Hendrick What is Your Cho Family Wing Chun Like ?

[FIRE HAWK]

What kind of stances and footwork does it use ? What kind of punchs does it use Phoenix Eye fist, Ginger Fist, Arrow Fist , ? what kind of principles and concepts and forms does it have ? is your Wing Chun like Fukien White Crane , Hung Gar , Choy Li Fut , or what kind of other Wing Chun does it resemble Yip Man , Yuen Kay San , Pao Fa lien , Chi Sim , Guo Lao Pien San , Wing Chun ,ect ?

[Phenix]

Fire hawk,
What kind of stances and footwork does it use ? What kind of punchs does it use Phoenix Eye fist, Ginger Fist, Arrow Fist , ? what kind of principles and concepts and forms does it have ? is your Wing Chun like Fukien White Crane , Hung Gar , Choy Li Fut , or what kind of other Wing Chun does it resemble Yip Man , Yuen Kay San , Pao Fa lien , Chi Sim , Guo Lao Pien San , Wing Chun ,ect ?

[old jong]

Here!... (http://www.wingchunkuen.com/what/systems/choga.html) By the man himself! ;)

[Phenix]

Originally posted by old jong
Here!... (http://www.wingchunkuen.com/what/systems/choga.html) By the man himself! ;)


Ohh, that is Rene's website.

[old jong]

But,you wrote the article!...;)

[Phenix]

Originally posted by old jong
But,you wrote the article!...;)

ohh that hendrik. not the Hendrick.
and there is another one Chango claim to be blancrup.
and there is another one doing San francisco style WCK which Joy and John knows.

So which is which?:confused:

and who is Fire HawK? a man or a historian or a Bird?

[old jong]

So,it takes only a small letter "C" to make a difference?....;) And "The!"...:rolleyes:
Interresting article Hendrix!...:D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by old jong
So,it takes only a small letter "C" to make a difference?....;) And "The!"...:rolleyes:
Interresting article Hendrix!...:D


You means this Hendrix?


this one

http://entertainment.msn.com/Artist/Default.aspx?artist=101301

who wrote bunch of Kuen Kuit?

[old jong]

Wow! Nobody could chi sau with a guitar like this hendrix!...:cool:

[Phenix]

Originally posted by old jong
Wow! Nobody could chi sau with a guitar like this hendrix!...:cool:

sure, and certainly, he is a fujian sourthern shao lin monk who has a woodern dummy beside his bed to chi sau and carry the woodern dummy every where and chanting the shao lin monk prayer... and kuen Kuit..... and Chan

so he comes to america to hide away from the Qing. thus, he grow hair and speak english.. and replace his woodern dummy with guital... you watch the Jakie Chan's movie? the one jakie come to usa to fight the qing? that is the way aha aha.....
Hey bro, over throw the qing and return to the Ming !

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by Firehawk

Hendrick What is Your Cho Family Wing Chun Like ?

What kind of stances and footwork does it use ? What kind of punchs does it use Phoenix Eye fist, Ginger Fist, Arrow Fist , ? what kind of principles and concepts and forms does it have ? is your Wing Chun like Fukien White Crane , Hung Gar , Choy Li Fut , or what kind of other Wing Chun does it resemble Yip Man , Yuen Kay San , Pao Fa lien , Chi Sim , Guo Lao Pien San , Wing Chun ,ect ?

-------------------------------------------

Quote:

like many "religious scholars", those who claim the most often demonstrate the least ...

As far as Hendrik goes, I don't think he loses his temper much at all.

I do find it annoying that he presents thinking out loud and unsubstantiated assertions as deep insights, or tries to come across as an expert in areas where he is obviously not, but I'd say it's generally people like you and me that get irate, not him.

--------------------------------------------

Qriginally posted by Hendrik

ohh that hendrik. not the Hendrick.
and there is another one Chango claim to be blancrup.

So which is which?

and who is Fire HawK? a man or a historian or a Bird?

-----------

IT is very interesting phenomenon that when Buddhist teaching where shown here that some people don't feel it is necessary. (which is fine and healty since no one has to agree with everything for discussion) And, Some will go as far as high jacking the Buddhism teaching, in the sametime sending message " we know it better, we inherit the Chan.". But then when ask about where does those "inheritant" from ? from who and what is it? no one can answer and back to personal attack......

----------------------------------------------


Hello Hendrik,

FireHawk has some questions for you.

But you go as far as high jacking the Buddism teaching, in the sametime you try to come across as an expert in areas where you are obviously not. In truth you back to personal attack to Chango and Firehawk. Are there any reasons for you to do that to them? Please explain yourself!

[Phenix]

RH,

You are always so right. at least you think you are.


you are my sunshine and greatest good knowledge advisor who always knows how to inteprete and twist anything to negative side.

greatest Dao police of the world!

Sure you win!
:D

PS-- When I become Buddha, certainly you help me alots in understanding about ego. see if everyone agree with me, then I wont learn right? Thanks, truly. bow.

"the good is my teacher the bad is my suppliment." --- Dao De Ching. wihtout teacher and suppliment how can one grow?

[Train]

Hi Firehawk,

I say you should just drop finding Info on the Cho Ga WC style. Those guys are not sincere about anything. They only put down other lineages and babble about White crane and emie. ohhh yeah, those guys preach Chan all the time but are not humble on the things they practise. I say, stay away....... before they brainwash you to sell flowers at the airport...... :)






I'm out

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Train
Hi Firehawk,

I say you should just drop finding Info on the Cho Ga WC style. Those guys are not sincere about anything. They only put down other lineages and babble about White crane and emie. ohhh yeah, those guys preach Chan all the time but are not humble on the things they practise. I say, stay away....... before they brainwash you to sell flowers at the airport...... :)



I'm out


wow. great Daoist, you sure has learn all the greatest Dao of Chinese Culture revolution ! (if one has a type writer then one must be pro USA and western and agaisnt.... and must be prosecute........ so lots and lots of professors has to go to sweep street ...) :D


PS.

I wonder you grow up watching Saturday night life or Chinese Culture revolution? I watch saturday night life and love it.

Oh and pink floyed too.

We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control...:D

[Phenix]

OK enough joking and fun.

FIre Hawk.


There is only Cho Hong-Choy's Wing Chun Kuen or Cho family's Wing Chun Kuen, or Yik Kam's WCK if one trace back to red boat.
and all has been written there in Rene's website.



There is no Hendrick's Cho family Wing Chun kuen. Thus, I make fun of myself. So, appology if you guys take me too serious. honestly, I love saturday night life. Life is too short why get so uptight?

[FIRE HAWK]

When I asked about Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun Rene kindly told me what he thought about it and what it was like . I just wondered how it was different or the same as other Wing Chun Systems I have seen the Yik Kam and Rene s website and other things about Cho Ga Wing Chun , but what I was wondering is how it really looks or works what is it similar to ,since you have been practicing Cho family Wing Chun for many many years I thought I would ask you .

[Phenix]

Fire Hawk,

Since I am not Rene, so different people communicate differently.


there is no Hendrik's cho family wck, it doesn't exist.

since WCK is WCK. SLT is SLT. I don't see any big different in the theme of art whether it is from GM Ip Man, GM YKS, GM Fung, or GM Cho On.

in additional, You have post some post about Cho family for past few months ago, and I remember even sandman ask me some questions, if memory serve. since there is discussion in that post, I hope that you also read them and have some ideas.

May I ask what lineage of WCk do you practice?

[FIRE HAWK]

I am a Wing Chun Fanatic I like all Wing Chun ,Wing Chun has become one of my passions I like reading about the history of Wing Chun but I like knowing about its forms and how the techniques and things are applied in all systems of Wing Chun . I wish that I could learn every version of Wing Chun that there is Yip Man , Yuen Kay San , Pan Nam , Pao Fa Lien, Hung Fa Yi , Chi Sim , Guo Lo Pien San , Vietnam Wing Chun, Cho Family Wing Chun , Yip Kin Wing Chun , Yueng Fook Hung Suen Wing Chun, ect.. But this is not possible for a person to learn all these Wing Chun versions . If it was not for my health problems I would try to travel long distances to learn some of these versions of Wing Chun . So with my bad health problems one should be lucky to learn what Wing Chun is close to them were they live in my case I hope tobe learning Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and I hope Chi Sim Weng Chun and maybe Yip Man Wing Chun there is also a srtange version of Chan Wah Shun Wing Chun here in Dayton , Ohio were I live . At the present time I am not taking any Wing Chun because of my bad health problems , but I will sooner or later learn Wing Chun .So what I do at the present time is try to learn everything I can about all the Wing Chun versions .

[Phenix]

Originally posted by FIRE HAWK
At the present time I am not taking any Wing Chun because of my bad health problems , .


may I ask what is your health problem? or you can pm me.

fighting, I can't help because I am bankrupt. ;) . health, I might have the skill to be able to teach you some health exersice for help. and I might be not.

see, wck has both side. and may be you want to learn and research about the health training of wck instead of the fighting fighting of wck. why wasting energy and life in fighting and following ever running water type of he says she says.... when having a good health and living a great life is the highest goal. and one can start learn wck at any instant. the other side of the coin --- the health training. IMHO.


start with the core of wck -----"punch execute from heart." so transform the heart first. Open the heart, That is about HOPE, and faith. ..the sun.



Help others with wck to live a better life is feeling better then drop another top fighter within few second.( in order to satisfy that nonsense i am number one , my sifu number one ego, but not knowing has already create a resenment karma which one has to pay back. ) --- a buddhist thought.

[planetwc]

It can be a lot of fun to look into all the different Wing Chun branches. It is no substitute for training, as much of what you read you won't really truly get till you get into the system and FEEL how the shapes of the hands, your structure, the amount of strength/tension you use etc.

When you can experience aliveness and free reflexive Wing Chun hands it is a truly fun experience--more than you'll ever get from books and the internet.

In terms of study, your best bet is to find the best local instructor for you in terms of a match of personality and temperament as well as teaching skill and martial ability.

It wasn't clear from your previous postings on your medical situation if you had the ability to travel and visit places (even if via wheelchair). If so, you could then see if you can work something out with a teacher to participate to the level you are able or at least observe the class in action.

Pick a school and instructor that can work within your needs and stick with them. As you are in Dayton, perhaps folks like Chango Noaks can help you down this path.

So if you can get out of the house and travel---set up some visits with the local instructors. Call ahead and explain your situation and see what response you get.

Good luck!

[FIRE HAWK]

My health problem in 1998 I had what is called a rectual prolasp that is when the bowl comes out your backend so I had to have major reconstructive bowl surgery , this problem has left me with having to use the bathroom all the time sometimes 9 times a day on the other hand the other problem is I get plugged up full of stole and cant use the bathroom at all for many days the longest i went with out useing the bathroom was 9 days , I also have what is known as iritable bowl syndrome , so it is difficult for me to go many places like stores .

[Phenix]

Fire Hawk,

You might want to try the six sound healing art of Ma Li-Dang.
Since this art can be done laying down. sitting, or standing.
the six sound circulate the body qi and re build the body. This is a good art.

With the background of this six sound healing art, one can benifit when one doing SLT. Because things get more natural.

If I want to add something to WCK. I will un hesitately add the six sound. Because SLT is too deep to understand and operate for beginer. and this art teaches the proper way of natural. In addition, this art has been in the chinese history for more then thousand years, Daosit use it, Buddhist use it, TCM doctors use it for century and century. and Shao Lin use it for healling thier internal injury.

So, my thought is this is a great art for the pre-SLT. with this art we can cut down the heart or circulatory problem due to lock up the chest wrongly while doing SLT or woodern dummy...

[desertwingchun2]

Originally posted by Phenix
OK enough joking and fun.

FIre Hawk.


There is only Cho Hong-Choy's Wing Chun Kuen or Cho family's Wing Chun Kuen, or Yik Kam's WCK if one trace back to red boat.
and all has been written there in Rene's website.



There is no Hendrick's Cho family Wing Chun kuen. Thus, I make fun of myself. So, appology if you guys take me too serious. honestly, I love saturday night life. Life is too short why get so uptight?

Um, actually it is stated that Cho family's WCK uses the SLT form of Yik Kam but has incorporated Choy Li Fut forms and weapons into their wing chun. These were incorporated to create what the Cho family considered a complete system. Thus teaching some Yik Kam wing chun fused with lots of Cho family kung fu.

With this understanding one can see clearly that there is a difference between Yik Kam's wing chun from the Red Boats and what is documented to be Cho family's wing chun.

BTW, the recognized inheritor of the Cho family wing chun can be found in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. If memory serves he is currently teaching Aikido. If I can find the link for his website I will post it. If anyone else has it please share.

-David

[reneritchie]

It's utterly amazing, though not suprising, that so many posts could be made on this thread without any (real) attempts to answer the originating question -- only perpetuate senseless grudges and make personal slights.

Anyway...

Firehawk,

There are several 'flavors' of Cho family MA out there. Prior to their WCK contact, they had their own family/village system which included Choy Lai Fut and various 'Southern Shaolin' (typical catch-all for Hung Kuen, Weng Chun (not Chi Sim), and other popular systems of the time). To this day, you can still find people who learned these from the Cho, teaching them on their own or as 'WCK' with some elements of Wing Chun. They look like Hung Ga or Choy Lai Fut, and have quite often gone their own way.

This bleeds into the second group which consists of people who learned some WCK elements from the Cho, but (perhaps because of the ancestral 'secrecy' of MA) didn't learn the full sets. Some of these people have also gone their own way, including learning other WCK and trying to conform to the popular WCK mould (3 sets, luk sao, etc.) These tend to look more like Yip Man WCK with some Hung or Choy or other style elements thrown in, and some remnant Cho flavor.

Those who learned Yik Kam's WCK from the Cho (Cho Chuen's descendant in China, Cho Hung-Choy -> Hendrik in Malaysia) do SLT as one set with 4 sections. The first section is analogus to what other branches consider Siu Lien/Nim Tao, the second and third sections (though less similar to other branches) serve the purpose of Chum Kiu & Biu Jee, and the fourth contains the essential cycles (found as San Sik in the Sum Nung system).

The Cho SLT has more content than those typically seen in terms of footwork and hand work (more different types and kinds) and tends to be more repetitive (do the same movement 3 times, over and over again).

It's a very compelling set to watch, even hypnotic when someone of skill performs it. Its very complicated, almost essoteric in a way.

I've seen both Hendrik's and an almost indentical set performed on the streets of Guangzhou by someone from Chu Chuen's line, which is a good indicator they have tried to preserve the set, and hopefully they will continue to do so.

[Phenix]

Hi Rene,

Thanks.

I was chatting with Gene Ching the other day about may be releasing some old documents....



I would like to add that in Cho family there are two type of WCK.

Those are Cho Shun's WCk and Cho Dak Sing's WCK.
Cho shun is the father of Cho Dak sing who was missed in complete Wing Chun and Wong Kiew Kit's answer and questions. if memory serve.

Cho Shun's WCK followed YiK Kam's WCK. and Cho Dak Sing's evol and grow widely. Today's general Cho family wck is closer to partial of Cho DAk Sing's wck then Cho Shun's wck.

and for some , in the past 8 years has evol even widely, and I think it is better to place their own name rather then still called it Cho family...

[Phenix]

BTW, the recognized inheritor of the Cho family wing chun can be found in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. If memory serves he is currently teaching Aikido. If I can find the link for his website I will post it. If anyone else has it please share.




Please share!

So, we all can see who is the recognized inheritor of the Cho family wing Chun who teach Aikido.