Changing Yip Man's SLT

[[Censored]]

For those of you who have seen the Yip Man SLT footage...what portions of SLT do you perform differently, and why?

[[Censored]]

Are people more comfortable arguing about the events at Shaolin Temple 400 years ago, then discussing the public and verifiable records of Yip Man? How bizarre. :rolleyes:

[yuanfen]

Censored- you have asked the same Ip Ma SLT question ina different thread... and I have given you one answer. I now defer to others. Cheers.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by [Censored]
Are people more comfortable arguing about the events at Shaolin Temple 400 years ago, then discussing the public and verifiable records of Yip Man? How bizarre. :rolleyes:
Hi [Censored],

Since I'm not sure I've seen the footage in question, can you post a link to it?

What do I think in general about changing Yip Man's Sil Nim Tao? I think it's crazy. Likely anyone who changes it is unqualified to make that judgement. However, there are variations within it that don't violate the principles--an extra gahng sau---for example which is seen in Wong Shun Leung's SLT, if my memory serves. Nothing wrong with that change that I can see.

For myself, I keep peeling the Wing Chun onion and discover more and more layers. If I'd quit and gone my own way at any point, I would have missed all the heavenly glory, with apologies and sympathy to St. Bruce, both for the misquote and his own misguided departure from the Wing Chun path.

Regards,

[BeWater]

Where does one find the footage in question? Is it available on the Internet? For sale on tape/dvd?

[Edit: Wow. That's odd, John Weiland. Not only did I unknowingly ask the same question (three minutes later), but you made a reference to my second favorite Bruce Lee quote. Weird coincidence.]

[kj]

Originally posted by BeWater
Where does one find the footage in question? Is it available on the Internet? For sale on tape/dvd?

The best version (IMHO) is Swift's "Original Wing Chun" (http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/vid1.html) video; this tape contains the unedited film footage.

The same footage is also available on Leung Ting's "Authentic Wing Tsun" tape (I believe that's the one); the difference is that the video image is in a smaller frame rather than full screen, and the film has been edited.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kj]

Originally posted by John Weiland
What do I think in general about changing Yip Man's Sil Nim Tao? I think it's crazy. Likely anyone who changes it is unqualified to make that judgement. However, there are variations within it that don't violate the principles--an extra gahng sau---for example which is seen in Wong Shun Leung's SLT, if my memory serves. Nothing wrong with that change that I can see.


I'll go even a step further, and suggest it isn't compelling to compare our respective sets to Ip Man's "video" without first making considered inquiry as to why Ip Man himself made changes in the course of his lifetime. It seems to me that comparisons to a mere snapshot in time would lead at best to dubious conclusions.

Unfortunately "What was he thinking???" kinds of questions won't take us very far down the road to verity either.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[S.Teebas]

I like watching this footage becasue you can see how relaxed and flowing yip was! I mean, when i first started WC and saw this footage i thought it looked poor and I was a bit dissapointed. My perspective changed after I have progressed a bit and understand a few more concepts, however.

But Yip Man moves very smoothly and extremely relaxed! This means he's able to use a large amount of body mass (it's visible after his bong sau then to plam strike I noticed in particular). Alot of people say he was sick (which i know is true) at this time, and it wasnt his best effot. But there's still a lot of good stuff in that old footage IMHO.

Back to the topic: I do SNT pretty much the same as Yip man. I can't understand why some people do it with 'dynamic tension' if they are from Yip Man's line...when the evidence of him doing it very, very relaxed is right here!

[Wingman]

Originally posted by [Censored]
For those of you who have seen the Yip Man SLT footage...what portions of SLT do you perform differently, and why?

From the video clip provided by kj above, I can see that there are minor differences with Yip Man's SLT compared with our SLT. In the video clip, Yip Man executed a punch, huen sao, etc... In our SLT, we do a punch, tan sao, huen sao, etc...

We perform SLT differently because I'm not from Yip Man lineage.:)

[kj]

Originally posted by S.Teebas
I like watching this footage becasue you can see how relaxed and flowing yip was!

Hi S.

Your observation and comments beg a good question (IMHO) ...

What is the most relevant or compelling aspect of that footage? Is it (for examples):


Sequence or combination of techniques?
Absolute positions?
The qualities and nature of his motive force?
Something other?


Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kj]

Originally posted by [Censored]
Are people more comfortable arguing about the events at Shaolin Temple 400 years ago, then discussing the public and verifiable records of Yip Man?

Speaking for myself, hardly.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[S.Teebas]

What is the most relevant or compelling aspect of that footage? Is it (for examples):


Sequence or combination of techniques?
Absolute positions
The qualities and nature of his motive force
Something other?

Something other?


I think the sequence IS important. The first section can 'warm you up' in a WC kind of way ;) Its a good way to get all the basics on whlie performing one of the more simple WC motion IMHO.

Absolute positions are definately NOT important. Wc is supposedly about concepts, so saying a defined position is going to cover everything is overlooking so many other things. Position IME is important and relative to the input you have recieved. Although i do believe there are some extremes we shouldnt breach.

Nature is very important too :) Motive force is also importnat, especially if you want to generate large amounts of force with little brute force.

[black and blue]

I would agree that there are lots of important things regarding the footage.

One that is important to me is that it is simply in motion . There are loads of pictures of Yip Man, but very little video footage of him doing his thing.

As I will never have the opportunity to meet the man, it is good to see him doing SNT, CK and the Dummy Form. I believe there is also some footage of him using the Pole, though I haven't seen this yet.

What surprises me, given the importance of Chi Sau in Wing Chun, is that no one ever recorded him Chi Sau'ing with students... that would perhaps be the most valuable footage of all.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by [Censored]
Are people more comfortable arguing about the events at Shaolin Temple 400 years ago, then discussing the public and verifiable records of Yip Man? How bizarre. :rolleyes:

It is not bizarre at all and it is natural.

whatever close is too close to home and can be taken personal unintentionally.

[KingMonkey]

$56 to see some old dead guy do a few forms ? ;)
[dives for cover]
I think I can find a better way to spend my money. If anyone has a link to a free clip please post away.

[black and blue]

Pirating leads, KingMonkey, pirating leads

[yuanfen]

KingMonkey-your post tells a lot about you. For some- why should they give you the time of the day.

Black and blue, Teebas and others- I agree that the Ip Man film tells a lot-
provided one knows what to look for- which can be a problem.
Further one cannot dogmatically infer things.

Having said that- the film is informative to me...in the following areas...

1. The sequence gives an in idea of the separate sections..
the important tan-huen-wu-fok first section followed by the double hand gum etc, followed by the single hand 3 move sequence and then the last tuit section-followed by the punches.
Its beena while since I saw the film and am depending on memory.

2.the relaxation, flow and transition- even though he was near death and almost 80 years old.

3. the elbow and wrist angles of the tan, bong and fok and their
positioning on the line.

joy

[KingMonkey]

"why should they give you the time of the day"

Maybe they're not as uptight as you. Get a grip.

Still you're right my post does tell something about me, principally that I dont put the same value on analysing the excruciating minutia of how Yip Man did his tan-sau or whatever as many of you do. Be interested to take a look nevertheless just not worth $56 is all.

[PaulH]

http://www.cranesproduction.com/

The site above has YM's dummy book. It is a more economical option if you like to see YM in front of the dummy. While the photos are wrongly arranged in some parts, you can see the naturalness, the correct angles, and lines in snapshots.

Regards,

[foolinthedeck]

hey,
regarding photos - why do they always seem to get arranged in the wrong order no matter which book u look at and no one seems to check it before its published?

are they really that bad at proofing or is it intentional so that the only way to learn a form in the right sequence is to get a sifu?

[hunt1]

Story is Gold book was intentional. Leung Ting wanted to be able to tell who learned dummy from the book.