protein - why so much?

[fa_jing]

I didn't eat so well over the past two days, and it got me to thinking. I took a look at the protein contents of certain foods, and I realized that I average about 40-75 grams of protein intake a day, at 185 pounds. I think that's a reasonable number, or I could see going up to about 75 grams a day every day, but beyond that, it's ridiculous. I only eat regular food, although now I'm prolly going to supplement with a whey protein shake so that I can see what the fuss is about. The thing is, I've never plateau'd, only gotten injured and had to stop. But I'm gaining muscle mass, albeit slowly, and my reps are going up. I wonder if maybe a higher protein intake would improve my recovery time? Sometimes it does seem to take a long time to recover. But I thought that was good and a natural response to a high-intensity workout.

Now it seems that people recommend a minimum of 1 gram a day of protein per pound of bodyweight - I'd have to eat 30 eggs a day or 20 hotdogs (for instance, not that I eat them) to take in that much protein - which seems ridiculous, no?

I mean, if you take in that much protein, won't you just crap it all out the other end? Doesn't seem reasonable. Somebody explain this to me, please.

[IronFist]

I don't have time to write more now, but...
I mean, if you take in that much protein, won't you just crap it all out the other end? Doesn't seem reasonable. Somebody explain this to me, please.

The people who are hardcore about protein intake I guess would rather have too much than not enough.

I'll write more later if someone else hasn't answered first.

IronFist

[Vash]

I'd say take in about 0.8 to 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight every day . . . over the course of six small meals.
(I'll use my training diet to illustrate, as I really don't know what the fudge I'm talking about.)

(Bodyweight: 150lbs)
Daily: 3,500 Calories
Mostly protein, then carbs, fats, etc
Per Meal: appx 585 calories
Protein: 25grams

I also down a whey protein shake daily, throwing in about 5 tablespoons of peanut butter, mixing with 2% milk. Usually ends up to be 700 calories. Usually after a weights workout.

[fa_jing]

well, I found a T-mag article that said something like what IF was saying - "I'll say it again; you should overfeed protein. You'll **** off a good deal of it, but so what? It won't hurt you unless you've got kidney disease and you'll have the assurance that your ball-busting gym work is getting the required nutritional support."

http://t-mag.com/html/body_119prot.html


Also I'd better point out that I'm not doing alot of hypertrophy style workouts - so I might need alot less than a bodybuilder

[rubthebuddha]

will you **** it out, or will the excess just be stored as fat?

[Serpent]

More protein will help muscles grow if you're training hard for muscular hypertrophy. Some of the excess will get stored as fat, some will be crapped out. However, beware of excess protein as it can be really hard on the kidneys and liver. Do a search on ketosis and ketoacidosis.

Unless you're specifically bodybuilding (which is a ****ed unhealthy practice anyway) around 0.5 grams per pound BW is more than enough. 0.75 to 1 gram per pound of BW is pushing your limits and is more of a Bodybuilding level of intake. And cramming as much protein as possible in will not magically make your muscles grow - it doesn't work like that.

[fa_jing]

Actually my muscles are growing, which is the funny thing. They aren't growing at an astonishing rate, but they are growing and my strength is going up.

For the record, T-mag referred to some protein passing out through your urine, as it was metabolized by the Kidneys. I'm definitely not into stressing the Kidneys, or any other internal organ for that matter. The funny thing is that you can actually train your organs in this respect, in that your kidneys will adjust in some way to the high protein intake. Which isn't really good.

I'm going to try to eat a little more, and that's it. Oh, I I just dropped $30 on some whey protein, the plan is to have a 20g serving of protein after a workout, which is supposedly the most effective time for whey protein. I gathered from the article that whey protein is know for passing through your system fast. Cottage cheese is highly recommend, as it turns out. Which is good, it's been a while, but I like me some cottage cheese! I will buy some at the first opportunity. I've also just discovered canned tuna in oil straight up, not bad at all -- except that I'm a bit concerned about mercury poisoning or whatever.

[Serpent]

Well, protein doesn't exactly come out in urine as such - the side effect is the ketosis which = bad!

Also, beware what you read in magazines - check the credentials of the writers. More often than not the stuff in mags is total ****e.

Don't worry too much about the whey protein. The western diet has heaps of protein anyway - we usually eat way too much meat for example. But get your extra protein, if you are determined, from sources that you yourself suggested like cottage cheese, tuna, nuts, etc. Natural sources are far better.

Heavy metals in surface dwelling fish is becoming more of a concern lately. I don't know the details (haven't done much personal research) but tuna once or twice a week probably won't have enough to worry about, but is an excellent source of lean protein.

[Cheese Dog]

While it may be not be necessary to eat a huge amount of protein, I have found that personally I recover from exercise much quicker if I eat about 1 gram per lb. of bodyweight. Since gaining muscle size and weight are NOT things I want to do (I want to be as strong as I can be while keeping my weight down) I figure I must need the extra protein for repairs. If I don't get enough protein I stay sore and achy much longer.

If you're worried about too much fat intake protein powders are the way to go.

[fa_jing]

interesting about the recovery time. I always like to see my gains come more quickly, as well as have the enjoyment of working out again. I get a big kick out of it.

Oddly enough, although it is low fat, 1 serving of the whey protein I bought (GNC) carries 23% of your RDA for cholesterol.

[Cheese Dog]

Hmmm, just checked my whey protein. It's Optimum Nutrition brand and has 8% daily value of cholesterol, so I guess it varies from brand to brand.
Most nutritionists now seem to think that dietary cholesterol isn't a problem for most people, it's saturated fat that raises blood cholesterol and dietary cholesterol is only a problem for the few people who have a metabolic problem.

[Serpent]

There's good and bad cholesterol - good cholesterol actually helps reduce the bad stuff as well as exercise. Eat lots of stuff like avocadoes to get more of the good fats.

Also, you can get lean protein without the saturated fat by eating from natural sources like nuts, tuna, mushrooms, etc.

[lowsweep]

I have been on 1-1.5 grams per lb. bodyweight before. I find that my gains actually come more quickly if i focus on nutrition in the 3 hours before and two hours after working out. The rest of the time I try to eat a lot, get protein, etc., but I don't count grams. If you load up on carbs and QUALITY protein that has been engineered for what you are using it for (try proteinfactory.com if you need a source, I have been ordering from them for about 2 years) in the three hours leading up to working out, you will have the greatest gains. Also, cholestorol was mentioned. Cholestoral forms the basis for hormone production. If you want to get bigger, you need it.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Serpent
Also, you can get lean protein without the saturated fat by eating from natural sources like nuts, tuna, mushrooms, etc.

Nuts are good for you and all, but you'd have to eat a LOT of them to get a decent serving of protein. Plus, I remember reading that your body only utilizes 50% of nut protein or something like that, so if you ate a lot of peanuts (enough required to get maybe 10g of protein), you'd only use half of that. I'm nore sure if that's right but I think that's what I read.

Mushrooms have protein? Oh wait, I think I knew that. But just like nuts, it's probably not enough to make a difference. Does anyone know if it's a complete protein or not?

IronFist

[Serpent]

Iron, as far as I know the only non-meat complete protein is soy bean. However, it's almost impossible not to get complete proteins from a healthy diet is you eat a wide variety of foods.

Here, check this out:



Vegetarian Protein Sources

There is a popular misconception that meat is the only real source of protein, and thus that a vegetarian diet is inherently unhealthy due to a lack of protein. It is impossible to stress how untrue this is.

First of all, the Recommended Daily Allowance of protein is not as high as one might think, and many people - vegetarian or not - eat more protein than their bodies actually need. The approximate RDA of protein is only 47 grams for women and 54 grams for men.

Secondly, there are many protein-rich vegetarian and vegan foods. The only problem is that vegetable sources of protein, with the exception of soybeans, are not complete proteins, so you need to eat more than one in order to get the complete protein.

Vegan sources of protein

Cereals and grains - wheat, rye, corn...
Leafy green vegetables, including spinach
Legumes - beans, lentils, peas, peanuts
Nuts - almonds, walnuts, cashews...
Seaweed - kelp, spirulina...
Seeds - sesame, sunflower...
Soy products - tofu, tempeh, soy milk...
Vegetables - Brussel sprouts, potatoes, yuca
Ovo-lacto sources of protein

Eggs
Cheese
Milk
Yogurt
As long as vegetarians (and everyone else, for that matter) eat a wide variety of foods, they will easily manage to eat enough protein - not to mention other nutrients.

If you want to be absolutely certain that you are getting enough protein, you should eat food combinations which form a complete protein, such as:

Legumes + seeds
Legumes + nuts
Legumes + dairy
Grains + legumes
Grains + dairy
Chances are you already eat complete proteins without even trying. Here are some tasty and healthy complete protein combinations:

Beans on toast
Cereal/muesli with milk
Corn and beans
Granola with yogurt
Hummus and pita bread
Nut butter with milk or whole grain bread
Pasta with beans
Pasta with cheese (e.g., lasagne, macaroni and cheese)
Rice and beans, peas, or lentils
Rice with milk (rice pudding)
Split pea soup with whole grain or seeded crackers or bread
Tortillas with refried beans
Veggie burgers on bread
Note that these combinations don't necessarily have to be eaten at the same time; you can eat one several hours after the other and still benefit from the complete protein.



Bit of a super happy vege site, but the info is there. That's from:

http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com/articles/protein.html

So if you look at it like that and also go for things like tuna and cottage cheese, etc., then you're really not missing out on much protein. And you liver, kidneys and everything else will be happy and healthy too! ;)

[IronFist]

First of all, the Recommended Daily Allowance of protein is not as high as one might think, and many people - vegetarian or not - eat more protein than their bodies actually need. The approximate RDA of protein is only 47 grams for women and 54 grams for men.


I don't think you should go by the RDA for protein.

54g is not enough for an active male.

IronFist

[Serpent]

No, but it's ok for the average lard ass that doesn't train much.

Besides, that wasn't really the relevant point of posting that information. It was more about the protein sources and complete proteins that you asked about.

;)

[rubthebuddha]

the RDA was really only set as a minimum to keep people from getting sick. to stay optimally healthy, you have to tweak the numbers quite a bit more to suit your body.

[fa_jing]

I decided to go with more protein in my diet. Recently I went through a brutal workout. I had some whey protein afterward and continued to eat alot of protein, maybe 100 grams a day for two days. Indeed, my muscles seemed to recover much more quickly. On the down side, I gained a few pounds where not needed. I'm going to try to eat closer to .5 g per pound of bodyweight. That's about 90 grams for me.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Serpent
No, but it's ok for the average lard ass that doesn't train much.

Besides, that wasn't really the relevant point of posting that information. It was more about the protein sources and complete proteins that you asked about.

;)

Dude, I know. I'm just posting that so that lurkers or whoever here won't be like "cool I only need 54g of protein per day."

IronFist