Humility!

[Laughing Cow]

Seen a discussion about this topic over on Cyberkwoon and it turned out very good and interesting.

What are your ideas on humility?

So lets get cracking.

[yenhoi]

I think humility is good, thats why Im so humble.

Im humbler then anyone else, IMO.

:D

[CrippledAvenger]

Humility is nice, but not necessary. Respect, on the other hand, is absolutely necessary-- especially when sparring or free-fighting. No respect equals injuries and bad training. In fact, I have a hunch that emphasis on humility over respect seems to cause more problems for both the students and the teachers than any realize.

And while I'm ranting ;), this faux-humility that seems to pervade a good many kwoons and dojos is absolutely the most irritating thing, IMO. I can deal with braggadocios, but for god's sake, don't brag about how humble you are. That just gets my goat.

[joedoe]

I disagree. I think humility is at least as important as respect. But as you point out, false humilty is a pain in the arse. True humility is important.

I am not talking about self-deprecating behaviour, simply being honest enough with yourself to acknowledge your strengths and weaknesses, and that the strengths and weaknesses of others do not necessarily make them any worse than you, just different.

For example, I have a friend who I train with and he is immensely powerful. However, I have had more time to refine my technique than he has as I have trained in this art for longer. So who is better? In this case, humility would dictate that we accept that neither is better, we simply have different strengths.

[Starchaser107]

theres a time and a place for everything imo
sometimes you should be humble
other times situation might necessitate for you to become an @sshole

some people only understand one "language" so you have to speak to them in a way that they can hear.

[joedoe]

OK that is true in the world at large I guess. In the confines of a MA school though, I believe that respect and humility are equally important.

[Serpent]

No, no, no, joedoe. Just face it. He's better than you.

You and your false humility! Hah!

See, I used to be quite conceited, but I'm actually perfect now, so it's easy for me to be humble. When you're perfect humility comes naturally.

[joedoe]

lol.

You are right, he is simply better than me. I must just accept that I am nothing but a lowly worm.

How is that for false humility? :D

[Serpent]

Almost perfect. ;)

[Kristoffer]

Maybe humility (--> thus turning humble) is a bad thing? If you look at great boxers most are not that humble right?

I dunno, just trying to find the oposite side of this topic.

[Brad]

I think humility has nothing to do with fighting ability, though I suppose if you're too ****y you might not train to your full ability.

[Starchaser107]

too much of either is no good, in or out of the kwoon (imo).
humility does not equate to respect.
humility is when one lowers thier own importance or if it is lowered for them.
respect is admiration given to a person that has good qualities.
people say "respect in the kwoon" when the more appropriate word might be reverence or civility.
it is possible respect someone who is inferior to you.
if one is humble in a fight it could be dangerous.
if one is mindful that he/she could be humbled if they arent on thier guard , that's a different story.
if one is too arrogant they might never learn anything because they are too confident in thier ways and enamoured by themselves.

[bodhitree]

Humility=honest self assesment.
It doesn't mean thinking poorly about yourself.
I am a human being who has strengths and weaknesses.
that is a statement of humility.
Humility in the martial arts
I have made good progress however there are still those who are better so I must continue training hard.
Humility helps us to remain teachable and openminded.
Humilityis not equal to humiliation.

[Starchaser107]

no.
honest self assessment is something quite different.

i defined humility as it is presented in the dictionary.

these are examples of how humility is used

"john, who is now quite affluent , came from a humble background"

"peter, was humbled when jack gave him a punishing blow to the head"

I did not say think poorly of ones self btw. I said if one lowers thier own importance. you can do that without degrading yourself.

do not confuse humilty with modesty.:cool:

[ZIM]

Maybe a differing view

Humility/being humbled for me is an occurence, but not in the sense of 'not being good enough' or anything... it's like this: say I do something well, and my sifu says, "hey you're really getting that, really coming along."

Now, for me, thats both a source of pride but also humbling, because here's this expert telling me that I'm doing good now, on the road to doing great. Thats a responsibility and a healthy source for being humble. I mean, there's a gift there. I don't know if that makes sense to most...

Respect OTOH, is often forced/faux, whatever... mostly because kwoons have an imported notion of it. What passes for respect in the USA or West isn't such in CMAs [esp. in the realm of criticism- in the West, criticism is sometimes respect, meaning that we only take seriously and look closely at what we do respect], but never in the kwoon, nope.

So we wind up with not being able to talk constructively at times, being super-sensitive to critiques...charges of arrogance come about blah blah.

Feh, just rambling...

[Starchaser107]

tony m. : "This is the one I hate. The ability to be teachable by anyone. "
__________________________________________________

specifically me, now humble thyself , shut up and learn

:p

but seriously folks , here's an example of how "honest self assessment works :
http://www.joanlloyd.com/articles/open.asp?art=870.htm

and here is an example of humility

"Humility:
The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much. Thus we say that a man is of humble birth or that a house is a humble dwelling. As restricted to persons, humility is understood also in the sense of afflictions or miseries, which may be inflicted by external agents, as when a man humiliates another by causing him pain or suffering. It is in this sense that others may bring about humiliations and subject us to them. Humility in a higher and ethical sense is that by which a man has a modest estimate of his own worth, and submits himself to others. According to this meaning no man can humiliate another, but only himself, and this he can do properly only when aided by Divine grace. We are treating here of humility in this sense, that is, of the virtue of humility."-
an excerpt from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm

[Starchaser107]

I think linguistics has alot to do with this debate.
what a word means in your head might not always be the same as what it actually means.

[Starchaser107]

lol.:D

been trying to forget it for a significantly less time abt. 10 years of my 26.
still it seemed applicable to the discussion.

[neit]

i don't practice humility as much as i should these days. impatience seems to be my vice, but i certainly respect it in others.

[Chang Style Novice]

Humiliation is the most important factor in learning martial arts. That's why I always do my forms in public places while wearing fishnet pantyhose stuffed with raw banana pulp.

[Starchaser107]

that was you...:eek:

[Shaolin-Do]

"That's why I always do my forms in public places while wearing fishnet pantyhose stuffed with raw banana pulp."

You could have just said you do forms in public... We already know your preffered attire.
:eek:
:D

[Chang Style Novice]

The best part is it's so hellaciously intimidating in the ring.

[Starchaser107]

unless the other guy really likes you, i suppose :(

[Shaolin-Do]

CSN just wants an excuse for why his drawers are always sagging in the back.
:eek:

:D

[bodhitree]

bobo has a humble attitude:eek:

[Shaolin-Do]

Getting slapped around is quite humbling.

[Fen]

I feel as a human being humility is a must. But as a student in CMA and a Sifu I also feel that respect must be practiced! But getting Respect can only be earned!

~Jason

[bung bo]

i feel like if i don't have some kind of inward humility all the time, i'm not being honest with myself about myself. i do think it is necessary to have some humility in yourself to be able to excell. i've developed more humility through my MA training. but, there is definately a time to be outwardly humble and a time not to be. i never brag about my abilities.