but what does someone who is not a martial arts teacher stand to gain from telling teenagers that a non lethal technique is actually lethal?

[neigung]

You're being overly defensive.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

ill say. calm down man, deep breaths. we are all friends here

*shifts eyes*

[ShifuBinks]

Call me overly defensive, how dare you? Oh no you're right, I guess none of that stuff actually happened I probably just imagined it, because as you know I did a lot of drugs in middle school, being from Sykesville Middle; a big party campus and I was in a fraternity.

I'm just curious as to why you don't believe my story...

[anton]

it was a pretty belieavable story, everyone gets in fights at school... a lot of kids get SERIOUSLY injured in school fights, and its common for teachers to tell kids stuff like that (whether true or not) to discourage them from fighting... Hence there's nothing unbelievable about it... which is why people were confused when you assumed someone was not going to believe you. This was compounded when you got defensive about it... When I read through the actual story i assumed it was true but after reading from "OK OK..." onwards in this thread, I'm starting to wonder myself.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

yeah its not that we dont belive you, you're getting majorly paranoid. I remember the good old days of primary school fights, when people could bash each other in the face and it wouldnt hurt because a 4 year olds fist is not a scary thing :D

[Liokault]

Hmmmm I'm not sure about this but if the person was unaware that the neck break was about to happen (as is the senario in the films) then its more belivable.

From what i remember there is not much physically stoping the neck rotate to far as oposed to seperating by hanging.

[Ryu]

LOL @ the 8th grade "navy seal"!!

:D Why on earth would you believe that an 8th grade kid (literally about 13-14 years old) would have any "marine" training whatsoever???

I believe your story about the fight, but you've had your leg pulled if you think this little kid was a "seal." :D

HS can be rough. I got into so many fights through school I stopped counting.
Thank God for growing up.
:)

Ryu

[Stranger]

Ryu,

I thnk he was trying to wrie that the teacher had been a SEAL or marine.

PS When you refer to a US Naval commando, they are called a SEAL (all capitals), not a seal, as in an aquatic mammal, or Seal, as in the pop singer. It might not seem like much a difference to the laymen, but they take it very seriously.

[ShifuBinks]

ill say. calm down man, deep breaths. we are all friends here

If I came <gasp> off sounding defensive <gasp> or out of breath <gasp> when I <gasp> <gasp> made my last couple of posts then I must have used the wrong font...or it might have had something to do with the fact that I was typing on my friends computer and my friend is from Planet Spaceball. Maybe I just need to do more cardio....

I was just providing Ironfist with a relevant story and when someone else questioned this story's validity I tried to assure Ironfist and anyone else interested that this story was indeed true.


PS When you refer to a US Naval commando, they are called a SEAL (all capitals), not a seal, as in an aquatic mammal, or Seal, as in the pop singer. It might not seem like much a difference to the laymen, but they take it very seriously.

Thank you for pointing this out to me. No offense intended I was just in a hurry as I typed that first post and as Hisatsu pointed out I was running out of breath from typing.

[ShifuBinks]

LOL @ the 8th grade "navy seal"!!

Well he wasn't actually a SEAL, but he did know their moves...he had learned them through a correspondence course that he saw in Black Belt. They told him this move was lethal so he tried it on me the next day. :D

I actually was thinking some people might interpret it this way as I did not make it very clear which one was the one with the training...the kid just pulled the move out of his @$$, the teacher said he had really learned it...

[Merryprankster]

I don't see what's so unbelievable about the story. Totally plausible.

[Ryu]

Oops. I misunderstood. :)

Ryu

[CaptinPickAxe]

I know its easy to break a neck by dislocation-by-elongation.

[old jong]

It is fatal when done by Bolo Yeung!...;)

[Oso]

are we talking snapping the neck so the head flops around or just cracking the vertibrae enough so it hurts like hell?;)

[neigung]

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. MA's contain dozens, if not hundreds of working techniques designed to break limbs (arms, etc.). Why wouldn't a neck break, if done correctly, work?

[Oso]

the problem w/ 'neck breaks' is that you can only discuss them in theory. I've been shown the angles and such from someone I trust to have the knowledge but other than fitting in to the position there is no way to practice it. so, if you get the drop on a guy like 'in the movies' there are many other options that can be practiced much more realistically....



and somebody give Ironfist a 'post per day' limit :)

[Merryprankster]

Dislocating is really hard. You can pull a muscle pretty easily, but causing REAL injury is going to be difficult.

Try this--go to a store and buy a whole roasting chicken.

Now, tear it apart without tools. Try it with a turkey.

I realize the leverage is different, but it's hard, awkward and unreliable.

[Oso]

that's what I was trying to say.

if I get the drop on a guy from behind I'd probably stomp the knee from behind to lower him a bit and then attempt to maybe grab the head and put an elbow behind the ear.

or take some re-wire and wrap it around his neck really tight and twist the ends together and then sit back and drink a beer.

[Serpent]

MP - great training methods! Live dislocation practice with a turkey!

To partly answer the question, you can crack vertebra by snapping the neck sideways violently if you catch someone by surprise. You can dislocate vertebra by elongating the neck if you catch someone by surprise. However, both of these things will not necessarily result in broken vertebra and broken vertebra will not necessarily result in a broken spinal cord which = death.

If the person is not surprised and tenses their neck muscles all the above are much harder unless you're scary strong. And even then it's hard to do. Sure, you can seriously damage someone's neck, but killing them with a neck break is very hard.

You know the movie neck break that I like best? It's the one where the guy lowers himself quietly from the ceiling and wraps his legs around his victim's head and snaps the neck with a quick thrust of the hips! ;)

Breaking a neck is very hard indeed. Just learn the Vulcan Neck Pinch and use that instead.

[joedoe]

I have a friend who is a chiropractor and he assures me that to be able to break the neck and sever the spinal cord, the person has to be pretty much completely relaxed. I think you would have a better chance if you picked them up and dropped them on their head.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by ShifuBinks
he was a seal or something I don't really remember but they had taught him that it was very easy to kill people this way...and honestly I think me training in ninjutsu might have helped because I instinctively knew to go with this move and not try to resist...

LOL. If bobo and FU-pow don't jump on this one, I don't know what the world is coming to, after all the slack they gave SD.

I think you need to reword your story, it is coming out badly.

[neigung]

Or we could go the traditional route and start experimenting on prisoners.

[ShifuBinks]

I just thought of something...one time at the dojo after class I was reading Black Belt or Inside Kung Fu and in between ads for "The Speed Man" and "Tennessee Mountain Man Discovers Fountain of Youth" I read an article about some dude who hurt his neck very badly in training...the guy had him in a triangle choke or something and he wouldn't tap out I really don't remember but next time I'm at the school I will try to find the article and relay the info to you guys...



I think you need to reword your story, it is coming out badly

Well you were not my target audience so please don't lose any more sleep over how I worded my story.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by ShifuBinks
Well you were not my target audience so please don't lose any more sleep over how I worded my story.
Everyone that reads these boards is your target audience. I could have just made fun of your story, but I didn't. I just kindly assumed you worded it badly. But no worries, I'm not loosing sleep over it. I was actually trying to prevent you some grief from others.

[Yung Apprentice]

When I was in eighth grade some kid

So this "kid" was a marine in the eighth grade? Or was he held back 8 years? So as a ninja in the eigth grade you fought a fellow eight grader who happened to be a marine??????????:confused:

[themeecer]

I hate when I get attacked by ninjas. I remember one time when these 3 ninjas jumped out and ate my homework and made me late for class. :D

[Chang Style Novice]

The lesson here is to write carefully and clearly and to read carefully and clearly.

[IronFist]

Yes, the one I'm talking about is the one that Bolo Yeung does to kill that guy at the end of the match in Bloodsport.

I guess if the guy has ot be completely relaxed, you could knock him out first. I dunno.

IronFist

[IronFist]

But if the guy has to be relaxed, it seems easy you could just come up behind someone who's not expecting it and do it and kill them that easily? That would suck.

IronFist