wu sau in SLT

[foolinthedeck]

hey all

i may have posted on this before months ago but i cant remember, and the board seems dereft of pure technique threads at the moment.

anyone who knows me at all know that i emphasise relaxation, both in SLT and chi sau and in general.

When i first learnt SLT (based on my memory of when i first learnt it and could be wrong) i did wu sau in this way:

from end of tan, huen sau and then jup down dropping wrist approx two inches, but ending jup with wu sau fingers at same height as they were in tan (ok?), then withdrawing wu sau, thumb bent over at first knuckle, not tensed but bent. fingers straight up, palm at right angle to body, palm in centre, elbow 'out' (why??? i dont know but i did ok?). to go to fuk i'd drop into fuk hand wrist, and bring elbow in to body.

now my new class does it this way:

from end of tan, huen sau to certain point (hard to describe) then relaxing still wrist comes down in fluid motion, no jupp, finger tips dont rise, just follow wrist downwards. now to return wu sau, whole hand relaxed, thumb not bent, palm facing same direction as arm - not staright out, not at right angle to body, just relaxed, withdraw from elbow, keeping elbow in but not to extreme. drops into fuk, elbow already at body.

so really my question is this: since i emphasise relaxation, why did i ever do it the other way since its more tense, rigid, and restrictive? Perhaps there are some reasons but they escape me. any general critique of either way of doing it - if you can understand my descriptions are welcomed - especially from Dezhen2001, or any other Tse students.

thanks

[Phenix]

Is it about relax or is it about one emphasis in application points and other emphasis in relax and flow?

one can never step at the same flowing water twice. either for flow or for application ... that is up to one. nothing good or bad. just what do you want?

[dezhen2001]

dont have anything really to say that i didnt already off-forum... im sure people who have much more experience than my attempts at wing chun will be able to explain more - but i agree with what phenix said too.

dawood

[Phenix]

SLT can be come windflowers.

one step wrong one can get trap in it.
why do you think people create more then one SLT sets?
if they were not lost in it?


SLT is simple, very simple that one can't believe whatever you do is right. SLT is complex, very complicated that one can't believe how technological involve it is.

What do one looking for in SLT? that makes one lost. It is similar to the "thus reality or the Buddha nature", once one attach to one pice when one either don't think it is proper or think it is proper, it becomes attachment and lost its fullness and liveliness...... And all hyphothesis were born.... time... space.... they all lost the "now", lost in time space or the thoughts of what is correct or who to emulate or what is the purpose... Trap oneself in the mind of oneself.

Thus, it is said " with yout own mind you grasp your own thought. what is not illusive become illusive. if you don't grasp there is no root of illusive, how can illusive gave rise?"


stop that time, space, right, wrong..... thought stream and pattern... emulate GM so and so......what is the purpose..... what is the proper way to do tan sau... fok sau.... why this the master do it this way and that.... and is there advance SLT... or secret teaching..... what was written in the Kuen kuit in detail.....

Just relax go throught it...and experience it as it is....without judgement and day after day... it will appear....
.otherwise everything will be like sweet boutque disappears like the vapor in the desert when the real moment come.

If the mind trouble you stop it just "listen". if the eyes trouble you blindflod it and continous on. keep waling when you arrive home you will "know"
--------------------

(spoken)
windflowers

windflowers, my father told me not to go near them
he said he feared them always and he told me that they carried him away

windflowers, beautiful windflowers, i couldn't wait to touch them
to smell them i held them closely and now i cant break away

their sweet boutque disappears like the vapor in the desert
so...take them away son.....

windflowers....ancient windflowers their beauty captures every
young dreamer who lingered near them
ancient windflowers i love you

(sung)
windflowers
my father told me not to
go near them
he feared them always
said they carried him away

windflowers
i couldn't wait to touch them
to smell them
i held them closely
now i cannot break away

their sweet boutque disappears
like the vapor in the desert
make a whining sound

windflowers
their beauty captures every
young dreamer
who lingered near them
ancient windflowers i love you

[Gandolf269]

foolinthedeck-

why did i ever do it the other way since its more tense, rigid, and restrictive?


If the tension is a natual tension (brought about by position not by flexing muscles) then it is not a bad thing. And, it can add a natural strength to the movement. This natural tention prevents you from having to add your own tension in order to hold the position of a paticular movement. Adding tension by having to fex muscles is a bad thing.

For example - when doing bong sau having the palm of your hand facing your oponent (finger tips in line with the forearm) adds tension to the arm. Where as, if you make a bong sau and have the side of your hand towards the opponent (palm facing the ground), there is no tension. But the natural tension provided by twisting your hand to face out (as in the first example) adds strenght to the bong sau movement by preventing the bong sau from being easily collapsed by the force of your opponent. Without the natural tension (as in the second example), you would have to actively prevent collapse by tensing your muscles.

I don't know about the new way you are learning, but I would suggest be patient and learn the way your new sifu teaches. Then you can make an "informed" decision as to which way is best for you.

[e-Warrior]

This is a variation on the old relaxation versus tension argument. Which one's best?

Those of you that have read my previous postings will know that I think the question irrelevant. My own personal experience and belief is that they're inseparable.

All I can say is that position wise, the first description of Wu seems almost identical to the way I'd expect it. To me, the second seems weaker.

Also, don't forget that the way these techniques are trained in the form is not necessarily the way they're actually used. Even those of us who tense these things in the first section don't apply that kind of tension during application. It depends.

From your post, foolinthedeck, it seems you've switched sifu's (naughty!). Who's your new teacher?

[PaulH]

Just relax go throught it...and experience it as it is....without judgement and day after day... it will appear....

Hendrik,


How do we know for sure that this way of training like pretty flowers won't give us lemons to eat at our end of the road?

Lemon Tree Lyrics
Peter, Paul & Mary

When I was just a lad of ten, my father said to me,
"Come here and take a lesson from the lovely lemon tree."
"Don't put your faith in love, my boy," my father said to me,
"I fear you'll find that love is like the lovely lemon tree."

Lemon tree, very pretty, and the lemon flower is sweet,
But the fruit of the lemon is impossible to eat.
Lemon tree, very pretty, and the lemon flower is sweet,
But the fruit of the lemon is impossible to eat.

One day beneath the lemon tree, my love and I did lie,
A girl so sweet that when she smiled, the stars rose in the sky.
We passed that summer lost in love, beneath the lemon tree,
The music of her laughter hid my father's words from me.

One day she left without a word, she took away the sun.
And in the dark she left behind, I knew what she had done.
She left me for another, it's a common tale but true,
A sadder man, but wiser now, I sing these words to you.

Regards,

[anerlich]

Can the quoting (especially in full) of execrable pop songs be made a banning offence?

Ditto the incusion of bad poetry in a post.

Far too much of both lately.

Just a suggestion.

In the PP&M vein:

If I had a ha-a--mmer...
the emergency rooms would be full

[PaulH]

All good fun must come to a break especially when the other keeps hammering away. I'll be back. Ha! Ha!

[Phenix]

The great and beauty of a democratic world is alowed everyone to be able to freely express their ideas with a basis of not attacking others.