Seeking Knowledge / Opinions

[Searing Palm]

Greetings fellow artists of both internal and external forms:

I am new to this forum and, like many of you, have a great interest in martial arts, though I've not been able to practice them much due to various aspects of life. However, I now have the time and drive to learn a martial art and am currently conducting research on various forms. One form I am interested in is Haipkido, and please forgive me if I have misspelled this. I do not like butchering names. In general, I am interested in martial arts forms that have a system of circular arm and hand movements that contain palm strikes, shoulder strikes and elbow strikes. In terms of kicking, I would like to learn to utilize kicks that are not only effective in real combat, but also enable me to enter, trap, counter and parry effectively.

I would like anyone to offer their opinion on what they believe to be a good martial arts form that provides these aspects. Please feel free to be completely honest. I am looking for an art that is less aesthetically pleasing and more effective in "real world" situations. One important aspect I am in search of is Fa-Jing. From what I have learned and observed, Fa-Jing is quite effective if used properly. The release of energy makes for an effective strike and I definitely want to learn this aspect. I thank you all for your time and appreciate any and all response. Peace unto you all :-)

Searing Palm

[Starchaser107]

searing palm,
welcome aboard
this post would generate more replies on the main forum even though it is related to other arts.
there are lots of martial arts that are arguably as realistic, or moreso than hapkido, which is a good art.

as a chinese martial arts stylist id have to my part to advocate most of the "popular" chinese martial arts as highly effective.
barring contemporary wushu, which is less martial and more demonstrative.

investigate hsing-i,baji, nothern shaolin, wing chun, choy li fut, hung gar and eagle claw...


(edit) oh i see you beat me to the punch and posted it on the main forum as well :)

[Searing Palm]

Starchaser 107:

Thank you for such a fast response and also teaching me the correct spelling of Hapkido lol I feel much beeter now that I know how to spell that. Actually I have spoken with a few people about Baji and have been told that, from what they have seen, much energy is used in stomping rather than in the striking aspects. What you have you observed about this? Baji has interested me because of its fluidity in circular movements, palm and shoulder strokes, as well as the fa-jing, but I do not want to channel my chi into my stomping and remove Chi from my palm or fist strikes.

I shall investigate Hsing-I, Northern Shaolin, Choy Li Fut, Hung Gar and Eagle Claw. Actually I have done some research with Eagle Claw and it also looks as if it has some effectiveness though I do not know if there are shoulder strikes. As you can tell, I like shoulder strikes lol I just think that I would be able to channel a good amount of jing into my shoulder strikes. Are there any teachers you know in the San Francisco Bay Area of any of these styles you'd recommend I speak with? Just curious. Also, what style do you play? Thanks again for the enlightment. I shall keep in touch about what I decide upon. Trust me, I posted to a few forums, just in case lol Peace :-)

Searing Palm

[ZIM]

The stomp is a topic all its own.

Different arts, IMVHO, generate fa-jing in slightly different fashions, or at least value differing kinds of power transfer in general.

So, for example- wing chun might value a more steady elbow and moving like a sack of potatoes while hsing-yi values fa-jing and a more dynamic follow-through. I can't speak for Baji at all, though.

Sometimes I view the stomp somewhat in relation to that thing that Kramer used to do on Seinfeld, you know, slide in and stop suddenly... :p Sure, there's alot to it. But you're not wasting energy so much as 'throwing it into' the opponent. If you have Baji in your area, go for it, esp. if you like the school.

[ZIM]

Side note: SP- you were saying 'real world' applications- what sort of dimension are we talking here, if I may ask? Is this for work, military, self-defense, competition etc? Some arts are more appropriate for some things, I tend to think.

FWLIW, the USMC is now incorporating Hsing-yi moves into their HTH program- I don't know if thats the kind of proof you want, though: it means that they've appreciated it's attacking value....

[Starchaser107]

I study Nothern Shaolin and Eagle Claw

i play capoiera;)

no, not familiar with any schools in san fran. but best of luck in your search.
cheers.

[Searing Palm]

Starchaser 107: Ah, I've not seen anyone play Capoiera for some time :-) I like the rhythm of that art. Northern Shaolin and Eagle Claw, very nice. As far as the locks and kicks in both of those arts, what do you like about them?

ZIM: Thanks for your replies :-) When I refer to "real world" applications, I refer to self-defense, say from street attack. I'm definitely not a military or police man so that does not apply to me lol The Kramer Stomp is quite good too ;-) The self-defense I am in search of not only utilizes the circular hand movements, palm, shoulder and elbow strikes, but utilizes kicks that can actually be effective.

[Starchaser107]

I think both systems are well rounded ,unlike other arts that focus on grappling alone, kicking alone , or hand techs alone.

in both there's great attention to footwork, practical fighting either standing or on the ground, and lots of other interesting things,that have kept me occupied and eager to learn more for the past seven years.
also a great health benefit.

[ZIM]

I don't think anybody's going to say that their own art is useless for fighting, so we'll just leave that alone.. ;)


The self-defense I am in search of not only utilizes the circular hand movements, palm, shoulder and elbow strikes, but utilizes kicks that can actually be effective. Here is what can be worked with- you're saying circular hand moves, so thats pretty much common [after all, how does your arm move? Circular-ly...] and in the Bay area, just throw a rock, you'll find a school- you are in the capital for KF- shop around some.

Next: what kind of stance-work/footwork do you want? Choy Li Fut has relatively more stable/smaller stances than say Ba Gua, but both can be quite circular. Do you want to move fast and plan for many opponents, or take out one, then move on to next? BG again, for the first, WC for the next, maybe. [should add- not an expert on the variances in these, just opinion! take with a grain of salt]

And, last important Q: How quickly do you want effectiveness/how impatient are you? Tai Ji is a great art- but might take some time, IMO. CLF may take less for time for immediate results, depending on school, etc.

it always comes down to what you're comfortable with and challenged by/interested in, though.

[Searing Palm]

ZIM:

Excellent points made. I'm still trying to figure out what types of stances I am not only comfortable with but what I can use to be effective for my build. I am 6'2", 170 lbs., yes, pretty thin...lol...and have pretty long legs. I would like to be able to move quickly in case I am facing numerous opponents, or in the case of one opponent, perhaps use deeper stances. I say circular movements because, for example, what I have seen of Wing Chun, the movements of the hands and arms are linear.

As far as patience, I am very patient but would like to see some results in a few months of solid, dedicated training. What I mean by results is this: When training and practicing, after a few months, I would like to be able to utilize a set of moves in real-life applications. I have friends who are interested in martial arts and we would spar very slowly and methodically to better understand the various applications of what we're learning. While doing so, I would like to be able to execute a move or a few moves that would show me that I am not only learning how to use them correctly, but to show my mind that I am. It's easy for me to perform moves physically but mentally I do not understand or visualize their real combat, self-defense effectiveness.

Baji, Bagua and Hapkido, for now, are at the top of my list, but I have much research to conduct. Tai Ji seems good and I know nothing of Choy Li Fut...yet anyway :-)

[ZIM]

http://www.joybotsin.com/update.htm

I think these guys are near you, but I don't know anything about them- they may be worth a look... certainly you could see if they'll let you in for a sample class or something... also- I believe you have Yau Kung Moon in your area- thats pretty rare, IIRC. Perhaps someone can help you with describing that.

Got to go now- good luck!