FALUN GONG/Falun Dafa

[MasterKiller]

http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990510/interview3.html

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990510/interview3.html


I wonder if anyone is going to attempt to defend that little piece of insanity.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by bodhitree
Philbert, I beleive you have my e-mail, please let me know if there is any way I can help.

Actually, no I don't have it anymore. Feel free to drop me a line at thrawn_18
@
hotmail.com

The best advice though is to watch for new people who registar. I think backbreaker came back as a name called herecometroubl or something similar (it is no longer registared though). I recieved 3 e-mails in a row from the Report Post to Moderator button by him, all stuff about EF guys slamming backbreaker, etc.

Unmatchable, the reason Ralek was never banned was because Kung Lek did not want him to be banned. He knew the truth behind it, after all he is a moderator. Some members knew the truth as well. If he wanted Ralek banned, it would of taken all of 3 seconds on Gene's side. And here is a little history lesson.

Ralek was not the only name used. Before Ralek, he was Rolls (hence why people often refer to him as Rolls).

And Ralek is not banned.

[Buddy]

Li: You can think of me as a human being.

I love that one. I prefer to think of him as a big slice of government cheese.

[bodhitree]

I perfer to think of him as a manipulative human that fools people into thinking falun gong is real qigong.

[Buddy]

Yes but which goes better on a Ritz? BTW I'll be in P-burgh next month when my daughter graduates from CAPA.

[bodhitree]

If your in town drop me an email, you can come to xing yi or lion dancing or something! On june 5th our lion dancing team will be performing.

[Ford Prefect]

So this Sunday I was minding my own business in the middle of Boston walking back from my mother's birthday brunch with my wife when all of a sudden we see a protest making it's way down Boylston St and past the Boston Commons. Turns out there had to have been 1000's in on this march. They had lion dancers, and all this stuff while trying to protest China's torture of Falun Gong. They even had a float where it had actors playing the part of Chinese soldiers torturing and killing people. It was pretty graphic.

I was surprised by the sheer number of people that were involved in this march. It was broken up into sections and each section had it's own costumes and music. It must have cost a fortune. Those guy must have tons of cash. Not only for the costumes but for a permit to stop traffic on one of Boston's busiest streets for hours during the weekend of the DNC...

Just thought I'd share. I know they aren't too popular here.

[SaMantis]

Yeah, I think the city only allowed protest marches on Sunday & Monday, after that groups have to stay in the "protest zone." But it sounds like FG was bigger than the peace march on Monday (which wasn't very big from what I saw on the news).

They marched in D.C. last week, only reason I know about that is because they sent a press release to my column. How I got on that mailing list I have no idea.

Falun Gong'ers seem pretty harmless, last August they were meditating along Beach St. during the August Moon Festival, taking up valuable vendor space ;) I'm not sure what Chinatown residents think of them, but they were getting a lot of sidelong, "WTF" glances from shoppers.

[Oso]

According to the New York Times, Li Hongzhi said that: "...interracial children are the spawn of the 'Dharma Ending Period,' a Buddhist phrase that refers to an era of moral degeneration. In an interview last year, he said each race has its own paradise, and he later told followers in Australia that, 'The yellow people, the white people, and the black people have corresponding races in heaven.' As a result, he said, interracial children have no place in heaven without his intervention."

found here

http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm

they sound not so good.

:confused:

[SaMantis]

... to others. At least the FG's I've seen in Boston. A large percentage of them seem to be the "chi hippie" set, willing to overlook the founder's "eccentricities" so they can play around with the "magic" of an esoteric Asian religion. And since this is an activist town, there's the pity factor too: "Oh, they're oppressed. Well, we just have to join on principle."

People fall for stupid things. Like Scientology. Or Ricky Martin.

[David Jamieson]

you gotta wonder what's up with the "free speech zones" lol.

I thought the whole country was a free speech zone...

who's idea was that anyway?

[Oso]

I just don't know if i'd be associated with a group that had a leader spouting crap like that.

and what's wrong with the kung fu schools up there?

shouldn't they be filling that niche for the tai chi hippies?

;)

:D

[SaMantis]

We try .... *sigh* ... we try.

:(


I was gonna say, "But every time we try teaching them to take a hit, they start crying and run away." But that's just mean.

:p

[Shaolinlueb]

whos falun gong?

[David Jamieson]

Ted Gong's rebellious yet serene brother.

[Brad]

you gotta wonder what's up with the "free speech zones" lol.

I thought the whole country was a free speech zone...
Can't have large groups of people wandering down the middle of the streets ALL the time.

[David Jamieson]

well, you can't have so many problems that you would have masses of people in the streets protesting all the time either. :p

come on, "free speech zones" are just weird and freaky no matter how ya slice it.

[Shaolinlueb]

okay, but now who is ted gong?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
well, you can't have so many problems that you would have masses of people in the streets protesting all the time either. :p

come on, "free speech zones" are just weird and freaky no matter how ya slice it.

Well, no matter how good you do things there is always someone who is not going to be happy so there will always be someone wanting to protest :)

[David Jamieson]

Well, no matter how good you do things there is always someone who is not going to be happy so there will always be someone wanting to protest

well, abe lincoln sort of aluded to that, but that's not what I'm getting at. It seems that they (the barricaded zones) are yet another manifestation of the erosion of civil liberties.

How long have they been around?

[Brad]

okay, but now who is ted gong?

He's the U.S.'s consular section chief from Guangzhou. You may remember him from the incident in which a U.S. aircraft colided with a Chinese aircraft and landed on Hainin Island, April 1st 2001. Seriously, don't you know anything?
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/uschina/pwl0406.htm








:D :p

[PaiLumDreamer]

I was just recently in Victoria Canada...some chick handed me a little pamplet thing talking about how they got tortured. I took one, smiled, and kept walking.

Maybe they were having some sort of internation protest day for falun gong.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
It seems that they (the barricaded zones) are yet another manifestation of the erosion of civil liberties.



:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

typical of you to post nothing of any worthwhile commentary smells like...

:rolleyes: right back at ya

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Brad
He's the U.S.'s consular section chief from Guangzhou. You may remember him from the incident in which a U.S. aircraft colided with a Chinese aircraft and landed on Hainin Island, April 1st 2001. Seriously, don't you know anything?
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/uschina/pwl0406.htm








:D :p

i remember that happening but i dotn really pay attention to the news. the less I know the better. news and government jsut gets the rebel in me all riled up and my guerilla instinct comes out :p ;)

[David Jamieson]

...me all riled up and my guerilla instinct comes out

and then what? :p

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
and then what? :p


i get on the internet and complain to people who dont want to hear me. cause the government scares me :(

[David Jamieson]

well, so long as you aren't filling trucks with horse poop and deisel fuel and parking them in front of state buildings, that's ok then.

Now conform! Conform I say!!! :p

There's always death by xbox.

[Shaolinlueb]

horse manure bomb!!!:D

stop giving me good ideas. :p

jk

xbox.....

ill get lost in dreamcast. :D

[Chang Style Novice]

The more I read and hear about falun gong, the more I think it should be spelled fa-loon gong.

[David Jamieson]

we used to take out gopher mounds at my uncles place with h-bombs :p

holy jeez they blow up reeeaaall good.

45 gallon drum

3/4 filled with horse manure

fill to top with deisel and let soak, fill to top again.

insert wick (make it a long one)

light it and kaboom! gopher mound = gopher parking lot.

saved the horses from a lot of broken ankles and freaked me out about how explosive that mix is.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
typical of you to post nothing of any worthwhile commentary smells like...

:rolleyes: right back at ya


Your 'attack' is infringing on my freedom to smilie. You have no respect for human rights!

[David Jamieson]

With a name like yours, you have no self respect, so what does it matter. :p

smiley away smelly. lol

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
With a name like yours, you have no self respect, so what does it matter.

Now you are infringing upon my right to false self-esteem!



See you in the Hague, fascist!

[David Jamieson]

fascist? lol

how bizzare

[Hermes3X]

yeah, usually when I hear about some group historically that really got somebody's ire going and then the biggest closest government comes in and kills the hell out of everybody and I think **** evil government. But every now and again, I come across groups that just deserved to be wiped from the face of the earth The Albigensians in Southern France during the 14th century were one group (ever heard the phrase "kill 'em all, god'll sort em out"? It comes from this Crusade. a bishop asked the pope's general "how you gonna know heretics from the pious?" The general responded "I intended to kill them all. God will know his own") anyway, the falun gong people, at least the high ups, are bonkers. I understand why the chinese government is a little scared and hostile towards them

[tug]

So, I work in midtown Manhattan, Lexington and 59th to be exact, which is CRAZY busy during rush hours. Recently, these Falun have been setting up an elaborate display complete with cages, ropes, fake cops beating fake inmates, fake blood everywhere, ten to twelve people meditating on the sidewalk, and people everywhere handing out flyers. Needless to say, it is probably the worst (for us commuters), and/or best (for them(high profile/get their message to more).

My question is - is this for real? Are they really oppressed like they want us to believe? Or is it just another money maker for the constituents?

I've heard some reports saying that the government is not happy with this faction/sect, but beating them into submission?

Sounds hokey...

(also didn't know where else to post this topic, so maybe our friendly neighborhood moderator can advise)

Thanks in advance...

[SimonM]

The PRC views the Falun Gong as a "dangerous cult" and treats them accordingly.

Now, China has very strict laws regarding religion, especially missionary activity and Falun Gong was completely disregarding them.

That being said, they appear to be nothing more than a vaguely buddhist take on the Hare Krishna idea from what I have seen, hardly "dangerous".

[tug]

I would tend to agree, not "dangerous", maybe a little wacky, but certainly not grounds for torture into submission.

Why is Qi gong not treated the same way? This is not to say they are one and the same, of course, and also not to say that anything that isn't understood should be treated with barbarity, but isn't Qi gong sometimes thought of as a "mystical" art?

[tug]

Also, to quote - "Falun Gong is a unique way to improve the body, mind, and spirit. It consists of exercise, meditation, and teachings that are rooted in ancient Chinese culture.

The practice is best known for its slow-moving, relaxing, Tai-chi like exercises calles Qi gong. Falun Gong's exercises, though simple and gentle, often have amazing effects on health."


Sooooo, is it or is it not Qi gong? Why is it called something different than anything else when they tout Tai-chi and Qi gong?

What am I missing?

(please do not take this as an endorsement, rather, as humble curiousity - I see these people every day)

[FuXnDajenariht]

Falun dafa is a religious sect. Thousands of their practitioners are being wrongly jailed and persecuted in China. That is what is known. The extent of thier persecution is not really known with the complete control the government has of the media in China but refugees in America are trying their best to to bring awareness about it. I suspect thats what they were attempting to do and its probably not far off from what really happens.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Go to this site if u really wanna know http://faluninfo.net/

daayuuum....its worse than i thot.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

yah, falun gong is a type of qigong and also has martial applications, including Iron skills, but instead of cultivating an empty mind it cultivates via a "master" and a mind link to him.

In China, alot of less stable ppl tried this sytem over the last 10 yrs and several thousand lost the plot and died in masacres and murders / suicides etc . It is now against the law there and practitioners will be dealt with to the full extent of the law. It has some crazy methods, but for some, work well enough. For those that were uneffected, i guess , yah, they are oppressed in their freedoms of its practice.

[Buddy]

Go away, Bloome

[tug]

Thanks for the link, FuXn. (I just figured out your user name=cool)

You know, for the longest time I thought these people were out of their gourd, sitting on the street, passing out information, making a nuisance, but now, seeing the site, hearing what they have to say about it, I think the persecution they have suffered is quite ridiculous. Of course, any persecution for anything is simply and decidedly NOT kung fu IMO.

Not gonna wave any flags or anything, but in this day and age, HOW CAN THIS KEEP HAPPENING?! I mean, WTF, these people are just doing what anyone else might be compelled to do, meditation, Qi gong, Tai Chi?!?! It's not in the least bit any worse than practicing Shaolin kung fu, which comes from China!!

Sorry to rant, but injustice is the biggest problem for everyone, and I think the PRC is exhibiting simply that against Falun.

Absolutely ridiculous...and absolutely wrong.

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol thanks for the compliment

And ur right, it is totally fu(ked up. Buts who gonna stand up and try to stop the PRC? They would need thousands of supporters in America and with the problems we have now we'd be total hyprocrites. Why would China listen to us?

Its safe to say people haven't evolved much in the 10s of thousands of years we been here....

[tug]

Well, call me naive, but how can they justify such actions?

I mean, at a base level, it's just WRONG to treat people that way.

Again, I realize I'm new here in this universe, but I simply cannot comprehend what goes through the governments mind when they perpetrate such heinous activity against other human beings.

And yet I agree, who's going to stop them?? Who's going to make them realize that what they are doing is WRONG.


Sorry for being such a busybody, but as I said before, I see these people every day, and it has been affecting me more and more every day, unlike I ever thought it would.

...might just have to do something about that last part...

[Juna]

I am moved deely when I see the kind heart people here.

Governmental Awards and Recognition of Falun Dafa
from China and the World

Since its public introduction in May 1992, Falun Dafa has attracted over 100 million practitioners worldwide in just ten years. Falun Dafa cultivation emphasizes that one should conduct oneself according to the principle of "Truth-Compassion-Tolerance". Regardless of gender and age, regardless of nationality and race, every practitioner who persistently cultivates his/her heart and practices the exercises has benefited tremendously. Constant diligent cultivation has brought significant changes to many practitioners in both physical conditions and moral values. At the same time, Falun Dafa is gaining worldwide understanding and appreciation, especially in Asia, Australia, Europe, and North America.
Listed below are some awards issued by some local governments and organizations in China, Canada, US and other countries in recognition of the extraordinary contribution made by Master Li Hong Zhi and Falun Dafa to people's mental and physical health.


You can check the awards (more than one thousand) at the link below.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/recognition.html

[FuXnDajenariht]

holy ****

I never heard about Falun Dafa day. It must be huge. 100 million people around the world?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Falun Dafa day....... Maybe during this festival, there should also be other internal styles like tai chi and bagua. People who train northern styles would be interested in Falun Gong. It helps develop Fa Jing. I think.

[tug]

Thanks so much for the link. I also had no idea there was a "day" for Falun gong. I will be marking that day on my calendar.










...things are slowly becoming clearer...

[FuXnDajenariht]

Your right tug, i know what you mean. Everything happens in the exact order that it needs to. People just have to pay attention.

[tug]

Everything happens in the exact order that it needs to. People just have to pay attention.


Basically that is how I made it this far in life, so I agree wholeheartedly.

- It's also my girlfriend's biggest peeve -

See, she thinks I'm just lazy, I always tell her I find peace in stillness.

All I know is that for me - it works.



Thanks to everyone for replying on this topic. I think it's something we all should be increasingly more aware of.

[Juna]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
Your right tug, i know what you mean. Everything happens in the exact order that it needs to. People just have to pay attention.

Good point!

Falun Gong is gradually known by the whole world, and at the same time more and more kind people have realized the evil persecution to inocent practitioners is so atrocity, and should be stopped.

[tug]

Yes, I agree, but how? I don't think there's any petition out there strong enough to wage proper battle against the government.

[Juna]

I think when all the world knows the facts of the evil persecution, the elements of evil would be destroyed.



U.S. House of Representatives Unanimously Passes Resolution Urging Chinese Government to Cease Its Oppression of Falun Gong Practitioners in the United States and in China



At 8pm Eastern Time on October 4, 2004, the House of the Representatives in the U.S. unanimously passed H. Con. Resolution 304, expressing the sense of Congress regarding oppression by the Government of the People's Republic of China of Falun Gong in the United States and in China. The resolution expressed the sense that the Government of the People's Republic of China should immediately stop interfering in the exercise of religious and political freedoms within the United States, such as the right to practice Falun Gong, that are guaranteed by the United States Constitution, cease using the diplomatic missions in the United States to spread falsehoods about the nature of Falun Gong, and release from detention all prisoners of conscience, including practitioners of Falun Gong.


The H. Con. Res. 304 was initiated by Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and co-sponsored by 75 congresspeople. It was unanimously passed yesterday evening (October 4) by the representatives.


The resolution expressed the sense that the president of the United States should take actions such as working more closely with Chinese human rights activists to identify Chinese authorities who have been personally responsible for acts of violence and persecution in the People's Republic of China; and the Attorney General should investigate reports that Chinese consular officials in the United States have committed illegal acts while attempting to intimidate or inappropriately influence Falun Gong practitioners or local elected officials, and, in consultation with the Secretary of State, determine an appropriate legal response.


The full text of the resolution is as below:






108th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. CON. RES. 304

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of Congress regarding oppression by the Government of the People's Republic of China of Falun Gong in the United States and in China.

HCON 304 EH


108th CONGRESS

2d Session


H. CON. RES. 304



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Whereas Falun Gong is a peaceful spiritual movement that originated in the People's Republic of China but has grown in popularity worldwide and is now accepted and practiced by thousands in the United States;

Whereas demonstrations by Falun Gong practitioners in the People's Republic of China and the United States have been peaceful, meditative sessions;

Whereas the Constitution of the People's Republic of China provides to the citizens of that country freedom of speech, assembly, association, and religious belief;

Whereas members of the Falun Gong spiritual movement, members of Chinese pro-democracy groups, and advocates of human rights reform in the People's Republic of China have been harassed, libeled, imprisoned, and beaten for demonstrating peacefully inside that country;

Whereas the Chinese Government has also attempted to silence the Falun Gong movement and Chinese prodemocracy groups inside the United States;

Whereas on June 12, 2003, 38 Members of Congress filed an Amended Brief of Amicus Curiae in support of the Falun Gong at the United States District Court, Northeastern District of Illinois, Eastern Division;

Whereas Chinese consular officials have pressured local elected officials in the United States to refuse or withdraw support for the Falun Gong spiritual group;

Whereas Dr. Charles Lee, a United States citizen, has reportedly been mentally and physically tortured since being detained by Chinese authorities in early 2003;

Whereas the apartment of Ms. Gail Rachlin, the Falun Gong spokeswoman in the United States, has been broken into 5 times by agents of the Chinese regime since the regime banned Falun Gong in 1999 in China;

Whereas over the past 5 years China's diplomatic corps has been actively involved in harassing and persecuting Falun Gong practitioners in the United States;

Whereas on June 23, 2003, Falun Gong practitioners were attacked outside a Chinese restaurant in New York City by local United States-based individuals with reported ties to the Chinese Government;

Whereas 5 Falun Gong practitioners were assaulted outside of the Chinese Consulate in Chicago on September 7, 2001, while exercising their constitutionally protected rights to free speech, leading to battery convictions in Cook County Criminal Court of Jiming Zheng on November 13, 2002, and Yujun Weng on December 5, 2002, both assailants being members of a Chinese-American organization in Chicago, the Mid-USA Fujian Township Association, which maintains close ties with the Chinese Consulate;


Whereas individuals that physically harassed Falun Gong practitioners in San Francisco on October 22, 2000, were later seen at anti-Falun Gong meetings and the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco;

Whereas San Francisco City Supervisor Chris Daly, after receiving complaints that Chinese officials were intimidating his constituents, authored a resolution condemning human rights violations and persecution of Falun Gong members by the Chinese Government;

Whereas Mr. Daly and the other members of the San Francisco City Council subsequently received a letter from the Chinese Consul General in San Francisco, claiming that Falun Gong was an 'evil cult' that was undermining the 'normal social order' in the People's Republic of China, and that Mr. Daly's resolution should therefore be rejected, which it subsequently was;

Whereas in November 2000, the former Mayor of Saratoga, California, Stan Bogosian, issued a proclamation honoring the contributions of Falun Gong practitioners to the Saratoga community, which prompted the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco to write to Mr. Bogosian urging him to retract his support for local Falun Gong activities;

Whereas many local and national media organizations have reported that other local officials across the United States, including the mayors of several major cities, have been pressured by Chinese consular officials to recant statements of support for the Falun Gong;

Whereas journalists have cited fear of hurting trade relationships as the motivation for some local United States officials to recant their support for Falun Gong after receiving pressure from Chinese consular officials; and

Whereas the Constitution of the United States guarantees freedom of religion, the right to assemble, and the right to speak freely, and the people of the United States strongly value protecting the ability of all people to live without fear and in accordance with their personal beliefs: Now, therefore, be it


Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That it is the sense of Congress that--

(1) the Government of the People's Republic of China should--

(A) immediately stop interfering in the exercise of religious and political freedoms within the United States, such as the right to practice Falun Gong, that are guaranteed by the United States Constitution;


(B) cease using the diplomatic missions in the United States to spread falsehoods about the nature of Falun Gong;

(C) release from detention all prisoners of conscience, including practitioners of Falun Gong, who have been incarcerated in violation of their rights as expressed in the Constitution of the People's Republic of China;

(D) immediately end the harassment, detention, physical abuse, and imprisonment of individuals who are exercising their legitimate rights to freedom of religion, including the practices of Falun Gong, freedom of expression, and freedom of association as stated in the Constitution of the People's Republic of China; and

(E) demonstrate its willingness to abide by international standards of freedom of belief, expression, and association by ceasing to restrict those freedoms in the People's Republic of China;

(2) the President should, in accordance with section 401(a)(1)(B) of the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 (22 U.S.C. 6401(a)(1)(B)), and with the intention of dissuading the Chinese Government from attempting to stifle religious freedom in the People's Republic of China and the United States, take action such as--

(A) issuing an official public demarche, a formal protest, to the Chinese Foreign Ministry in response to the repeated violations by the Chinese Government of basic human rights protected in international covenants to which the People's Republic of China is a signatory; and


(B) working more closely with Chinese human rights activists to identify Chinese authorities who have been personally responsible for acts of violence and persecution in the People's Republic of China;

(3) the Attorney General should investigate reports that Chinese consular officials in the United States have committed illegal acts while attempting to intimidate or inappropriately influence Falun Gong practitioners or local elected officials, and, in consultation with the Secretary of State, determine an appropriate legal response; and

(4) officials of local governments in the United States should--

(A) in accordance with local statutes and procedures, recognize and support organizations and individuals that share the goals of all or part of the local community, including Falun Gong practitioners; and

(B) report incidents of pressure or harassment by agents of the People's Republic of China to Members of Congress, the Attorney General, and the Secretary of State.
Passed the House of Representatives October 4, 2004.

[Juna]

Read here please
http://www.faluninfo.net/

[EarthDragon]

Jun
you seem pretty knowledgeable about this subject. Just out of curiousity why is it that the government is forbidding the practice of this art?
As I have heard it is more of a cult following and not a true qigong skill. Your thoughts?

[red5angel]

Falun Dafa has grown to become the most popular form of qigong ever in Chinese history


Falun Dafa's effectiveness in improving health and its profound principles have quickly made the practice immensely popular throughout the entire world.

is it possible for you to back this statement up with facts of some sort?

[MasterKiller]

Do your stubby midget fingers prevent you from using Google?

[FuXnDajenariht]

Dont you think your leader is a bit on the eccentric side tho? ie: crazy as batsh!t? I mean people having their freedom is the most important thing in the world to me, but its kinda hard or rather impossible to defend some of the things he says..... I still support Falun Gong though even tho i dont practice it. How could you not when their being murdered by the hundreds? But i think hes hurting more than helping your cause.... Reading some of the things he says it easy to agree that the guy thinks he's a "god" but Falun Gong is supposed to not be a religion at all. Its easy to be painted as a cult when Li goes on about aliens and flying in Time magazine of all places. Some things were always best left unsaid for a reason... It really in an ideal world would be irrevelant what someone believes in, but if the PR propoganda machine gets to most people first, its near impossible for you to win them over....thats just ignorance for ya....

[SPJ]

There are more than one Budda. There are more than one dharma. There are more than one path to enlightenment.

There are more than one school or style of Wushu.

There are more than one way to cross the river of the life and to get to the other shore.

Qi gong started with Daoist practices to cultivate Qi and health over 4200 years ago in China not in the '90. Buddhism appeared 2500 years ago in India.

Ba Duan Jin is most widely practiced Qi gong since Song Dynasty.

Chan Buddhism is the most widely practiced Buddhism in the world and not Fa lun.

Please describe why Fa Lun Qi gong is the best over Da Duan Jin, Yi Jin Jing, Tai Ji Qi Gong or Wu Dang Tong Tzi Gong, Taiyan Qi gong, Ba Gua and Xing Yi Qi Gong on and on.

Why Fa Lun is the path better than Tibetan, Chan, diamond sutra, mantra etc.

Many people are listening.

:D

[SPJ]

Or Falun >shaolin?

Or Falun> Da Lai Lama?

:confused:

[Taomonkey]

Regardless of the politics associated with Falun, Its a great set of ChiGong excercises. My teacher showed me the same (almost) forms about 7 years ago and refered to them as the Great Law Wheel Chi Gung Set.

[MoreMisfortune]

am i the only one who gets the image of a giant phallus inside my head everytime i hear "Falun"?
maybe falun is elvish for phallus

[CaptinPickAxe]

Excuse me for being skeptical, but can you provide proof that Falun Gong practitioners are being mass murdered?

Also, if thats the case don't you think that us nosey Americans would of stepped in long ago?

I know nothing of the Qigong aspect of your art, but I have read the Falun Dafa and LiHong Zi is nuttier than an elephant's turd.

[MasterKiller]

The group was outlawed July 29, 1999, and the U.S. passed its first resolution criticising China for the crackdown on Nov. 18, 1999. That's a pretty fast response, all things considering.

But yeah, Li Hongzhi is a nutjob.

[lkfmdc]

lest we all forget, people who do Falun Dafa have been known to wake up in the middle of the night, take a meat clever out of the kitchen drawer, and chop family members into little won ton sized chunks....

do not ever forget this

it is a dangerous practice and one that has resulted in problems such as these.....

[GLW]

And no one ever wants to bring up WHY China outlawed Falun Gong.

I was in the PRC BEFORE They outlawed it and have been there since.

Before they passed the law, there were concerns about Falun Gong....

The group was targeting party members and public officials in the smaller towns and such. They would invite them to their functions, work very hard at getting them to join, and if not, at getting them to look favorably or turn a blind eye to the group.

There were small towns where the chief of police, the equivalent of the mayor, and so on were Falun Gong supporters or members.

One thing you don't do in China is try to infiltrate the Communist Party....

There were also reports of higher ups in the organization...and even the two highest guys under Li using their position to train young women in the "Advanced" aspects of Falun Dafa....

Then, they requested a permit to hold their Falun Gong demonstration at Tienanmen Square. They were turned down. Then, on the day they were to hold it, over 10,000 Falun Gong followers showed up and did their demo.

Now, if 10,000 people showed up in front of the White House or Capitol hill AFTER they were denied a permit and proceeded to do their thing, what would happen in the US?

What happened in China was that their police took photos of people and when everything was over, quietly went and arrested the leaders of the groups for the demonstration.

Shortly after that, Falun Gong was outlawed if memory serves.

There is nothing special about their Qi Gong methods. They are a mish mash of a number of other methods that Li Hongzhi put together.

Having met a few of them in the US, I can say that they are not as extreme as the Moonies...but that is only a matter of degree and not a real difference.

[SPJ]

Apologize. I have some questions.

Just wonder how the Qi Gong is better or different from Daoist or Shaolin Chan/Da Mo Qi gong?

How the "moral" cultivation is different from great vehicle, small vehicle and Da Lai Lama?

Do not want to bash or hash?

Ba Duan Jin and Tai Ji Qi Gong are extensively researched by TCM and western medicine such Harvard and Yale U etc.

Peace.

:)

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by SPJ
Or Falun >shaolin?

Or Falun> Da Lai Lama?

:confused:

falun is translated as original and in this context is grouped chi or what sits in your dantien and according to belief , are groups of energy spiralling in an upward path to higher lvls of conciousness from different aspects of cultivation. I won't go into it too much, because for alot of ppl it's going to be hard enough to grasp as is.

One of those for mentioned lvls of concious takes you through attatchment to your master ( Hong Zhi, being the more current system is "his" interperative baby so to speak) , and so in interperation you are virtually taken through his own conciousness and every good, bad and higher perspective on it.

I guess this is where it becomes extremly trickey and why it is frowned upon by buddhism. Buddhism practices detatchment, particularly from ego or immediate awareness at physical lvl, and additionally in meditative practice strive to achieve the unviersal buddhas awareness. It is extremely hard to achieve this when you hold any one individual in your conciousness and this is why at higher lvls of practiuce, they clash.

the reason it has become outlawed in China, is because through this practice, as per Hong Zhis method, and in travelling realms of alternate levels of conciousnesses, particularly in a country that has been somewhat deprived of the budhhist notions of buddhas and budhha natures etc ( which caught me when during my deepest practice, ends weren't adding up), people became confues and developed a false grounding in Hong Zhi as opposed to the universal. I believe that holding an individual in your conciousness , equating them to a god -like figure, is extremely distructive and leads to misconcruing reality leading to the latter outlined consequences.

Qigong is qigong ( of which falun is certainly a branch) and is undoubtedly a good practice to accrue and perpetuate better physical health, even if the sole reason is because it allows your heart rate to drop and takes a load off your systyem. Because falun gong has this aspect of mind and thought matter as a directive as opposed to detatchment from it, it bvecomes somewhat paradoxical at high lvl and can make a person extyremely confused. Many practioners in China ( many thousand) through this phenomena, not surprisingly lost touch with reality and suicided or committed attrocities including murder.

CHina has post the last 50 or so yrs become a largely astheist country and society and at higher levels of questioning etc, for some ppl, without religion it is a big mess of unsensical subordinancy and submission.

I hope this helps somewhat, but please bear in mind, this is an extremely complicated multi facetted system and while martially effective, often difficult to grasp pre-conceptually your wu gong and again for most, not at all worth the trade off on your common senses.


Amitopho
EE

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Excuse me for being skeptical, but can you provide proof that Falun Gong practitioners are being mass murdered?



yes. Please see your or the chinese embassy websites

www.chinaembassy.org


Spj

Da lai is the mechanism to transmit the dharma or teachings ( quite seperate to himself) leading to buddha nature ( or universal awreness ) , Lihong Zhi advocates getting you there via himself.

vast difference!

[CaptinPickAxe]

nice link, *******.:rolleyes:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

big deal. Do a google on chinese embassy and national political events etc and you can give us the link.

Or try this one ;)

http://www.chinaembassy.org.au/eng/zt/jpflg/default.htm


they often have a great deal to say and will as often stop at little to get it across :(

that's life bud....but law is law and suicide is crazy, and murder and breaking the is law unacceptable, empathise as one might.

[CaptinPickAxe]

most of these are more damming than saving... (http://www.chinaembassy.org.au/eng/zt/jpflg/t46170.htm)

These guys are more nuts than I thought.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

it's probably a little embellished as most media is, but dwai..they're cracked!!

[FuXnDajenariht]

So basically you dont know who to believe anymore. They both have reason to distort facts.

[CaptinPickAxe]

it seems more than a little embelished, friend.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

no... a little embellished is all it is, but regardless of their justifications and reasons, ppl just can't go around behaving like that!!

[SPJ]

If the report is true, I have to disagree on many fronts.

1) The first and foremost is that who has the power or right to make the judgement of right or wrong. Is there a fair trial? innocent till proven guilty?

2) On reincarnation theory. This life you become in the consciousness of human which means you did good in your last life. Or you will be in the animal realm or lower.

3) Buddha and others think the human state is the best realm to study, practice, meditate to reach enlightenment.

4) You kyll yourself and others. You commit more crimes by taking a life or something does not belong to you. You definately will be lower in your next life. For to kyll is the worst crime.

5) On the other hand, to save life including yours will promote your self toward enlightenment either this life or next.

6) Atonement and repaying the privous life debts with doing something good and not more bad stuff.

7) Nobody is counting the good or bad. Nobody is administering justice not even Buddha.

8) Whatever you do will come back to you. Karma.

[FuXnDajenariht]

I agree with all that but i dont believe you can reincarnate as an animal. Seems counter productive if you had to start from scratch each time.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by SPJ
[B]If the report is true, I have to disagree on many fronts.

1) The first and foremost is that who has the power or right to make the judgement of right or wrong. Is there a fair trial? innocent till proven guilty?


Unfortunately, empathy is beside the point . I'm sorry Spj (& good to see you btw) , it's called the law. We all have them and we Must conform or accept penalty and repercussions as outlined in statuets! :( ;)



2) On reincarnation theory. This life you become in the consciousness of human which means you did good in your last life. Or you will be in the animal realm or lower.

we are ALL animals and if and until we reach what buddjhism deems a white lighteed energy ( balanced karma on eother side...) we're here and trying to do the best we can with our time, however we perceive "best " to be . ;) :)

3) Buddha and others think the human state is the best realm to study, practice, meditate to reach enlightenment.

]Dwai SpJ, becvause if we didn'e meet the hardships we do in humanity, and how do we learn their respective issue lessons???


4) You kyll yourself and others. You commit more crimes by taking a life or something does not belong to you. You definately will be lower in your next life. For to kyll is the worst crime.


dong / dwai...... wo bu yao this thing!!!!!



5) On the other hand, to save life including yours will promote your self toward enlightenment either this life or next.


to do this, surely requires commitment to goodness and in the hardships you "will" most definately endure to acheive it, you will find many an enlightenment! ;) :) :)


6) Atonement and repaying the privous life debts with doing something good and not more bad stuff.


Need / desire for atonement is a distraction!! AS long as you're earnest , and prepared to acknowledge the short commings we all have and accept growth, atonement takes care of itself! :) Ps: bad stuff = judgement Sp, not the goal!!!!

7) Nobody is counting the good or bad. Nobody is administering justice not even Buddha.

COLOR=darkblue]buxing!! apparently , and pls see this very thread for reason, WE are and to do so defeats our pupose! Ps: justice comes whereever you believe the end lays!v[/COLOR]

8) Whatever you do will come back to you. Karma. [/B

[

May do, but can't help but do my best regardless and so will wear what I receive!

Amitopho SPJ :)

[FuXnDajenariht]

But anyway thats beside the point. To answer CPA's question. No i doubt the United states would of helped Falun practitioners except with limpd!ck resolutions even if we did have a definitive answer about whats being done. Look at the genocide in Rwanda and presently Sudan. No one needs to prove thats happening, because you hear about it almost every day. Atleast in foreign news. I bet you can go to any person on the streets here and ask them about it and they'd say "What about Sudan?" "Um.... is that a country?" We barely had a blip about it in the news in our country. Too busy licking celebrity ass to report some real news i suppose.

And I definitely wouldn't hold it against the Chinese government doing something like that anyway. Communist leaders aren't exactly known to be benevolent when they think their power is in jeopardy. real or imagined. You only have to look back at the Cultural Revolution and their attitude towards Tibet and Taiwan. The reportedly have dozens of missiles pointed at Taiwan right now.

[SPJ]

There are currently over 800 guided missles land based surface to surface targeting on Taiwan.

Before the shifting the power from Jiang to Hu, there were cancellations of military exercises.

Taiwan recently did 6 day war senarios exercises.

1 day, missles attack, vital structures, radar commanding posts, habors, airways etc gone.

2 day, air wars across the straight around 250 F-16, Ching Kuo Hao, french mirage fighting 1000 Sukhoi's.

3 Day, Taiwan's fleet retreat to Guam.

4 Day, Air drops and landing of PLA.

---

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Taiwan comprimises Chinas authority, no doubt, but why exactly was that relevant here??

[FuXnDajenariht]

How China reacts to perceived threats.....They can be very heavy handed to put it lightly. Or brutal *******s to say it bluntly.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

china can sometimes be a hard-as*ed and callous country to deal with!!!!!!.........they've gone thnrough some shyt in past , but at the end of the day, they just want better their peeps and preserve their citizens lives with whatever skill they have. can't hate em for it!!!!

[CaptinPickAxe]

I think they did the right thing by banning them. It would seem hipocritcal of them to ban all religion and let this religious cult exsist. That would create inequality, which in turn would defeat the purpose of communism...

so we agree...strangely enough.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Your right you can't, but "IF" mass murder and torture is the way their going about doing that then its completely the wrong way.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Genocide is never the answer.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Um i think your missing the point CPA. They shouldn't be banning religion at all. Communism can be cold and calculating which is why it would be so easy for "dangerous cults" to crop up in the first place. You can't suppress peoples spirituality, and i dont think communists took a popular vote when they came into power.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

no, but as unfortunate as it is, when there are alot of ppl breaking the law and comprimising national securities, the law outlines the parameters of freedom they have to function and express discontent under freely. Above and beyond that , they and the law know, there are penalties and it is the Chinese judicial and police forces's job to enforce those boundary slights!!

That is life babes!!!! ....... and maybe they're spritually innocent, but breakng laws make a person accountable!!! I'm sure they knew it prior and sacrificed readily!! :( :) and such is history! ;) :) :( ni dong ???

[FuXnDajenariht]

Huh? Dude are you serious?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

serious!!

[FuXnDajenariht]

Oookay

So i guess freedom is bad thing?

I guess America is going about it all wrong! Who knew China had the key.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
Oookay

So i guess freedom is bad thing?

.

only when that freedom enables detriment of other citizens yourself included ;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

Of corse banning Religion is wrong, but if your going to do it, you can't ban some and let others exsist. Plain and simple. I'm not a Communist nor do I belive they are correct. I am simply saying that if you call for a ban on something, you use the shotgun method. Not stop a few and let a few go.

Understand where I'm coming from?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

CaptinPickAxe,

"Some animals are more equal than others." Before the chinese crushed the student demonstrators at tienan square, Deng said that power comes from the barrel of the gun.

In China there is no law, except the whims and fancy of the dictators. But of late, there is a new force - commericalism, maybe the only thing that will crush communism in a peaceful way.

[GLW]

Well, while you are bashing the PRC, bash our ally, Singapore.

Religions are controlled there. Falun Gong, the Mormons, and a number of others are outlawed there.

Prison is a minimum. If you are from someplace else, you are deported and NEVER allowed back. and so on... They also have a ZERO tolerance drug policy. A single joint gets you a death sentence - hanging within a day or two of the verdict.

As for the US stepping in...

We did little while Japan was doing their thing pre WWII. We supported Chiang in his war with Mao...up to a point and then failed. We ignored the problems with the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, and so on...

Aside from spouting rhetoric and passing meaningless resolutions, the US does very little in regards to China...and China knows that all they have to do is be patient and the winds will change to their favor...The hunt for profits will do that to your idealistic notions.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

GLW,

US and China will not get into any form of military conflict in the foreseeable future. The US consumption is a big part of what's driving the economic boom in China. It is also China's willinglness to sell its goods on credit to the US that is what's keeping US consumption going. The two of them are running on the same thread mill and as long as neither stops peddling, they are alright.

But my point is with commercialism, it would lead people to focus on other things instead of ideology. True, I believe the leaders will still be corrupt, but it may involve money as opposed to massicare or genocide.

A population that has enough to eat and have reasonable access to material wealth is generally easier to govern. For all the lack of freedom of speech and chewing gum in singapore, people don't complain too much because in the end, tax rates are low (as an example).

[GLW]

Not sure what point YOU were making...

Mine was that it is easy to condemn the PRC in the US because so many were raised with the idea that communisim is bad and those that are our friends and NOT communists are OK.

The reality is that many governments do EXACTLY what the PRC does but since they are our "friends" we ignore it or whitewhash it completely.

As a nation, you can't stand up on a soapbox and claim to be oh so moral and then do this. You either TRULY take the moral position 100% or you admit up front that you are in things for benign self-interest.

I was also pointing out that our illustrious US Congress really don't know much about China or Falun Gong AND that there are a number of countries that have labeled Falun Gong (and a number of other religions) as Persona Non Grata.

In regards to stability, Most people don't CARE about their freedoms if they have food, health, and such. The only ones that seem to are academicians, artists, and such... because they very easily push the envelope...and should. (doubt this...then explain why, even when there was less of a sense of despair, less than half of the registered voters vote...an expression of self-determination and freedom that is unique in the world)

Also, the thing we have found with other cultures like China is that consumerism and American culture (TV, music, fashion, etc...) have a much broader impact on changing places like China than argument and saber rattling.

[tug]

Juna, you stole my idea!!

Anyway, from doing more research I agree, the head guy is out of his mind. And just trying to use "mysticism" as a money-maker for himself.

No, they shouldn't be treated as they are, but I don't believe there's an ounce of validity to it being a true "art".

And Qi gong is Qi gong, why do you need to go to Falun to get it?

[Juna]

Hi, friends

Sorry to response a little late.

Everything will be clrear.

[Juna]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
Jun
you seem pretty knowledgeable about this subject. Just out of curiousity why is it that the government is forbidding the practice of this art?


Here are the reasons for the unwarranted crackdown on Falun Gong

On the Collusion of Jiang Zemin and the Chinese Communist Party to Persecute Falun Gong
http://www.ninecommentaries.com/english-5/

[Juna]

Report from CNN:
The Xinhua news-agency quoted officers from the PLA and the para-military People's Armed Police as asserting that the sect was "an effort by hostile Western forces to subvert China."

Officers from all divisions of the military forces have vowed to do their utmost to defend the central leadership and to "maintain national security and social stability."

Sources close to security departments in Beijing said Jiang was poised to take more drastic steps to reach his goal of eradicating the sect before the forthcoming 80th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party.

For example, the state security apparatus has identified about 40,000 Falun Gong practitioners among staff in Communist Party and government units, state enterprises and colleges.

These "cultists" have been told if they do not sign papers denouncing the sect, they will be fired -- and their pensions confiscated.

Surveillance and harassment of sect members, who apparently do nothing more than practice their brand of slow breathing exercise at home, have been stepped up.

There are reports that understaffed police authorities have recruited unemployed workers in the battle against the Falun Gong.

While the Jiang leadership may have genuine reasons to feel threatened by the sect, the quasi-Maoist tactics it has employed have raised serious questions

Whole article here:http://www.CNN.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/05/China.willycolumn/index.html

[Juna]

Report from amnesty


Members of unofficial spiritual or religious groups, including some Qi Gong groups and unregistered Christian groups, continued to be arbitrarily detained, tortured and ill-treated.

Rhetoric intensified in the official media against the Falun Gong spiritual movement, which was banned as a ¡°heretical organization¡± in July 1999, apparently exacerbating the climate of violence and intolerance against the Falun Gong. Detained Falun Gong practitioners, including large numbers of women, were at risk of torture, including sexual abuse, particularly if they refused to renounce their beliefs. According to overseas Falun Gong sources, more than 800 people detained in connection with the Falun Gong had died since 1999, mostly as a result of torture or ill-treatment.

Deng Shiying reportedly died on 19 July, the day after her release from Jilin Women¡¯s Prison in Changchun City, Jilin Province, where she was serving a seven-year prison sentence in connection with producing and distributing information describing human rights violations against Falun Gong practitioners in China. According to Falun Gong sources, she was beaten by other inmates, apparently prompted by prison officials, shortly before her release.
Whole article here: http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/chn-summary-eng

[Juna]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
Jun

As I have heard it is more of a cult following and not a true qigong skill. Your thoughts?

I started practicing several kinds of Qi Gong about twenty years ago.
but after I practiced Falun Gong in 1996, I really realized that I had found what I had been looking for.

[Juna]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
, but its kinda hard or rather impossible to defend some of the things he says..... I still support Falun Gong though even tho i dont practice it. How could you not when their being murdered by the hundreds? But i think hes hurting more than helping your cause.... ... [/B]

Thank you for your support.

About your doubt, I think we can explain a little later. Maybe sth is not just as what we have known.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SPJ
There are more than one Budda.



Right.........

[Juna]

Originally posted by SPJ



Many people are listening.

:D [/B]

I think we can discuss this question later on, because some people are influenced by CCP's propaganda. And I have to tell them the truth at first.

[Juna]

Originally posted by Taomonkey
Regardless of the politics associated with Falun, Its a great set of ChiGong excercises. My teacher showed me the same (almost) forms about 7 years ago and refered to them as the Great Law Wheel Chi Gung Set.

Falun Gong practitioners are not dealing with politic affairs. We only oppose this evil persecution.

[Juna]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Excuse me for being skeptical, but can you provide proof that Falun Gong practitioners are being mass murdered?

Also, if thats the case don't you think that us nosey Americans would of stepped in long ago?



According to incomplete statistics, within the past five years beginning on July 20, 1999, more than 1076 practitioners have been verified as being tortured to death in over 30 provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities. However, according to the government's official internal statistics, the actual number of practitioners who died after being arrested had reached 1,600 by the end of 2001. In addition, there are at least 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners who have been illegally sentenced to prison. Over 100,000 practitioners have been sentenced to forced labor camps. Thousands of practitioners have been forcefully sent to psychiatric hospitals to be tortured with injections that are damaging to the central nervous system. Large groups of Falun Gong practitioners have been forcefully sent to local brainwashing classes, where they have been subjected to both physical and mental torture. Many more practitioners have been severely beaten and had large sums of money extorted from them by so-called "law-enforcement officials." When large numbers of Falun Gong practitioners are beaten to death, injured, and their families are broken up, when they have to leave home and go from place to place because of the persecution, millions of Falun Gong practitioners' families, relatives, good friends and colleagues are also implicated and brainwashed to varying degrees.

Listed below are the names of the Falun Gong practitioners who have died from torture, and a brief description of their cases. Hopefully, these dreadful experiences and agonizing scenes will arouse consciences and stir hearts all over the world.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/death_list.html



U.S. House of Representatives Unanimously Passes Resolution Urging Chinese Government to Cease Its Oppression of Falun Gong Practitioners in the United States and in China
At 8pm Eastern Time on October 4, 2004, the House of the Representatives in the U.S. unanimously passed H. Con. Resolution 304, expressing the sense of Congress regarding oppression by the Government of the People's Republic of China of Falun Gong in the United States and in China. The resolution expressed the sense that the Government of the People's Republic of China should immediately stop interfering in the exercise of religious and political freedoms within the United States, such as the right to practice Falun Gong, that are guaranteed by the United States Constitution, cease using the diplomatic missions in the United States to spread falsehoods about the nature of Falun Gong, and release from detention all prisoners of conscience, including practitioners of Falun Gong.


The H. Con. Res. 304 was initiated by Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and co-sponsored by 75 congresspeople. It was unanimously passed yesterday evening (October 4) by the representatives.


The resolution expressed the sense that the president of the United States should take actions such as working more closely with Chinese human rights activists to identify Chinese authorities who have been personally responsible for acts of violence and persecution in the People's Republic of China; and the Attorney General should investigate reports that Chinese consular officials in the United States have committed illegal acts while attempting to intimidate or inappropriately influence Falun Gong practitioners or local elected officials, and, in consultation with the Secretary of State, determine an appropriate legal response.

[Juna]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
The group was outlawed July 29, 1999, and the U.S. passed its first resolution criticising China for the crackdown on Nov. 18, 1999. That's a pretty fast response, all things considering.

But yeah, Li --

You are cheated by the propagada of CCP or by the media influenced by CCP's propagada, you know, when some media reported sth about Falun Gong, they copied the things in CCP's media, but now things are changing, many people and media have known CCP alway tells lies about Falun Gong.

[Juna]

Originally posted by lkfmdc


do not ever forget this

it is a dangerous practice and one that has resulted in problems such as these..... [/B]


Falun Gong forbids killing and suicide. Falun Gong Practitioners hold themselves to high moral standards in the society. The principles of Falun Gong explicitly state that killing or suicide is a sin.

[Juna]

Now there are Falun Gong practitioners in more than 60 countries, and why there is not a single report about killing and suicide in any other country? Instead, many local governments gave recognization and awards to Falun Gong.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW

The group was targeting party members and public officials in the smaller towns and such. They would invite them to their functions, work very hard at getting them to join, and if not, at getting them to look favorably or turn a blind eye to the group.


[/B]

This is not your memory of the things in the past, but the memory of CCP's propagada.

Falun Gong practitioners are not targeting anyone, everyone is welcome if he wants to have a try.

Not everyone is after politic power, Falun Gong practitioners are trying to achieve enlightenment, but not gain sth in this material world.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW



There were also reports of higher ups in the organization...and even the two highest guys under Li using their position to train young women in the "Advanced" aspects of Falun Dafa....
[/B]

I have not seen this report. Falun Gong has not formal organization, no leaders, no name lists, no fixed places, everyone is normal practitioner, there is only one Master, how come there are two highest guys?

I am considering you misplaced other things into Falun Gong.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SPJ
Apologize. I have some questions.

Just wonder how the Qi Gong is better or different from Daoist or Shaolin Chan/Da Mo Qi gong?

How the "moral" cultivation is different from great vehicle, small vehicle and Da Lai Lama?
:)

Many different, not easy to explain with short words, would you please visit here and I think you will know sth.
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/enlighten_index.html
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/health_index.html
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/peacereport_index.html

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
yes. Please see your or the chinese embassy websites

www.chinaembassy.org




Do not believe the things in that website, CCP is good at lying, rational people knows this.

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire

Da lai is the mechanism to transmit the dharma or teachings ( quite seperate to himself) leading to buddha nature ( or universal awreness ) , Lihong Zhi advocates getting you there via himself.

vast difference! [/B]

Falun Gong practitioners are trying to assimilate to the nature of the universe-----Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance, and achieve the level of higher dimensions.

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire

that's life bud....but law is law and suicide is crazy, and murder and breaking the is law unacceptable, empathise as one might. [/B]

OK! First let us see what is the truth of Self-immolation.

After the immolation incident occurred on January 23, 2001, the Chinese Government's mouthpiece, Xinhua News Agency, immediately published a report on the incident entirely blaming Falun Gong practitioners for the immolation. This was in stark contrast to the way news is usually handled in China, where lower-level officials report to their superiors and so on until the top officials allow the news to be published. Soon after the news was released, the Falun Dafa Information Center in New York published a press release on the morning of January 23 (US eastern time) condemning the Xinhua News Agency for spreading unfounded, defamatory claims about Falun Gong. It also called on the PRC regime to allow the world media and international human rights groups to investigate this case to clarify the facts.

A week later, CCTV, the Chinese Central Government's official TV station, broadcasted heartbreaking pictures of the 12-year-old Liu Siying, who was severely burned. Her mother Liu Chunling died from the self-immolation. The government is intensifying the campaign against Falun Gong by forcing every citizen to sign a form condemning Falun Gong. They are using the pictures of Liu Siying to instigate the public's hatred towards Falun Gong, causing the Chinese people to fight amongst themselves. This kind of inciting the people to fight against each other was one of the main tactics used in the Cultural Revolution in China decades ago.

On February 4, 2001, Washington Post published a stunning front-page investigative report entitled: "Human Fire Ignites Chinese Mystery -- Motive for Public Burning Intensifies Fight Over Falun Gong." The article provided several facts including the following:

Please watch the video which based on Chinese CCTV, and see the truth!

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/self-immolation.html

[Juna]

Originally posted by SPJ
If the report is true, I have to disagree on many fronts.

1) The first and foremost is that who has the power or right to make the judgement of right or wrong. Is there a fair trial? innocent till proven guilty?

2) On reincarnation theory. This life you become in the consciousness of human which means you did good in your last life. Or you will be in the animal realm or lower.

3) Buddha and others think the human state is the best realm to study, practice, meditate to reach enlightenment.

4) You kyll yourself and others. You commit more crimes by taking a life or something does not belong to you. You definately will be lower in your next life. For to kyll is the worst crime.

5) On the other hand, to save life including yours will promote your self toward enlightenment either this life or next.

6) Atonement and repaying the privous life debts with doing something good and not more bad stuff.

7) Nobody is counting the good or bad. Nobody is administering justice not even Buddha.

8) Whatever you do will come back to you. Karma.


Falun Gong forbits killing and suicide, CCP has tried its best to find the proof to attack Falun Gong, but cannot. So, some bad people used their power to produce fake cases to impute Falun Gong.

[Juna]

Originally posted by tug
And just trying to use "mysticism" as a money-maker for himself.
[/B]

Falun Gong practitioners are not required to hand in one cent to Master Li.
Let us say you want to practitice now, and go to a practice site of Falun Gong and you will be helped whole-heartedly. No membership, no fees, no organization, no leader, no worship, no regulation, no taboo, but a practitioner must be a good person at the very least.
Do you think Master Li want to get rich this way?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by Juna
Falun Gong was first introduced to the public on May 13, 1992. By the end of 1998, by the Chinese government's own estimate, there were 70 - 100 million people in China who had taken up the practice. Falun Gong had become "the largest voluntary organization in China, larger even than the Communist party." (U.S. News and World Report February 1999 issue)



Summary: To determine the health effect of Falun Gong, we conducted a survey among some Falun Gong practitioner in five districts in Beijing, with 12,731 valid questionnaires. Our results show that Falun Gong¡¯s disease healing rate is 99.1% with a cure rate of 58.5%; Improvement rate is 80.3% in physical health and 96.5% in mental health. The survey indicates that Falun Gong has a significant effect in disease healing and health promotion. Falun Gong is an excellent Qi-gong that benefits people both physically and mentally.
Whole article here:
http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2002/4/11/184.html

really good information. There is no doubt that falun serves may great purposes, but because of past atrocities commited as direct result of that practice, it has unfortunately received some extremely negative press and has comprimised the right to freedom of those practices for other more innocent practioners.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

thinking his perspective might be interesting, had BL run this past her chinese cop-friend.......

he is bound by law, but from what I hear a practical and compassionate man.......

he says, crux of the matter is many chinese still even today see the value in falun gong as a practice and acknowledge its benifits, and unforunately for chinas political state, what it came down to is that Lihong Zhi had more supporters than the goverment there was willing to accept. And with that, they took to proclaiming both his lunacy and intent to "take control of the country". That amount of support comprimises their political secruity and won't be allowed to go on.

btw, still no excuse for murder, gencide ( nor suicide) on either side, but far as I can see, a good take on it. And that folks is china.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

if I were a sceptic I'd call everything you said conspirital theoried! ;)

We want to support you. what else you got???

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
if I were a sceptic I'd call everything you said conspirital theoried! ;)

We want to support you. what else you got???

Have you watched this film which has earned a award in a film exhibition, if you have, you are sure to know how evil CCP is to produce this suicide case and impute Falun Gong. And also you would realize how did other cases come from.

Self-Immolation Hoax on Tiananmen Square (http://en.minghui.org/cc/88/)

[Juna]

International Education Development (IED)'s Statement at the U.N.



UNITED NATIONS

Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights
Fifty-third session
Agenda item 6

August, 2001

International Education Development has followed the topic of terrorism and human rights for many years and we welcomed the appointment of the Sub-Commission's Special Rapporteur Mme. Koufa in 1996. ... We strongly agree with the Special Rapporteur that State terrorism in the form of government terror against its own people -- what she calls "terrorism from above" -- produces far more gross violations of human rights than any other form of terrorism. ...When a regime resorts to State terrorism, the international community can expect to be overwhelmed with cases under the international mechanisms and swamped with persons seeking asylum from that regime. Such is the case in China with the regime's violent assault on practitioners of Falun Gong.

In our statement under item 3 we described the Falun Gong Practice as we have found it to be. The government, in exercise of the right to reply, attempted to justify its State terrorism against the group by calling it an "[Chinese government's slanderous words deleted]" that has caused deaths and the break-up of families. In our investigation, the only deaths have been at the hands of the Chinese authorities; families have been broken up because family members have been killed by the regime; people have been broken down, not by Falun Gong, but by extreme torture, incarceration in mental hospitals with brutal treatment, hard labour in labour camps and other such practices. As was reported in the International Herald Tribune on August 6, 2001, the regime admits that it has officially sanctioned violence against practitioners in order to wipe out Falun Gong. The regime points to a supposed self-immolation incident in Tiananmen Square on January 23, 2001 as proof that Falun Gong is an "[Chinese government's slanderous words deleted]". However, we have obtained a video of that incident that in our view proves that this event was staged by the government. We have copies of that video available for distribution.

In his most recent report ( U.N. Doc. E/CN.4/2001/66, the Commission's Special Rapporteur on Torture attests to tens of thousands detained and tortured practitioners. (Paras. 246-290). The Commission's Special Rapporteurs on Violence against Women and Extrajudicial Executions also attest to these abuses, with similar indications as to numbers. (E/CN.4/2001/73/Add.1, para. 19; E/CN.4/2001/[ ]). We are compiling evidence indicating that at least 50,000 Falun Gong practitioners are detained in prisons, labour camps or mental hospitals, of which thousands are beaten and many tortured to death. Hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of practitioners are severely threatened. The UN mechanisms clearly cannot handle this volume of verified cases, nor can the international community easily cope with perhaps millions of asylum seekers -- all of whom would clearly meet asylum criteria. Accordingly, the international community as a whole and the Sub-Commission in particular should address this situation of State terrorism as one of extreme urgency.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2001/9/9/13711.html

[SPJ]

Thanks for the detailed and chronological reports of events.

1) The believers or practitioners outnumbered the CCP cadres. True.

However, the real threats are from ideology. If you have a thought to tell people what is right or wrong. People start to use that thought to question everything including the power of the ruling party.

CCP enjoyed support from the majority of peasants (farmers), more than 90% of the whole population in China from the very beginning of CCP to today in 21 century.

If there is a replacing ideology/thought or a leader or an organization, that is bigger or stronger??

2) Agreed. Politics is always about mobilizing a group of people/mass against the other group. Their being wrong is your being right, thus your power to lead. The basis of power is support of people/mass. If you have a mass of Fa Lun practitioners, you have power. Whatever you say will be followed by the mass.

3) You may suppress the mass of believers and take away their liberty. However, to stamp out the thoughts or roots of thinking is almost impossible, unless you have open discussions.

In short, if Fa Lun is right then CCP is wrong. That is what CCP fears. China's rulers are always tolerant of individuals, till you have a mass of people, then you will be watched. Anything threatens the power base, you will be suppressed as a group.

Everybody is apalled by the human atrocities or tragedies.

[SPJ]

If Fa Lun is legit and good, it will stand the trials of the time and prosper.

The Romans tries to suppress Christians thruout its empire. The Christians flourish, outgrow and outlive the empire.

The truth will come out. The righteous will win out in the end and have hearts of the people.

On the other hand, if it is not. Once the charisma of the leader is gone and so are the mass.

[SPJ]

TCM theory of Ba Duan Jin Qi Gong (the most widely practiced Qi Gong since Song dynasty).

The moves help to regulate 3 burners. (Tiau Li San Jiao)

It helps the upper, mid and lower burners in your body. It expands and shrinks your chest to help the heart and lung. It massages your internal organs and helps digestive functions.

It expels the waste Qi and takes in O2 and Qi from the Tien and Di, heaven and earth. So there are Tien Di Ren San He. There harmonies among the heaven, people and the earth.

TCM theory of Ba Gua walk Qi Gong.

The Ba Gua circle walks help to regulate and open up your Ren Du Er Mai (conception and governing vessels) and improve your health and longevity.

So the question is that Fa Lun Qi Gong, what is the theory and practice?

How is the practice of Fa Lun Qi Gong coupled to Buddhist enlightenment?

:confused:

[GLW]

Juna,

your bias is so blatantly obvious - as a Falun Gong member, that your ability to spearate the wheat from the chaft is impaired.

In skimming your voluminous posts...one after another, the quote from Hamlet comes to mind "Methinks (s)he doth protest too much..."

Whether or not ALL of the issues on the Falun Gong folks is true or not is one for debate but the bottom line is that it is still an internal issue with the Chinese government.

Now, if you are in a society and deem that the system does not work for you and is oppressive, you CAN oppose said regime. In doing so, you may very well kill or be killed. Each person desiring freedom must amke a choice in that area. But it is FIRST their choice to make BEFORE any outside group would or should be involved. Freedom is NEVER given to anyone...but always earned...and all too often it is earned in blood.

The Falun Gong folks defied the PRC government by having a 10,000+ demonstration in Beijing at Tienanmen Square AFTER they were denied permission to have the event.

When they did it anyway, they HAD to know that this put them on a collision course with the PRC government.

So, the followers in the PRC are going against the laws of their government... knowingly... But where is Li Hongshi during all of this.

For the leader of the group and as a person that is more than willing to tell others how their methods are incomplete and wrong, it appears that he has suprisingly little personal skin in the game....

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
Juna,

Whether or not ALL of the issues on the Falun Gong folks is true or not is one for debate but the bottom line is that it is still an internal issue with the Chinese government.


No, this is the concept of CCP and all the dictatorial regimes.

Not everything is China is the internal issue of Chinese government. For example, when sb's neighbor who has drunk too much and is trying to kill his children, do you think this is the drunk person's family's internal affair? Do you think everyone who knows this should stop the drunk person at once?

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
Juna,
The Falun Gong folks defied the PRC government by having a 10,000+ demonstration in Beijing at Tienanmen Square AFTER they were denied permission to have the event.

....


The gathering of Falun Gong practitioners was not at Tiananmen Square! It was at the gate of State Council Appeal Office.

We did not ask the permission of demonstration, because no one organized that, therefore, how come we were denied permission?
And this was not a demonstration, we went there to appeal.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by Juna
Falun Gong is much different than ordinary qigong, Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law.



:eek: :eek: sacrildge!! If they had the buddha law and called it that, they'd be buddhist. Buddha law involves detatchment !! Falun gong is mainly different, because it has a master ( not neccessarily physically either) that you cultivate to and through and other branches don't. End of story. that's the difference

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
End of story. that's the difference [/B]

Falun Gong is diferent from Buddism, and not related to the teachings in Buddhism.

[SPJ]

Juna;

Thank you very much for sharing all the stories and info.

I watched the Qi Gong exercise videos. I like it very much.

Chinese politics sometimes is very illusive to outsiders.

Politics is a number game. Politics is about the balance in power.

Here are some theories;

1) There are 4 millions CCP cadres and 1 million PLA. Fa Lun followers may be 10 to 20 million. There are 1 billion (1000 Mil's) people in China and 28 Mil in Taiwan.

2) If you practice Qi gong and study Buddhism on a personal level as a self improvement for health and mind, it is positive to the people and the country.

3) However, the organization is what CCP fears. There are signs of public support on a very fundamental level. CCP is much afraid. A simple issue or request needs the Premier to mitigate. What is next? A big cloud is hanging. The thunderstorm or the hurricane or tornado is forming. --

4) With or without Fa Lun, power struggle (Quan Li Do Zhen) is always ongoing. To stay in power, you have to belong to a group (Dang or Pai Si) and struggle as a group. The leader usually represents a subset of people. Nobody goes along in Chinese politics for 5000 years of its written history.

5) The struggle of Fa Lun must divide CCP into pro or con groups. The cons may be in power right now, however, the table may turn anytime, when enough people sentiments on Fa Lun side are outnumbering again, the pro group will rise to power.

As a civilian, let us focus on the study and practice on a personal level. Let the power of politics or the number game play itself out. You have to read and study 5000 years of Chinese history to know all about the ins and outs of politics in the middle kingdoms.

There will always be persecutions of one group of people by the other for one way or the other. Today is Fa Lun, tommorrow may be some other group.

Chinese people are mostly silent but aware. The people will survive. They survive 5000 years of wars and political struggles, didn't they?

[GLW]

As for the demonstration : That took place a few years ago...just before the PRC outlawed Falun Gong. The story of the demonstration was posted in a number of Asian news sources as well as the Falun Gong's organization's news/newsletter web site. It chronicled how they had requested permission to have their rally, were turned down, and then 10,000 peacefully did it anyway. It also chronicled how a number of the "leaders" were then arrested for the demonstration (illegally leading a demonstration that had been denied) a few days later. Now, if I got the site wrong, that is immaterial.

The point is that they were told that they could NOT hold their rally. They did it anyway. They took the consequences for that action. That demonstration was the final action that led to the big discussions that ended up with Falun Gong being outlawed.

Seems to me like they WANTED to push the envelope for a confrontation. THAT is hardly following a peaceful Dafa path....

The fact that you say "WE went there to appeal..." reveals your total bias. However, you did NOT deny that your group WAS there, nor did you deny the numbers. The PRC conservatively placed the count at 10,000 and at the time, the Falun Gong sites were claiming 10,000+.

Can't have it both ways.

"Falun Gong is much different than ordinary qigong, Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law."

Yet his own writings say that Buddha Law is incorrect, incomplete, and , as with all other religions and Qi Gong methods, off base and nowhere near as perfect as Falun Gong.

Rather arrogant and misguided it would seem to me. Given that a person that is truly enlightened would be calm and humble, such arrogance says that Li is offbase.

Juna, you obviously LIKE your Falun Gong and enjoy it. Fine. But there is no reason for others to be bothered with your approaches or the likes of Li Hongzhi.

If you want to fight a battle to be recognized in China...fine. However, YOU start the fight. And have the illustrious Li Hongzhi be leading the charge.

While there IS repression in China, Falun Gong is small potatoes. The ONLY reason the US did any resolutions on it to begin with was that it was a very convenient political tool to put on the table in negotiations with China on other things. If it had not been Falun Gong, it would have been the brutal murder of Shar Pei puppies or the abuse of innocent goldfish.

Sorry, but the US congress could care less about Falun gong...and in actuality, most of the population of the US would have their Judeo-Christian sensibilities jangled if a Falun Gong group moved in next door.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
As for the demonstration : That took place a few years ago...just before the PRC outlawed Falun Gong. The story of the demonstration was posted in a number of Asian news sources as well as the Falun Gong's organization's news/newsletter web site. It chronicled how they had requested permission to have their rally, were turned down, and then 10,000 peacefully did it anyway. It also chronicled how a number of the "leaders" were then arrested for the demonstration (illegally leading a demonstration that had been denied) a few days later. Now, if I got the site wrong, that is immaterial.

The point is that they were told that they could NOT hold their rally. They did it anyway. They took the consequences for that action. That demonstration was the final action that led to the big discussions that ended up with Falun Gong being outlawed.



No, what you saw are the lies of CCP from CCP's media or certain media of other countries copied CCP' s propaganda.

We did not request permission, because it was not a demonstration and no one organized it.

CCP is good at lying, as you age I think you should know that. Remember the case of SARS?

If you want to know sth, donot read it from CCP's media, this is an useful advice, really.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW



Can't have it both ways.

"Falun Gong is much different than ordinary qigong, Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law."

Yet his own writings say that Buddha Law is incorrect, incomplete, and , as with all other religions and Qi Gong methods, off base and nowhere near as perfect as Falun Gong.

Rather arrogant and misguided it would seem to me. Given that a person that is truly enlightened would be calm and humble, such arrogance says that Li is offbase.[/B]

Have you read Master Li's original book? I think you only read sth from CCP's media, Master Li never wrote sth as you post. The meaning of the words would change if interpreted by others.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW

Juna, you obviously LIKE your Falun Gong and enjoy it. Fine. But there is no reason for others to be bothered with your approaches or the likes of Li Hongzhi.
[/B]

I think I did not bother you, I only tell you that you have repeated the lies of CCP.

I am here telling kind persons what is the truth of Falun Gong, because too many lies produced by CCP have spread worldwide, and many people are cheated, I think telling the truth does not bother anyone, people have the rights to know the truth, unless sb just likes to be cheated by CCP, and that is his own choice.

[SPJ]

Well said.

Agreed on voicing the truth.

Here are my favorite analogies about the truth.

A true gold will not be tried by a fire. (Zhen Jing Bu Pa Huo Lien)

And the paper may not cover the fire. (Zi Bao Bu Zhu Huo)

Thank your for voicing it.

:cool:

[GLW]

"No, what you saw are the lies of CCP from CCP's media or certain media of other countries copied CCP' s propaganda.

We did not request permission, because it was not a demonstration and no one organized it."


Strange...what I read WAS the Falun gong organization's website a few years ago. They STATED that they were being repressed because they asked for the permission to hold their Falun Gong Day demonstration and were turned down. They then stated how they demonstrated to get freedom to do their thing anyway and what followed up. It was NOT the PRC's news page.

I then followed that up at the time with reading what the PRC had to say as well as other sources that covered it. I also read up on it via the Cult Watch site, Amnesty International and Googled it. Mind you, that was a few years ago... I was curious because I had seen a Falun Gong group doing a demo and listened to their stuff...and recognized it as Qi Gong for the masses with a cultish leader thrown in for good measure ...not as bad as the moonies...but similar...and I WAS curious.

AND I DID follow that up with actually purchasing Li Hongzhi's book - not because I wanted to do Falun Gong but so I would know first hand what he was saying.

Sorry...but Li Hongzhi is disorganized in his writing and thought. He is also about as close to being a certifiable looney as you can get and still be walking the streets. I was surprised that in his pictures he did NOT have the tinfoil hat that so many folks dealing with UFO's have.

I started to highlight how many passages in his book were so totally off the wall that they showed the man was insane...but stopped when I realized that I would go through a number of highlighter pens in doing so.

He DOES state up front that his method IS the only true one and that if you trace it all back, that people lived longer and were happier eons ago and that his Falun Dafa has its roots from the aliens....

My only regret in this is that Li got my money via Barnes and Noble... I would have rather gotten the book for free rather than support this kind of stuff by buying one. However, ANYONE that I know that has shown any curiosity in what is said therein gets the offer of a loan of my book so they can read for themselves..... without supporting him financially.

Believe what you will...but I would love to see what Penn and Teller would do with this on their show....

[SPJ]

Again it is not the people or person CCP is after.

It is the idea of an organization or group CCP is after.

How many people you gonna jail or reeducate?

It is always about getting one and warning hundreds.

Today is Li or Fa Lun.

Any other cult or religion like personata or faith ORGANIZATIONS tommorrow, any one?

OR ANY ORGANIZED GROUP challenging those in power?

Peace.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
Um i think your missing the point CPA. They shouldn't be banning religion at all. Communism can be cold and calculating which is why it would be so easy for "dangerous cults" to crop up in the first place. You can't suppress peoples spirituality, and i dont think communists took a popular vote when they came into power.

It's a bit more complex than just "banning religions". China allows all individuals to belong to their religion of choice. The problems start when they start trying to convert anyone else. Then there are permits and red tape involved. Falun Gong decided that they were bigger than the law and ignored the red tape. Plus they were making the PRC government uncomfortable with the rate at which they were gaining converts to begin with. Thus they got come down on hard.

I'll note - to the other buddhists in the audience that Buddha did council that whenever one could obey the law without committing wrong action, one should do so. Falun Gong could have chosen to go through the process of PRC red tape before attempting to gain converts and chose not to.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
:eek: :eek: sacrildge!! If they had the buddha law and called it that, they'd be buddhist. Buddha law involves detatchment !! Falun gong is mainly different, because it has a master ( not neccessarily physically either) that you cultivate to and through and other branches don't. End of story. that's the difference

Being a bit of an iconoclastic Buddhist, I am slow to cry things like sacrilege. That being said, I question the fitness of Qigong to transmit the Dharma. Yes, meditation is vital but, without a focus meditation is just so much relaxation. What are the key tenents of Falun Gong, how do they differ vis. Buddhist scripture with Ch'an or Pure Land? Is Falun Gong Mahayana, Theravada or Vajryana?

Don't refer me to the master of Falun Gong's book, I am poor and can not afford to go out and buy extra books outside of what I need for school. If there is validity to Falun Gong (something which I currently do not believe but am willing to consider with appropriate proof) than a practicioner should be able to sum up how Falun Gong differs from other branches of Buddhism.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
Buddha Law is not limited in Buddism, Buddha Shakyamuni said there are numerous Buddhas as the number of grains of the sand of Ganges. Every Buddha has his own law, not limited to the teaching of Buddha Shakyamuni.
Falun Gong is diferent from Buddism, and not related to the teachings in Buddhism.

Thank you. It would appear that Falun Gong is in fact based on a misunderstanding of the Buddha's teachings regarding the cyclical nature of time/history. Well, you've now mostly lost me (if Master Li claims to be the next Buddha you will have completely lost me).

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
We did not request permission, because it was not a demonstration and no one organized it.


So are you saying that 10000 people did not assemble or that 10000 people assembled spontaneously without any organization. I have been involved in the organization a few protests in my day and getting 10000+ people who all feel VERY STRONGLY about something requires a couple months of careful planning and advertising.

Or are all Falun Gong practitioners telepathically connected?

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW


He DOES state up front that his method IS the only true one and that if you trace it all back, that people lived longer and were happier eons ago and that his Falun Dafa has its roots from the aliens....
[/B]

Not true.......

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM
It's a bit more complex than just "banning religions". China allows all individuals to belong to their religion of choice. The problems start when they start trying to convert anyone else. Then there are permits and red tape involved. Falun Gong decided that they were bigger than the law and ignored the red tape. Plus they were making the PRC government uncomfortable with the rate at which they were gaining converts to begin with. Thus they got come down on hard.



Copied from Amnesty's annual report:
Restrictions increased on the cultural and religious rights of the mainly Muslim Uighur community in Xinjiang, where thousands of people have been detained or imprisoned for so-called ¡°separatist¡± or ¡°terrorist¡± offences. In Tibet and other ethnic Tibetan areas, freedom of expression and religion continued to be severely restricted. China continued to use the international ¡°war against terrorism¡± as a pretext for cracking down on peaceful dissent.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/chn-summary-eng

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM
Don't refer me to the master of Falun Gong's book, I am poor and can not afford to go out and buy extra books outside of what I need for school. [/B]

You need not spend a cent and download Master Li's books freely.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM
So are you saying that 10000 people did not assemble or that 10000 people assembled spontaneously without any organization. I have been involved in the organization a few protests in my day and getting 10000+ people who all feel VERY STRONGLY about something requires a couple months of careful planning and advertising.

Or are all Falun Gong practitioners telepathically connected?

There are 70-100 million people practicing Falun Gong according to the government's statistics, (later on because of political reason the government changed the number to 20million,)when Tianjin police arrested some practitioners, and the police said this problem must be ask the leader of the government to solve, then some practitioners in Tianjin wanted to go to Beijing to appeal, they told the idea to their friends, and some of the friends also wanted to go, and one told another, do you think the number of 10,000 or 20,000 is too large.

About this issue, I know qite well. They were told by their friends, and they told their friends, no one organized.All went there by their own will.

This article indicates well please have a look.
"A Look Back at the April 25 Appeal Through the Eyes of a Few of its Participants"
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/5/5/47735.html

[GLW]

10,000 is the size of a small city....and larger than a lot of cities were 200 years ago....

What would happen in the US if 10,000 people were to assemble at...oh, say the Justice Department main building in Washington D.C. all at once with the same ideas and do their thing... as in a...oh my god... a DEMONSTRATION...

The police would have been cracking heads in the US....

Doubt it... look at Chicago in 1968, DC, Berkley, and go back a ways...can't recall the exact year, but after WWI, those that fought in the war were promised a certain sum of money for their work...and the US NEVER paid them.

Times were bad. A group of veterans set up shacks within a short distance of the capitol and the White House. They were there waiting for the government to pay what they were promised.

Douglas MacArthur was given the task to clear them out...and di so with weapons ... That was the ONLY time Douglas MacArthur ever saw combat personally...and ever fired on another person...and it was agianst US citizens.

THAT is the US.... Now you are saying that 10,000 people in the PRC...and there were NO beatings...simply names taken, photos, and then arrests made after the fact....

Sounds similar...except for the violence part.

And...denying the information placed upon your website several years later is very convenient. It also seems very much like the SAME tactics that the PRC uses as well. Creative history....


But then again, you have the correct way and we are all lost.

Cults are such fun....

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
And...denying the information placed upon your website several years later is very convenient. It also seems very much like the SAME tactics that the PRC uses as well. Creative history....
[/B]
The old articles are still existed at the web, you can read the articles of those days at Falun Gong websites, Falun Gong practitioners try to assimilate to the nature of the universe----Truthfulness, Beneolance and Forbearance. No lies come from Falun Gong practitioners.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
some practitioners in Tianjin wanted to go to Beijing to appeal, they told the idea to their friends, and some of the friends also wanted to go, and one told another, do you think the number of 10,000 or 20,000 is too large.



What you are describing here is the organization of a mass-protest rally. As I said, I have been involved in organizing a few myself.

As for Tibet and the Muslim population, yes there have been crackdowns on both of these orgaized ethnic groups. I can't profess to know much about the Muslim situation you mentioned but I am well versed in the Tibet issue. It is different.

Tibetans are an ethnically distinct people with a long-standing culture, alphabet, language and (yes) religion unique to their region. In the process of conquering that region, Tibetan ethnic practices (including Vajarayana Buddhism) have been suppressed. This is derived however not from an attack on Buddhism but rather from an attempt to stamp an essentially Han Chinese identity on an ethnically different group. Now correct me if I am wrong but a lot of that 70,000,000 Falun Gong population is of Han ethnic origin, yes?

Besides which, despite the fact that refering to Tibet entirely in reference to Religion is a drastic over-simplification of the situation there, Vajarayana Buddhism is a long-standing established religion, Falun Gong is not. As a NEW Religion, one would expect that Falun Gong should adhere to the rules of the society in which it was CREATED. It does not appear to have done so.

I'm sorry but I don't trust somebody that says that Space Aliens taught him Qigong that communicates the Dharma better than the Sutras. So far this is the perspective on Falun Gong I have recieved. If it is not that way, please, elucidate me.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
No lies come from Falun Gong practitioners, please remember this.

Right and I own some prime realestate in the Florida Everglades that is just waiting for a good development contract. If you had said "falun gong practicioners try to avoid lies" I might have believed you.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM

one would expect that Falun Gong should adhere to the rules of the society in which it was CREATED. It does not appear to have done so.



This is not true. The rules of Chinese society allows people to appeal to the appeal office.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM

I'm sorry but I don't trust somebody that says that Space Aliens taught him Qigong that communicates the Dharma better than the Sutras. So far this is the perspective on Falun Gong I have recieved. If it is not that way, please, elucidate me.

I am sorry to say you are cheated.

[SPJ]

Juna;

You did a good job in posting the Qi Gong and stories out.

That is more than enough.

We may not convince or convert somebody by arguing back and forth.

The fact is that it is banned in China and Singapore. However, there are many other countries, you may practice in. I think there are still practitioners practicing secretly in China.

If you are in the right, the time will come for you.

If you want other people to accept you, you have to accept others first.

Power and politics are like the wind comes and goes.

They are like the weather. They certainly will change.

China is changing so fast. Even Da Lai Lama extended an olive branch.

If Fa Lun is good as you believe very much so in, the time will come that it will be accepted.

Cheers.

:cool:

[Juna]

Originally posted by SPJ
Juna;

If Fa Lun is good as you believe very much so in, the time will come that it will be accepted.

Cheers.

:cool:

Thanks for your kind words.

But, Singapore did not ban Falun Gong.

Check here please:
http://falundafa.org.sg/

[SPJ]

Cool.

:cool:

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Juna
Thanks for your kind words.

But, Singapore did not ban Falun Gong.

/[/url]

How nice that they are welcoming to dopes.

[GLW]

Mea Culpa...

Last time I was in singapore..they were having trouble with Falun Gong and demonstrations...NOT getting the proper permits and such.

There was talk of banning other religions and I was informed that Falun Gong was already banned...

However, Singapore is a VERY orderly society. They do not allow religions or political groups to cause discord.

A registration CAN and will be revoked and a group banned if that group does not follow the laws.

Sounds like they are already going down the path of not following the laws of the land they are in....

The Unification Church...Moonies are banned as are the Jehovah's Witnesses... Seems that my sources in Singapore were equating the Moonies with Falun Gong... Now isn't that a hoot...

But, if they persist in NOT getting permits, they will also be banned. Give them time....

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW


But, if they persist in NOT getting permits, they will also be banned. Give them time....

Falun Gong practitioners try to assimilate to the nature of the universe---Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance, and must be a good person in everyday life, of ourse, we obey the laws of governments. That is why so many governments gave recognation and awards to Falun Gong.

[Zenshiite]

Falun Dafa ideas are so discombobulated that i don't think anyone here has gathered an understanding of what it is you actually believe in...

First you say it's a Buddha Law, then you say it's not Buddhism(wouldn't it be Buddhism if it was a Buddha Law?). Then it's chi gung...

Weird.

Peace,
Dawud

[Broken Wing]

:confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

Is it just me or is Juna Blooming Lotus/a.k.a. Ego? As the answers got more and more half-****ed and illogical and notice that most of the "proofs" came fromt the falun site or from falun related sites?
they then proceeded to tell us not to believe them (the communist Chinese) but believe us (the falun gong alien-taught). I am ignorant in most religions except Christianity :o (no, Mormons and Jehovah's Witness and Unitarianism/universalism, etc, etc is not part) but as the last post stated it is discombobulated. I know that Tao is "a way but no way" type of mentality but that is more conceivable than the PR for for falun gong Juna is saying :(

[Juna]

Originally posted by Broken Wing
:confused: :confused: :rolleyes:


they then proceeded to tell us not to believe them (the communist Chinese) but believe us (the falun gong alien-taught). :(

I am sorry, I cannot get your point, please use plain English.
but -----(the falun gong alien-taught)---this is not correct.

[SPJ]

I do not know Li or his path.

However, Buddhism is about knowing the truth and transcending the karmic cycles.

I tend to focus on the truth knowing part.

Why the religion is called "the awakeness"? Buddha is the awakened one.

Buddha S Dharma is not the only dharma or path to the awakenness or Buddhahood.

In short, there are many Buddhas in addition to Buddha S.

There are Buddhas before and after Buddha S.

The purpose of life is about studying, learning and practicing or finding your path and be on the way to the awakened state or consciousness.

Which means we all become Buddhas or we see each other again in the next life.

Focus on the truth and find your path.

Buddha S dharma is his path and many people follow it.

And yes Buddhism is bigger or all encompassing and includes Buddha S dharma and more.

Why?

The truth is like a light. It goes everywhere. Different people may see and perceive in different ways thus different path/dharma to remove the obstructions and soak in the light.

The path may vary, however, the destination is the same.

Peace.

[Juna]

A Story of Hope amidst Darkness
Labor Camp Survivor Recounts Ordeal in New Book

NEW YORK - At times, Ms. Wang Yuzhi struggled to read her opening speech. One of her eyes that had been blinded from torture in a Chinese labor camp gave her trouble, forcing her to use a lens to read her statement. At Earl Hall of Columbia University she talked about her new book, Crossing Over Death, ¨C a chronicle of the persecution she faced in China.
Wang was persecuted in China for refusing to give up the meditation practice Falun Gong when it was banned in 1999. She said that she gained a lot from Falun Gong.

¡°The stock market had gone down, and all my life savings with it. This caused great difficulties for my elderly mother. When I was desperate and pained, someone introduced me to Falun Gong. Through practicing it, I overcame my fear and pain, and went back to work. Eventually, I was able to build a successful business.¡± Falun Gong also helped her recover from her chronic ill health, she said in a statement.

In July of 1999, former Chinese leader, Jiang Zemin - upset at the widespread popularity of the practice - began a state-sponsored persecution of Falun Gong that utilized China¡¯s state-controlled media and all branches of China¡¯s communist government. Ms. Yuzhi, like millions of others who had benefited from the practice, went to Beijing to appeal for Falun Gong.

After that, she said, began a horrifying tale of how ¡°people who believed in truthfulness, compassion and tolerance [Falun Gong¡¯s principles] were forced to shed blood, tears and their lives for their beliefs.¡±

She was put in a labor camp where a husband was forced to watch his 6-month pregnant wife cuffed by her wrists and dangled in the air - a torture that eventually caused the woman to have a miscarriage. In the same labor camp, a few blocks away from her, a female practitioner was gang-raped by three male criminals.

In a mental hospital she was placed in just before her escape to Canada, she heard a husband sob and cry as he watched his wife being force-fed salt water by police. The wife had refused to give up Falun Gong.

Wang Yuzhi¡¯s story is touching and tragic at the same time. Mr. Feng Lin, a Chinese Communist Party history scholar and political commentator, said of the book, ¡°It reminds us that persecution and darkness still exist in today¡¯s society, and that sometimes we take our blessings for granted¡_ People say that things [in China] are better, but inside, there¡¯s still a lot of persecution, while on the outside, it¡¯s all milk and honey.¡±

Among the other speakers, Mr. Zhiyuan Wang - an investigator for the World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong - talked about his organization¡¯s attempts to document the deaths of practitioners and how the Chinese Communist Party has expended 25 percent of its national GDP on persecuting Falun Gong. One-third of which, he said, is sustained by foreign investment.

Mr. Tianliang Zhang, China Affairs Columnist for The Epoch Times (Chinese edition), said, ¡°In Ms. Wang Yuzhi¡¯s book, you will read about persecution, but nowhere do you see hatred against the persecutors. The compassion shown by Falun Gong practitioners towards their persecutors is a first in history.¡±

Ms. Wang Yuzhi¡¯s book Crossing Over Death is currently available only in Chinese.

http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-10-29/24026.html

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law, and Buddha Law is boundless, not limited in Buddhism, Buddhism is a portion of Buddha Law which transmitted by Buddha Shakyamuni, there are numerous Buddhas in the universe, Buddha Shakyamuni described the number of Buddhas as the number of the grains of the sand in Ganges.

So what does Falun Gong say that is different from the Dharma transmitted by Sakyamuni Buddha?

Oh and about the number of Buddhas, this did not mean that multiple Buddhas would convey different parts of the Dharma. It did mean that:

1: Anyone - over the course of all of their lives could find enlightenment.

2: Time is cyclical and each cycle had it's Lord Buddha. Again, is Master Li claiming to be Maitreya? Because he is the next Buddha scheduled to manifest.

[SPJ]

Good link;

It is a news and witness or testimony stories (Zhengjian) web site.

I enjoyed the history and Chinese proverbs pages.

The predictions and comments on world events are interesting.

Cheers.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
[B]your questions could get answers easily from reading Master Li's book if you really want to know.
B]


Juna, you miss my point. I want YOU to explain it.

Imagine, if you will, that you had never heard anything about Christianity other than 'they say that if you don't worship a dead guy you will suffer eternal torment for eternity'. Now let's say that, having an enquiring sort of mind, you decided not to take that entirely at face value and asked a Christian to explain their religion to you.

The Christian says "christians believe in charity, temperance and fortitude" (three of the greatest christian virtues).

Now this doesn't mesh with "believe in dead guy or burn in eternal ****ation" so you say to the Christian: What gives? This seems like a bit of a discrepancy.

And now, imagine this Christian says "well, it's all in the bible, if you want to know what my faith is about, read it".

Now, the bible is a rather long book and I am guessing that "master" Li's works make up more than just a quick little pamphlet. In my comparative framework, the Christian could have said "We believe that the first humans gained knowlege of good and evil and were thus expelled from paradise. Many years later our creator deity (who we believe to be the only deity and who we call God or Jehova) incarnated in a human form who gave himself up for saccrifice to absolve the sins of mankind. Before his death, Jesus (god's incarnate form) gave us a series of moral imperatives such as charity, temperance and fortitude that we are to adhere in order to gain access to a happy after-life". This is quite a bit less text than in the bible and yet provides a general overview of what Christianity is basically about.

I am asking you to do the same with Falun Gong. You clearly want to convince people that Falun Gong is a legitimate faith. Here is your chance, here is your soapbox. I'm not rushing out to read "master" Li's book, I want to hear what the laity of the faith believes first.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM

I am asking you to do the same with Falun Gong. You clearly want to convince people that Falun Gong is a legitimate faith. Here is your chance, here is your soapbox. I'm not rushing out to read "master" Li's book, I want to hear what the laity of the faith believes first.

I feel sorry to say my understanding to the great Law and my English is limited, so please read Master Li's book.

[SimonM]

Ah but Juna, you miss a couple of important points.

1: I want a one or two paragraph blurb summing up the core metaphysical assertations of your faith and how it corresponds to the ethical assertations of your faith.

2: I want the perspective of a lay practitioner, not the founder. Often more can be learned about a faith by examining how an ordinary member of the faith observes it than it's potentates. (Again, using a christian example, I would not look at the Pope to learn what I wanted to know about Catholicism, it would give me a skewed image).

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Juna
Since you responsed quickly, so I can response before next week.
Read this then:

That is just how the ¡°cutting edge¡± scholars of Buddhism see it. They merely study it on a theoretical level, subjecting it to criticism and so-called research, as if it were philosophy.


That's a bold faced lie. I don't have time to comment on the rest now but I will later.

Needless to say, I am not impressed by Li Hongzhi.

[Juna]

Sources from an anonymous high-level Communist Party official indicate that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) plans to make the practice of Falun Gong legal in China, and to restore its reputation. In the language of the CCP, Falun Gong will be ¡°redressed.¡± High-level officials have clandestinely sent out investigators to Shanghai and other areas in China to collect people¡¯s opinions about the ¡°610 Office,¡± a nationwide network of administrative agencies created to persecute Falun Gong practitioners. The information collected will be used to draft a policy for ending the more than five years-long persecution.
Whole article here:
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-11-9/24248.html

[SPJ]

Not surprised.

Now the power is shifted from Jiang to Hu.

Some sort of reconciliations will occur to bring the 80 some millions followers back to the main stream society.

Atonement is on the way.

Eventually, the '89 student peaceful demo will be reconciled, too. But it would take much longer time.

Culture revolution was reconciled to some what extent by Deng after Mao's passing away. Gang of four was symbolically "tried" and Mao's wife was placed in house arrest. She still chanted "Rebel with reasons" (Zhao Fan You Li) in the people's court.

All in due time.

Thus the wave or tide of the sea or eclipse of the moon of the power and politics will come and go.

Hm;

Most prefer Buddha dharma. Law is used by Daoists as the way or Dao.

There are more than one Buddha dharma.

There is only one law/way/dao in the nature and universe.

Peace.

[tug]

Get your people off my front porch!!!

[SPJ]

Chinese politics 101;

Always listen to legends or folk tales.

In 1989, the students demo spread across China. CCN was televising live a peaceful revolution unfolding. The students' requests are reasonable.

Zhao Zi Yang promised to consider the requests and tell the students to leave the Tian An Men square to no avail.

Nobody seemed to know what to do.

Mayor of Shanghai, Jiang Ze Ming wrote an article on the newspaper to tell the students to go home peacefully. In the time of uncertainty, Jiang clearly espoused a rational and the middle of the road approach. The interests of the country and CCP are his priorities.

Jiang was handpicked by Deng to be trusted with the future of China and CCP. On the other hand, Zhao and his group of people were stripped of power for life. They were the original engineers of China's economy when China first opened door. They were considered to move too fast and endanger the stability of the country and the party. Thus no more power will be restored to them.

The student crackdown was ordered by Deng. Only he had the power. The stinking name of 10 thousand years was layed on Li Peng and the army units that did the crackdown. There was no honor in using an Army against your own people you are supposed to protect.

Jiang was considered a "soft" leader. He did carry out the middle of the road policy and continue open door policy after Deng.

Hu is considered a "hardliner" leader. He was very tough in Tibet. He was thus elected to be the new leader. Jiang was blamed to be too soft and let too many problems become more serious. Such as Taiwan problem.

Taiwan under DPP, the latest approaches toward "independence";

1) Republic of China is Taiwan. Taiwan is ROC.

2) Do not recognise the document in "Cairo Meeting" that said Taiwan returns to China as a condition for Japan's surrender in WWII and Taiwan is part of China. So Taiwan existed after 1945 but not part of China. Well then, Taiwan is then still part of Japan?

3) Separation of history of Taiwan from history of China. So Dr. Sun Yet Sen is a foreigner.

on and on

Most people would expect a tougher line from Hu for the years to come.

[Juna]

For the second time in three months, Falun Gong practitioners have filed a lawsuit against a high-ranking Chinese official visiting Africa. Gansu Province Party Secretary Su Rong was served on November 4 while visiting the southern African nation of Zambia, where he was ordered to stay pending a court appearance.
Su Rong is the second high-ranking Chinese official to be sued in Africa and the first official to be forced to remain in a foreign country.

In early August, former Education Minister Chen Zhili was sued in Tanzania. She reportedly fled the country after a date was set for her to face trial.

According to a China Broadcasting Corporation online news report on November 10, Su was part of an official Chinese delegation visiting several countries in Africa. The delegation is led by Wu Bangguo, who chairs the People¡¯s Congress. Their itinerary began with a visit to Kenya on October 29, then on to Zimbabwe, Zambia and Nigeria. They arrived in Zambia on November 4, planning to stay two days.

However, on the first day of the stay, Su was served with papers by the court, requiring him to appear this week. The Chinese delegation then left Zambia, leaving Su behind to face the charges against him.

Whole article here:
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-11-11/24291.html

[SPJ]

Sorry to interrupt.

The 89 student demo actually made the pro-student and pro-change people in CCP out of power. In their place, Jiang was a middle of the roader.

So while you are seeking your goals, always watch for who are your friends and not just focus on who are your opponents.

You win by winning hearts of more friends.

You would lose a lot, if you only see "what you like to see".

China turned into more practical economically.

On the other hand, Taiwan was bound by Independence ideaology.

Sort of reverse roles for both.

If people sticks too strongly to ideaology, great disasters will occur.

To build a communist paradise in a farmer majority China.

To claim independence by changing history books and deny ourself being Chinese by saying China is the enemy of Taiwan.

We are Chinese by blood and culture. The political differences of a communist rule and a democratic system are in dispute.

How can one only see "independence" and denies everything else.

The struggle between the 2 sides of the Taiwan strait is 2 political systems in dispute.

It was never about China is China or Taiwan is Taiwan.

Win friends.

Or so focus on the opponent and lose sight of everything else.

[Ken]

Li Hongzhi did not "make up" Great Law. Here is another discription, From the book "Science of being" by Monk Eugene Ferson in 1920-

The 3 Laws of the absolute

1. Life, mind ,truth, love, spirit is all in all.
2. The same Law governs always, everything, everywhere, from smallest to biggest
3. Everything is vibration

In the Absolute, those three laws are One law, called the GREAT LAW. To our present state of concioussness that One Great Universal Law manifests itself as a triune ray; we perceive it in it's threefold aspect, out concioussness acting as a prism; therefore, as we are studying these laws now, we must consider them as they appear to us in the present.

LIFE, MIND, TRUTH, LOVE, SPIRIT, IS ALL IN ALL. These Five which were explained in the first lesson are the Alpha and OMega, the begginning and end of everything; they are a Law by themselves, the law of life, of mind, of truth, of Love which is the Law of Spirit. They include everything, and is why Jesus , who knew these laws, said, " Love thy God( The Great Priciple) with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself," and when he was asked further, " what about the other commandments?" he answered " All the laws and all the prophets are in those two commandments." The great principle, the Absolute, is all Life, all mind, all truth, all love, all spirit; all there is, is in the Great All, and if we apply that Law, the Law of life, of mind, of truth and of love, to all problems of our daily life, we work out, without noticing it, all the perfection we can ever aspire to, we build up the Pyramid of our own life and reach the Point of Spirit, and we do not notice how it happens, because it is the Great Principle Itself Who is working to that end through us. It is Its work as much as ours. All we have to do is to be concious, open channels for that.

THE SAME LAW GOVERNS ALWAYS EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE. The wonderful symplicity of that one Universal Law is that there is but ONE LAW which underlies all other laws, operates on all planes, and expresses itself through everything, always in the same way. The formation of the electron, of the atom, of the body, of our planet, of this world, of the Universe, are all based ON THAT ONE LAW. Everywhere is seen the operation of that Law, which is also called the Law of ANalogy, " AS IT IS IN THE HIGHEST PLANE SO IT IS ON THE LOWEST." That is, that one pattern is expressed through millions of aspects and yet is always One. For instance, let us take the sphere. Vapors are made up of tiny speres of water. A dewdrop is a sphere, and so are the particles of mercury or the little red and white corpuscules in our blood. A soap bubble is a sphere, our Earth also, and all other planets, the sun, the stars, and the worlds. Why? Because the Great Law says that everything which wants to persevere in exsistence must take the form of a shere, which is a body in which all parts are in perfect relation to one another and also to it's center, and which therefore is so perfectly balanced that it can offer the maximum resistance to all kinds of outside disintegrating influences. Anothe example: All vibrations emanate from a given point in all directions in waves, forming continually increasing sheres. A stone thrown in the water starts spherical ********y waves, which, where they touch the surface of the water, appear as circles, enlarging until they reach the shore of that body of water. It is the same with all other vibrations, sound, light, Hertzian waves, magnetic waves, also thoughts and Spiritual vibrations, all this again because of the Great Law, which decrees that all vibrations must normally proceed in waves, forming continually increasing spheres which are kept in that condition by the law of Attraction perpetually operating through those vibrations. That Law is is so infinite, so universal, that in our present mental development we can only begin to perceive its numberless manifestations. That Law is often also called the Great Law. The knowledge of that Law enables one to calculate with mathematical precision even things the nature of which is as yet unknown to us. Geometry, mathematics, all exact sciences , have the Great Law as foundation of their individual lawsa. For instance, three times three makes nine, and three million times three million makes also nine plus as many zeroes in the two numbers. Why is it so? Because of the Great Law expressing itself through mathematic laws. Those who study zoology also discover very soon the various manifistations of the Great Law. There are so called wild animals, lions, tigers, panthers and so forth, Their coats are of certain colors, arranged in certain designs, which are expressing their qualities. The same characteristics are found among birds of prey, eagles, hawks, owls, etc. as these occupy amongst birds the corresponding place to that occupied by wild animals among the beasts. It is the same among fishes, insects, mushrooms, trees, plants and minerals. The same distinguishing color schemes, the same combinations, throughout the whole round of Nature. Take the rainbow, that, that wonderful bridge, shining with the six colors of the spectrum and connecting Heaven with Earth. It's irredescence, produced by the reflection of light, is found on the soap bubble, on oil coated water, in the diamond, also in the opal, that stone both precious and mysterious; it is displayed on the wings of certain butterflies, on different insects, on birds, and even in the hair os a human being, where there is a certain iridescence. Why? Again because of the Great Law. Throughout the whole cycle of creation are everywhere seen these wonderful expressions of the Great Law. Infinite are the aspects through which it continually manifests itself. There is the glorius sunset, wonderful colors in the sky. But the suns rays have no color, they are white; the clouds have no color, they are also white; the air has no color, it is transparent; yet taken together in a certain combination, they all make a wonderful sunset. It is the relationship of the different lights to one another, shades and lights, white rays broken up in different rays, interpeneting and combining one with another colorless elelments, yet producing the most wonderful colors. All this is the result of that one Great Law.

ALL IS VIBRATION. This is the third and last of these Absolute, Immutable Laws. Is it possible that Vibrations will be eternal? They will be, as they always have been. Even Spirit itself communicates through vibrations. Maybe some day they will be called by another name, but it is not the name which is so important, it is the nature of the thing itself. THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS BUT VIBRATION. When we speak the sound is conveyed through vibrations; through vibrations do we also see, smell, taste and touch. Everything is done through vibration. Sound is vibration, light is vibration, so are the emanations of radium, wireless telegraphy, telephony, all use vibrations as agents. Thoughts are also vibrations; so is Lye, everything is vibrating; vibrations are penetrating all planes, and therefore even in the absolute everything is vibration. There are different rates of vibrations, infinite varieties of them , some so high, so subtle, that of them we cannot have any concept just now. ALL IS ETERNAL VIBRATION BECAUSE VIBRATION IS LIFE ITSELF, AND LIFE IS ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF THE ABSOLUTE, THE GREAT PRINCIPLE. The operation of this law is explained in detail in the second, fourth, sixth, and seventh lessons

THE FOUR LAWS OF THE RELATIVE

1. THE LAW OF POLARITY
2. THE LAW OF RYTHM
3. THE LAW OF GENDER
4. THE LAW OF CAUSE AND EFFECT

THE LAW OF POLARITY: EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD IN THE PRESENT STATE OF HUMAN CONCIOUSNESS APPEARS TO HAVE TWO POLES< THE POSITIVE AND THE NEGATIVE POLES- GOOD AND EVIL, HEAVEN AND HELL, LIFE AND DEATH, LIGHT AND DARKNESS, DAY AND NIGHT, WHITE AND BLACK, NORTH AND SOUTH, PEACE AND WAR, YES AND NO, POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE ETC.

Everywhere, no matter where we turn, there is that law of Polarity or Duality. It is the law of pairs of Opposites. Any opposites, even men and women, come under that law. It is a very important law, which we think we cannot master, to which we must submit, as it has taken possession not only of the physical body but also of the mental plane. In the most ancient religions, the Law of Duality or Polarity is manifested, prevalent. THere are the Days and Nights of Brahma , the Ansolute,--- Manavantaras and Pralayas, periods of activities and periods of rest, periods of manifestation and periods of non manifestation, periods of being and periods of non-being. It is beleived to be an immutable law, a law of absolute, but that is not correct. In one of the sacred books of the Hindus, in the Bagavid-Gita, Krishna, the One Who knew, when speaking about the absolute, about Divinity, said that GOD IS ABOVE THE PAIRS OF OPPOSITES, that means, ABOVE THE LAW OF DUALITY OR POLARITY. Yet religious, phlosophical and sometimes scientific teachings are based on the Law of Duality. As long as the law of Duality, or Polarity, will be accepted as an immutable law, it will keep the world enslaved. Peace and Harmony will remain but a beutiful dream, because that law means a continual warfare between the two principles, the positive and the negative- and there is the question, which one of them will win? One will for a time, and under those conditions, Harmony can never be attained. WHen opposites are coming together they emphasize each other's opposition. It is only like which attracts like, and thus become one whole, but there is no possible unity between two opposites.

.

[Ken]

It is one of the most subtle and powerful laws on earth, that law of Polarity, but it is not an eternal law, despite the assertions of some of the oldest religions and greates philosophies. Humanity is hypnotized by it, and as long as human beings will submit tto that law, it will operate and they will always be swinging between life and death, good and evil, peace and war, and so forth. If we analyze that law from the point of view of Science, we find it is not a true law. We say there is light and there is darkness, yet that iis not a correct statement. THER IS ONLY LIGHT. Darkness is but a suppositional absence of light. There is no such thing as real darkness, because light vibrations penetrate everywhere. We think that light is only what we see. Yet we percieve only the range of rays from red to violet- that is, the six colors of the Spectrum. There are alos rays below read and beyond violet which we do not see, and those invisible rays are the most powerful. Light visible and invisible is everywhere, therefore there cannot be, THERE IS NO DARKNESS. THere are only degrees and different kinds of light. ALL, IS LIGHT. Even that seemingly utter darkness and void of inter-stelier space is penetrated by vibrations, invisible to the human eye, of the Absolute Light, which is Attraction of Love. The same with good and evil. There is no absolutel evil. There are only conditions of relativity, of good. There is the ultimate good, and there is the very first starting point of good, and naturally there is all the scale to develop from that point to the infinite. It is obvious that if a point and the infinite are placed together, the contrast is so great that they appear to be opposites. Yet such a comparison is not right, as there is all the infinite number of links between them, each successive link being part of that endless chain or cirle which has no beginning nor end. This scientific fact cannot be ignored. GOOG, taken from the scientific point of view, IS EVERYWHERE, OMNIPRESENT. There are degrees of good, that is all, but no evil. Evil is but a suppositional absence of good, therefore non-existing, as good is all-pervading. The same is found to be true with every other pair of opposites which one begins to analyze. Soon the fact is discovered that it is only the positive which has a real existence. The Earth has two poles. One is called North and the other the South pole. The South pole is a high mountain , the North pole is a cavity; but we call them North and South poles because we imagine that there is a top and there is a bottom. If we change our postition, then really the North pole would be below and the South pole above. One must try to visualise those things also from the oint of view of the Absolute and not only from that of the relative. Scientifically speaking, there is no East or West, as a definite location, it is but a direction, pointed out by the magnetic needle, relative to the oint at which one will be taking it. When we are in China, the East will be in America, but when we are in Europe, America bcomes west to us and China would then be east. These are only human concepts, created by us to distinguish the Unlimited with our limited perception; to find, to direct ourselves in the Infinite, which has no direction. There is Yes and No. How few people know that as soon as we make a positive statement and say, "Yes, I am going to do that," immediately from somewhere out of the unknown arises the silent opposition " No". And it works so strongly against us, that we usually then have all kinds of difficulties in performing that which we intened to do. Why does it happen? BEcause of the law of polarity. The law of polarity continually interferes with all our human affairs. That iw why we are all the time swinging between good and evil. There is another law still worse which usually works together with the law of Polarity, and that is the so called Rythm."

THose are quotes from "The Science of Being" by Eugene Ferson written in 1920. There is more about the Law of Polarity, but too much too copy out. How to do affirmations properly, why not to make absolute statement without, "God's will be done", and why when someone is supposed to keep a secret is is sometimes very difficult, and they want to tell.

THE LAW OF RYTHM; EVERYTHING IN THE HUMAN WORLD, IN THE PRESENT STATE OF HUMAN CONCIOUSSNESS, INHALES AND EXHALES, GOES UP AND DOWN BY COMPENSATED OSCILATIONS. This law is also called the law of the pendulum, because its operations are in a way similar to the swinging of the pendulum. The pedulum goes up one side, down again, up again, and so on. That law operates in our life on tww planes, the physical and mental, in many different ways. To satrt with, its funcioning on the physical, material plane will be explained. This is especially noticable in waves during a storm on the sea or on any other body of water where waves are brought forth from a storm.



The upward and forward movement of energy carries the wave higher and higher, until it reaches a culminate point. Then comes a moment when, throught its own weight, the wave breaks down and falls, seemingly to continue again its forward and upward movement. That is only in appearance however. In reality, the energy which has raised that wave, after it has reached its highest pint, does not proceed at all the way it seems to. The Law of Rythm entirely reverses its movement. After it has reached the culminate point it suddenly turns within and goes all the way down and backward until it reaches the ****hest point back, the point where it started it's forward movement. And when it had reached the ****hest and lowest point, then it starts to go up again, first under the water as an invisible propulsory force, then appearing on the surface again as a wave, to reach its climax and then start back again under the water. A certain part of its forward movement is done as a wave, bu all its backward movement, and a part of it's forward movement, are done under the water, unseen but still most strongly operating. That is how the waves in the ocean are moving. Every swimmer know that undercurrent; it is sometimes called undertow, which is so dangerous because it sucks in. But how few realise that it is all due to the operation, on the physical plane, of the law of rythm. On the physical plane, so also does the Law of Rythm operate on the mental plane, because in both instances it is governed by the one immutable Great Law. We, who consciously live on these two planes, are under that law of Rythm as long as we have not learned how to rise above it. As are the waves on the ocean so is humanity's Evolution. It goes forward and upwards until it reaches the highest point, then begins the decline into its backward movement. It goes down with ever increasing speed until it reaches its lowest and ****hest point, from which it starts its climb again.

[Ken]

As we see the enery of the ocean moving partly on the surface of the water as a wave, partly under the water as the undertow, so it is with humanity's evolution. The progress of humanity begins to be noticeable only whe the law of Rythm becomes apparent in social life, just like the visible waves on the ocean, the beginning of whose ascending movement remains unseen under the water, until it burts forth as a visible wave. But all the important work was really done, so to say, in the secrecy of the ocean itself. The silent unseen progress is due to the hidden forward movement. When the backward movement starts, at first it is almost unnoticeable, but its speed increases all the time until it has reached the lowest point. There again, as in the ocean, the backwards movement is not so much seen as felt. On the surface things seem to be still moving forward, but there is an undertow, which sucks in and down all those who are not strong enough to resist that backward and downward movement. The backward movement is so strong as to bring humanity almost to the point from which it started, and the little gain still made is due exclusively to the operation of another law called the Law of Evolution, which in some measure counteracts the operation of the Law of Rythm. If we would express in mathematical figures the advancing movement of the human race, and then its receding movement, due to that law, they would read as folows: In the forward movement , Humanity has in its progress advanced, metaphorically speaking, twelve feet, but when the backward movement starts, the law of Rythm throw Humanity back eleven feet, eleven feet and three quarted inches, and the whole progress is thus reduced to one quarter of an inch, That is the reason why Humanity's evolution is so very slow. We have lived countless ages and yet we have progressed comparitively little, all because of that Law of Rythm. IF it were not for that law, which keeps it back, Humanity would long ago have solved it problems of Evolution. That law would have kept humanity on its clutches, if there were not the Law of Evolution, which states ALL VIBRATIONS TEND NATURALY TO RISE UPWARDS IN THE SCALE OF ETERNAL HARMONY. That Law is a ray of hope , sent by love to suffering Humanity to uplift it, to counteract to some extent the operation of the law of Rythm. BEcause of that Law of Evolution we see all vibrations always striving upwards in spite of the law of Rythm working continually against it. It will be explained now how the law of Rythm works in our daily lives. Most of us have had the experience that there are certain days when everything is successful and other days when anything we start is a failure. It is the upward and downward movement of the law of Rythm which produces these differences. It must be remembered that as there are big waves on the ocean, there are also smaller waves. Each big wave is made up of smaller ones, and each little wave is governed by the same law and manifests the same kind of movement, forward and backward, as does the big wave, the Law of Rythm working in identically the same way on all waves. Men of business also know that law, sometimes conciously, most of the time unconciously. There are certain periods in their business when thinggs go well, and periods when things do not go well. Those periods are sometimes long, sometimes short, just like waves in the ocean, and they repeat themselves. In history certain facts also continually repeat themselves and we then say : " History repeats itslef". It is the law of Rythm which is the underlying cause of these forward and backward movements. People who have been successful in their life are those who have mastered that law; that is, they acted as good swimmers on a stormy sea. When the law started to draw them back, they did not lose courage or begin to fear, on the contrary, again like goog swimmers, they courageously did their best not only to remain afloat on the top of the"

MAybe more tomorrow, but there is a story in this section-

Take for instance the story in the bible, the dream of the Pharoah about seven fat cows and the seven lean cows which ate up the seven fat cows and still remained lean. It was the law of Rythm which the Pharoah perceived in a dream and which Joseph was able to interperet correctyl. Joseph was wise. He knew the operation of the law of rythm and how to overcome it and so he said: " During those seven prosperous years gather and bring together all you can.That is, use the upward movement of the law of Rythm to the very limit in every direction, and then when you have received all which can be obtained during those seven prosperous years, when the years of famine, or backward movement, will star, you will have everything ready to meet that backward movement, and being prepared, you will thus overcome the law. We should and can follow the example of the Pharoah. When the forward movement of the Law of Rythm starts, let us use its power in every possible direction.

[Ken]

I post all different kinds of sites. About qi, prophecy, ancient oracles, ancient civilisations, modern technology, etc. even stuff like famous art, or stories. Because the implications of qi go beyond just one aspect of things or another. I don't say that I understand everything in every article I post, or everything in them is exact, but I can tell if the article has the right idea and is on the right track.

An actual explanation of exactly how humans evolved and were created in all aspects. On the internet?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce03.html

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/juliet.htm

Prophecy is not absolute, if righteous beings come and people are one with Great Law, some disasters can be postponed , lessened, or eliminated

http://www.wolflodge.org/sananda/edgar_cayce.htm

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce10.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html

[Ken]

Well, here is what I think. In high level qigong and meditation you cultivate things on a large universal scale, as well as such a tiny scale that it's vibration is beyond the normal perceptions, because all vibrations are one, a force, an intense rushing, always rising in frequency like force IMO, which is of course limited by my human mind and understanding, as well as programming and society, but that's what I feel is real. In Falun gong this force is manifest in the Falun of the buddha school of qigong cultivation. Which IMO I beleive it is a high level absolute manifistation. It is ultimately a world in Falun gong or a paradise I beleive.

So what do you cultivate if not Falun? The Dao school of qigong cultivates with a large emphasis on cultivating high level energy according to the construct of the I ching , and many cultivation exercises are physical representation of the trigrams in nature and the universe. So they cultivate a body according to the principles of the Tao which are not in conflict and are another manifestation of the same GREAT PRINCIPLE, the great one unit, which expresses itself in infinite patterns, so infinite it's beyond comprehension and yet it is all one.

WHat will you cultivate? A god? A diety? A master or Guru? A vague notion of something written about in the past? Why cultivate lies? Or aliens? I don't beleive that works. You're not cultivating any high principles that way. NO, cultivate the Great principle, the Fa, the Tao to enlighten and awaken on your own along a great universal path. It is a universally encompassing path, available to many. It belongs I beleive, to a so called path of gradual enlightenment, (as opposed to sudden enlightenment). Qigong literally means the cultivation of, in general, universal energy.

You choose your path. You create your future. You tell your own fortune, and Falun gong is, I really beleive, a fortunate opportunity to cultivate yourself on your own with the Fa as the teacher. Master Li provides a taste, to awaken the inner love, to start the seed, and cultivate with him and the universe together. Like a parent and child in an unbroken chain from teacher to student as it has always been. Or meaning, it is not the physical vibration of Li Hongzhi's words which have any effect, but the love from his inner being awakens yours because you are both part of the same universal holy spirit. I beleive the holy spirit, and spirit of Dao radiates from Li Hongzhi, that is what I feel, I feel love from him.

I really beleive it is not so differentfrom other ancient qigong and meditation methods ultimately in the end. Different aspects, or different paths up the mountain to the same top.

IMO this is a complicated subject and my mental understanding can never be completly correct.

http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/LoPan.html

http://www.prs.org/gallery-kabblh.htm

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa/en_mpg/Instruction.ram

[Ken]

View like this. Out of every maybe hundred salmon embryos , maybe one will become an adult Salmon. It becomes a game of russian roullette, a gamble.

Those sites I linked with the Kabballah and I ching fortunes reminds me of a wheel with all the fish possibilties. On the wheel you would have many eggs which died before hatching, then there would be some that hatched but died when they still had a food sack on them. THere would be fewer that lived to be able to catch their own food. ANd finally, only one on the whole wheel would live to be an adult Fish. If you spun that wheel it would be unlikely you land on that one fish.

So don't cultivate the Law of Fish lol. Even though the last age of human history, which is the last 2000 years, is the age of Pisces symbolised by a fish. I beleive Jesus is also associated with the fish symbol and obviously that age.It's just too random, being pulled back and forth, by chance, but even fish have some power to alter cause and effect I bet.

I thought of this because at an Aquarium I used to visit, had a fish wheel you could spin and see what your fish destiny was.

I think Falun Dafa cultivates a higher destiny and has the potential to powerfully alter cause and effect. Cause and effect being two sides of one aspect connected through ki and God.

Or maybe I'm getting tired and need to sleep before I start getting too many weird ideas lol

[Ken]

A page that explains the Law of God mathematically-

http://www.atlantis.to/LTA/chapter-nineteen-pg17.htm

http://www.atlantis.to/LTA/19.htm

Perhaps the Law of God can be considered the evoltutionary principle of the universe. Manifest on the surface as a Falun PAttern

http://www.falundafa.org/intro/0-falun.htm

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi2.html
http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/2000/nov/20/scf112000_1.html
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/21/6096.html

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I have some experience with the Falun Gong.. i have visited with a local group, been to 2 seminars, and experimented with their QiGong.. i have read their literature.. I must confess that some of the QiGong sets are effective, though they closely approximate sets from other styles.. but, logical and rational thought cannot abide the inconsistencies and delusions asserted in the literature.. that is my experience and my opinion.

Quite simply, there is only one constant in this universe and it is "change".. Buddha Law, is no more than a cultural interpretation of a much grander cycle of natural rhythms and the "way" things are.. any single individual that asserts they possess the truth, or they, alone, can "save" us is immediately suspect of delusion. Life, existence and the universe are independent of human contrivances, remember, humanity and its mental contrivances are the "new kids" in the universe.. long before humanity emerged from the primal soup the universe existed quite well without Falun Gong, Buddha Law was not even a concept, and the cosmos needed no direction to fulfill it purpose.. it simply did what a cosmos does..

Be well..

[Ken]

IMO Li Hongzhi is a true enlightened teacher. I beleive he meets the correct criteria, and povides a path. There have been true teachers whose mission was to teach spiritual teachings, and teach people to cultivate higher throughout history, Jesus, Lao Tzu, many Buddha's, many others, and this millenium is a very important era in history. Falun gong is not religous. No real teacher's teachings were originally religous. :)

Li Hongzhi has said there are 84,000 schools of qigong. SO 10s of thousands of masters on earth out of 6 billion people is not inconceivable. BUt, it is just that, the higher level is not taught publically usually or made available to just anyone who wants it. Because a system has to survive over time

[Juna]

Epoch Times Commentaries on the Chinese Communist Party - Part 5
The Collusion of Jiang Zemin with the Chinese Communist Party to Persecute Falun Gong

The Epoch Times
Dec 16, 2004

Jiang is unleashing the dog on a child doing the Falun Gong exercises. The Chinese text in the cartoon says "Luo Gan and the 610 Office ¨C malicious dogs killing the innocent." (Epoch Times)
This is the fifth of Nine Commentaries on the CCP.
Foreword

Ms. Zhang Fuzhen, about 38 years old, was an employee of Xianhe Park, Pingdu City, Shandong Province, China. She went to Beijing to appeal for Falun Gong in November 2000 and was later abducted by the authorities. According to inside information, the police tortured and humiliated Zhang Fuzhen, stripping her naked and completely removing her hair. They tied her to a bed with her four limbs stretched out, and she therefore was forced to relieve herself on the bed. Later, the police gave her an injection of some unknown poisonous drug. After the injection, Zhang was in so much pain that she nearly went insane. She struggled in great pain on the bed until she died. The whole process was witnessed by the local officials of the 610 Office (from a May 31, 2004 report on the Minghui website).

Ms. Yang Lirong, 34, was from Beimen Street, Dingzhou City, Baoding Prefecture, Hebei Province. Her family was often harassed and intimidated by the police because she practiced Falun Gong. On February 8, 2002, after a nighttime police raid, Ms. Yang¡¯s husband, a vehicle operator in the Bureau of Standards & Meteorology, was traumatized and afraid of losing his job. He failed to withstand the tremendous pressure the authorities exerted on him. Early the next morning, taking advantage of the time when their elderly parents had stepped out of the house, he strangled his wife. Yang Lirong died tragically, leaving a 10-year-old son behind. Soon afterwards, her husband reported the incident to the authorities, and the police hurried to the scene to conduct an autopsy on Ms. Yang¡¯s body, which was still warm. They took a lot of organs from her body. When they removed her organs, her body was still radiating heat and she bled constantly. A person from the Dingzhou Public Security Bureau said, ¡°This is no autopsy of a corpse; it is vivisection!¡± (from a September 22, 2004 report by Minghui website)



Whole article here:
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-12-16/24972.html

[SimonM]

Well, better late than never I guess.

I said I would critique the rest of that piece of tripe by "master" Li at some point. To be blunt, most of it says absolutely nothing except for "people don't know much but they will if the practice Falun Gong". Pretty empty.

The piece attacks Buddhism for picking apart scripture. This is called "Theology" it is a branch of academic discipline devoted to the study of religious discourse. Theology is practiced in most developed scriptural faiths such as Buddhism, Christianity, Judaeism, Islam, etc. usually by academics within and without of the faith and by the priests/clerics/rabbis/monks of the faith. Within Buddhism this has led to a variety of opinions regarding which scriptural sources best communicate the Dharma.

However the assertation made by Li that all communication of the Dharma in Buddhism comes from scriptural sources is false. Particularly in Ch'an/Zen, non-scriptural Koans play a strong role in the communication of the Dharma. The Ch'an school of Buddhism was founded by a man who was the eventual disciple (ie there were many masters and disciples between Bodidharma and this man) of one of Gautama Siddhartha's students who achieved illumination from the "flower sermon" where Lord Buddha picked a flower, smiled and communicated in that one gesture a special transmission of the Dharma.

Li Hongzhi makes repeated reference to how spacecrafts have traveled to other planets. With the exception of the moon landings and a few non-manned probes this is not true - unless he is referring to aliens. If he is referring to things like the Voyager probe and the Mars rover, what does this have to do with his religion, his metaphysics or his philosophy? Nothing except for psuedo-scientific gee-****zery, not much better than space aliens in my book.

In short Juna you posted a long quote which manages to say nearly nothing and which completely fails to address my questions of:

What is the overall belief structure of the laity of Falun Gong?
How does this connect to the ethical precepts espoused by Falun Gong?

What gives Li Hongzi any authority as anything other than a Qigong teacher?

What makes FG Qigong so much greater than other Qigong, why do you believe that this particular set of breathing exercises communicates the Dharma?

I am not talking about oppression. I am not talking about your struggles with China. I am not going to read your precious master's book, one page of that poorly written drivel was enough thanks. BUT, Juna, you still have not answered those questions which I have asked of you. You STILL have not given me a layperson's view of what Falun Gong is other than the Official Li Hongzi Qigong Fanclub. One man worship-me cults are really boring. If this is all FG is than I don't think I will bother posting again to this thread but if you can provide me with some answers to the many questions I have asked you, perhaps we can forward some constructive discourse on this subject.

[MonkeySlap Too]

China has a long history of religous cults overwhelming the nation and causing severe cvil strife. While the PRC does a great many things I find distasteful, I also see China slowly emerging from the dark ages into a modern nation, and adopting more civil attitudes towards individuals. However, a healthy fear of religous cults is wise for ANY Chinese government, and I haven't seen anything from the Falun Gong group to make me think they should not be looked at cross-eyed.

Although I do agree the PRC is pretty harsh on them. But I'm not sure I'm fit to judge.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Falun Gong, is only attractive after the indoctrination period.. the dogmatic and rhetoric praise of its leader is spewed from the inside out.. common-sense rejects the fanciful musings of deranged disciples, until negated by Falun methods.. then, as verified by the writings and actions of the disciples, common-sense yields to the nonsensical..

As such, i find in favor of clarity, reason and evidence.. Falun's writings exceed thought by which any man can claim sanity..

Be well...

[MonkeySlap Too]

Say that again? No don't, it just makes my head hurt.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
China has a long history of religous cults overwhelming the nation and causing severe cvil strife. While the PRC does a great many things I find distasteful, I also see China slowly emerging from the dark ages into a modern nation, and adopting more civil attitudes towards individuals. However, a healthy fear of religous cults is wise for ANY Chinese government, and I haven't seen anything from the Falun Gong group to make me think they should not be looked at cross-eyed.

Although I do agree the PRC is pretty harsh on them. But I'm not sure I'm fit to judge.

I tend to agree with this entire post. Yes, China is a little harsh on F.G.

Yes they appear to be nothing more than a one-man worship-me cult.

Yes, China is probably justified in being paranoid of those sorts.

That being said I am open-minded enough that I want to give Juna (or any other Falung Gong participant) a chance to prove that there is more to Falung Gong than worshipping "master" Li. So far they have refused this invitation. I am hoping that they will eventually take me up on this. Juna's last attempt - the article by "master" Li - failed in this capacity for the reasons I have previously discussed.

[SimonM]

This text is from an article published by the BBC.

Complete text can be found at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1223317.stm


Aliens

Some of Mr Li's pronouncements are certainly unconventional, some would say just plain strange.

He believes aliens walk the Earth and he has reportedly said he can walk through walls and make himself invisible.

Mr Li says that he is a being from from a higher level who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil.

<snip>

But the Chinese authorities, who outlawed the movement in July 1999 have no such doubts.

Followers are regularly arrested

They have blamed him for the deaths of thousands of followers, saying he has stopped people seeking medical help. Mr Li says he has never done this.

He has also been accused of embezzling donations, an allegation he hotly denies, and stirring up social unrest.

But despite the crackdown on his followers, it is unlikely Mr Li himself will ever be arrested.

Three years ago, Mr Li moved to the United States and he now lives in New York with his wife and daughter.

So this appears to answer the space aliens question. Juna, don't bother replying if you don't want to. I think I have made up my mind.

[Juna]

Originally posted by SimonM


What is the overall belief structure of the laity of Falun Gong?
How does this connect to the ethical precepts espoused by Falun Gong?


My limited understanding:

Falun Gong tells people that the nature of the universe is Truthfullness, Benevolence and Forbearance.

If one wants to cultivate he must follow the nature of the universe. Therefore, a practitioner must begin from being a good person, and gradually assimilate to the nature of the universe.

[Juna]

Irish Times: Arrest of Chinese Vice-PM Sought Over Torture Claims

The Garda Commission has been asked to investigate allegations against the Chinese [Vice] Premier that he has been implicated in torture by Falun Gong practitioners.

Lawyers for five members of the group living in Ireland asked the Garda Commissioner at the weekend to investigate and arrest Mr. Huang Ju, who is on a three-day official visit to Ireland, and discussions were still taking place between the lawyers and the commissioner last night.

Diplomatic immunity does not apply to allegations of torture. It is understood that late last night lawyers representing the Chinese group were also considering other avenues of pursuing their objective of having Mr. Ju [Huang] Arrested.

During his visit, Mr. Ju will meet Government leaders as well as leaders in Irish academia and business. Mr. Ju yesterday met the President, Mrs. McAleese, before meeting the Taoiseach, Mr. Ahern, and other Cabinet ministers at Dublin Castle last night. Issues for discussion between Government representatives and Mr. Ju include: Eu-China relations, including human right issues; international political affairs; trade and investment; education, tourism and culture.

Whole article and picture here:
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/11/19/54710.html

[unkokusai]

Ok, the 15 minutes is up. Time for the falun loonies to go away.

[Mutant]

hey how's that coolaid tasting? ;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

will you shut up already?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I am continually amused when people assert their perspectives as Universal constants.. the universe is not subject to our contrivances.. ie: "Falun (fah-luhn) = Law Wheel ", before the emergence of humans from the primal soup, prior to mankind's musings and contemplations, the universe functioned quite appropriately without the notion of a "law wheel".. Falun Gong is just another in a venerable lineage of attempts to fit a perfectly natural and properly functioning universe into the confines of human thought.. At best, we can observe the natural rhythms and cycles of our environment and our human-ness and seek to harmonize with them.. Laws are only valid within the context in which they are conceived, what we consider as "laws" are only so within the limits of our own abilities to perceive.. It is not inconceivable that our ability to perceive is so limited as to prevent us from sensing vast amounts of the universe which may go unnoticed right in front of us.. but, we only consider what we can sense, discounting other notions.. our entire universe may be one bubble in a pot of boiling water, our senses too limited to see beyond that bubble.. i think Falun fills itself with too much self-importance and too many contrivances.. "chop wood, carry water", and the rest will find its natural place in the harmony of Life.. don't get too caught-up in the notions of "good/bad", they are concepts that vary by situation, culture and consequence.. "do no harm", to the greatest extent possible, cultivate a healthy existence, know that we are ALL linked in this physical existence and Falun is an unnecessary distraction from a simpler more natural existence..

Be well..

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


Falun Dafa tells people that the nature of the universe is Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance. Those are contrived concepts based on human experience and preference.. the nature of the universe is what it is, any further categorization confines it to someone's concepts, which invariably conflicts with someone else's.. the universe is far too infinite and simple to be caught up in a phrase or ideology.. Falun Dafa simply asserts someone's beliefs and contrives situations to persuade others to accept this notion as the "only" way.. there is no "only" way, there are as many ways as there are people to travel them..

"We are traveling to where we have always been, from ignorance to enlightenment.. awareness is the vehicle"..

Be well..

[Juna]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

Falun Dafa simply asserts someone's beliefs and contrives situations to persuade others to accept this notion as the "only" way



Read these articles please:
The main body of the book is composed of 40 vivid cultivation stories presented at various Falun Dafa Experience Sharing Conferences and on other occasions. The editors revised the stories in order to include only the parts relevant to health improvement, in accordance with the topic and the title of this book. However, since health improvement can not be separated from changes of mind nature during cultivation, we purposely kept content in some stories that described improvement in moral character. All the stories represent the situation at the time they were written, which is provided after each story. Of the 40 individuals, 28 of them are currently residing in North America, 5 in Taiwan, 3 in Mainland China, 2 in Australia, and 2 in Europe. The individuals come from a wide range of backgrounds--from a 10-year-old school child to an elderly person over 70, from housewives to highly educated professionals, including engineers and medical doctors. Due to the severe persecution of Falun Gong practitioners by the Chinese government, we did not select many touching stories from China to avoid endangering any practitioners by publicizing their names. The three stories from China included here are already well publicized and are exceptions. The cases are categorized into 11 subgroups according to the characteristics of their illnesses so that the readers can easily locate cases of interest. To facilitate the reader's understanding, a connection between modern medicine and the disease-healing effects obtained from practicing Falun Dafa is discussed in the introduction. A summary of a health survey conducted among more than 10,000 practitioners in Beijing by medical professionals and experts is included to further validate the effect of Falun Dafa cultivation observed by individuals.

Our special thanks should go to those who provided their vivid cultivation stories. Without them this book could not have been produced.

We are grateful to the contributing editors who have helped to review, edit, and proofread our manuscripts. They include:

Zongyi Hu, M.D.

Joshua Li, M.D., Ph.D.

Frank Ye, Ph.D.

Eric Allen.

We are grateful to the many other friends and fellow practitioners who have encouraged and helped us during the process of preparing this volume.

We also wish to express our appreciation to Amy Xia, who designed the cover for the book.

Here please:
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/health_preface.html

[SimonM]

Anecdotal "evidence" has no actual value.

That being said, Falun Gong is still a one-man worship-me cult. No number of deluded MD's is going to change that.


I do know some pretty stupid MD's, they are not all geniuses.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Anyone who claims an exclusive hand on the truth frightens me. Maybe it's because I grew up in a post-tyrannic society where information seeks to be free - but when I look at the most successful Axial age religions and thier 'modern' antecedants like Fa Lun Da Fa, I just shake my head and wonder 'WHY' - why do people feel such a desperate need to feel special, superior to non-beleivers, and desperate to exclude the outsider - and you call them on the latter, you find yourself accussed of it.

Somehow I think these things produce the opposite of the effect promised...

Perhaps the greatest thing given to us by the 500 years of wars Europe fought to seperate religion and politics is the concept that spirituality should be a personal choice, and not a state-sponsored means of controlling the body politic.

You guys scare me, man. I sympathize with having to deal with a tyrannic communist party, but I sympathize with their justifiable fear of religous movements as well. Just look at Chinese history...

[Juna]

Falun Dafa Cultivation¡¯s Supernormal Alterations to Gene Expression (FSC-002)

Lili Feng, M.D.Professor of Immunology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA

Preface
The influence of the mind (also referred to as ¡°spirit¡± or ¡°consciousness¡±) on the physical body is an open field in modern medicine. Recently, more and more pieces of evidence have demonstrated that the mind can alter the physical body in various ways, particularly through the endocrine and immune systems. However, there have been no efforts to try to understand how the mind alters gene expression. Three reasons account for this: First, modern science has difficulty defining and quantifying the mind; secondly, modern science solely focuses on the biological aspects of human body; thirdly, there hasn¡¯t been a group of people with the same spiritual pursuits. Recently, the accomplishments of the human genome project and the widespread application of DNA micron-array techniques have made research in this field possible . Practitioners of Falun Dafa cultivation would make suitable subjects for such research. Their cultivation principles of assimilating into ¡°Zhen-Shan-Ren¡± (Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance) and their practicing ¡°no second cultivation way¡± are the main reasons for us to choose this group of people as our first choice of subjects for the study. We obtained some results that differed noticeably from normal values when we were studying the gene expression in the neutrophils of Dafa practitioners, including: improved immune systems, decreased cellular metabolic rates, and decreased expression of the protein degradation systems. Most interestingly, some of these changes are ¡°two-way¡± alterations, which are beneficial for both sides. In order to further delineate the alteration mechanisms, we will first talk a little bit about the development and limitations of modern science, then further explain the results of our experiment.

This is an article from The First Future Science and Culture Congress, whole article here:
http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2002/5/20/194.html

[bodhitree]

not going to touch this question with a 10 foot pole

[SimonM]

So this is why KFM was blocked for the better part of yesterday!

My opinions on FLG are a matter of public record, I'm not rehashing this d@mn argument again.

[gungfujosh]

Thank you SimonM -- your previous post (other thread) was very enlightening-(as was this one).

[neilhytholt]

Please vist www.falundafa.org to understand what Falun gong is.

One person's terrorist cult is another person's religion. LOL

[chud]

HU HECKLED ON SOUTH LAWN: 'YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED'
Thu Apr 20 2006 12:10:16 ET

The arrival ceremony for Chinese president Hu Jintao was interrupted by a protester who appealed to President Bush to stop Hu from 'persecuting the Falun Gong,' a banned religious movement in China.

The woman began shouting from the top of a camera stand located directly in front of Hu and Bush.

'President Bush, stop him from killing'... 'Stop persecuting the Falun Gong,' she yelled... She also shouted in Chinese, 'President Hu, your days are numbered, No more time for China's ruling party.'

The incident occured right after Bush urged Hu to allow Chinese to 'speak freely'. The woman, had a temporary pass with a big 'T' on it, also unfurled a yellow 'Falun Gong' banner.

The woman was taken away by uniformed secret service officers.

Bush leaned over and whispered to Hu, 'You're okay.' Hu, who had stopped talking briefly, then resumed speaking.

On China TV: As Hu was speaking when yells of protesters became audible, the screen went black. When the feed came back the screen once again went black when woman was again heard. During CNN International's post-speech commentary, at mention of south lawn heckler, the screen also went black again. The CNN feed returned when the incident ended.

[tug]

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

[Donkwoon]

It looks like some sort of chi gung to me. It reminds me of the Buddha Hands chi gung that I have seen people do.
If they were living next door to you would you have a problem? Probably not. :cool:

[neilhytholt]

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

Everybody knows that China is a dissent crushing government. It's just that we're trying to ignore it and let capitalism take hold so they have more incentive to change their ways, in their time.

So these FG people aren't really helping things any with all their protests, they're just making things harder for themselves. They should just all shut up for about 10 years or so until things change a little over there.

If anybody has ever tried to reason with Chinese people, the very worst thing you can do is make them lose face with protests like this. It's equivalent to slapping them in the face.

[chud]

If they were living next door to you would you have a problem? Probably not. :cool:

Exactly. What the heck is the PRC so afraid of? Let them meditate if they want, they're not hurting anyone...

[neilhytholt]

Exactly. What the heck is the PRC so afraid of? Let them meditate if they want, they're not hurting anyone...

They're afraid of a large group of people following a non-state sanctioned religion, where one person (not a person sanctioned by the state), is in power.

Anyways, they should all just give it a rest. All of this will change as China becomes more and more capitalistic and they worry less about religion.

[chud]

So these FG people aren't really helping things any with all their protests, they're just making things harder for themselves. They should just all shut up for about 10 years or so until things change a little over there.



People have been shutting up for a long time, maybe now is as good a time as any to start speaking out. Sometimes you have to fight for freedom.

[neilhytholt]

People have been shutting up for a long time, maybe now is as good a time as any to start speaking out. Sometimes you have to fight for freedom.

If there is one thing I have learned about the Chinese, arguing and fighting will get you only a very angry and upset Chinese person.

Now money under the table, or threatening to take away the money, now that can actually change the person's opinion. Which is essentially what we're doing with the WTO. Which is why there isn't any point to demonstrations right now.

[Judge Pen]

Anyways, they should all just give it a rest. All of this will change as China becomes more and more capitalistic and they worry less about religion.

You knocked the correct out of the park there.

[chud]

If there is one thing I have learned about the Chinese, arguing and fighting will get you only a very angry and upset Chinese person.

Now money under the table, or threatening to take away the money, now that can actually change the person's opinion. Which is essentially what we're doing with the WTO. Which is why there isn't any point to demonstrations right now.

I dunno, I think we've tap danced around this issue long enough.
Just my two cents.

[The Willow Sword]

http://www.buythecase.net/aisle/108/dry_mixes/?engine=adwords!4455&keyword=%2Aramen+noodles%2A&match_type=


This has my interest really Perked up now.

As always,,TWS

[SimonM]

Exactly. What the heck is the PRC so afraid of? Let them meditate if they want, they're not hurting anyone...

Um... actually... by refusing medical assistance and a few other rather untoward practices the FG often hurt themselves and their families.

However this is not what got them banned.

They got banned because they tried to slowly take over the CCP and then when they got caught they broke China's religious organization laws.

This really is a one-man worship-me cult. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's banned.

[The Willow Sword]

China's religious organization laws.


Hahah yeah that is what they call it. :rolleyes:

[shrub]

Let's not forget what happened at Waco - Raid by federal agents with tanks and deadly weapons resulted in the death of 74 men, women and children of the Davidians.

[BruceSteveRoy]

They're afraid of a large group of people following a non-state sanctioned religion, where one person (not a person sanctioned by the state), is in power.

Anyways, they should all just give it a rest. All of this will change as China becomes more and more capitalistic and they worry less about religion.

i don't personally think capitalism will have as much of an impact on the way the chinese government addresses human rights as people contend. capitalism and communism are merely economic concepts and don't have as much baring on individual rights. the only way i can see capitalism forcing the chinese government to change in this regard is if after they take a major change toward capitalism their treatment of the FG people (or any other dissetning minority) starts hurting their profit margins. Which i doubt it would. just my opinion.

[neilhytholt]

i don't personally think capitalism will have as much of an impact on the way the chinese government addresses human rights as people contend. capitalism and communism are merely economic concepts and don't have as much baring on individual rights. the only way i can see capitalism forcing the chinese government to change in this regard is if after they take a major change toward capitalism their treatment of the FG people (or any other dissetning minority) starts hurting their profit margins. Which i doubt it would. just my opinion.

More money to more people = more education = more views of the industrialized world (TV, media, etc.) = more wanting freedoms = more freedom.

That and the WTO saying they have to do certain things to be a part of it. I could be wrong, but look how far China's come in the last 28 years or so.

[Juna]

the chinese government addresses human rights


There was progress towards reform in some areas, but this failed to have a significant impact on serious and widespread human rights violations perpetrated across the country. Tens of thousands of people continued to be detained or imprisoned in violation of their fundamental human rights and were at high risk of torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death or executed, many after unfair trials. Public protests increased against forcible evictions and land requisition without adequate compensation. China continued to use the global “war on terrorism” to justify its crackdown on the Uighur community in Xinjiang. Freedom of expression and religion continued to be severely restricted in Tibet and other Tibetan areas of China.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng

[Juna]

Um... actually... by refusing medical assistance and a few other rather untoward practices the FG often hurt themselves and their families.


That is ccp's propaganda.

[Juna]

HU HECKLED ON SOUTH LAWN: 'YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED'
Thu Apr 20 2006 12:10:16 ET

The arrival ceremony for Chinese president Hu Jintao was interrupted by a protester who appealed to President Bush to stop Hu from 'persecuting the Falun Gong,' a banned religious movement in China.



Statement by The Epoch Times On the Events at the White House
The Epoch Times Apr 21, 2006


A woman (C) demands that Chinese Communist Chairman Hu Jintao end the persecution of Falun Gong during a ceremony on the South Lawn off the White House on April 20, 2006 in Washington, DC. (Roger L. Wollenberg-Pool/Getty Images)This morning at the welcoming ceremony for Chinese Communist Party leader Hu Jintao on the south lawn of the White House, Dr. Wenyi Wang stood up in the press corps and shouted slogans.

Dr. Wang attended this event on Epoch Times press credentials. However, her actions this morning were her own. In protesting in this manner, she did not act on behalf of The Epoch Times . Moreover, she had not consulted any of her Epoch Times colleagues beforehand about her staging this protest. If The Epoch Times had known of her intention to use this event to protest, we would have seen that her press credentials were withdrawn.

The Epoch Times apologizes to President Bush and the White House for Dr. Wang's actions.

However, while The Epoch Times does not approve of the methods used by Dr. Wang, we think the world does need to understand what might have moved a respected medical professional such as Dr. Wang to take such unconventional actions.

The Epoch Times has reported that, based on the statements of doctors performing organ transplants in China, in the next eleven days thousands of Falun Gong practitioners will be slaughtered in China in a particularly horrifying manner: through having their organs harvested while they are still living. The only hope for saving the lives of these practitioners lies in bringing sufficient pressure to bear on the Chinese regime.

The Epoch Times broke the story on March 9 of how about 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners had been held in a civil defense facility next door to a hospital complex in the Sujiatun District of Shenyang City, Liaoning Province in northeastern China. According to sources, thousands of these practitioners had been killed through having their organs harvested while they were alive.

Our original sources for this story were two brave individuals who had fled China: a Chinese journalist who had worked for a Japanese TV station covering northeastern China, and the former wife of a surgeon who had performed organ harvesting at Sujiatun .

Subsequent investigations, made by calling doctors and staff at hospitals performing organ transplants revealed that what had happened at Sujiatun was not an aberration. Rather, it was the tip of the iceberg.

Doctors at hospitals in eight different provinces and cities readily volunteered in phone interviews in which investigators posed as patients needing organs that:

the organs were of the highest quality because they came from living human beings;
an organ could be procured within a day or two of a patient presenting him or herself at the hospital; and
the organs were being taken from Falun Gong practitioners.
Tapes of these conversations are available for listening.

Upon The Epoch Times publishing the news of this organ harvesting, we learned that the Chinese regime quickly transferred the remaining practitioners out of the facility at Sujiatun and devised a cover-up.

The crimes against humanity first uncovered at Sujiatun are only the latest form taken by the persecution of Falun Gong in China. Dr. Wang clearly understands this is a desperate situation. She took matters in her own hands today to try to let the world know what is happening. Transplant doctors in China are now telling patients that they had better come in right away. If they do so before "May 1," then they can have a transplant operation immediately because organs at this moment are in plentiful supply. After that date, these doctors say, having a transplant done will be difficult.

The meaning of these statements is clear: The Chinese regime is killing the practitioners that had previously been held as a living organ bank, in order to remove any witnesses to this entire horrible enterprise.

Dr. Wang has played a very important role in developing this story. She has been able to use her medical expertise to help evaluate the reports of organ harvesting. And she has worked closely with our two original sources.

At the same time, as a physician, Dr. Wang has felt acutely the nightmare of doctors violating their trust in this horrifying way.

The crimes against humanity first uncovered at Sujiatun are only the latest form taken by the persecution of Falun Gong in China. That persecution has seen all of the might of a giant totalitarian regime used to try to "eradicate" a peaceful meditation practice that believes in following the principles of "truthfulness-compassion-tolerance."

This is a desperate situation. "Peter," the journalist from China who first told us of what was happening Sujiatun, understands this. At a press conference today, he said, "I am willing to use my life, if that is the price I have to pay to expose this crime."

Dr. Wang also clearly understands this is a desperate situation. She took matters in her own hands today to try to let the world know what is happening.

The clock is ticking. Let's act now and save lives.


I think we can understand the reasons behind the event.

[David Jamieson]

When one mixes a small amount of truth with a batch of fallicious lies, it becomes difficult to analyze what the intent and the reality is.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

We are dealing with two basic themes with this issue.. one, the repressive Chinese government, and.. two, a cultish psuedo-religion seeking validity from QiGong practices.. neither of these themes serve the evolution of a harmonious society.. both should be scrutinized and evaluated as to their benefit to the human condition..

As much as i know there will be repercussions for my next comment, i feel compelled to say... the Chinese people, like the German Jews of the Third Reich, have a responsibility to themselves to take a stand.. the German Jews didn't and the Chinese people haven't.. Both have suffered the consequences.. The desire for freedom and human rights must be expressed through a willingness to pay the price.. freedom is not free.. Those that would do nothing in their own defense but rather depend on others to pay for their freedom will not respect the true value of it..

Before we are religious, before we are cultural, before we develop a philosophy, we are first a single human family.. we are born into this existence free of prejudices and biases.. at some point we are manipulated into a belief system, a governmental system, a system of cultural values.. systems that contend with other systems.. it is when we value the system(s) over our original "family", the Human Family, that we lose our spiritual virginity..

From my experience and research of the Falun Gong System it has no long-term redeemable value that serves the "human Family", it is a cult designed around a mad-man's beliefs.. From my experience with the Chinese Government it has no long-term benefit for civilization.. that is not an indictment of the Chinese people except that they lack the inspiration, character and will to confront the government that represses them.. an situation that US citizens are dangerously near...

Be well..

[David Jamieson]

*snip*

From my experience with the Chinese Government it has no long-term benefit for civilization.. that is not an indictment of the Chinese people except that they lack the inspiration, character and will to confront the government that represses them.. an situation that US citizens are dangerously near...

Be well..

near? us citizens are totally in the soup in this comparison.

also remember, the first one to stand up is usually the first one to get his head blown off. This is what dissuades others.

would you give your life for the political ideology of another?

[GLW]

There were a couple of items that got the Chinese govt. up in arms about the Falun Gong people.

The first was how they were spreading in the smaller areas in China. What was being done was the local Falun Gong main person would get to know people like the local officials, police chief, party members, etc... and then get them involved in Falun gong or at least favorable to it.

This went on for a time back in the 90's.

Now, if you have a hierarchical set up as China does, you do not want any group starting at the bottom and working its way up your hierarchy gaining support. It is politically dangerous.

Then, you had the big demonstration in Tiananmen square (no, not the one in 1989 but the one that Falun Gong did). They were denied a permit to hold the gathering but it happened anyway.

Now, think about what would happen in the US if over 10,000 people converged in DC for a demonstration. (It HAS happened as far back as a during the Depression when the ex-military from WWI converged wanting the money they were promised and needed but had never received).

In the US, what has happened is that in the Depression era, MacArthur rode in with troops and killed and wounded people - in fact, that was the ONLY time MacArthur was known to have actually been in a battle - In the 1960's and other times, when there was not a permit, the riot squad came in... In 1968 in Chicago...the riots...etc...

In China, they did not do anything....then. The took photos and names...and then arrested the leaders later where and when it would not blow up into a big violent scene.

On one hand, you could say that they were trying to do a cover up. On the other, you could also say that they were trying to avoid a demonstration ending up being a melee and having people killed.

Either way...what happened happened.

The other stories about medical attention, using position in Falun Gong to get things (position, money, sex...) have been levelled. The Falun people vehemently deny these things. The PRC says little but their press reports things.

Which side is right? Well, i would say neither since both have vested interests in getting others to believe their point of view. Probably SOME of what each says is true.

As for the US, we would NOT be saying anything about them if we were not looking for a way to manipulate China. We would also be saying much the same thing if the Falun Gong folks were as big and beginning to impede on the Christian Rights area.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

David: If the "political ideology of another" is consistent with an improved human condition, if the human condition would deterioriate without my assistance AND if the other is willing to take a stand as well... yes, i would..

also remember, the first one to stand up is usually the first one to get his head blown off.Someone has to do it, there ARE some ideals worth fighting for.. I would rather give my life for a good cause than cower as good people die by a bad cause..

Be well..

[neilhytholt]

Greetings..

David: If the "political ideology of another" is consistent with an improved human condition, if the human condition would deterioriate without my assistance AND if the other is willing to take a stand as well... yes, i would..
Someone has to do it, there ARE some ideals worth fighting for.. I would rather give my life for a good cause than cower as good people die by a bad cause..

Be well..

This organ thing, is there any verification of it? It seems like the WTO could yank their membership for something like that.

[neilhytholt]

Here are some links. It sounds based upon the evidence that China does take organs from still living or partially dead people, and since Falun Gong members have been sentenced to death, it sounds like they could be taking organs from them.

I don't think taking organs from anyone living is good, and frankly it is a little apalling that they let it slide just because they don't think it is happening on a 'mass scale'.

http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/110501.php
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046-7583,00.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060415/pl_afp/uschinasectpolitics_060415004729
http://news.eastday.com/eastday/news/node37955/node37957/node37979/node66408/userobject1ai1155698.html

[cjiang]

never go extreme.
freedom it not what made human evolved.
if you really train kungfu, you should have realized the importance of inner balance and using your brain.
nothing can be proved to be true and effective.
dictatorship or democracy are just like different kind of kungfu. you cannot really say which one is more powerful, it depends on who is using which.

[Juna]

.you had the big demonstration in Tiananmen square

That is no the fact.

[Juna]

Which side is right? Well, i would say neither since both have vested interests in getting others to believe their point of view. Probably SOME of what each says is true.
.

I 'd like to remind readers here, the history of ccp is full of lies and violence. On the other hand Falun Gong believes in Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance.

[Juna]

II. Both Jiang Zemin and the CCP Equally Fear “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance”

The history of the international communist movement was written with the blood of hundreds of millions of people. Nearly every communist country went through a process similar to the counter-revolutionary suppression by Stalin in the former Soviet Union. Millions or even tens of millions of innocent people were slaughtered. In the 1990s, the former Soviet Union dissolved and Eastern Europe went through drastic changes. The Communist Bloc lost more than half of its territory overnight. The CCP learned from this lesson and realized that stopping suppression and allowing the right to free speech was the equivalent to seeking its own doom. If people were allowed to express themselves freely, how could the CCP cover up its bloody atrocities? How could it justify its deceptive ideology? If suppression was stopped and people were free of threats and fears, wouldn’t they dare to choose a lifestyle and a belief other than communism? Then, how would the Communist Party maintain the social basis essential to its survival?

The CCP remains essentially the same regardless of any surface changes it might have made. After the “June 4” massacre, Jiang Zemin cried out to “eliminate any unstable factors in their embryonic stage.” Extremely afraid, he concluded that he would never give up lying to the public, and he would continue to suppress the people until they were completely immobilized.

During this period Falun Gong was introduced in China. At first, Falun Gong was regarded by many as a type of qigong [8] with an especially powerful ability to keep people healthy and fit. Later, people gradually realized the essence of Falun Gong was not its five easy exercises. Instead, Falun Gong’s essence is to teach people to become better based upon the principles of "Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance."

Falun Gong Teaches “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance;” the Communist Party Brews “Falsehood, Hatred and Struggle”

Falun Gong promotes “Truthfulness,” including only telling the truth and doing truthful things. The CCP relies on lies to brainwash people. If everyone began telling the truth, the public would learn that the CCP grew by ingratiating itself with the Soviet Union, murdering, kidnapping, taking flight when convenient, planting opium, usurping the cause of fighting against the Japanese invasion, and so on. The CCP once claimed, “Nothing significant can be accomplished without lying.” After the CCP seized power, it initiated successive political movements and incurred countless bloody debts. Promoting truthfulness would thus spell certain doom to the CCP.

Falun Gong promotes “Compassion,” including considering others first and being kind to others in all circumstances. The CCP has always advocated “brutal struggle and merciless crackdown.” The CCP's model hero, Lei Feng, once said, “We should treat our enemies mercilessly, being as cold as the severe winter.” Actually, the CCP not only treated their enemies like that, they haven’t treated their own members any better. The founders of the Communist Party, the supreme commanders and marshals, and even a chairman of the country were all mercilessly interrogated, brutally beaten and miserably tortured by their own party. The slaughter of the so-called “class enemies” was so brutal it could make one’s hair stand on end. If “compassion” had dominated society, the mass movements based upon “vice,” as initiated by the Communist Party, would have never been able to take place.
The Communist Manifesto states “the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle.” This represents the Communist Party's concept of history and the world. Falun Gong, promotes searching inside oneself for one’s own shortcomings in the face of conflict. This introspective and self-restrained outlook is the complete opposite of the CCP’s philosophy of struggle and attack.

Struggle has been the major means for the Communist Party to gain political power and survive. The Communist Party periodically initiated political movements to suppress certain groups of people in order to recharge itself and “revive its revolutionary fighting spirit." The process was repeated with violence and lies, in order to strengthen and renew people’s fear, so as to maintain its power.

From the ideological point of view, the philosophy that the Communist Party has relied on for its survival is completely opposite to what Falun Gong teaches.

People with Righteous Beliefs Are Fearless, While the CCP Relies on People’s Fear to Maintain Its Political Power

People who understand the truth are fearless. Christianity was persecuted for nearly 300 years. Numerous Christians were beheaded, burned to death or drowned, or even fed to lions, but the Christians did not give up their belief. When Buddhism experienced the Dharma tribulation in history, Buddhists also behaved faithfully in a similar manner.

The atheists’ propaganda aims to make people believe there is no heaven or hell and no karmic retribution, so that people would no longer be restrained by their conscience. Instead, they would focus on wealth and comfort as being the reality of this world. The weaknesses in human nature can then be manipulated, and intimidation and temptation can be used to control people fully. However, those with strong belief are able to see through life and death. The illusions of the secular world do not move them. They take the temptations of the earthly world and the threats to their lives lightly, thus rendering the Communist Party feeble in any efforts to manipulate them.

The High Moral Standards of Falun Gong Embarrass the CCP

After the “June 4” massacre in 1989, the ideology of the CCP has gone completely bankrupt. In August 1991, the Communist Party of the former Soviet Union collapsed, followed by drastic changes in Eastern Europe. This brought enormous fear and pressure to the CCP. The legitimacy of its rule and the prospect of its survival faced unprecedented challenges as it encountered great crises both at home and abroad. At that time, the CCP was no longer able to unite its members with its original doctrines of Marxism, Leninism and Maoism. Instead, it turned to total corruption in exchange for Party members’ loyalty. In other words, whoever followed the Party would be allowed to gain personal benefits through corruption and embezzlement, an advantage impossible to non-party members. Especially after Deng Xiaoping’s tour of southern China in 1992 [6], government officials’ profiteering and corruption in real estate and the stock market have run wild in China. Illegal second wives and smuggling are everywhere. Pornography, gambling and drugs have become rampant all over China. Although it may not be fair to say that there was not a single good person in the Communist Party, the general public has long ago lost confidence in the Party’s anti-corruption efforts, and holds that more than half of the middle or high ranking government officials are involved in corruption.

At the same time, the high moral standards demonstrated by Falun Gong practitioners, who practice “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance,” resonated with kindness in the hearts of the public. More than one hundred million people were attracted to Falun Gong and started the practice. Falun Gong is a mirror of righteousness which by its very nature reveals all the unrighteousness of the CCP.




Second part.

[Juna]

The CCP Was Extremely Jealous of the Way Falun Gong Was Spread and Managed

The unique way Falun Gong propagates is person to person and heart to heart. Falun Gong has a loose management structure, and anyone can come and go freely as he wishes. It is very different from the strict organization of the CCP. Despite the strict organization, the political study and group activities conducted weekly or more frequently in the CCP branches existed only in form. Few Party members agreed with the Party ideology. On the contrary, Falun Gong practitioners conscientiously followed the principles of “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance.” Because of the powerful effect of Falun Gong on improving people’s mental and physical health, the number of people who practiced Falun Gong grew exponentially. Practitioners voluntarily studied Mr. Li Hongzhi’s series of books and promoted Falun Gong at their own expense. In a short seven years time, the number of Falun Gong practitioners grew from none to 100 million. When they practiced the exercises in the morning, Falun Gong exercise music could be heard in almost every park in China.

The Communist Party said that Falun Gong “competes” for the masses with the CCP and that it was a “religion.” In fact, what Falun Gong brings to people is a culture and a way of life. It is an ancestral culture and the root of Chinese traditions, which the Chinese people had lost long ago. Jiang Zemin and the Communist Party feared Falun Gong, because once this traditional morality was accepted by the public, nothing could prevent it from spreading rapidly. The Chinese traditional beliefs have been forcibly shut off and tampered with by the Communist Party for decades. It would be the choice of history to return to tradition. It would be the path of return chosen by the vast majority of people after tribulations and misery. When given such a choice, people would certainly distinguish between right and wrong and are likely to leave wickedness behind. This would certainly be a fundamental denial and abandonment of what the Communist Party has promoted. This was like striking at the mortal weakness of the CCP. When the number of people who practiced Falun Gong exceeded that of the Communist Party members, you could imagine the deep fear and jealousy of the CCP.

In China, the CCP exerts total control over every part of society. In the countryside, there are Communist Party branches in every single village. In urban areas, branch offices of the CCP are found in every administrative office in the neighborhoods. In the army, government and enterprises, the Party branches reach to the very roots. Absolute monopoly and exclusive manipulation are essential measures that the CCP takes to maintain its regime. The Chinese Constitution euphemistically termed this phenomenon as “persisting in the leadership of the Party.” Falun Gong practitioners, on the other hand, were obviously more inclined to take "Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance” as their principles. The CCP saw this as nothing short of denying the leadership of the Party, which was absolutely unacceptable to the Party.

The Communist Party Considers Falun Gong’s Theism a Threat to the Legitimacy of the Communist Regime

A true theistic belief is bound to be a significant challenge to the Communist Party. Because the legitimacy of the Communist regime was based upon the so-called “dialectical materialism” and the wish to build a “heaven on earth,” it could only rely on the leadership of the “vanguard in the world,” namely, the Communist Party. Meanwhile, the practice of atheism enabled the Communist Party to interpret freely what is virtuous and what is good or bad. As a result, there has been virtually no morality or distinction between good or bad to speak of. All that people have to remember is that the Party is always “great, glorious and correct.”

However, theism gives people an unchanging standard of good and bad. Falun Gong practitioners evaluate right or wrong based on “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance.” This obviously hinders the CCP’s consistent efforts to “unify people’s thinking.”

Continuing with this analysis, there are still many other reasons. However, any one of the above five reasons is fatal to the CCP. Actually, Jiang Zemin suppresses Falun Gong for the same reasons. Jiang Zemin started his career by lying about his past, so of course he is afraid of the “truth.” Through suppressing people, he quickly became successful and powerful, so of course he dislikes “compassion.” He maintained his power through political struggles inside the Party, so of course he dislikes “tolerance.”

From a small incident we can tell how extremely petty and jealous Jiang Zemin is. The Museum of Hemudu Cultural Ruins [4] in Yuyao County (now reclassified as a City), Zhejiang Province is a major historical and cultural site under state conservation. Originally, it was Qiao Shi [5] who wrote the signature inscription for the Museum of Hemudu Cultural Ruins. In September 1992, Jiang Zemin saw Qiao Shi’s inscription when he visited the museum and his face turned dark and gloomy. The accompanying personnel were very nervous, as they knew that Jiang could not stand Qiao Shi and that Jiang liked to show off so much that he would write an inscription wherever he went, even when he went to visit the traffic police division of the Public Security Bureau in Jinan City and the Zhengzhou City’s Retired Engineers Association. The museum staff dared not slight the petty Jiang Zemin. Consequently, in May 1993, under the excuse of renovation, the museum replaced Qiao Shi’s inscription with one of Jiang’s before the re-opening.

Mao Zedong is said to have “four volumes of profound and powerful writing,” whereas the Selected Works of Deng Xiaoping has a “cat theory” [9] with a flavor of practicality. Jiang Zemin exhausted his brain but could only come up with three sentences, yet he claimed to have come up with “Three Represents.” It was published into a book and promoted by the CCP through level after level of government organizations, yet it only sold because people were forced to buy it. Nevertheless, the Party members still didn’t respect Jiang Zemin even a little bit. They spread gossip about his affair with a singer, the embarrassing episodes of his singing “O Sole Mio” when he traveled abroad, and combing his hair in front of the King of Spain. When the founder of Falun Gong, Mr. Li Hongzhi, who was born an ordinary civilian, gave a lecture, the lecture hall would be filled with professors, experts and Chinese students studying abroad. Many people with doctorate or masters degrees flew thousands of miles to listen to his lectures. When Mr. Li lectured eloquently on the stage for several hours, he did it without using any notes. Afterwards, the lecture could be transcribed on paper and made into a book to be published. All these things were unbearable to Jiang Zemin, who is vain, jealous and petty.

Jiang Zemin lives an extremely lavish, lustful and corrupt life. He spent 900 million yuan (over $US 110 million) to buy a luxurious plane for his use. Jiang often drew money from public funds, by the tens of billions, for his son to do business. He used nepotism to promote his relatives and minions to high-ranking posts above the ministerial level, and he resorted to desperate and extreme measures in covering up for his cronies’ corruption and crimes. For all these reasons, Jiang is afraid of Falun Gong’s moral authority, and even more is he afraid that the topics of heaven, hell, and the principle of good and bad being rewarded accordingly, as addressed by Falun Gong, are indeed real.

Although Jiang held the greatest power in the CCP in his hands, since he lacked political achievement and talent, he often worried that he would be forced out of the power amidst the CCP’s ruthless power struggles. He is very sensitive about his status as the “core” of the power. In order to eliminate dissension, he plotted underhanded schemes to get rid of his political enemies Yang Shangkun and Yang’s brother Yang Baibing. At 15th National Congress of the Communist Party Committee (CPC) in 1997 and the 16th National Congress of the CPC in 2002, Jiang forced his opponents to leave their posts. Yet, he, on the other hand, ignored the relevant regulations and clung dearly to his post.

In 1989, the new Secretary General of the CCP Jiang Zemin held a press conference for both domestic and foreign reporters. A French reporter asked about the story of a female college student who, because of her involvement in the June 4th student movement in Tiananmen Square, was transferred to a farm in Sichuan Province to carry bricks from one place to another and was raped repeatedly by the local peasants. Jiang replied, “I don’t know if what you said is true or not, but that woman is a violent rioter. Even if it were true, she deserved it.” During the Great Cultural Revolution, Zhang Zhixin [10] was subjected to gang rape and her throat was sliced open (to prevent her from revealing the truth) when she was detained in prison. Jiang Zemin would probably also think that she deserved it. We can easily see Jiang Zemin’s scoundrel-like deviant mentality and cruelty.

In summary, Jiang Zemin’s hunger for dictatorial power, cruelty, and fear of “Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance” are the causes for his irrationally launching the campaign to suppress Falun Gong. This is highly consistent with the way CCP operates.


More here:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/4-12-18/24972.html

[lkfmdc]

Dear lord, this BS again :rolleyes:

For those who want to chant "freedom" and march in the streets in support of Falun Dafa, let me refresh you yet again....

People who do this seem to wake up in the middle of the night and take meat clevers to other family members....

The CCP isn't the only government that has had issues with this one man meglamania cult... whereever it has popped up the same crap happens

Now, how about we NOT spread more cult BS on the board? It has NOTHING to do with TMCA anyway

[Juna]

and since Falun Gong members have been sentenced to death, it sounds like they could be taking organs from them. [/url]

In China, no single Falun gong practitioners has been sentenced to death, but many have been persecuted to death illegally.


Going Public About Communist Concentration Camps
Two sources appear in public for the first time to detail organ-harvesting in China

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-4-21/40652.html

[lkfmdc]

Dear lord, this BS again

For those who want to chant "freedom" and march in the streets in support of Falun Dafa, let me refresh you yet again....

People who do this seem to wake up in the middle of the night and take meat clevers to other family members....

The CCP isn't the only government that has had issues with this one man meglamania cult... whereever it has popped up the same crap happens

Now, how about we NOT spread more cult BS on the board? It has NOTHING to do with TMCA anyway

[Juna]

Dear lord, this BS again :rolleyes:

whereever it has popped up the same crap happens



What do you mean?


Since its public introduction in May 1992, Falun Dafa has attracted over 100 million practitioners worldwide in just ten years. Falun Dafa cultivation emphasizes that one should conduct oneself according to the principle of "Truth-Compassion-Tolerance". Regardless of gender and age, regardless of nationality and race, every practitioner who persistently cultivates his/her heart and practices the exercises has benefited tremendously. Constant diligent cultivation has brought significant changes to many practitioners in both physical conditions and moral values. At the same time, Falun Dafa is gaining worldwide understanding and appreciation, especially in Asia, Australia, Europe, and North America.
Listed below are some awards issued by some local governments and organizations in China, Canada, US and other countries in recognition of the extraordinary contribution made by Master Li Hong Zhi and Falun Dafa to people's mental and physical health. Just as Master Li Hong Zhi said in Chicago in June 1999, "a practitioner takes worldly fame lightly. The award has no special meaning to myself; but to Falun Dafa, the meaning of the award is profound. It represents the understanding and recognition of Falun Dafa by human beings and society." He hopes that more kindhearted people will join the path of cultivating Falun Gong.




New Zealand
February 24, 2001 Photo report: Hamilton - the first city in New Zealand to proclaim Falun Dafa Day
Australia
February, 2002 Mayor of the City of Parramatta, Australia Proclaims "Falun Dafa Day" (Photo)
January 30, 2002 Falun Dafa Day in Mossman, Queensland, Australia, January 30, 2002
January 29, 2002 Falun Dafa Day Celebrated in Mareeba, Queensland, Australia on January 29, 2002
January 21, 2002 State MP Launches "Falun Dafa Week" in Cairns, Queensland, Australia 21-27 January 2002
January 15, 2002 Photo Report: Falun Dafa Day, Innisfail, Queensland, Australia
January 12, 2002 Photo Report: Falun Dafa Day, Ayr, Queensland, Australia
January 10, 2002 Australia: The City of Prosperpine Proclaims January 10th as Falun Dafa Day
January 8, 2002 Australia: MP of Queensland, Dr. John Kingston, Proclaims January 8th in Maryborough as Falun Dafa Day
January 7, 2002 Mayor of Gympie City, Queensland, Australia Writes Appreciation Letter to Falun Gong Practitioners
January 7, 2002 Mayor of Gympie City, Queensland, Australia Proclaims Falun Dafa Day
January 7, 2002 Member of Parliament of Queensland, Australia Proclaims Falun Dafa Day
December 16, 2001 Australia: The Mayor of Noosa Shire, Mr. Bob Abbot, Proclaims the Week of December 16-22 in Noosa Shire as Falun Dafa Week
December 17, 2000 Certification of Appreciation of Falun Dafa Day, City of Penrith, Australia [12/17/00]
November 18, 2000 Falun Dafa Day in Australia (11/24/00)
Canada
May 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, City of Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada [May, 2004]
May 2004 Greetings from the Mayor of Vancouver to Falun Dafa Association of Canada on the Occasion of the 12th Anniversary of Falun Dafa's Introduction to the Public [May 2004]
May 13, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Day, Halifax Regional Municipality, Nova Scotia, Canada [May 13, 2004]
May 11, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, City of Port Alberni, British Columbia, Canada [May 11, 2004]
May 10, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month Honoring Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance, City of Port Coquitlam, Canada [May 10, 2004]
May 5, 2004 Proclamation of World Falun Dafa Month, the Corporation of the District of Central Saanich, British Columbia, Canada [May 5, 2004]
May 3, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, Village of Belcarra, British Columbia, Canada [May 3, 2004]
May 3, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, Village of Cumberland, British Columbia, Canada [May 3, 2004]
May 3, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, City of Duncan, British Columbia, Canada [May 3, 2004]
May 3, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, Town of Ladysmith, British Columbia, Canada [May 3, 2004]
May 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, District of Langford, British Columbia, Canada [May 2004]
April 27, 2004 Canada: Mayor of the City of Port Moody Proclaims Falun Dafa Month Honouring Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance [April 27, 2004]
April 27, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, City of Parksville, British Columbia, Canada [April 27, 2004]
April 27, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, City of Port Moody, Canada [April 27, 2004]
April 22, 2004 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Month, Town of Sidney, British Columbia, Canada [April 22, 2004]
May 13, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week Honoring Truthfulness-Benevolence-Forbearance, City of Port Moody, Canada [May 13, 2003]
May 12, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week, City of Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada [May 12, 2003]
May 12, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week, Halifax Regional Municipality, Canada [May 12, 2003]
May 12, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week, Town of Morinville, Canada [May 12-18, 2003]
May 8, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week, City of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada [May 8, 2003]
May 7, 2003 Proclamation of World Falun Dafa Day, Corporation of the District of Central Saanich, British Columbia, Canada [May 7, 2003]
May 5, 2003 Proclamation of Falun Dafa Week, City of Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada [May 5, 2003]

A lot more here:

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/recognition.html

[lkfmdc]

Dear lord, this BS again

For those who want to chant "freedom" and march in the streets in support of Falun Dafa, let me refresh you yet again....

People who do this seem to wake up in the middle of the night and take meat clevers to other family members....

The CCP isn't the only government that has had issues with this one man meglamania cult... whereever it has popped up the same crap happens

Now, how about we NOT spread more cult BS on the board? It has NOTHING to do with TMCA anyway

PS: Do you think posting articles from Rev Moon's paper makes you seem more credible :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Dear lord, this BS again

For those who want to chant "freedom" and march in the streets in support of Falun Dafa, let me refresh you yet again....

People who do this seem to wake up in the middle of the night and take meat clevers to other family members....

The CCP isn't the only government that has had issues with this one man meglamania cult... whereever it has popped up the same crap happens

Now, how about we NOT spread more cult BS on the board? It has NOTHING to do with TMCA anyway

PS: Do you think posting articles from Rev Moon's paper makes you seem more credible :rolleyes:

PS #2 Wow, do you think Juna is a memmber maybe? :rolleyes: