Anybody heard of Wudong Wing Shun?

[Train]

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/index2.html



Just wondering if anyone is learning this style of WCK.

[canglong]

Thanks for the link Train. This website is new to me and I found the family tree to be very interesting.

[Rolling_Hand]

Hi Hendrik,

Is there any connection between Emie and Wudang WCK??



History and developement of Wudang Weng Shun Kuen


by Rien Bul
In our modern society it is getting more and more necessary to be able to defend oneself. The Chinese culture, the oldest living culture in the world, has many thousands of years of experience with creating systems of self-defense. One of the most effective is no doubt Wudang Weng Shun Kuen, a style that is known for its pragmatic approach. But where did this miraculous style emerge from? The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan). The following article tells all.

A secret Shaolin style

When one was trained in the Shaolin temple one was first taught the 'hard' or 'external' forms. The forms that followed would gradually soften. The main philosofy behind this way of teaching was that it was harder for the novice to understand the 'hard' principles than the 'soft'.

The most advanced forms and techniques were kept highly secret and would only be taught to disciples who had already proven their trustworthyness. According to legend these last two 'secret' forms were taught in a hidden hall, called the 'Weng Shun Tong' (Hall of eternal spring). These forms were the Snake-form, a form that taught the disciple spirit, intent and deceptiveness. The other was the Crane-form and it taught the ultimate softness.

From Shaolin to Wudang

When the Shaolin temple was burned down once again by imperial troops some of the Shaolin monks who had studied the highest knowledge of Kung Fu were scattered over China. It is said that some Shaolin monks saught refuge in the Daoist Wudang temple and taught their Kung Fu knowledge to the disciples of the temple. For some reason they taught the soft styles immideatly, maybe because there was little time.

Wudang Quan

Through the centuries the Kung Fu practised in the Wudang temple aquired its own distinctive Daoist flavour. Wudang Kung Fu became known for it's softness, wich was little understood by outsiders. To this day, Wudang styles are schrouded by a sort of mystical veil.

In time a lot of the knowledge behind Wudang Kung Fu got lost and it fell apart in different styles, that all believe to possess the gospel truth on soft-style Kung Fu. The most well known of these styles are TaiJi Quan, Hsing Yi and BaguaZhang. But there are many more little known styles.

White Crane

Other styles filled the gaps in their knowledge with easier to understand 'hard' techniques. One of these so called soft/hard styles is the modern version of the original crane style. There are many different versions of this style. Some versions have more 'hard' techniques than others. Some of them have managed to mainly stay 'soft'.

The Qing Dynasty

The last imperial dynasty to rule China was called the Qing. The Han majority of the time weren't very happy about being ruled by the Manchu minority. They did all they could to bring down the Ching and restore the rule of the Ming dynasty that preceded it. The monks from both the Shaolin temple and the Wudang temple weren't very fond of the Manchu government either. They taught their knowledge of warfare to rebels who were out to overthrow this government. The widest spread styles among anti-Qing rebels were the Wudang- and Yong Chun versions of (White) Crane Kung Fu.

The 'Red Junk' period

Many rebels hid on opera boats. These boats, that were recogniseable by their red colour travelled from city to city on rivers and canals. On arrival they would build a stage to perform their operas. On these boats, in conjunction with the opera people, the rebels founded secret anti-Qing societies like the "Precious Jade" and "Red Flower" unions, whose secret symbol was a red plum flower. As a password, to recognise like-minded, they used a three-parted phrase: "Weng chi ji" (Speak convincingly), "Monlong jong yuk" (Think of the Han), "Dai day wu chung" (And spring will come again), that would later be shortened to "Weng Shun". The rebels in hiding were often trained in the martial arts. The junks became a breeding-ground where new martial arts were developed. The styles practiced aboard the red junks were, of course, still very individual. Many of the rebels were, prior to their boarding, well trained in some of the systems that were to be found in the area. Styles like (pre-Wong Feihong) Hung Ga/Kuen, Choy (Gao Yee) Kuen, Bak Hok Kuen and others. All of these styles they modified for usage in narrow places like there were on the junks, in small hotel-rooms and in alleys. The fighting moves had to occupy as little space as possible, so they had to be made smaller. When possible, fights would be fought close in, even body to body. These principles can still be found in modern-day Weng Shun Kuen. They exchanged ways to accomplish their goals and so the vague features of a new style were beginning to take form...

These anti-Manchu styles all had the name Weng Shun Kuen (Perpetual Spring Fist/style) attached to their names so there could be no mistake about their intentions; to overthrow the Qing and return the Ming. There was a.o. a 'Hung Weng Shun Kuen' (Red Perpetual Spring Fist/style), a 'Bak Hok Weng Shun Kuen' (White Crane Perpetual Spring Fist/style) and also a 'Wudang Weng Shun Kuen'(Wu Tang Yong Shun Quan, Perpetual Spring Fist/style from Wudang). When the rebellion became obsolete some of the styles felt there was no need for themselves to call their style Weng Shun Kuen anymore and dropped the name. They became known as Hung Kuen, Bak Hok Kuen, Chu Gar etc. The 'Wudang' version held its name in high esteem to honour its roots.

The arrival of an opera troupe was quite an event that attrackted all kinds of people engaging in commercial activeties. There were merchants, quaks, thieves, fortunetellers and of course, prostitutes.Those prostitutes mostly worked on so called "flower boats". Prostitutes, by the way, worked under aliases, such as "Plum Flower" or "Beautiful Springtime", etc. Most flowerboat-girls also hated the Manchu and worked with the red junk rebels. And sometimes, when a Ching official would visit such a girl, a rebel would be hiding in a closet. When the official had dismissed his bodyguards so he could be alone with the prostitute, the assasin would suddenly kill the unsuspecting victim. In other cases the rebels would ambush people they wanted out of the way in the narrow alleys of the Cantonese cities. They specialised in making this narrowness of both boats and alleys work in their advatage. To this end a style of fighting was created that suited the rebels' needs. The movements of this style would be modified to take up very little space. The techniques were designed to finish off an opponent in the shortest possible time. They called their style Weng Shun Kuen (Everlasting Springtime Fist).

This version of the style is the one that is still mostly practised on mainland China. Another version, which name was in time accidently changed to 'Wing Chun Kuen' (Springtime Song Fist), was brought to Hong Kong by Yip Man and aquired world wide fame. Recently, the mailand versions are stepping in the spotlight as well. The most well known are '(Shaolin)Chi Sim Weng Chun Kuen', 'Chan Yiu Min Weng Chun Kuen', 'Pang Nam Weng Chun Kuen', 'Hung Fa yi/Hung Suen Weng Chun Kuen', 'Pao Fa Lien Weng Chun Kuen' and 'Wudang Weng Shun Kuen'.

[yuanfen]

Lots of different claims about wing chun. I have visited that site before and was not fascinated by it.
In any case- one can believe what they want but the following
statement flys in the face of what is well established taiji history.

Also problematic is the spatial relationship between Wudang and Shaolin.


"The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan)."

[Rolling_Hand]

<<Leung Shum Dit (A.K.A. "Sun Kam"?)>>Wudang family tree

What's the relationship between Sun Kam (Wudang) and YiK Kam (Hendrik's Emie)???

Are they the same person?

[Phenix]

Joy,

watches more hongkong movies and we will know where wck is from.:D

[reneritchie]

San Kam is aka Dai Fa Min Kam, ancestor of the (Jee Shim) Weng Chun Kuen system. This site/system claims he (and Fung Siu-Ching, I believe) also taught a different kind of Wing Chun, something derived from the Hebei Wudang Mountains, different in kind to what Fung taught the Lo, Tang, Dong families, and the Yuen brothers and the other late students.

There have been rumors in China that Fung Siu-Ching was originally from the north, even from Hebei. Henry Leung once said all of Wing Chun Kuen derived from Fung Siu-Ching who brought Xingyiquan from Hebei and developed it into Wing Chun Kuen (though he seems to have primarily taught Fujian, not Hebei, style martial arts to his more well known students).

Anything is possible, and in the wide world of martial arts, even more is claimed, so stories, as ever, remain stories, and if someone is interested in a teacher of this system, they should probably visit, see what it had to offer, decide if it meshes up with their needs, and go from there.

(And no, there is no relation to Yik Kam (even without a basic knowledge of Chinese, that much is evident ;) ), though Wudang and Emei, along with Shaolin, remain a holy trinity all their own ;)

[Phenix]

RH,

San kam is from with Chisim weng chun kuen line . Thanks Rene.


and now------




One of the most effective is no doubt Wudang Weng Shun Kuen, a style that is known for its pragmatic approach. But where did this miraculous style emerge from? The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan). The following article tells all.

A secret Shaolin style

When one was trained in the Shaolin temple one was first taught the 'hard' or 'external' forms. The forms that followed would gradually soften. The main philosofy behind this way of teaching was that it was harder for the novice to understand the 'hard' principles than the 'soft'.

The most advanced forms and techniques were kept highly secret and would only be taught to disciples who had already proven their trustworthyness. According to legend these last two 'secret' forms were taught in a hidden hall, called the 'Weng Shun Tong' (Hall of eternal spring). These forms were the Snake-form, a form that taught the disciple spirit, intent and deceptiveness. The other was the Crane-form and it taught the ultimate softness.

From Shaolin to Wudang

When the Shaolin temple was burned down once again by imperial troops some of the Shaolin monks who had studied the highest knowledge of Kung Fu were scattered over China. It is said that some Shaolin monks saught refuge in the Daoist Wudang temple and taught their Kung Fu knowledge to the disciples of the temple. For some reason they taught the soft styles immideatly, maybe because there was little time.

Wudang Quan

Through the centuries the Kung Fu practised in the Wudang temple aquired its own distinctive Daoist flavour. Wudang Kung Fu became known for it's softness, wich was little understood by outsiders. To this day, Wudang styles are schrouded by a sort of mystical veil.

In time a lot of the knowledge behind Wudang Kung Fu got lost and it fell apart in different styles, that all believe to possess the gospel truth on soft-style Kung Fu. The most well known of these styles are TaiJi Quan, Hsing Yi and BaguaZhang. But there are many more little known styles.


-----------------


RH, WOW

burning of shaolin is a big bang of martial art. and original of wck is the original of big bang theory?

in the past article is about the oldest wck.
now it is even older then taiji? I wish Chen XiaoWang don't feel sad
:D

other subject,
since i love to look into watch history...
sometimes, i hope people get smarter and learn from these people
http://store.yahoo.com/replica-haven/index.html



but even that they call themself replica.

[reneritchie]

burning of shaolin is a big bang of martial art.

Would that make the Internet the 'big crunch'?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie


Would that make the Internet the 'big crunch'?

So we need to rewrite the WCK his-story based on BIG BANG
and bring up the business climax with BIG CRUNCH in internet!
Good Business everyone is happy. and it is only show business anyway. it is business. So some wear the Daoist wear, some wear the buddhist monk ware... making moviest similar to the Shaw's brothers... show business :D


See, every 40 years there is a change in economy ...and every 80 years there is a big change in everything.

the first baby boom wave started at 1920/1930's changes the economics in 1940 to 1960's. the second baby boom wave starts from 1950 to 1961 changes the economics now till 2009. and the baby boomers of 1880 influent 1920......

So the baby boom of WCK from 1920/1930 erra changes WCK in 1940 to 1960's. now this is the time the second baby boom wave of 1950 /1960's to change wck.

and WCk after 80 years since 1920/1930, where the time of YKS, Chan Lo Min, Yip Man, and Cho on... time. Now it is the time of the big bang transformation....

Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960's problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.:D

[Rolling_Hand]

<<Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960's problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.>>Hendrik


Hendrik, You can become a speaker just by creating the symptoms - that's what Peevee Herman does as an actor. Stick with Hendrik's big bang, and please inform us about your new book - "the White Crane Water Palm Wing Chun by Hendrik Santo".

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
<<Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960's problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.>>Hendrik


Hendrik, You can become a speaker just by creating the symptoms - that's what Peevee Herman does as an actor. Stick with Hendrik's big bang, and please inform us about your new book - "the White Crane Water Palm Wing Chun by Hendrik Santo".



RH,

Thank you.

My new book?

It might called

The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK which Rolling Hand and others tries to destroy.

Or

This Is WCK according to REAL exist ANCESTORS of WCK --- not based on big bang of shao lin
:D

Based on your post, and other data, this book is not your level. so why waste your money on something you don't need.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
<<Leung Shum Dit (A.K.A. "Sun Kam"?)>>Wudang family tree

What's the relationship between Sun Kam (Wudang) and YiK Kam (Hendrik's Emie)???

Are they the same person?


RH,

As Rene's anwers on Sun {new} Kam , You are asking in a wrong direction. the {old }kam had nothing todo with Wudang.

Here is the direction clue you want to search in,
or might want to ask canglong, savi, train, desert, chango.... they know about shaolin connection and the weng chun kuen. so they can help you more with wudang.




I wasn't aware of the influence of 'Tiger' or 'Tiger Claw' Kung Fu on (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen until recently. Granted, we DO have the famous 'Tiger tail kick' in our style's curriculum, but that was about it. Some time ago Grandmaster Hoffmann of the (Sil Lum) Chi Sim Weng Chun Kuen branch was kind enough to send me his magnificent book on his style. I can't thank him enough for this grand gesture and highly recommend his book to all Weng Shun Kuen enthusiasts. His style displays quite a few tiger techniques. I got curious and reviewed all hand techniques my Sifu taught me, looking for tiger-influences on my own particular style. Also, I had heard from other sources about an alledged Dragon (Loong Ying) style influence on Weng Shun Kuen. Like the Tiger style, Dragon-Kung Fu is well known for its gripping techniques. I don't know enough about both styles to distinguish Tiger and Dragon style grips from one another. But I found that the clawing grips my own Sifu taught me to use on pressure-points, bears a remarkable resemblance to both! I was just never told that these were either Tiger or Dragon Claw techniques. My Sifu never even called it "clawing". He just showed me the correct position the hand should have to apply the right amount of pressure on the right point and that was that! In his opinion, who would care about the technique's name, as long as it worked? He was right, of course. Historically it is interesting, isn't it?

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by Hendrik

My new book?

It might called

The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK which Rolling Hand and others tries to destroy.

Or

This Is WCK according to REAL exist ANCESTORS of WCK --- not based on big bang of shao lin

-----------------------------------------

Hendrik,

What is your point of saying "The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK"???

Sometimes a burger may be just a burger, and nothing but a burger. In your case, it is white crane burger. No one here (including RH) tries to eat your burger!

So, what's your problem???

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Rolling Hand,


May I ask you what arts (or art) do you feel WC developed from?


Regards,

[yuanfen]

Jim- please dont feed trolls.!!

[Jim Roselando]

Hiya Joy!


I usually avoid them but from time to time its nice to actually show people that the trolls make no sense! It helps keep the new people from getting taken to the Dark Side! hehehehe


See ya,

[Rolling_Hand]

<<May I ask you what arts (or art) do you feel WC developed from?>>Jim


Hello Jim,

It's good to see you here. Your question reminds me this...!!!!!!The Ch'an master doesn't try to solve personality problem, but guides the student with the teachings of Buddhadharma, the methods of practice, lesson No.1 Don't ask!

But if you really want to know what I feel WC developed from...

Try this,
Do 100,000 times of SNT
Do 100,000 times of CK
Do 100,000 times of BJ
Do 100,000 times of Mook Jong

Then,
Hopefully, you'll find the answer.

Rdgs

RH

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Appreciate your reply!


Let me translate it for the people who dont know how to read Troll;

Let me write some quasi wanna-be spiritual answer and avoid the simple question being asked of me.


Dont get me wrong! There is nothing wrong with being spriritual but when you use that for any question being asked it shows how it can be used to cover the lack of knowledge or lack of desire to truly provide input.

831 posts/0 input (and you attack Hendik) HA!


Thanks!


See ya,

[canglong]

originally posted by Jim Roselando
I usually avoid them but from time to time its nice to actually show people that the trolls make no sense!
Jim I can well understand why you would choose to use the words of others to make yourself appear smarter rather than those of your own. However those of us that understand the value of Rolling_Hand's words as well as the jibberish of Hendrik don't need you to dicipher who and what makes sense you seem to be having problems in that area you may need to deal with yourself.

[Jim Roselando]

Canglong,


Jim I can well understand why you would choose to use the words of others to make yourself appear smarter rather than those of your own. However those of us that understand the value of Rolling_Hand's words as well as the jibberish of Hendrik don't need you to dicipher who and what makes sense you seem to be having problems in that area you may need to deal with yourself.

I appreciate your reply! You are correct! Who am I to watch out for the newbies. I guess I just dont want to see people go thru what I went thru over the years.

Perhpas I should ingore the 831 empty posts that seem to follow anything said by Hendrik, Rene or others right? Its just too bad those who know dont speak! Words to live by!


;)


Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
Originally posted by Hendrik

Hendrik,

1 What is your point of saying "The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK"???

2 Sometimes a burger may be just a burger, and nothing but a burger. In your case, it is white crane burger. No one here (including RH) tries to eat your burger!



1, so that Rolling Hand and others will try everything to destroy it :D.


2, Mac donard will not care if you eat or not at Mac donard.:D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
<<May I ask you what arts (or art) do you feel WC developed from?>>Jim


Hello Jim,

It's good to see you here. Your question reminds me this...!!!!!!The Ch'an master doesn't try to solve personality problem, but guides the student with the teachings of Buddhadharma, the methods of practice, lesson No.1 Don't ask!

But if you really want to know what I feel WC developed from...

Try this,
Do 100,000 times of SNT
Do 100,000 times of CK
Do 100,000 times of BJ
Do 100,000 times of Mook Jong

Then,
Hopefully, you'll find the answer.

Rdgs

RH

Chan again? you still owe us you lineage, sifu.... in Chan. :D
Until then, no one is going to take you serious

[Rolling_Hand]

<<Chan again? you still owe us you lineage, sifu.... in Chan. >>HS

Dalai Lama used to say to his disciples, "Unless you have put your lineage in your back yark, you cannot dance with me."

<<Until then, no one is going to take you serious>>HS

Once Tao is understood, the whole business of psychoanalysis will disappear.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
<<Chan again? you still owe us you lineage, sifu.... in Chan. >>HS

Dalai Lama used to say to his disciples, "Unless you have put your lineage in your back yark, you cannot dance with me."

<<Until then, no one is going to take you serious>>HS

Once Tao is understood, the whole business of psychoanalysis will disappear.


Rolling Hand,

Using what Dalai lama said is not good. Chan is not Dalai Lama's field of expertise. and Damo doesn't has to dance with Dalai.

Damo,
Chan, Chan lineage, Chan patriach...has the say, not Dalai Lama.
So, you don't have it right?




In Chan. it doesn't matter one has a white horse or a black horse. the bottom line is if you have a horse show it if you don't than you dont make believe you have. and by the way that is breaking the precept of Lying.

[Train]

hahaha It's been fun reading all your posts. But ok enough with the Chan folks :)

So, Hendrik. What do you think about Wudong WC? Know anything about it?? and please do not answer with a question or any philosophical ....... you know what I mean.

maybe you too Jim R.





Peace out

[Rolling_Hand]

<<Using what Dalai lama said is not good. Chan is not Dalai Lama's field of expertise. and Damo doesn't has to dance with Dalai.>>HS

Hey Hendrik, So far all you have done is misquote, or quote out of context, and draw incorrect conclusions. Reread my post before mumbling!!!--RH

<<Damo,
Chan, Chan lineage, Chan patriach...has the say, not Dalai Lama.
So, you don't have it right?>>HS

Who's the owner of Ch'an? Nature gave men two ends --one to sit on and one to think with...this is known as the 7/11 of Ch'an. Ch'an has not left any mark on history--Damo, Hei Neng, Dalai Lama, Mao Tse-Dong, Napoleon, Hitler...etc they have their marks on history, but Ch'an??? Hendrik, you're confused.--RH

<<In Chan. it doesn't matter one has a white horse or a black horse. the bottom line is if you have a horse show it if you don't than you dont make believe you have. and by the way that is breaking the precept of Lying.>>HS

Wisdom comes with seeing all things as interconnected and having a reality and value that arises in spite of their temporary nature. The worst violation of the fourth precept, no lying, would be to tell someone that you are a speaker of Ch'an. hahaha...in taking the precepts, you should check yourself in regard to actions and speech. At this point, whether you practice to attain samadhi is another issue.--RH

[reneritchie]

There is no Chan. Understand that, and post yourself.

[Phenix]

Using what Dalai lama said is not good. Chan is not Dalai Lama's field of expertise. and Damo doesn't has to dance with Dalai.>>HS

Hey Hendrik, So far all you have done is misquote, or quote out of context, and draw incorrect conclusions. Reread my post before mumbling!!!--RH

hi RH,
the question just simply: what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu,........ what is that got to do with Dalai lama? you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

by the way, remember, Dalai Lama is from the Qing side to burn your mighty Shao Lin temple according to the Fact you believe in? you use him as reference? boy, you must be the shao lin treader . pretend to be Shao Lin!


<<Damo,
Chan, Chan lineage, Chan patriach...has the say, not Dalai Lama.
So, you don't have it right?>>HS

Who's the owner of Ch'an? Nature gave men two ends --one to sit on and one to think with...this is known as the 7/11 of Ch'an. Ch'an has not left any mark on history--Damo, Hei Neng, Dalai Lama, Mao Tse-Dong, Napoleon, Hitler...etc they have their marks on history, but Ch'an??? Hendrik, you're confused.--RH


owner or not, if you have a phd from MIT then you have. if you don't . doesn't matter MIT own by who. It seems that you don't understand even basic logic. if you have show you MIT certificated. if not, you are lying to HR and not hire . :D



<<In Chan. it doesn't matter one has a white horse or a black horse. the bottom line is if you have a horse show it if you don't than you dont make believe you have. and by the way that is breaking the precept of Lying.>>HS

Wisdom comes with seeing all things as interconnected and having a reality and value that arises in spite of their temporary nature. The worst violation of the fourth precept, no lying, would be to tell someone that you are a speaker of Ch'an. hahaha...in taking the precepts, you should check yourself in regard to actions and speech. At this point, whether you practice to attain samadhi is another issue.--RH

in chan , Wisdom starts with first not lying and not using show business words to divisify a simply question:

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

This question being post to you for many many month and you can be just a two year old rolling in the craddle don't know where you live yet.:D

[CarlDouglas108]

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.HS

In order to discuss Chan or know Chan......must we first wear the best designer labels?

Regards

CD

[Phenix]

Originally posted by CarlDouglas108
what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.HS

In order to discuss Chan or know Chan......must we first wear the best designer labels?

Regards

CD

When one post as a Wck expert,
don't one needs to learn from a wck sifu and from a wck lineage?

[canglong]

originally posted by phenix
When one post as a Wck expert, don't one needs to learn from a wck sifu and from a wck lineage? Have you asked everyone here who their sifu is and what lineage they are from before replying or do you just accept that everyone here is practicing wing chun or some form of martial art.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by canglong
Have you asked everyone here who their sifu is and what lineage they are from before replying or do you just accept that everyone here is practicing wing chun or some form of martial art.


Is it wrong to ask Rolling Hand who post as a Chan expert and Dao sage or whoever claim Chan is in thier WCK lineage where the Chan teaching comes from?


It is a simple post. Is ROlling Hand a real Chan Buddhism follower or not. Yes or no. and if you can answer for him do so . if you can't let Rolling Hand do it. That simple.

[Savi]

Originally posted by Phenix
Is it wrong to ask Rolling Hand who post as a Chan expert and Dao sage or whoever claim Chan is in thier WCK lineage where the Chan teaching comes from?


It is a simple post. Is ROlling Hand a real Chan Buddhism follower or not. Yes or no. and if you can answer for him do so . if you can't let Rolling Hand do it. That simple. 1. It is a fact (not a claim) that HFYWCK is based on Chan Buddhism. Because you do not study HFYWCK you are in no position to state otherwise. That is plain and simple.

2. If you're going through some major mood swings Phenix, don't take it out on Roger. That post was just rude.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Savi
1. It is a fact (not a claim) that HFYWCK is based on Chan Buddhism. Because you do not study HFYWCK you are in no position to state otherwise. That is plain and simple.

2. If you're going through some major mood swings Phenix, don't take it out on Roger. That post was just rude.


Savi,

Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested about HFYWCK and your story and your way of logic.


the question is for the rolling hand.

It is a simple post. Is ROlling Hand a real Chan Buddhism follower or not. Yes or no. and if you can answer for him do so . if you can't let Rolling Hand do it. That simple.

[CarlDouglas108]

Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested about HFYWCK and your story and your way of logic.HS

I am sure that all HFYWCK practioners, will keep this in mind on all your future posts.

Regards

CD

[Savi]

Originally posted by Phenix
Savi,

Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested about HFYWCK and your story and your way of logic.


the question is for the rolling hand. You're not interested in HFYWCK? Then why continue to mention:

whoever claim Chan is in thier WCK lineage if you aren't interested? This can only mean two things: you are interested or you are spiteful. Your distaste for this part of reality shows with your choice of words. All your talk about no self and you state the above? You know who the "whoever" is so just state that and let go of your fear.

Your response above shows much of your attachment to self and the "ME vs YOU" type perspective. First of all, I never gave you my story nor am I giving you a biased logic flow. Relax man, the universe is much bigger than you.

Carl, thanks for your understanding and perspective. We seem to see eye to eye.

[Phenix]

Savi,

Ok so you volumtee to present you lineage of Chan and you sifu of Chan buddhism?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by CarlDouglas108
Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested about HFYWCK and your story and your way of logic.HS

I am sure that all HFYWCK practioners, will keep this in mind on all your future posts.

Regards

CD

It is a free country, why should one force others to read and accept and agree with their view?

Anyone certainly free to ignore, delete, or throw my post into garbage.

[Savi]

Originally posted by Phenix
Savi,

Ok so you volumtee to present you lineage of Chan and you sifu of Chan buddhism? So now you're interested? Alright...

1. I don't know what "volumtee" means. Could you explain please?

2. No explanation will suffice for you, so why should I bother? You're focusing on things not relevant to Chan. Why? Chan points to an experience beyond words, beyond the materialistic. HFYWCK is founded on Chan teachings, it is not based on who has 'what' or who has done 'this'. You can find our lineage tree on the VTM website.

As far as I know.....
To open your perspective a bit, HFY has three basic corners:
1. combat --> Military & Shaolin; self defense & strategy and tactic
2. philosophy --> Chan Buddhism; spirituality & practicality
3. health --> Hei Gung, Faat Ging, Iron body; spirituality & physicality

All three together make up HFY.

From what I know there are many teachers in HFY history who specialized in each area of the system. To only look at one area is to miss the entire picture.

In any case, for something you can relate to better since you like to read - buy the book and it will offer better explanations than I could offer.

[reneritchie]

With respect to all humble argumentators, what's all this bickering got to do with Wudang Weng Shun Kuen?

[Savi]

Originally posted by reneritchie
With respect to all humble argumentators, what's all this bickering got to do with Wudang Weng Shun Kuen? I don't know Rene, who is bickering? I think Hendrik is really bent out of shape when it comes to Roger. He has a lot of finger pointing at Roger, and I didn't think it was fair.

I'm just addressing Hendrik's pride issues which he expresses in this thread. Then he asked me a question, should I not answer it even if I can? If it's in the thread, we can talk right? Hmmm....

[reneritchie]

So Wudang is in Hebei... interesting... Is that far from Foshan?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Savi
I don't know Rene, who is bickering? I think Hendrik is really bent out of shape when it comes to Roger. He has a lot of finger pointing at Roger, and I didn't think it was fair.

I'm just addressing Hendrik's pride issues which he expresses in this thread. Then he asked me a question, should I not answer it even if I can? If it's in the thread, we can talk right? Hmmm....



Rene, you have a great point.

Savi, Thanks for your infor, I will check it out later when I have more time.

as for pride..... hahaha... Chan buddhism right?---- answer is wrong not answer is also wrong, intepreted with self is wrong, dull is wrong.... Not thinking good not thinking evil, that is the original face..... hahahaha

Talk to you later.

[Train]

HI Rene,

I already tried to get back in to the Wudong WC topic but i guess Hendrik Ignored my post. hehehe the Chan master got cought up in an argument. Ohhhh wells :)






Peace Outy!!

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Train
HI Rene,

I already tried to get back in to the Wudong WC topic but i guess Hendrik Ignored my post. hehehe the Chan master got cought up in an argument. Ohhhh wells :)






Peace Outy!!


hahaha, you all always got cought up with Hendrik no matter in Shao LIn, Chan, Wudang..... hahahhahaa

[PaulH]

I admit that both the humorous question and answer are very trained! Ha! Ha!

Regards,

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by Hendrik

hi RH,
the question just simply: what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu,........ what is that got to do with Dalai lama? you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

by the way, remember, Dalai Lama is from the Qing side to burn your mighty Shao Lin temple according to the Fact you believe in? you use him as reference? boy, you must be the shao lin treader . pretend to be Shao Lin!

owner or not, if you have a phd from MIT then you have. if you don't . doesn't matter MIT own by who. It seems that you don't understand even basic logic. if you have show you MIT certificated. if not, you are lying to HR and not hire .
in chan , Wisdom starts with first not lying and not using show business words to divisify a simply question:

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok.

This question being post to you for many many month and you can be just a two year old rolling in the craddle don't know where you live yet.

----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Hendrik,

You are confused as always. Often your words are not backed up by actual experience. You enjoy peeping through the door and consider yourself a seeker, but that does not mean that you have deep enough karma roots to meet and interact with a bodhisattva. Sometimes a peeping Tom maybe just a peeing Tom, nothing but a peeping Tom. Unfortunalitely, it is usually difficult for an ordinary person to understand what is SOT FAAT?!? An environment where everyone mutually stimulates one another is healthy. Man shapes himself through decisions that shape his environment. Often you ask everyone many questions, but you don't like give your end of your stories (hint: Do you know how long have Jeremy, TenTiger and others been waiting for you??? And how many times have you sighed off and sighed on again???)

If you asked the same question to Shakyamuni, he would probably have told you this--Hendrik, please write down this sentence 100,000 times before asking your next question. "I, Hendrik Santo, I do not have the qualifactions to speak for Shakyamuni.Buddha, and I should have paid more attention to myself instead of others." The significance of man is that he is insignificant and is aware of it. Now, Hendrik, you have some homework to do....Hum

[Phenix]

Hi all,

Hahaha, see RH, Train,...and company
"hahaha, you all always got cought up with Hendrik no matter in Shao LIn, Chan, Wudang..... hahahhahaa"

A Simple Question even a 9year old can answer


' Rolling Hand,

what is your chan lineage, chan monk sifu.......you have it or not? answer yes or no. if yes, then ---all the info. no, you don't know chan and it is ok. -"

But a whole team of Experts going from tibert's dalai lama to shao lin to wudang to nepal's skykamuni buddha to blame and attack Hendrik, but cannot answer such a simple question.

By the way, RH,

"If you asked the same question to Shakyamuni, he would probably have told you this--Hendrik, please write down this sentence 100,000 times before asking your next question. "I, Hendrik Santo, -----I do not have the qualifactions---- to speak for Shakyamuni.Buddha, and I should have paid more attention to myself instead of others.--RH"

you are rolling hand not shakyamuni buddha even you can keep pretend.



"Unfortunalitely, it is usually difficult for an ordinary person to understand ..... ---RH"

certainly true, if one doesnt have a lineage, and sifu or guru. one doesnt even know what the heck one is talking about. so how can others understand?

If one never even see and used a real window xp based computer in the real life. certainly, when was asked about cpu, software, password....is useless. Because, one will always uses a personal opinion of Apple computer history and 80's jagong term try explain what is a password.

I really enjoy this but don't waste others' posting wave lenght.
Get Back to Wudang as Train, and Savi...... post

[Savi]

Looks like it's time to meditate... a close friend of mine emailed me some quotations for thought. Perhaps it will help here Train with those who are lost.

"There is no difficulty about the Perfect Way. Only we must avoid the making of discriminations. When we are freed from hate and love, it will reveal itself as clearly as broad daylight." - Seng Ts'an

"Striving to leave the wilderness you become part of what's wild. Striving to cease grasping is, itself, grasping. So how do you gain control and get beyond desire? Open those eyes... the ones that were born in your own skull." - Hsu Yun (Empty Cloud)

[Train]

Right on Savi!!!! :)

[William E]

Thanks Rolling Hand for your continued participation and putting a smile on my face and to Savi for his sharing.

Hendrick Wrote >> If one never even see and used a real window xp based computer in the real life. certainly, when was asked about cpu, software, password....is useless. Because, one will always uses a personal opinion of Apple computer history and 80's jagong term try explain what is a password.

I am starting to use a new Windows XP based computer this week and have experienced nothing but crashes with one of the applications that is running. Don't know what your point is Hendrick and I don't think you do either....

What does this have to do with Wudong Wing Shun?

William E.

[planetwc]

Then if Rolling Hand does not study Chan how is he in a position to state anything regarding Chan?

If Rolling Hand does not study HFYWCK then how is he in a position to state anything regarding HFYWCK?

Either Rolling Hand has a formal background in Chan, and can list it or he can't. Plain and simple.

Seems interesting that RH is cut all this slack on BOTH fronts, and then HFY folks ask Hendrik the same questions about BOTH areas as well?

Hendrik is a lineage holder of a branch of Wing Chun Kuen.
Hendrik is a personal disciple of a Chan master.

So where and what are the ever anonymous Roger's bona fides?
Other than he is a cheerleader for HFY without any training in it?
And recycles quotes from fortune cookies and old episodes of Kung Fu, as Ch'an one liners?

In any case, this will go nowhere, with more empty posts from RH, sideline cheering from the usual suspects etc. etc.

I think rude, would be calling someone's skills bankrupt, but hey that's just me.


Originally posted by Savi
1. It is a fact (not a claim) that HFYWCK is based on Chan Buddhism. Because you do not study HFYWCK you are in no position to state otherwise. That is plain and simple.

2. If you're going through some major mood swings Phenix, don't take it out on Roger. That post was just rude.

[Savi]

Planetwc,
Have you ever meditated before? I think it be best we all collect ourselves and find peace before we speak again. Shhh...

[Savi]

Hi Sir William! Appreciate your feedback and participation as well...

Been doing some meditating, and aside from seeking the wrong numbers for Powerball (darn), I came up with an idea... so I ask:

"Hey Train, what is it you find interesting about Wudong Wing Shun? Is it the history on their website?" That's all I came up with.

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by William E

Thanks Rolling Hand for your continued participation and putting a smile on my face and to Savi for his sharing.

Hendrick Wrote >> If one never even see and used a real window xp based computer in the real life. certainly, when was asked about cpu, software, password....is useless. Because, one will always uses a personal opinion of Apple computer history and 80's jagong term try explain what is a password.

I am starting to use a new Windows XP based computer this week and have experienced nothing but crashes with one of the applications that is running. Don't know what your point is Hendrick and I don't think you do either....

What does this have to do with Wudong Wing Shun?

-----------------------------------------

Hi William E,

It's my pleasure to see a WCK practioner and a thinker like you. An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. What does Hendrik's software have to do with Wudong Wing Chun? In this case, no one can speak for Hendrik, and we can only hope that Hendrik will answer his own questions.

Your question to Hendrik is like--"the most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will." In Buddhist philosophy, Dharmas, meaning skills or speacific areas of knowlege, which should not be confused with Hendrik's words. Even during the time of Shakyamuni, only a small persontage of the world knew of him, and fewer still understood and practiced the Dharma.

-----------------------------------------




Originally posted by Hendrik

"Unfortunalitely, it is usually difficult for an ordinary person to understand ..... ---RH"

certainly true, if one doesnt have a lineage, and sifu or guru. one doesnt even know what the heck one is talking about. so how can others understand?
---------------------------------------

Hi Hendrik,

You misquote again?!? It's about SOT FAAT. Even though the sutra says that all beings can attain buddhahood, Dalai Lama believes this was spoken by the Buddha more out of compassion than anything else--to encourage every newbie to study and practice Buddhadharma. Hendrik, you may have certain charecteristics that make it impossible for you to learn and practice Buddhadharma successfully. Instead of spending your 24/7 in chat room, I sincerely hope that you have enough time to SOT FAAT. But you can only experience that truth once you attain high levels of practice outside of this forum..

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by planetWC

In any case, this will go nowhere, with more empty posts from RH, sideline cheering from the usual suspects etc. etc.

I think rude, would be calling someone's skills bankrupt, but hey that's just me.

-------------------------------------


The tombstone is about the only thing that can stand upright and lie on its face at the same time. The usual suspects...who are they??? John weiland, Grendel, planetWC....etc???

You think rude?!?... that's new for your SAN JOSE WING CHUN GROUP. Does Sifu Chris Chan's name ring a bell to help you to understand the word "GOSSIP"...???

[Rolling_Hand]

Originally posted by Train

HI Rene,

I already tried to get back in to the Wudong WC topic but i guess Hendrik Ignored my post. hehehe the Chan master got cought up in an argument. Ohhhh wells

---------------------------------------

Hi Train,

It's good to see you here. I was from Fatshan, and I had met some of those WCK practioners outside of Ip Man lineage in mainland China. But they don't really have a clear picture of their history. I think this Wudong WCK lineage can be one of them.

As far as Rene goes, he talks a lot about WC, many of us just do WC... well, have a good SNT!

See ya...

[planetwc]

Hi Savi,

I'm with you.

Meditation is cool. Did some yesterday and last night before sleep.

Of course if it is too quiet then I'll start snoring!
:D


Originally posted by Savi
Planetwc,
Have you ever meditated before? I think it be best we all collect ourselves and find peace before we speak again. Shhh...

[planetwc]

Considering you're bring up Chan Sifu, who is the gossip here?

As far as I know SJWC students have never *INITIATED* gossip regarding Chris Chan, other than one ex-student. That seems to be the province of others who would like to stir things up.

Check the mirror on the way out, and look carefully at your own mouth.

So are we to take it that you have no Chan teacher other than reading magazines about the Dalai Lama? Or are you as with this post going to attempt and fail to misdirect the question regarding who you studied Ch'an with?

As with Wing Chun or a magician misdirecting...we aren't watching your hands--we are still waiting for the real answer.

Looks like the shot clock will run out-- But that's no big surprise either.



Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
Originally posted by planetWC

In any case, this will go nowhere, with more empty posts from RH, sideline cheering from the usual suspects etc. etc.

I think rude, would be calling someone's skills bankrupt, but hey that's just me.

-------------------------------------


The tombstone is about the only thing that can stand upright and lie on its face at the same time. The usual suspects...who are they??? John weiland, Grendel, planetWC....etc???

You think rude?!?... that's new for your SAN JOSE WING CHUN GROUP. Does Sifu Chris Chan's name ring a bell to help you to understand the word "GOSSIP"...???

[Train]

Hi Savi,

Yeah, their history is kinda interesting and i was just wondering if anyone here in the forum had any experiences with this lineage. Wudong + WCK. That's a wierd combo :)

Hendrik is a lineage holder of a branch of Wing Chun Kuen.

Wow!! really?? So he is grandmaster of Cho Ga WCK now?? hmmm.... :) I'll ask some of the CHo ga WC people on the other sites.

Hendrik is a personal disciple of a Chan master.
So. :) just becuase he is a disciple of a Chan master doesn't mean he is the speaker for Buddhism. Like I said b4, sometimes I wonder about his buddhism becuase he the most fiestyest buddhist i have ever seen :) maybe he might be a lineage holder for his Chan lineage hehehehe

cheerleader for HFY
If he is the cheerleader for HFY, then you are the cheerleader for Hendrik's school of Buddhism hehehe

Like Hendrik said It is a free country :) Rolling_hand has the right to state his opinions too People!! :)

And again. What's up with Wudong WC? Anyone have more info or experience with it??? PlanetWC?? What do you think about it?

Ohhh yeah! thanks for the info RH!!!

Peace Outy!!!!!

[Rolling_Hand]

<<As with Wing Chun or a magician misdirecting...we aren't watching your hands--we are still waiting for the real answer.>>

People create problems for themselves. Therefore, they must come to realize and resolve problems themselves. The real answer for you is to butt out and to see no wisdom in saving up indignation for a rainy day.

<<Looks like the shot clock will run out-- But that's no big surprise either.>>

Is that a big surprise for you to shoot off your mouth??? HA....!!! Why don't you look at yourself in the mirror and tell me about it? If you want to experience the world clearly, directly, practice Ch'an. As far as who's my holy Ch'an master, and it's none of your business, and no one owes you a Jack as you owe yourself a banana! The shot clock will not run out, you can take your time to wash your mouth.

[Rolling_Hand]

<<Yeah, their history is kinda interesting and i was just wondering if anyone here in the forum had any experiences with this lineage. Wudong + WCK. That's a wierd combo >>Train


Hi Train,

Let's be fair to Wudong as well as Hendrik's Emie. Hendrik once said that some people want to destroy his KF family. Sometimes, I don't understand why did he think like that...?!!! I have always been shown my support to all WCK families, including many small lineages like Wudong as well some other unknown schools in China. China is a big country, there are still many unknown WCK people that we don't know enough about them to pass on our own opinions. As a MA, I always show my respect to all WCK schools.

Rdgs

Roger

[planetwc]

I've spoken over email to the Weng Shun folks several times.
They are very nice guys and have their own history and take on things. I was very happy to add links to their web site several years ago.


Originally posted by Train

Hendrik is a lineage holder of a branch of Wing Chun Kuen.

Wow!! really?? So he is grandmaster of Cho Ga WCK now?? hmmm.... :) I'll ask some of the CHo ga WC people on the other sites. [/B]

I never said he was a grandmaster. Hendrik's lineage has been discussed before here on the forum and even in Rene's book on Wing Chun. Rene has even posted the following before on this forum:

"In response to the usual trolls under different aliases on different boards, Hendrik Santo has never claimed to be "grandmaster" of anything. And while he doesn't claim it either, he is the inheritor of Cho Hung-Choy, the only known person to have studied under both Cho brothers (Cho Chuen, the linear successor in China and Cho On the pioneer in Malaysia), and he is *the* person everyone in Singapore and Malaysia turns to for material on Cho Ga WCK. "


PlanetWC?? What do you think about it?
[/B]

[Phenix]

"hahaha, you all always got cought up with Hendrik no matter in Shao LIn, Chan, Wudang..... hahahhahaa"

Rene , planetWC,
Seeeeee , as I predicted....Hahahahaha



Rolling Hand, Savi, Train..... all friends.... why wasting energy with Hendrik . hahahhaha ..

Chan? you all don't have it. come on admit it :D

No matter how much one tries to dig and try to destroy mother earth, one can't hahahahahahaha.

Thanks for the great joke and fun time that make me laught out loud when I have some free time to burn.




Bye Bye.

PS: Don't kill other's bandwidth for the discussion of Wudang, it is not worthed because of a mickey mouse name Hendrik.

Thanks for RH's all folks' help that I get better about no self.
If you all agree with me and hold me high where do I have chance to practice?


will Hendrik always right? NO.
will RH always wrong? NO.
So, what to argue? what to fear about? what to like or dislike?Believe it or not.
seriously, it is not Hendrik. it is you all attach and believe you idea so much that you stuck.
Path of freedom is about no self. Chan right? Don't know ,can learn right? No sifu, can get one right? what is the problem? why need to get stuck?

I sincerely pray that Kwan Yin Boddhisatva cross over you all. and achieve the advance state in WCK.
peace.

[Savi]

Originally posted by Phenix
"hahaha, you all always got cought up with Hendrik no matter in Shao LIn, Chan, Wudang..... hahahhahaa"

Rene , planetWC,
Seeeeee , as I predicted....Hahahahaha

Rolling Hand, Savi, Train..... all friends.... why wasting energy with Hendrik . hahahhaha ..

Chan? you all don't have it. come on admit it :D

No matter how much one tries to dig and try to destroy mother earth, one can't hahahahahahaha.

Thanks for the great joke and fun time that make me laught out loud when I have some free time to burn. Dude, you are so full of yourself. If anyone just read the content of the quote above, it sounds like a little kid without a clue. Guys, Hendrik himself, whose main priority is Buddhism rather than the preservation of Cho Ga Wing Chun (both Hendrik and Rene have stated this) is to be the Inheritor of Cho Ga Wing Chun?!? :confused: Right....

Apparently, replying or even acknowledging Hendrik means that we are 'caught up', 'stuck', and wasting energy. Fine - point taken, no post that we make will change any attitude of his as demonstrated here in this thread, why?

An excerpt from Chan Buddhism:
..."Above the human level, Titans are the next highest level of Samsara. Titans are people jealous of others. They show off their strength often, shaming others with their dedication to their goals, ambitions, and beliefs; their behavior is due to their hunger for power."

No point in carrying a dialogue with this character any further in his state of mind. As Train says, "I'm outy!" cause Time never stops so why should I? Any further posts by me here will be on topic, or close to it. Train, thanks for the reply. I'll write back soon.

[reneritchie]

What a bunch of playground nonsense.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
What a bunch of playground nonsense.

Rene,
Yup, Back to Wudang.


Savi,

Hope that you grow up someday and achieve the most advance level of WCK and Chan.
and then, decide for yourself. what do you after, Who is full of it, and what is the reality? ---the title, the history or the enlightenment / advance art with energy bodies...
until then good luck.

But, I believe that day will come because you can't escape that day and you can't deny what is reality when you are there.

[Train]

So Hendrik, you are the lineage holder of your WCK? Just wondering.

Thanks for the info PlanetWC on the WudongWC :)

[Train]

So Hendrik, you are the lineage holder of your WCK? Just wondering.

Thanks for the info, PlanetWC, on the WudongWC :)

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Train
So Hendrik, you are the lineage holder of your WCK? Just wondering.




Out of topic question right? Back to wudang.