Hey guys, I need some opinions.

[Ryu]

Okay.
As most of you know, I'm now teaching JKDC. Been doing well, and have been gaining moderate success slowly but surely.

I have this friend who is going to take lessons as well...
(I've mentioned him once before)

This friend is the kind of person who is very..."fantasy" prone.
He was grossly overweight (obese) as a teenager, and very anti-social. In his 20's now, he has since lost LOTS of weight (close to 170 pounds!) and is slowly getting up his confidence too. Which is good.

He's worked out with me before, but never in a real serious manner. (I would occasionally give him pointers on how to punch, grapple, etc.)
He also takes lessons at a state college which does kung fu ( I don't know which style) and Japanese jiu-jitsu.

Now...
My friend, like I said is "fantasy" prone. He lives in this world of comics, "Batman" stories, and the like....
in fact, I think he sometimes "sees" himself as these types of superhero personas....

The only thing is.....

He's not half as good or knowledable or tough as he'd like to believe. :(
I'd like to bring him down to earth a little bit. I thought that some real lessons of boxing, grappling, and athletic training would do him some good.
And when we actually do train, he's since realized that more than half the stuff he "trained" in the past doesn't work....

But regardless.....he CONSTANTLY talks as if he is immensely knowledgable in MA....

and he's not. Not even a little bit. :(

Just tonight we were talking on the phone, and he wanted me to "review" his stuff from the other class so he could test there. I told him
"Well, I can look at it, but your teacher and I are teaching two different types of things."

He said, "Well I found out what style we do. We do "Gong fu" (with that accent) and "jiu-jitsu." (the stuff he showed to me was classical JJJ)

then he said "I think you guys are doing the same thing."

(I've told him countless times I teach Jeet Kune Do Concepts, and what that entails.)

I said, "Well I don't think so. What style of kung fu does he teach?"

My friend said "Huh?"

Then my friend said "But we did jiu-jitsu together!"

I said "That was Brazilian jiu-jitsu, not Japanese jiu-jitsu"

He said" Oh what? How many kinds of jiu-jitsu are there??"

(He has NO real knowledge of the MA world...at all.)

I said later "You know we should get together and just have a discussion about martial art. Just so you can get familiar with what it really is, how many styles and systems there are...you know, just to get some good knowledge...."

His answer. "Yeah. Well....I already have a LOT of knowledge. I've been studying about it for years."

(No he hasn't...he reads magazines, and watches Highlander...)

I said "Well let's talk anyway. :rolleyes: "


It's not that he's arrogant or anything.....he just....
thinks he knows more than he actually does.

What's the best way to teach someone like this? Any opinions?
What would you do in my place?
Just wanted to get other ideas. Since I know him personally, it makes it easier for me....but that "fantasy" he lives in is going to come crashing down around him one day....

And I think he honestly knows that......but doesn't want to admit it.

He also makes sweeping overexaggerations.

(i.e. "Well I used to train greco roman wrestling and amateur wrestling for a long time...."

Me: "Where did you study Greco/Roman at?"

Him: "What?"

Me: "Who taught you Greco/Roman?"

Him: "Well...I..... my friend showed me a few moves..."


:rolleyes:

Opinions, please.

Thanks

Ryu

[Laughing Cow]

Ryu.

I would send him to a friend to train and take him down a notch or two.

My advise is don't do it yourself, as it can and most likely will affect your relationship.

Unfortunately there are many people like him out there, most of them some day will quit quietly and not mention their training again, others will come online to sprout their knowledge.

One thing one of my teachers told me I think still rings true.

"I won't teach you anything new, but I will show how to use what you got to the optimum benefit in in ways that you don't know now."

IMHO, you can't change a person you can guide them and hope that they will change/adjust by themselves.

Just my thoughts.

[Ralek]

You should use BJJ to beat him. Just tap him out a whole bunch.

Brcue Lee created JKD becuase kung fu didn't work. We must follow in Bruce Lee's foot steps and bring as many people as we can away from fantasy based martial arts like kungfu.

[Chang Style Novice]

Jeez, I dunno...can you spend an evening with him in the waiting room of an ER to see what kind of stuff comes through? Just a thought.

[Ryu]

I swear to God, Ralek, if you hijack my thread....


Tapping him out humbles him at the moment, but still doesn't seem to get him away from those fantasies...

Laughing Cow, thanks for the input. You might be right.

Guys, please give me as many opinions as you can on this.


(And seriously, do not turn it into a "I'll show you, Ralek!" type of thing... )

Ryu

[Serpent]

One small point - if he said gong fu rather than kung fu then he's probably learning a southern system or from a southern teacher. In Cantonese, it's pronouced gong or gung. Maybe that's relevant.

As to the case in hand, you need to have that talk. You need to explain how a lot of stuff is good for training and a lot of stuff is good for actually using on people and that the two often don't meet. Then offer to show him a few things (so that he's getting more than a lecture!) but choose things that are simple, not in the least bit flashy, yet brutally effective. Then explain the other stuff again. Tell him not to be blinded by comic book and movie fu and that he needs to learn the real McCoy if he's serious about it. Otherwise he should learn something like contemporary wushu which is likely to be a lot less practical but more like his Batman comics.

(By the way, Batman RULES! Grrr! Don't slag off the Dark Knight, OK, or I'm gonna have to do something really geeky!)

[Ralek]

Kung fu people think that thier artful and dance like forms will prepare them for real fights on the street.

But in the real world fights are hard like they are in boxing and wrestling, and you need a style that was forged in the heat of real fights like BJJ.

BJJ fighters have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to defeat kungfu fighters.

[Serpent]

Oh Ralek, you're like herpes. Every time you think it's gone away it flares up again with the same old irritations.

Ryu, just ignore him - we're in this thread for you, mate. ;)

[Cody]

Much of what has already been said is practical and reasonable.

I think that more than anything, your friend is looking for approval, even if that comes from your inadvertently participating in his fantasy world.

If it weren't martial arts, it might be writing the great American novel (but not putting in the time to do so....), or something like that. Thing is that people prone to a world of dreams can expend quite a bit of energy, and not be very creative about it either. I think it's a crap shoot what would happen to a person like this if he were badly beaten in 3D.

I think also that one thing you might consider is whether this person is truly interested in real martial arts (or anything for that matter), or only in fantasy. Your approach has been a good one, especially is someone wants to be informed. I don't think he does, and I think you both know it. Sometimes, as much as you want to make a difference in someone's life, the motivation just isn't there on the other side. Hope he wakes up, cause you're a good friend.

Cody

[Merryprankster]

Just keep beating him. Eventually, he's going to ask "how you keep doing that."

Tell him. But don't tell him I beat you with x by doing y. Tell him:

"Well, the first thing I did was get in shape. The second thing I did was learn to move. The final thing I did was spar--and I did a lot of it. The truth is that none of what we do works without those three basics."

Give him some training concepts to grasp on to.

Sounds like he needs them.

[Goldenmane]

Kinda difficult one, Ryu.

Obviously, I don't know the guy, so anything I say can only be entirely speculative. I'm sure you'll take anything I say in the spirit it is intended.

One possibility is to introduce him to certain MA discussion boards on the net, actually. It doesn't sound like he's especially stupid, it just sounds like he's caught up in his fantasy world, drawn from reading stuff and a reaction to a sense of inferiority... maybe.

The reason I suggest maybe discussion forums is that they are text based, and that plays on his reading/fantasy thing. Plus, of course, he will soon be told that he doesn't know anything much at all. Without being beaten to a pulp. :)

Another idea might be to just take him "into the ring" as it were, and show him that he's placing himself at severe risk. It's possibly a little harsh, but from what I have read of your stuff over the last several years you probably have enough skill to toss him around like a rag doll and pummel him for long enough (and yet gently enough that he doesn't recieve any real injury) to make it clear to him that he has to admit that he is fooling himself.

Another option is to take him on a tour of serious schools, if you can arrange it, while these schools are in the midst of their most hefty training sessions. Might humble him enough to break the fantasy barrier. Let him smell the sweat, see the blood, hear the grunts...

Perhaps just make the guy sit down and listen while you rant at him, starting with the sentence, "Listen, mate, you don't know sh!t, and I'm going to tell you why!"

Collect and tell him stories about people who displayed the same behaviour and came to grisly ends (or maybe were simply drastically disabused).

Pile him down with tremendous amounts of reading material.

Take him somewhere he can't easily get home from and have a frank, serious discussion with him.

Take him into a dangerous bar where fights are common, and make him sit there and watch.

Try as I might, I cannot seem to come up with an option that is "easy" on him. He's living in a dangerous fantasy (as you are obviously aware) and is not likely to let it go easily. It seems that he needs a shock of some sort, and if you are serious about breaking him out of his fantasy world then you are electing yourself to administer that shock. The advantage, of course, being that you are in control and therefore the shock is under control. It could be considered Crisis Therapy (just made that name up, don't know if anyone has coined it before me)... it has existed in various forms for a long time.

We've both (all/most) seen people who have lived in a similar fantasy world, often though not exclusively through attending "McDojos", who have suffered this short sharp shock in an uncontrolled fashion. Basically, they get the crud beaten out of them in a major way. We're familiar with the responses to this, so I don't feel the need to go into them. I suspect, though, that providing the shock in a controlled way may be the only way to break the guy's fantasy, hence the above suggestions.

[Ralek]

The sad thing is that most of the kung fu people on this forum are also living this same kung fu fantasy.

How many people here seriously believe in chi power? aparantly many here do.

How many seriously believe thier horse stance squatting and kungfu forms are preparing them for real fights? too many

How many are chambering their punches at the hip like a wacked out karate person and not realizing that's a bad thing? kung fu guys don't realize that.

How many people here no nothing of grapping but just imagine in their head they will just bite and eye gouge and believe this will stop any wrestler or BJJer?

This is a kung fu fantasy that you guys are part of yourselves. This thread is about you guys just as much as it is of Ryu's friend.

[quiet man]

Originally posted by Ralek
But in the real world fights are hard like they are in boxing and wrestling, and you need a style that was forged in the heat of real fights like BJJ.

... whereas WC (for example) was forged in those long elaborated discussions Yip Man's had with Wong Shun Leung and Lok Yiu while sitting in their comfy chairs and sipping fine wine.


Originally posted by Ralek
BJJ fighters have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to defeat kungfu fighters.

Good for them!!!

[scotty1]

At last a troll whose skills I can respect....

But on topic, I couldn't add anything to what's already been said.

[Brad]

One small point - if he said gong fu rather than kung fu then he's probably learning a southern system or from a southern teacher. In Cantonese, it's pronouced gong or gung. Maybe that's relevant.
My teacher who only speaks Mandarin pronounces it closer to "gongfu" than kungfu. So I'd have to disagree
:D

[Dark Knight]

My friend, like I said is "fantasy" prone. He lives in this world of comics, "Batman" stories, and the like....

First, tell him I am the only one and will not tolerate cheap copy cat wanna be's.

I have run a cross a couple hundred people like him. I actually know a 41 year old guy who told us how he took on 20 people at the same time.

There is no good answer for these types. I tried sparring with them and abused them, but they just justify it because you are a higher rank and should be able to beat him. Then he will tell all his buddies about the sparring session and how hard he trains. The more you beat him, the more he is convinced he is training super hard and can fight anyone.

just teach him, talk to him and correct him on how he carries himself. Point out what it looks like without saying its him directly.

We just picked up a Black Belt from a school that made up thier own style and called it "Masters Style Self Defense" His Black Belt has that in gold on it. I finally told him its in poor taste to have the word Master on your belt even though its referring to the style. Sometimes people do not realize how they appear to the world.

....look at Ralek.

[Ray Pina]

RYU, put the gloves on and beat him from wall to wall. Go to the ground and make him tap. Beat him in every possible way and, if he's serious, he'll want to know why.

Ralek, check your PM box.

[SanSoo Student]

You should take him to a really crazy MA studio/gym, one that is rough, so when he tries to brag about all he knows, the real guys practicing MA will show him how it works.

I recommend taking him to Muay Thai if you can, then u could let him see that his kung fu doesn't work against knees and elbows.

Its easy enough to learn where he could just train himself once he gets the basics. And then he could start learning real MA, cuz once he learns stand up fighting, he should have more interest in BJJ.

I hope my post makes sense, its 6:47 AM right now. My brain is still waking up cuz my coffee didn't brew yet. :mad:

[Mr Punch]

MP and Dark Knight have got the correct by the scrotum with their teeth and are having a tugowar with it.

As MP says, he needs three rules, and you need to keep beating him with them. You can probably use any three rules, but MP's seem practical enough to get rid of his delusional bent. But, as DK implies, you will need the patience of a saint, but then, you are Ryu.:)

I would shoot him, myself.

[apoweyn]

I think I'm going to differ a bit with most of the opinions here. Suggestions about beating the crap out of him are perfectly valid. He'll learn what's real and what's not, certainly. But what do people expect? That he'll experience some sort of blunt force trauma-induced epiphany? That he'll all of a sudden see the light?

I think it's more likely that the changes you're looking for, Ryu, are already taking place. But change to self identity is kinda terrifying on some gut level. So your friend is protecting his self image. By insisting that he is smart, and competent, etc. I'm sure he's experiencing a lot of the reevaluation you're hoping he is. But simultaneously trying to preserve his ego. Be patient with him. I don't think the ego preservation thing is really all that bad along the way (as much as we would all like to believe in zen ideals about extinguishing the ego, etc.).

I think you'll see a gradual shift if you're patient enough. Happened with me. And if one of my mates had been purposefully trying to engineer that shift in perspective, I'm sure it would have tried their patience horribly.


Stuart B.

[No_Know]

Approach: Oh really...; That's interesting...; tell me about that...

For openings--holes in his belief structure that you with your knowledge base can point out as holes--does not make sense does not follow; or introduce facts to suggest his concepts are off...

"(i.e. "Well I used to train greco roman wrestling and amateur wrestling for a long time...."
Him: "Well...I..... my friend showed me a few moves...""

After such mentions with your reasonable probes. Tying in the beginning of his claim with the clarifications of his ending statement might be your key.

Is it your understanding that a few moves equals studying for a long time?

Hopefully, hearing it, that won't make sense to even him and it wil den't his bravado.

I have concern from the design of his statement (you presented) that he feels inferior to the likes of you (idolizes you (perhaps you and your sort)). And he talks-up his experience and background to get your respect.

Look upon him as a little brother type. One who wants to do all the older boys stuff or go where they do and won't admit to Any inadequecies toone day be accepted. Proves he's as good as you all by not giving-up, when he will loose or doesn't know what's going-on nor what he's doing. He hopes to himself he can figure it out as he goes. And big talk when he is even partially successful so you think well of him. And excuses that it wasn't his fault he failed or that no one could have succeded.

...

[shaolinboxer]

Just keep practicing with him. If you disagree with on of his points, point it out in as nice a way as possible. Be gentle with this kid, and you have the best chance of helping him figure it all out. If you beat on him, physically, verbally, or emotionally you are most likely just reproducing the model that got him into this mess in the first place. Destroy his illusions with an open heart and a gentle nudge.

[Ray Pina]

I do not mean, kick him while he's down, hit him when he's turned "beat him".

Learning martial arts is different then scholastic schooling. I hated school as a kid, I went kicking and screaming and my teachers and parents had to do everything they could to get me to do home work, go to class -- and that didn't work.

On the other hand, I was in my gi and ready for class before dinner telling my dad to hurry up that I'd be late for training. That's because I wanted to learn.

Now, you're friend may seem interested in learning, but is he really? One never learns anything by opening their mouth. So, I suggested beating him, just to show who has authority concerning martial arts. If that doesn't shut his mouth and open his ears/mind ... then just forget him. He's a flake. He's more interested in the MA title than the skills associated with it. There's a ton of monk robe wearing, wushu sword swinging folks like him. Fine. But don't waist your time.

Those that really want to learn will come with an open mind. Those that "know it all", know it all already. Congratulate them and let them be.

Too much talk and discussion and trying to find common ground already. I would've said, "Let's put the gloves on" long ago. You're a good man. But you can't open someone else's eyes for them -- especially if their head is burried in the sand.

[apoweyn]

You're a good man. But you can't open someone else's eyes for them -- especially if their head is burried in the sand.

Is that a direct quote from Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha?

[Merryprankster]

Right. I didn't mean beat on him either. I meant, just continue to win. He'll ask "How did you do that?" And that's your teachable moment.

[Ray Pina]

I didn't think I was quoating anyone, but now that you mention it that does sound highly quoatable.

Anyway,

RYU, you're the teacher. Don't put up with that crap. Serious, "how to" questions, or even an occassional, "but what if I do that," can be tolerated. But if he's more or less challenging your postion, you have to make it known who's the manager and who's the coffee boy. There can't be any discussion there.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Right. I didn't mean beat on him either. I meant, just continue to win. He'll ask "How did you do that?" And that's your teachable moment.

I like that. The teachable moment. Absolutely. Just expect that when you use that moment, there's a good chance he's not going to experience enlightenment then and there. He's probably going to hem and haw. Or offer counterpoints. Or whatever. But I don't think that means the message wasn't heard loud and clear. I think people do hear and understand at times like that. Even if their behavior doesn't seem consistent with that.


Stuart B.

[No_Know]

If you could post the comics he uses as guides That would help me...

You'd mentioned Batman comics. Perhaps some animations, television...Point out such things to reach him...Robin started as an aerial acrobat. He and Batman studied from many experts as he was growing-up. Bruce Wayne was humble as he studied in Japan. His humility helped him to progress. He practiced the lessons as he was shown and taught. And he practiced them on his own those things. to have it as good as his understanding allowed when he got to show his instructor.

Batman did little training. Bruce Wayne studied from experts all his life. Batman wouldn't exist without Bruce Wane's Drive and slow progress throughout his life.

Pointing out that you were not always as good for each technique...what you went through before you even did it fair and that there is better than you. Might help.

Perhaps recommending Jademan comics Force of Buhda's Palm, Bloodsword (Dynasty), Iron Marshal.~

They are strong but recognize that even they have limitations.

[mantis108]

I think Cody hits the nail dead on. Your friend is most likely looking to you for approval and don't know how to ask for your help. I have a feeling that he looks up to you in a certain area (physical attribute?) He definitely don't want you to look down on him and his stuff.

MP also suggested a practical approach. The only thing is that I don't think showing that you are superior both physically and in knowledge is going to help him. I think it would be better if you speak to him at his level. As you mention that he's gain a little confidence over the years, it would seem that confidence is pretty fragile. So I am not sure if breaking what is left is a good idea. I think use MP's approach but do it as an equal no more no less. Hopefully he sees your respects towards him and realize that MA is about the human being (how we act accordingly) not about the cool stuff (skill that we process).

Dark Knight has a great point about the people who turn things arround. The point about sparring with a more compatant person means that they "train" hard and therefore deserve to have at least the same ranking if not even better. These people knows how to boast their own ego. It is not much of a point to tell that to their faces because they will hardly see it themselves and think that you are merely trying to discredit them.

Be yourself and go with the flow. Offer your help and your view as is. Avoid discussions and justifications. When in doubt, act. Let them doing the rest. It could be really irrateting at times but that's what friends are for. ;) If you are a true friend, you will take that like a man. May be you will eventually help him to realize that he should rather channel his energy in writting comics base on his experiences in the so called Kung Fu that he is learning.

Good luck

Mantis108

[Ralek]

Dark Knight. I know all about how i'm percieved on the internet. I purposly make people percieve me in a negative way becuase that is the only way the truth about kung fu can be taught to true kungfu believers.

You have to be blunt and just say the truth about kung fu training. Kung fu is like a religion, not a science. It's based on myths, superstitions, and traditions, instead of facts and tests.

UFC was a scientific testing ground to see how styles did when there were no rules excepet for biting and eye pokes. Kung fu failed miserably. We must reject false theories like kung fu and move on to scientific facts like wrestling, BJJ, boxing. muay thai.

[Volcano Admim]

Ralek -> outdated troll

[Ryu]

Wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped out on this thread.
You guys gave some good advice.

Tonight's lesson seemed to open him up to reality more. (MP, I even used your 3 rules of the reality fighter, get in shape, learn to move, and spar :D )

Since my muay thai has been growing by leaps and bounds I introduced him to the basics of it, and split class up so he could work on some combat conditioning/bodyweight training, etc.

For the first time he really started acting like a student. Tonight we worked the focus mitts a bit, then the kicking shield, then did some light muay thai sparring.
Letting him try all his stuff, I stuck him with various combos and made light to moderate contact (he's not to the level of going full contact). After about 10-12 minutes of being hit with combos of push kicks, round kicks, crosses, jabs, and even some light knees, he sucked in his breath, said "jeez...!" and really started to pay attention to everything I said. He really started enjoying the reality, at least he looked as though a light went off in his head. :)

After than we worked on conditioning where he went through a ladder program of hindu squats, hindu pushups, and back bridges....seeing that he could barely do more than 20 at a time of each, he seemed to really be interested in getting stronger. And finally in a humble way.

After the conditioning routine, we closed with some groundwork, and drilled some guard passes and mount escapes followed by some grappling, and then back to our feet for a few more minutes of light muay thai sparring.

At the end of the lesson he seemed really happy with the training, and even repeated the three "rules" of the reality fighter. "Get in shape, learn to move, and spar..." (thanks, MP haha)

So looks like he might be making somewhat of a breakthrough, he's still probably a little fantasy prone...but at least now he knows that he's gonna have to work honestly to make those fantasies true. (at least we'll hope haha.) Might have been that tonight was much more sparring oriented than his other classes, so it might have helped after all.

Again, thanks everyone.

Ryu

[Volcano Admim]

Originally posted by Ryu
and even repeated the three "rules" of the reality fighter. "Get in shape, learn to move, and spar..." (thanks, MP haha)


brain-wash

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ryu
After than we worked on conditioning where he went through a ladder program of hindu squats, hindu pushups, and back bridges....seeing that he could barely do more than 20 at a time of each, he seemed to really be interested in getting stronger. And finally in a humble way.


Jeez, Ryu - you might be a man-machine, but a set of 20 Hindu Pushups alone is quite good fpor someone out of shape!

Don't kill the poor SOB! ;)

Still, sounds like good progress. Well done.

[Volcano Admim]

jocks offently are unable to measure such as the right amount and intesity of exercise should be for other people (read "normal people" or "out of shape people"), since their standards are twisted.

in their mind, they imagine everyone should do 2000 ass-twist-biceps-lift-bar just like they do, and everyone that cant is just "lazy, weak-ass"
"quit being lazy, do those 1000 reps!"

and so on

this often causes disestimulation on begginers cos they actually start believing they are lazy/weak and cant keep up with the rest of the class cos of it.

progression is not considered (specially on big classes), the tough-ass jock teacher expects everyone to do those required stardards of his (1000 reps), not realising that this might even result in injury. Dont believe what i say? Its simple, they scream: "EVERYBODY! ONE THOUSAND REPS NOW!!!!" "GET MOVIN!!"

[Ryu]

I'm very watchful. Don't worry.

But I take the "jock" comment as a compliment. :D

Ryu

[Christopher M]

Ryu, sounds like you're making headway, but if you're still looking for advice...

There's a few different ways of handling these kinds of situations; one is confrontation and another is joining.

In confrontation, you position yourself as an authority figure with respect to the other person, and position knowledge as residing within yourself; the relationship being dependant on your desire to transmit it and his desire to recieve it.

In joining, you position yourself as a peer to the other person, and position knowledge as residing outside both of you; the relationship being dependant upon your mutual desire to pursue that knowledge.

Some people's resistance to learning involves conflicts between pleasing and opposing authority figures and their own self-interest. Provided it's handled adroitly, confrontation can work well with them.

Other people's resistance to learning is due to too much self-preoccupation, in which case they're liable to respond very poorly to confrontation, and joining is a better strategy.

It sounds like this situation with your friend falls into the latter category; in which case, you might want to try "joining" him, at least until his self-preoccupation diminishes.

Martial arts are an excellent medium for this because it's easy to focus on doing them (ie. both of you pursuing the knowledge), rather than one of you having some kind of absolute knowledge which you are conveying. Also, readily observable martial proficiency serves as a good reality-testing principle to keep the exploration from simply wandering further into the realm of fantasy, which might otherwise be a problem with the joining strategy.

With the joining strategy, when he makes comments like the ones about JJ and greco-roman you mentioned originally, your goal should be - rather than presenting him with the authoritarian response, trying to get him to ask the questions to himself (ie. to doubt, for himself, his preconceptions, and begin looking outward for those answers, rather than inward). For instance, you might have tried mirroring those comments, by suggesting you had your own doubts as to the number of JJ styles and asking him how many he had heard of. For the greco-roman comment, you could have mirrored the sentiment while finding out how far that logic of his extends (ie. "Yeah, didn't I see you studying that book on fencing a while ago?") or by supplying an identifying comment (ie. "That's cool. I have a friend who showed me a few savate moves last year too..."); again, both with the intention of getting him to question for himself the logic of those sentiments.

Good luck!

[No_Know]

In the ring he might try to vindicate himself or his beliefs. He is not receptive to the ring stuff. He'll try to trick you--timing when you're about to let down your guard~.

Be wary of Trusting him to be honorable just yet. The jeeze with the breath seemed indicative of note to Self: I'll get him yet. I Can beat him.