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View Full Version : Mr. Nemo is always first with Tyson vs. Nielson results



Mr. Nemo
10-13-2001, 05:11 AM
Not much of a surprise, I guess, but...

From Yahoo!

No KO, but Tyson Win
Mike Tyson needed six rounds Saturday before stopping Brian Nielsen, the longest fight the former heavyweight champion has had since losing to Evander Holyfield five years ago. Tyson bloodied the Dane in the second round and knocked him down in the third. But Nielsen fought gamely until the referee finally ended the fight because of his swollen left eye.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20011013/imdf13102001181950a.jpg

SevenStar
10-13-2001, 06:01 AM
****, and I bet on Neilson...

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

Grappling-Insanity
10-13-2001, 06:05 AM
Yes I knew it!!! :D

Martial Joe
10-13-2001, 06:42 AM
Do you guys think tyson could get back to the way he used to be?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Mr. Nemo
10-13-2001, 06:44 AM
"Do you guys think tyson could get back to the way he used to be?"

I don't think he could be that good again, but I think he's good enough to win back the title.

Martial Joe
10-13-2001, 07:00 AM
How good was that white dude in that pic?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Mr. Nemo
10-13-2001, 07:00 AM
He had the best record in the heavyweight division.

Martial Joe
10-13-2001, 07:05 AM
Thanks...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Tvebak
10-13-2001, 11:52 AM
How many of the fights was sent on tv? from what i saw i think they started sending the fights very late, so did you guys see for instance Kessler Vs Medez, or Calzaghe Vs Mc Intyre?
those fights were good, Tyson Vs Nielsen was more a question of how long Brian could hold on.
They said that he was unable to see with one of his eyes, so i understand why he quitted.

qeySuS
10-13-2001, 06:28 PM
heh i loved the danish commentator

"löööööövehjerte!!"

Free thinkers are dangerous!

chen zhen
10-13-2001, 07:08 PM
why would he say "løvehjerte"? weird..

anyway, did the people here on the forums who saw the fight have to pay to see it, like here in denmark? or else, i'm gonna be ****ED OFF! :mad:

qeySuS
10-13-2001, 07:53 PM
heh of course they have to pay, here in Iceland there's a station that handles all boxing matches it costs around 30$ a month (has all sorts of sporting events in that package). In USA i'm guessing it's on PPV, and that's propably around 20-30$ for only the tyson show.

Free thinkers are dangerous!

Tvebak
10-13-2001, 09:36 PM
Isnt it Damgård whos is called løvehjerte?

SifuAbel
10-13-2001, 10:33 PM
Nemo is always first with the scores. Which means he must have a TV set in each room and twenty VCR's or he just plain never leaves the house. Ah!, To be young with no worries, I miss your age. Enjoy it while you have it.

Are you immortal?

sifuabel@yahoo.
com

Spark
10-15-2001, 09:04 PM
Mr. Nemo is third with results from Hopkins v. Trinidad! :D haha

I don't think tyson will ever be as good as he was, and I don't think he will win back the title. If he fights Lewis, lewis will handle him easily - like he did with Holyfield who beat tyson.

There's some good boxers in heavyweight that could take tyson no problem.

Mr. Nemo
10-15-2001, 09:20 PM
That's what I thought until Rahman showed us that Lennox can be beaten. I think Tyson could take Lennox now, but if Rahman keeps the title that fight may never happen.

Lennox, Rahman, and Klitchko(sp?) could all concievably beat Tyson, but Tyson could also concievably beat them.

JWTAYLOR
10-15-2001, 09:22 PM
Just backing up the Lewis comment above.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

Spark
10-16-2001, 01:31 AM
It's true. Yes I might eat my words, but I doubt it. Would you have gone on about how great Buster Douglas was after he KO'D Tyson? Of course not, Douglas was mediocre at best - so is Rahman - he got lucky, just like Douglas. Lewis will be prepared (I know, I know, he should have in the first place), and will handle Rahman easily. THis guy is getting way too much credit if you ask me. I'll give you Klitchko (haha sp. with me too) though. Him and Lewis I think could easily beat Tyson.

Mr. Nemo
10-16-2001, 02:25 AM
It's true Lewis was unprepared, and that played a part in his loss, but it didn't play the entirety of it. If he'd been KO'd in the 10th, you could say he was out of shape, but when you get KO'd in the 5th, it means you have a weakness as a fighter, which Rahman exploited.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Rahman for the rematch. A lot of guys instantly get better when they win the title, I think that'll be the case with him. I think Rahman has a 60% chance of winning, Lewis 40%.

thekuntawman
10-16-2001, 02:37 AM
i agree that rahman does not suck.

he is strong and quick, and a slick boxer. but people look at the body of a boxer, and how crisp are his movment, which rahman has a "weakness" (which mean nothing). thats like saying butterbean sucks, he doesnt he was quick, he hit hard, and he has accuracy, but people look at his body and the wet noodles he fights.

rahman saw enough action that he can give a good fight to anyone, and he got one more thing, and that is courage. show me a fighter that you cannot intimidate, and i will show you a long fight you will have to go the distance or knock him out cold.

yes lewis was clumsy and lazy. but hes always been that way. rahman was just quick enough and slick enough to do something about it. but i believe he will beat tyson.

in my opinions, tyson needs to go to a trainer he will listen to, like kevin rooney, and forget all that white man black man ****. kevin is the only one alive that knows what cus tamato taught him. poor mike, he is not even smart enough to remember his own fighting art and instead have to be trained! did you notice how the martial artists is let go after a while, and attends fights by himself, but the boxer needs to be told what to do? thats why such a few fighters become trainers. it takes a gift (or to be told you can do it). every black belter will go out at some time and teach or fight with no person in his corner.

Spark
10-16-2001, 03:22 PM
Ok, I'll take it back Rahman does not SUCK. But a champion he is not. I think my comparason to Douglas is pretty accurate. Think back to before this fight ... Did anyone give Rahman a chance? Hell no. Lewis was going to walk all over this guy. Did anyone give Buster Douglas a chance? Hell no! Lewis KO in the 5th can easily be explained (but not excused! Don't think that's what i'm doing) by the fact that the fight was in S. Africa, which was thousands of feet above sea level - high altitudes thin your blood and make you tired, as well as there is less oxygen to take in. Rahman had been training in this enviro for over a month. Lewis showed up to train a week before the fight. Lewis' performance was what he deserved for the way he handled the preparation of this fight. But put these two on a level playing field (and i realize this should have been the case in the first place) and Lewis is easily the superior boxer - he's a PUGILIST SPECIALIST!! Rahman has a right hook. Just like Tua has only his left hook. That won't get you far. And my last point about Douglas and how he was getting mad props after beating Tyson - how many title defences did he make? Enough said.

wu_de36
10-16-2001, 03:39 PM
Would one of you polar bear loving ice fisherman please translate "løvehjerte" :)

no flame intended... i'm mostly norwegian.

scotty1
10-16-2001, 04:14 PM
Whens the Lewis/ Rachman rematch?

Spark
10-16-2001, 04:55 PM
November 17th!!!! :)

scotty1
10-17-2001, 03:55 PM
Tanks. :)

Lost_Disciple
10-18-2001, 02:04 AM
I think Tua's a bad analogy and so was Douglas.

Tua's a bad analogy cuz that guy literally only has one punch. All you gotta do to Tua is slip in and stay away from him and you're pboly going to decision him. Byrd ain't got no power, and Lewis played it 100% safe too; both of them beat Tua. Tua wasn't smart enough to adapt and to go in there with a good gameplan. To Rahman's credit he's smart enough to get a good game plan, and train hard enough to put himself on top of his game.

Remember, it was Rahman himself that noticed that Lewis wasn't doing crap to cover up- it was Rahman who adapted. Besides, Rahman was landing and causing damage with BOTH hands, according to him, he's got a powerful jab...

Douglas, is a bad comparison because there was a controversy over whether who was knocked out, who got a quick count, and all that in the first place. Douglas got lucky, Rahman got smart.

Rahman had trouble with Sanders, Tua, and Maskaev. Sanders he still managed to win- though his chin was questionable that night. He still says he was ripped off in the Tua fight; nevertheless it wasn't a total stomp like Tua was famous for at the time. Maskaev was his only decisive loss, and he admits to being out of shape on that fight.

I'm not saying Rahman's gonna win; I'm just saying don't write him off as a Douglas-like journeyman; or a 1-horse pony like Tua.

Back to the original topic, I watched the Tyson-Nielsen fight on Showtime. I didn't see any blood coming from Nielsen's cut, and the swelling didn't look THAT bad. I thought he coulda survived later on into the fight, and maybe looked for a KO once Tyson punched himself out. I personally think Tyson didn't punch himself out soon enough for Nielsen's liking & time frame; deciding to lose the match by TKO instead of suffering the punishment and losing by decision. I got mad respect for Nielsen though; good game plan.

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

Spark
10-18-2001, 05:00 PM
I see all of your points, but I just can't agree with most of them! :(

I don't give Rahman huge props for winning this fight, mostly because it wasn't Rahman's skills that won him the fight, it was Lewis' laziness. You can't deny that. Again, I reiterate, you pit these two together (Nov. 17) both in top shape, Lewis will win 90% of the time. My point with Tua was that Tua also could have landed the 'one' huge shot that would have floored Lewis. Rahman didn't break Lewis down, he already was! Lewis was heaving at the end of the first round! You can't say that was from Rahman's brilliant game plan or crisp jabs! I don't know what Rahman had to adapt to in terms of Lewis not covering up - if your opponent is not covering up, you don't adapt, you simply punch them! There's nothing special about that.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the Douglas issue. Try to see it like this. Douglas beat the champ who was dubbed as the greatest boxer of his generation. He was seen as unstoppable. Lewis, unfortunately, is merely thought of as the best in HW today. The stigma attached to Tyson at that time was far greater than Lewis ever has been. And for Douglas to go into the ring and systematically break Tyson down with HUGE combinations, and to be able to still KO him after being knocked down himself, shows me that Douglas' win was far greater than Rahmans. That being said, if Douglas could not hold onto his title for one defence, why would Rahman, who's really only great offence of the night was the right cross which KO'd, why would Rahman be any different? And you said so yourself, Rahman has had serious difficulty with boxers who aren't even title contenders!

I'm sorry, I just don't see Rahman as anything great. And you're right, he's not a 1-horse pony, I realized that after I posted it.

Anyhow, I enjoy this debate! Keep it up! Are you watching the Juda v Kostyazu fight?

chen zhen
10-18-2001, 07:43 PM
what's a polar bear loving ice fisherman?
:D
"løvehjerte" is danish for "lionheart"

Tvebak
10-18-2001, 10:51 PM
Polar bear loving ice fisherman...hvor fukked op.
Maybe i should change my name here on the forum.

Lost_Disciple
10-20-2001, 12:56 AM
Spark
See, you've got me at a disadvantage. :) I've only seen clips of the Douglas fight; I was only in middle school when it happened. I don't know how Douglas' victory looked; so i guess I can't compare.

Douglas was a sparring partner for Tyson, no?

*Showing my ignorance* Was Rahman a sparring partner for Lewis?

It would seem a guy's sparring partner would have at least a bit of an advantage.

You asked me something to the effect of "how much do you have to adapt when the guy's not covering?" Well saying "not covering" may have been the wrong description. Lewis was using distancing and looked to be using his punches to keep Rahman at bay.

Lewis kind of did the same thing with Tua- it's not like he covered up and let Tua barrage him with power shots. Tua caught him with a quick blow, but never adjusted and followed up on it. Rahman, caught him with a quick blow, and had the smarts to adjust, close the distance, and follow up on it.

At the time, Tua was supposed to be the great hope to dethrone Lewis from the crown. I remember watching highlights of that fight and just having a bad taste in my mouth.

To his credit, Rahman delivered much better than Tua did. Sure, Lewis may have been out of shape, but the strategy was similar and previously proven. So that's where I gotta give Rahman props.

There isn't really anybody out there that's screaming "champion" right now. Possible (future) exceptions are maybe Klitschko or possibly Mount Whitaker (just going on what the Ring said about him). Byrd's style is so unlike everyone else's that he also might have a shot- but his fights are pretty boring.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

arsenal_fc
10-20-2001, 02:43 AM
I don't think that Rahman is a bad fighter; I think he's mediocre. Did anyone see the trouble he had with Corrie Sanders? Even though Rahman won with a 7th round KO, he was in trouble early against that guy. Sanders himself is not championship material.

Too bad Ike Ibeabuchi lost his mind.
I think he would have been champ by now.

Hopefullly Wladimir Klitschko vs. Ray Mercer will be a good fight. That'll be on December 1.

Spark
10-21-2001, 03:25 PM
Disciple -

I am not sure about sparring partners ... maybe Arsenal knows the answer to that one. I think it can be argued that that does not necessarily make a huge difference - Vargas just beat his sparring partner, didn't Holmes beat Ali? So it can go either way.

I've seen that Douglas fight maybe four times this year. ESPN 2 has some show 'great boxing moments' or 'great sports upsets' - something like that and they broke the fight down round by round. Keep an eye out for it, you'll see how Douglas really put on an awesome performance, and it wasn't a fluke combo or anything like that.

Despite our differences, Nov. 17 is going to be a good fight, and i'm even excited for the undercards. Joppy back in action and Lothedbuea (that is the worst spelling - he was the undercard in Lewis-Rahman I).

Arsenal - Was Ike the guy Lewis was supposed to fight but he got Hepatitis B?

I think Klitscho is the future in the heavyweight. If (when!) Lewis gets his titles back, I'd rather see him fight VK, and I think Lewis has too much skill now and could handle him. But in a few years, if VK gets smoother, or a more relaxed style and not so stiff, he'll be a champ no doubt!

Lost_Disciple
10-21-2001, 10:24 PM
Spark
I'll keep an eye out for those fights. My point with the sparring partner comment wasn't to say it was a key to instant victory, but to say that it was probably an advantage at staying alive in the ring and not risking an immediate KO- but then again, nothing's definite.

To give you an idea of where Arsenal's coming from with Ike Ibeabuch. Max Kellerman, talking about Klitschko, was quoted as saying:
"...There has only been one heavyweight with potential greatness since Riddick Bowe, and that was Ike Ibeabuchi. It's not Klitschko."
Never seen the guy fight but Kellerman seems to know his stuff, eventhough he annoys me sometimes with his opinions.

Personally I disagree with Kellerman's opinion of Klitschko. What I'd like to see Klitschko do, would be to take his time. I'm not saying he should keep playing it safe with middle-tier competition. I think he should slowly work through the hopefuls that proved to be disappointments over the last few years. Top 10 guys like Tua, Holyfield (who seems to be waaay past his prime), Akinwande, Whitaker, Nielsen, Grant, Rahman (if he loses), and maybe even Ruiz.

I think Klitschko should look at himself as being possibly the next legitimate champion, not just a guy who could beat Lewis or Rahman for the belt. I don't think the lower ranked guys in the top 10 are in any way easy, but i think he could overcome them.

It'd be a good chance for him to hone his skills and build up some accredidation/reputation. On the way, some of those fights might actually be pretty big draws- earning him more fans and some money. Plus, I think Tyson's still a legitimate threat, so no sense rushing after the title if you're just going to lose it to him, or Lewis in a re-match. Also, no sense demoloshing middle-tier opposition if it's not going to improve your skills or respectability.

Taking his time with "risky" fights, and not ducking the opposition, is what the best guys in the lower weight classes do to establish themselves. Talking guys like Hopkins, Trinidad, Vargas, et al. He could really use the experience and the reputation. He does have an inkling of potential for greatness, he just has to fan those flames.

I'm just real tired of seeing guys like Grant and Tua beat some so-so opposition, get our hopes up, and then proceed to get stomped when they get in title contention. What do you think?

Gonna be some good fights coming up, even the PPV ones'll get replayed on HBO or Showtime, glad I got both. :)

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

Silumkid
10-21-2001, 10:46 PM
Finally saw this fight over the weekend replayed on HBO. Maybe it is just me, but Tyson appears to be a shadow of what he once was. Nielson's defense was, in my opinion, not so great that it should have taken Tyson as long as it did to do what damage he did do, which seemed to be little to me. That cut over Nielson's eye appears to have been from an unintentional headbutt. Somebody else made a comment about how Nielson had the best record in the heavyweight division...it didn't show that night.

I can still remember when Tyson would have taken this lop out in 95 seconds or less or else the fight was free

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

Mr. Nemo
10-22-2001, 01:17 AM
Really...I thought Tyson looked good. He looked like he was in shape, and like he was actually pacing himself. To be honest, at this point it would restore my confidence in him more to grind out a victory in later rounds, show that he won't fall apart, then another early KO. There are plenty of guys Tyson can KO quickly.

Spark
10-22-2001, 03:50 AM
were we watching the same fight??? In shape? isn't tyson like 5'10 - and he weighed in at 240! From what I saw, Neilson just sat there like a lump and took a huge beating, and when he did fight back it was the lamest attempt at offence i'd ever seen. And after that they're saying he's a legitimate contender??? The only reason it looked like he was pacing himself was because he couldn't get the job done early in the fight.

DISCIPLE - I agree with your points on VK. I don't think he's great - but I don't think the the HW division is very deep, which is why I think he's going to dominate it in 5yrs. Lewis will retire and who's left that has great skills? VK can rely on his brute strength for now, and it could even win him the title one day, but someone will come along that has all the skills and we'll him dethroned. Like I said, if i'm not mistaken, Lewis was supposed to fight IKE about 4 years ago, maybe 5, but he dropped out of it last minute.

Has anyone seen this guy Etienne or Auxerre or whatever his name is? I hear good things about him - is he a 'to be contender' ?

Mr. Nemo
10-22-2001, 04:16 AM
Tyson weighed in at 239; yes, that's the heaviest he's ever weighed in, but if you look at the weigh in pictures and the fight, it's clearly a lean 239. Tyson just didn't cut as far to get to his old "in shape" weight. Tommy Brooks wanted a heavier Tyson, and Tyson and his nutrition guy gave him what he wanted.

As for Tyson not being able to finish Nielson early; well, Nielson's tough and he kept his hands up. It was still a decisive win, and what's more, I didn't see any signs of Tyson running out of steam going into the seventh round.

Lost_Disciple
10-22-2001, 06:56 AM
Like I said before; I think Nielsen was just stretching the fight out, using just enough offense to get by, using just enough defense to survive. I think he was hoping Tyson would punch himself out, and then he could start to win by points.

I really didn't think his eye was so bad he couldn't see, I've seen a lot of guys in lighter weight classes go through a lot worse- a fight just a couple weeks ago on Showtime comes to mind, but I'm having trouble remembering specifics.

I think Nielsen realized his strategy was flawed, that Tyson wasn't gonna punch himself out (at least not in time for a point victory), and that he didn't think he had the power to knock Tyson out.

In shape or not, Tyson was heavier, more densely muscled, and throwing some hard shots that Nielsen managed to absorb. That makes me have some respect for Nielsen and also makes me give him the benefit of the doubt.

Just seemed like a bit of strategy that didn't go down as planned. I think a longer fight, with a guy who had enough power cause Tyson some damage, no accidental headbutt, and the strategy might've worked.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

Lost_Disciple
10-22-2001, 07:47 AM
Few more things about VK-

I disagree, he's not so reliant on brute strength. I really hate to keep quoting The Ring, but I trust their opinion more than mine right now. If you pick up the January 2002 issue; you'll see that the only things in question about Klitschko are:
1. How will he respond to a beating- does he have the chin or the heart?
2. Can he adapt? Can he respond to an unfamiliar situation, or is he just programmed?

People are pretty much 50/50 on how he moves- either people call him an oaf, or people say he's a smooth offensive fighter. I say he'll get better with more fights against top 10 guys.

I say he's got skill- more than just power. Someone who uses a busy jab, that can be stiff when it wants to be, doesn't seem like a fighter too reliant on power or brute strength. Emanuel Steward seems to be the only one that questions him having anything more than just size.

Not only does his jab impress me, but he outclassed (not outpowered) Byrd, after Byrd beat his brother. That to me says a lot- seeing how Byrd ain't got much power and relies on skill. You can't overlook Byrd: he beat Tua, he was named The Ring's Fighter of the Month, and as a mandatory challenger, he has an outside shot at the title because he fights unlike anyone else out there.

Klitschko don't get hit a lot, which is an extension of who he's been put up against, but it also makes people think he can't hack it when the going gets tough.

His one loss came in front of his home crowd- the first professional fight he had in front of his home crowd. He went all out to impress them and wore himself out. Had it been left up to him, he probly woulda finished and had a good chance of winning. Unfortunately his corner threw in the towel, against his objections, and he's never heard the end of it.

I say let him climb up the Top 10 ranks, with guys he has a good chance of beating. Let him take the risks of getting a serious beating from guys he's likely to survive against. Let him build up that confidence, that heart, and that chin; via a gradual climb up the top 10 ladder. Don't rush him into title contention where a decisive defeat this early in his progression might just break him & his career.

He needs show the critics that he can survive battles. He needs to show that he can fight back after getting pounded; so that he's not written off so quick if he happens to lose to someone like Lewis or Tyson.

To pull a quote from that issue of the Ring (sorry), Kurt Emhoff- writer for Maxboxing.com :
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...The things I like about [Klitschko] are his size, his jab, and his power in both hands. he has a great amateur background and he's not as robotic as his brother and Michael Grant. Klitschko is still a work in progress, but he's not any worse than Lennox Lewis was when Lewis was coming up. [/quote]

Maybe I'm just a Larry Merchant follower, but both of us like him. :)

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

Spark
10-22-2001, 02:56 PM
but from what I've seen of VM (two fights) to me, he DID look robotic, very stiff, not a lot of lateral movement. When you compare him to someone close to his size (lennox), who is athletic and has great body movement, I can't see him being able to handle that (at this point in his career). I don't think you can compare the two in regards to VM point in his career, because like I said, Lennox has always had good body movement and been able to move well in the ring - maybe in terms of fights sure, but that's it.

Lost_Disciple
10-22-2001, 09:43 PM
Fair enough. :)
Personally, I think he looks awkward in his movement, which could improve with more fights with tougher opponents.
It may be due just as much to his trainer as anything else, I dunno.

If he comes up right, I think he could be real cool to watch. :)

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/4_3/images/gk1.jpg
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.