OT: Fish - Not Animals, Not meat.....then WHAT?

[Souljah]

Sorry to bring in such an odd off topic thread since the forum seems to have been relatively ON topic recently.
:::::::

Its just been bothering me and I was wondering if anyone with some biological knowledge could help me understand why they are not considered Animals and they're 'Flesh' is not considered meat..... If not meat and animals what are they?

Is it just so that vegetarians can get away with eating them? :rolleyes:


Any thoughts?

Thanks for any help..

-greg

[MasterKiller]

Well, they aren't cute and fuzzy, so most people don't feel bad about eating them, the same way they don't feel bad about stepping on a ****roach.

Most people will gladly put a tuna on rye in their stomach, but kill a cute dolphin and people (read chicks) get all pizzed.

However, I operate under the philosophy that all life is precious, and cannot be replaced; therefore, killing any living creature should be avoided if at all possible.

That being said, I use insecticides to keep spiders and roaches out of my house just like everyone else, but no one is perfect. Of course, insects and rodents invading a house can create health hazards from bites and bacteria, so perhaps I justify this by claiming it's self-defense. At any rate, I don't eat fish.

[Water Dragon]

It's OK to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings.

[PHILBERT]

The way I view it is if that cow had the opportunity to eat me, I think it would, so I better eat it first. :p

[anton]

Well, i don't pretend to know much about biology, but i know enough to know tat fish ARE considered animals... they're part of the animal kingdom, along with mammals reptiles birds insects etc...

[Souljah]

Vegetarians don't eat fish.

Yes I know but you get those making exceptions and claiming that -

"I don't eat meat, Fish is not meat, so therefore I can eat fish"

(Sorry to go all premise - premise - conclusion on you there)

I don't see how this comes about. Fish have flesh - OK not the same makeup as mammal flesh but its still flesh.
At what point fish meat deemed to be not meat?
Many call themselves 'fishtarians'



It's OK to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings.

Yes, well alot of people claim this too, but then at the same time some would argue (NOT ME) that cows do not have feeling either, that their actions are purely instinctual.


Well, i don't pretend to know much about biology, but i know enough to know tat fish ARE considered animals... they're part of the animal kingdom, along with mammals reptiles birds insects etc...

Yes, I feel similarly, they are living things and ARE animals, but I was just talking about it with my friends 'vegetarian' girlfriend and she was arguing the point that fish are not deemed to have any type of emotional engine and therefore cannot be compared to others animals - not that theyre not animals as such, just that theyre not THAT sort of animal - was really her arguement.....

Now I dont really know about fish having emotions, but there was a study recently which concluded that trout can feel pain, as it was previously thought they didnt.

I just think its abit of a doubnle standard for so-called vegetarians really.....


greg

[chen zhen]

Fish= not animals?
what kinda stupid BS is this.

[rubthebuddha]

vegetarians just can't handle the fishy goodness, that's why. ;)

and yes, fish are animals:

family: animalia
phylum: chordata (subphylum vertebrata)
class: osteichthyes

fyi: class is where humans and fishies diverge. from there, we branch off into mammalia.

now, where the hell did you hear that fish were not animals?

recent research has been looking into whether or not fish have emotions or feelings. such research has recently shown that fish do feel pain.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
It's OK to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings.

Kurt Cobain-Something in the Way-Nevermind Album

Jeebus peeple, does everything have to be spelled out for you guys?

[fa_jing]

I like fish.

[Former castleva]

Buddha expressed it nicely enough.
I feel an urge to go into greater detail but I feel it may be found offending by some,rest be history.

"Yes, I feel similarly, they are living things and ARE animals, but I was just talking about it with my friends 'vegetarian' girlfriend and she was arguing the point that fish are not deemed to have any type of emotional engine and therefore cannot be compared to others animals - not that theyre not animals as such, just that theyre not THAT sort of animal - was really her arguement....."

That´s some logic.
This reflects an enormous misunderstanding of all zoology.
The branch of science (zoology) concerned with the study of fish is called "ichtyology".

"Now I dont really know about fish having emotions, but there was a study recently which concluded that trout can feel pain, as it was previously thought they didnt."

I don´t know about trouts in particular.But this is not an easy one.Fish show signs that might be interpreted as inability to feel pain (but differing interpretations might kick in) Also,due to neuroanatomy of fish,it is thought that they might not be able to feel pain (again,you cannot talk for all of the fish of the world.Brain of certain fish is fairly big and/or highly costly metabolically).

[TonyM.]

That's it! Sensory overload! Now I WILL be on the white river fly fishing this afternoon!

[rubthebuddha]

that's it -- sushi day for all.

WD -- speaking of cobain, question for you:

what was the last thing on his mind after he pulled the trigger?













powder burns.

[Ford Prefect]

That's just a cop-out by wannabe vegetarians. Meat (cow, chicken, fish, rat, whatever) is what allowed us to get to where we are today. The way I see it is vegetarians are only hurting themselves.

[MasterKiller]

Meat (cow, chicken, fish, rat, whatever) is what allowed us to get to where we are today. The way I see it is vegetarians are only hurting themselves. Is it your opinion that consumption of meat (and marrow, really, since it was probably the original catalyst that jumpstarted the whole process) is still necessary to human evolution?

[Ford Prefect]

Marrow is what started our ascent up the food chain. It didn't put us at the top. Protein is the most important macro-nutrient for brain growth. A child deprived of protein throughout its development will never have its brain reach full maturity.

[MasterKiller]

Surely you can get protein from sources without having to kill another animal to do it. Correct?

[Ford Prefect]

Theoretically. In practice? A glass of milk has 6-8g of protein. 8oz of chicken has 40g. Bottoms up!

[MasterKiller]

Anyone know what's the maximum amount of protein your body can absorb in one day?

[Ford Prefect]

Nobody does. There are theories with estimates on both the low and high side of the spectrum, but nobody has any solid proof either way. It's not one of the more widely studied things out there.

[MasterKiller]

Is there a recommended daily allowance? Or does it pretty much depend on body size, muscle mass, etc....?

[Ford Prefect]

Like everything in diet it depends on bodyweight, goal of diet, activity level, etc.

[MasterKiller]

Just an average...what's the average suggested intake?

[Ford Prefect]

Again. That number is in contention. I can tell you one thing with studies and empirical evidence to back me up, but somebody could say another and have just as valid a point. I would always try to get in at least .5g/lbs of bodyweight.

Currently I weigh 180. I've already had 120g of protein today and will have at least a pound of chicken at dinner. Nevermind what I'll eat prior or post dinner. ;) After struggling with weight gain and weight maintenance for a long time and having a very high activity level, I've found through emprical testing of many diet theories that this works best for me for maintaining my weight.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I like fish.

I prefer white tiger, myself.

[Water Dragon]

Just as long as you aren't chasing the Blue Dragon!

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Just as long as you aren't chasing the Blue Dragon!

Of course not. Have you caught the romo? :D

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by CrippledAvenger


Of course not. Have you caught the romo? :D

Not yet. He's a slippery little sumnabiatch

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Water Dragon


Not yet. He's a slippery little sumnabiatch

It's all that turkish oil wrestling.

[Shaolin-Do]

Eh?

"recent research has been looking into whether or not fish have emotions or feelings. such research has recently shown that fish do feel pain."

Dunno about pain, but all animals feel stress. Marbalization in meat differs due to differing EMOTIONAL stress levels of the animal.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Dunno about pain, but all animals feel stress. Marbalization in meat differs due to differing EMOTIONAL stress levels of the animal.

Hence, Kobe beef.

Man, do those cows live well..

[Souljah]

Dunno about pain, but all animals feel stress. Marbalization in meat differs due to differing EMOTIONAL stress levels of the animal.

Yes, thats just it I'm not trying to say fish experiance very complex emotions such as love or hatred, but I just want them to be put on par with other 'consumed' animals, it's a fallacy that shouldn't be used by vegetarians any more.....

Some good points (some pointless, but funny too).

:D

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
It's OK to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings.

That's from the hidden Nirvana song on Nevermind. Is it from something before that, too?

IronFist

[Shaolin-Do]

"Kurt Cobain-Something in the Way-Nevermind Album

Jeebus peeple, does everything have to be spelled out for you guys?"

:rolleyes:


SAVE ME JEEBUS!
Im off to SC. peaceout.

[IronFist]

Hey smart ass, that's the same song I was talking about. I also didn't read any replies before I wrote that. But I was asking if it was used BEFORE Kurt Cobain used it, because in his song Territorial ****ings he steals the first line "Come on smile on your brother everybody get together try to love one another right now"

^ I may have that line wrong, I haven't heard that song in years, but it's something like that.

IronFist

[Serpent]

All animals are sentient - be careful of your definitions.

From dictionary.com:

sentient

\Sen"ti*ent\, a. [L. sentiens, -entis, p. pr. of sentire to discern or perceive by the senses. See Sense.] Having a faculty, or faculties, of sensation and perception. Specif. (Physiol.), especially sensitive; as, the sentient extremities of nerves, which terminate in the various organs or tissues.

[Starchaser107]

hmnn, the people that eat fish arent true vegetarians, they should be called something else.
a fish in an animal, it has children it has parents and it is capable of feeling pain , why not the opposite , pleasure, why not love?

with that said,
fish are very tasty.

[Souljah]

hmnn, the people that eat fish arent true vegetarians, they should be called something else.

"fishtarians"

[IronFist]

Hippies?

[Vash]

If something can be killed, consumed, and/or tortured with a cattle prod, I'm gonna eat it, just so it can't eat me first.

[Starchaser107]

Hmmn
a very flamboyant fellow u are

yes , cows are pretty tasty too

[Vash]

!

[Volcano Admim]

Well fish are metazoa (spell?)
If one says the metazoa are animals
course a fish is an animal
and so is an ant

but a tree is not

fish is meat for me too