Dit Da Jow in Chitown? [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

CrippledAvenger

09-11-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Water Dragon
I'm supposed to get a big batch soon. I'll get you a bottle when I do. For now, I can bring some to work if you can get into the loop tomorrow.

I'm sorry man. Seriously. Was it the reap? :(

LOL. Don't be sorry. That was a GREAT throw. But to answer your question, no. Not from that throw. I think I got two from Fajing on the ground work (d@mn boy grips hard), and I got two from you in the freewrestling.

All in all, a pretty good night, if you ask me.:D I just wanted to grab something to clear these up before Saturday, but I'll be perfectly alright if I can't. Bruises are part of the turf-- if I don't get them, it means I haven't been training hard enough.

CrippledAvenger

09-11-2003, 11:46 AM

The Jow WD has is really good. I didn't put any faith in the stuff prior to the first time I used it, but now, I'm begining to rethink my stance on the matter.

The problem with a double blind study though, is there's no standardized jow recipe (at least, as I understand), so you might be missing an active ingredient. But I'd love to see somebody do a conclusive study on the matter.

method man

09-11-2003, 01:08 PM

very good didajow in u drugstor it call BENGAY or FLEXALL 454

David Jamieson

09-11-2003, 04:10 PM

lol @ method man. bengay and the like do nothing for bruises.

jow been used and been around for a very long time. some jows are for different things.

for bruises there are all kinds of over the counter. You can also online order good jow from a couple of places.

The effect is a combination of the active ingredients which relieve blood stasis (build up and stagnency)and increase bloodflow, and the massage technique itself when applying the jow.

There are several ingredients you can use that have these traits and combinations of the herbs gives you both effects along with massage.

Some recipes are still pretty secret. Many quite good ones and even some great ones aren't. Just keep looking. :D

cheers

method man

09-11-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Kung Lek
lol @ method man. bengay and the like do nothing for bruises.

jow been used and been around for a very long time. some jows are for different things.

for bruises there are all kinds of over the counter. You can also online order good jow from a couple of places.

The effect is a combination of the active ingredients which relieve blood stasis (build up and stagnency)and increase bloodflow, and the massage technique itself when applying the jow.

There are several ingredients you can use that have these traits and combinations of the herbs gives you both effects along with massage.

Some recipes are still pretty secret. Many quite good ones and even some great ones aren't. Just keep looking. :D

cheers

only thing good for bruis is time plus ICE no secret otherwise everybody use didajow in olympic

beside didajow lotta thng been arond long time do u drink h2o2 plus silver or what?????????? conman scam been arond longer than jow too :D

http://www.quackwatch.org

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 07:08 AM

only thing good for bruis is time plus ICE no secret otherwise everybody use didajow in olympic

some people know, and some people don't know.

athletes in the olympics use all kinds of liniments and medicines I'd wager there's some olympian using jow.

cheers

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Kung Lek

some people know, and some people don't know.

Hello Pot. I'd like you to meet my good friend Kettle.

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 07:24 AM

What do you 'know' wd that you think my comment is incorrect?

Do you make or use Jow?
If you did, you would know it works on speeding healing to hematoma, you would also know that ben gay does not contain the active ingredients that break up the dead blood cells which rush to the injured area to heal it and wash them away with increased blood flow to the area, which is brought on by massage and the herbs that help.

Ice helps inasmuch as it slows blood flow to the area, but it cannot breakup the mass of cells that has gathered at the site.

massage helps, but for most people it is too painful to endure without something to take care of the neuralgia (the jow if it's good)

bruises are scars in the making beneath the skin.
if you don't break up the scars and get rid of the stagnent blood, you will feel it when you age. To many scars under the skin can effect a person in a lot of negative ways such as decreasing their mobility or general deformation of the area if it is arounds a joint.
Standard knowledge to western and eastern healing pracs.

I'll say it again 'some people know and some people don't know'

Now what was it you were saying about pots and kettles? :D

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Kung Lek

Now what was it you were saying about pots and kettles? :D

Kung Lek, If you tell me you own 2 BullDogs, but you show me a BullDog and a Chihuahua, you don't really have 2 Bulldogs.

On your webpage, you list a camphor based arthritis medicine as a Jow. It doesn't matter if you have legitimate Jow as well.

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Kung Lek

Do you make or use Jow?
If you did, you would know it works on speeding healing to hematoma, you would also know that ben gay does not contain the active ingredients that break up the dead blood cells which rush to the injured area to heal it and wash them away with increased blood flow to the area, which is brought on by massage and the herbs that help.

Originally posted by Crippled Avenger
The Jow WD has is really good. I didn't put any faith in the stuff prior to the first time I used it, but now, I'm begining to rethink my stance on the matter.

Reading is Fundamental

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 08:02 AM

I gave you the explain on the jows in my site as well, but yet you fixate on a point that is arguable.

the product you keep referring to is indeed a jow and is used and sold as such.

I'll reiterate, there are many jows for many things, dit da jow blankets quite a few different ingredients and covers ever thing from aching muscle liniments to plasters for bone setting.

Are you saying tehre is only one purpose and type of jow? Because that is incorrect.

cheers

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 08:30 AM

First you say that Ben Gay is not a Jow. Then you say that the Chinese equivalent is. Yes, I know that there are different jows. We use 2 in my school. We also use training wines and other medicines (which are not Jows)

Back to the BullDog example. You tell me you have 2 BullDogs. You bring your first dog out which is a nice looking BullDog. I tell you that is a nice looking BullDog.

If you bring out the next dog and it is a Chihuahua, I’m going to tell you that it’s not a Bulldog. If you tell me that there are different kinds of BullDogs, I will agree. But I will also point out that your Chihuahua ain’t one of them. If you ask me why I’m fixating on it, I’ll say that it is because you are wrong. Even though you try to portray yourself as an expert on BullDogs.

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 09:02 AM

I don't portray myself as an expert WD and frankly I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

secondly, zgz is not the chinese equiv to bengay, read the ingredients and you will find that many are common to many iron hit wines.

You should read the ingredients and the actions of the formula before you start saying zgz is NOT a jow. It is a bruise liniment and is not just for joint pain.

Where did you get that idea anyway, did someone else tell you that or did you actually do a comparison.

One of the main functions of zgz is indeed to ease sports fatigue and it is highly recommended for rheumatic pain, but it key ingredients relive neuralgia(pain) dissipate swelling a brusing by increasing bloodflow.

reading is fundamental isn't it? :rolleyes:

maybe do your homework before telling people they are wrong about things that they have clearly looked into, where you have clearly not.

fa_jing

09-12-2003, 10:12 AM

yo, Dr Wu (taiji/TCM guy) has a herb shop on n. Clark street, I get big bottles of Jao for $25, with all of the whole herbs still in the bottle. It works, I sent SevenStar a bottle a long time ago and he loved it. (sorry about the delivery, etc. haha) If you like I'll hook either of you guys up w/it. Thanks for reminding me, I'm all achy and forgot I had that.

I do have a big ole bruise on the front of my thigh as well as a red line through the middle, do either of you guys recall stomping on my thigh? It's wierd, I can't think of anything that would have caused that.

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by fa_jing

I do have a big ole bruise on the front of my thigh as well as a red line through the middle, do either of you guys recall stomping on my thigh? It's wierd, I can't think of anything that would have caused that.

I'm guessing it's from when I threw you and you held on to me and we went down together. You just didn't notice at the time cause your nutz hurt a lot worse at the time :eek:

Kung Lek, from experience, zgz doesn't do $hit for bruises. Sprained wrists-yes. torn shoulder joints-yes. Blown out backs-Yes. Bruises-no.
If the bottle says it does, that's false advertising.

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 11:06 AM

wd-

I've used zgs as a bruise liniment and it works fine. cuts teh time to heal in half.

I prefer homemade because I don't particulalrly care much for all teh camphor and menthol, makes my eyes water.

point is, in a pinch and without anoter source it is an acceptable jow and general analgesic balm that does have what it takes to clear hematoma.

here's why

Radix Notoginseng -25%
Radix Angelicae Dahuricae -13%
Rhizoma Curcumae -18%
Cinnamommum Camphora 15% (this is not straight up camphor)
Moghama Macrophylla-12%
Rhizoma Polygoni Cuspidati-12%
Mentholum 3%
Camphora-2%

It does well as a bruise medicine. NOt the best, but it will do the job.

cheers

MasterKiller

09-12-2003, 11:25 AM

fa jing,
Hook a brutha up. Seriously, can you send some Jow to Oklahoma? What's the shipping charges?

Also, I get sore knees sometimes (tendonitis). Would the same Jow be good for that, or is there something else I could use?

TonyM.

09-12-2003, 11:46 AM

God I hope that's not the same Dr. wu that thinks all jews are commies and are trying to take over the world.

Water Dragon

09-12-2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by TonyM.
God I hope that's not the same Dr. wu that thinks all jews are commies and are trying to take over the world.

Yeah. That Dr. Smith guy is pretty insane too.

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 12:40 PM

a persons political and world views have little to do with extrinsic skills and abilities in regards to herbalism.

Medicine would not be where it is today if not for some pretty whack individuals in the world. I could name a few doctors who would be considered downright "evil" but if not for them we wouldn't know half of what we know about disease and it's treatments, cures and geneic structure.

Check out where the original source on DNA sequencing comes from, you might be surprised.

cheers

fa_jing

09-12-2003, 01:17 PM

No, this Dr. Wu (Wu Shih-Cun) is an accomplished physician in TCM and Taiji expert from Northern China and I doubt he would know what a Jew was if he was bit in the ass by one. Nice guy.

MasterKiller - the thing about the Jow is that it comes in a thick glass bottle and there's no way to get the herbs out without breaking it. So I have to send the whole thing (heavy) and pad it. When I sent some to SevenStar, I ended up paying 22 dollars for shipping and packaging, aside from the 25 bucks for the bottle (750 ml). And it was a big hassle, although it arrived intact. Nevertheless, I will hook you up if you can pay for it. The good thing about the whole herbs is, as you use it up you just fill it back up with cheap rum, and you can keep using it for a very long time. It works very well, the only drawback is that if you apply it before bed, the missus may not like the smell. It smells better than Ben Gay, though. Send me a PM if interested.

Have you tried the Glucosamine/Chondritin supplement? The one for joint health? I have and it does help some. You may want to try some PT for the knees, too.

greendragon

09-12-2003, 01:40 PM

In Chinatown look for the pharmacy name Sun Sun Tong. Buy the DiTaWan in the little square red box with his picture on it. Inside you'll find a ball of tar inside a ball of wax. Use mortar and pestle to mix with alcohol making your linament. Some folks eat a small piece for bone bruise but i wouldn't (has bear bile in it). Just rub it on.

method man

09-12-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Kung Lek

some people know, and some people don't know.

athletes in the olympics use all kinds of liniments and medicines I'd wager there's some olympian using jow.

cheers

sure sure lotta crazy superstis peopl sombody els use voodoo doll too i sure but no proove work right???????

also lotta noncense for sick but humun body amaze heal self you do nothin most time this call plaseabo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

u like jow or voodoo fine but no proof work actually som proof can hurt

ICE work lotta proove never hurt unless u stupid using it!!!!!!!

greendragon

09-12-2003, 04:07 PM

hoo u call souprstitchus and stoopud ? can u how prooev it ?

David Jamieson

09-12-2003, 04:08 PM

method man -

saying jow is a placebo is like saying aspirin is a placebo.
It isn't superstition or a placebo. It is a medicine used to heal injury and ease pain. Nothing voodoo about it.

cheers

anton

09-12-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by method man

sure sure lotta crazy superstis peopl sombody els use voodoo doll too i sure but no proove work right???????

also lotta noncense for sick but humun body amaze heal self you do nothin most time this call plaseabo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

u like jow or voodoo fine but no proof work actually som proof can hurt

ICE work lotta proove never hurt unless u stupid using it!!!!!!!

You bring up the example of atheletes, but many are now using alternative therapies such as acupuncture and TCM to speed recovery from injuries.

As for the proof issue - did you know that only 15% of Western medicine is clinically proven?

MonkeySlap Too

09-13-2003, 08:58 AM

Zhen Gui Shuai is not Dit Da Jow. It may share some common ingredients, but it has other ingredients that give it a different classification. It is not the most efficient formula for Dit Da Jow.

Mountain Dew and Anti-Freeze both have propylene glycol, but they are very different things. An extreme example, but apt.

There are plenty of good and even great formulas readily available - just get them from a book on Chinese herbalism, not some white karate guy who says he does kung fu.

Also - have the formula reviewed by a good herbalist - be specific on what you weant to use it for - or he may modify it to keep you from hurting yourself.

TonyM.

09-13-2003, 09:04 AM

This is the guy I was refering to. www.bamboo-delight.com/dr.htm
Some of the formulas are OK and some are suspect. His overall attitude is psycotic.

David Jamieson

09-13-2003, 09:15 AM

Zhen Gui Shuai is not Dit Da Jow. It may share some common ingredients, but it has other ingredients that give it a different classification. It is not the most efficient formula for Dit Da Jow.

ms2, you contradict yourself in this statement, first you say it's not, then you say it's not the most efficient. I agree, it's not the most efficient, but it is a dit da medicine. what is it gonna take to help you guys understand there is more dit da jows than what you think there is or what is in your practice only. ZGS is prepared and sold as a dit da medicine with special effects on rheumatism and joint pain but can be applied even in bone setting. It's ingredients stimu;ate and increase bloodflow to an effected area, this is a KEY function of all dit da jow. Just because it is not the 'best' doesn'ty mean it isn't what it is!

Mountain Dew and Anti-Freeze both have propylene glycol, but they are very different things. An extreme example, but apt.
not a good analogy, would have been better if you used coke and pepsi, doesn't relate to the idea of dit da medicines.

There are plenty of good and even great formulas readily available - just get them from a book on Chinese herbalism, not some white karate guy who says he does kung fu.
Not that many 'good' ones actually, but a few. Your last remark smacks of myopia and even a tinge of racism. I know a few "white karate guys" who are very good at their arts and have depth of understand in regards to healing sports injuries and martial injuries.

Also - have the formula reviewed by a good herbalist - be specific on what you weant to use it for - or he may modify it to keep you from hurting yourself.
What is a good herbalist and where do you find them. I know 10 herbalists in c-town here where I live, 2 of them are "good" the rest are merely salesmen marketing herbs!

Yeesh, what am i gonna have to do, scan the darn labels and ingredients, cross reference them to my herbs encyclopedia then to my TCM reference material and then spell it out for you guys?

Dit Da Jow is a blanket reference to hit medicines. It doesn't mean just your sifu's secret school recipe, it means tho0se medicines that are mild to strong that relieve pain and increase bloodflow while breaking up blood stagnency in order to aid in the healing of subcutaneous injuries. There are internal and external dit da medicines, with similar formulations though the internal variety removes the highly poisonous ingredients.

K, I've said enough about this.
cheers

MonkeySlap Too

09-13-2003, 10:51 AM

Kung Lek, you've got too much time on your hands...

If you want to consider ZGS a 'hit' medicine, well yeah, you could. It shares some aspects. But it's basically 'hot' aspirin in a bottle. Not to be confused with the type of hit medicine used in CMA training, you know the stuff we in CMA call Dit Da Jow - our jargon. By best, I assumed you could catch on that I was discussing the effects most needed in CMA training.

I find the rascist line funny, as I'm a white guy. Let me just reccoimend to you not to get your TCM knowledge from your karate teacher. You wouldn't ask him to prescribe drugs, would you? It's amazing how peoples standards drop when they go 'oooh, he's a martial arts guy...' Which in itself, isn't all that impressive most of the time.

I'm done. Life is too busy to engage in pointless discussions. Got to go train.

MonkeySlap Too

09-13-2003, 09:12 PM

By the way Crip, thanks. That's my recipie.

anton

09-13-2003, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by TonyM.
This is the guy I was refering to. www.bamboo-delight.com/dr.htm
Some of the formulas are OK and some are suspect. His overall attitude is psycotic.

That site is the biggest load of anti-semitic drivel I've ever seen... He's cashing in on a really specific niche here... Nazis who use TCM???

SevenStar

09-14-2003, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by fa_jing
yo, Dr Wu (taiji/TCM guy) has a herb shop on n. Clark street, I get big bottles of Jao for $25, with all of the whole herbs still in the bottle. It works, I sent SevenStar a bottle a long time ago and he loved it. (sorry about the delivery, etc. haha) If you like I'll hook either of you guys up w/it. Thanks for reminding me, I'm all achy and forgot I had that.

I do have a big ole bruise on the front of my thigh as well as a red line through the middle, do either of you guys recall stomping on my thigh? It's wierd, I can't think of anything that would have caused that.

yeah, he's got good stuff - have him ship some to oklahoma. WD's is good also.

CrippledAvenger

09-14-2003, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
By the way Crip, thanks. That's my recipie.

No, I should be the one thanking you, MS2. :D Your jow worked wonders after the arse-whopping that WD put me through yesterday.

I got some off of WD yesterday, so I don't think I'll be trying out Dr. Wu's stuff, but thanks for the info, Fajing. I'm sure it'll come in handy one of these days.

David Jamieson

09-14-2003, 09:50 AM

Kung Lek, you've got too much time on your hands...

I wish :)

If you want to consider ZGS a 'hit' medicine, well yeah, you could. It shares some aspects. But it's basically 'hot' aspirin in a bottle. When I say "hit" medicine in context to zgs, i am talking minor strains and sprains. I don't think I have said use ZGS ofr Iron Palm or Iron body training.

Not to be confused with the type of hit medicine used in CMA training, you know the stuff we in CMA call Dit Da Jow - our jargon. By best, I assumed you could catch on that I was discussing the effects most needed in CMA training. a haha you so funny.

The whole thing is actually quite confusing for a lot of people. Partly because of all the different products and liniments available and partly because of guarded jealous secret recipe keepers who want to be the only ones who cash in on the family formula.

I find the rascist line funny, as I'm a white guy. Let me just reccoimend to you not to get your TCM knowledge from your karate teacher. You wouldn't ask him to prescribe drugs, would you?
And you or any number of other martial arts teachers are qualified? Being a kungfu teacher doesn't automatically make you a healer. I find this interesting that there are many who believe they are and have no qualified medical training at all. Lord knows what school of 'medicine' some of these people go to.

It's amazing how peoples standards drop when they go 'oooh, he's a martial arts guy...' Which in itself, isn't all that impressive most of the time. People are always loking outside of tehmselves for an answer. That's human nature. Who inspired you to take up the art? Who made you go oooooh?

cheers

MonkeySlap Too

09-14-2003, 10:49 AM

So Kung Lek, I said I wouldn't come back - but one thing...

I never said I was qualified to practice TCM. While I have had formal training in TCM, I am not certified or qualified. Just knowledgeable enough to know how dangerous it is when overzealous 'experts' with no actual training in TCM give advice - or to recklessly do so myself. It's always wiser to speak only of which you know. I have students now who finished the training, and I take my advice from thier teachers. It is interesting how you continue to interject personal attacks by attributing actions to me that I never took. This speaks volumes, as I'm sure you don't see yourself as a troll. You really do mean what you say.

BTW - What you use for strains and sprains is different than what you use for contusions and bone injuries. It also varies based upon the type of pain, if you are appltying it to an injured area.

MonkeySlap Too

09-14-2003, 10:55 AM

Also - sure there are many varieties of hit medicine. But the formulas commonly reffered to as 'Dit Da Jow' are bruise medicines, not rheumatism or sprain medications like ZGS. Your insistence that it is an addequate substitute also, frankly speaks volumes.

You aren't teaching people this stuff, are you?

Also - if you bother to look in the actual medical texts from TCM, you can find everything you need to know about making a great jow. That secrecy stuff only plays with the rubes. The world has changed, my little moderator.

MonkeySlap Too

09-14-2003, 10:58 AM

Crip - WD is a good guy. The jow is actually pretty cheap to make - about $7-12 in herbs based on where you buy, and then the alcohol. This formula is the best one I've found, and I've tried plenty. I've got a book in the works, and it will include these formulas. This stuff is so easy to make, and the knowledge so common these days, that it's silly not to make your own.

David Jamieson

09-14-2003, 08:04 PM

ms2-

the poster got bruised while sparring and was looking for medicine to take care of his bruises. Are you saying that only Iron Palm medicine will take care of bruising and that zgs can't?

zgs is favoured for it joint relief because of the heat generated by the mentholum and the camphor which in turn provides comfort to the sufferer, however, the other herbs in it are indeed good for bruising and strains caused by sparring and the like and you don't need a 12 buck bottle of iron palm medicine to take care of that.

zgs is available in chinatown and it's cheaper than that. It will do adequately for bruising.

my little moderator :rolleyes: lol

you sound like a slighted sales person :-D
The cheap one doesn't work at all even though it is a standard formula for 40 years in china fo the purposes we have been talking about. Including bruises. small amounts in your bath is soothing too. :)

if I am doing ip bag training, I am not using zgs, i am using strong dit da jow special for it.

But if I get a bruise sparring I will use the zgs because it's cheaper, readily available and will do the trick.

cheers

CrippledAvenger

09-14-2003, 11:33 PM

Kung Lek,

Instead of assuming what I want, why don't you ask me what I'm looking for?

As is, I get MS2's jow for free. I was temporarily deprived of my supply and wanted to know what else was available in Jows, not camphor-based heat balms. I have no wish to try your solution, nor is it what the knowledgable people in the area recommended to me. Nonetheless, thank you for the information.

Everyone else, many many thanks for the info. I'll see you SC guys soon. Train hard.

Merryprankster

09-15-2003, 03:31 AM

As for the proof issue - did you know that only 15% of Western medicine is clinically proven?

34% of shaven yaks prefer their grass in a tea cup!

16% of all women have moustaches!

We share 27% of our DNA with starfish!

99% of people spew statistics without providing source information! :D

Not being a jerk--just poking a little fun.

Seriously, do you have a source on this? Curiosity has been piqued!

David Jamieson

09-15-2003, 05:03 AM

cripple, read your own post :rolleyes:

I am assuming nothing. You said - is their jow in chinatown I can buy for my bruises i got sparring. -

I said, try "x"

next thing you know the snakeoil competition starts and all the homeopaths are hitting on me for calling a spade a spade and in the same breath "selling" you their own brand of mash. Which is cool, but dude, if that's your final word, why the heck did you post in the first place?

harumph lol.

I'm curious as well in regards to the out of the hat 15% stat on western medicine, simply because if it's practiced it has been clinically tested before it hits the market.

Taomonkey

09-15-2003, 02:07 PM

MK

Check your PM.

I'm in Tulsa and can send you some jow, or meet you someplace if your in Tulsa again. I have two brews right now, One has been stewing for 3 years and is some on the most powerful jow I have used. We play Filipino Arnis and bruises and pop knots are quite frequent. The other formula is specifically for bone & ligaments and deep tissue damage. Tell me what specifically you want out of the jow and I'll put together a formula and you can add the alcohol, or I can send you a bottle of what I have now.

anton

09-16-2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Merryprankster

Seriously, do you have a source on this? Curiosity has been piqued!

No offence taken :)

No to tell you the truth I got it straight out of a documentary on alternative therapy I saw recently... too lazy to do the research and find out whether this figure is accurate.

However it is well known that a great deal of Western medicine either was originally based on erroneous conceptions of human anatomy, and only worked by fluke. Other medicines came directly from folk-traditions, which only later came to be sientifically proven to work later. And others yet survived from archaic medical traditions (from the days when stuff like blood-letting and trepanation were common)... and continue to be used without any real scientific explanation as to why they work... Electro Convulsive Therapy still commonly used in psychiatric care is a good example.
Given this, I do find it questionable when people reject other treatments which have only statistically (but not scientifically) been proven to work for many people, as "snake-oil" while accepting things like ECT as an effective medical treatment.

BTW - I've personally almost never used any alternative medicine, I'm just for unbiased assessment of these things.

MasterKiller

09-16-2003, 08:21 AM

Taomonkey,

Check your PMs. Thanks!

David Jamieson

09-16-2003, 08:52 AM

No to tell you the truth I got it straight out of a documentary on alternative therapy I saw recently... too lazy to do the research and find out whether this figure is accurate

apparently so were they lol.

You can't take about 16th century western medicine in context to today or vs homeopathy.

There are more whackos in alternative medicine I am willing to bet and more flukes in treatment results as well. Thanks, but no thanks to the great majority of wannabe doctors who don't take the time to actually study the hard stuff and want to move right into the clinic.

That's just lazy in the guise of giving a hoot.

cheers

method man

09-17-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by anton

You bring up the example of atheletes, but many are now using alternative therapies such as acupuncture and TCM to speed recovery from injuries.

As for the proof issue - did you know that only 15% of Western medicine is clinically proven?

acupunct can proove lotta studie for pane this why INSURANCE PAY!!!!!!!

if west medicn on 15% then what % for jow maybe NEGATIVE?????

method man

09-17-2003, 01:11 PM

method man

09-17-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Kung Lek
method man -

saying jow is a placebo is like saying aspirin is a placebo.
It isn't superstition or a placebo. It is a medicine used to heal injury and ease pain. Nothing voodoo about it.

cheers

asprin studie hundred year lotta proove cannot patent still studie today BECAUSE IS REAL doctor know exact what asprin can cannot do not true for jow

compare asprin to jow is like compar gracie to 3 year little boy in tiger shulman skhool

David Jamieson

09-17-2003, 05:24 PM

method man, I think it is safe to say that you may freely and without question live with your pain then. :-)

the efficacy and properties of aspirin is well known. The reactions it causes, the physiological changes that occur with consumption.

all known and documented.

the reason it is not patented is simple judicial. You can't patent something that is in the public domain essentially which aspirin is.

can you patent a willow trees bark? :D I think not.

cheers

p.s, this is the problem that big drug companies have with naturalists by the way, they cann't get around the fact that they didn't invent whole plants and they can't stop folk remedies from working so, it becomes "evil" and they market to that. Unfortunately, these facts do not negate the amount of quacks in homeopathy. It equally doesn't discount the quacks with degrees in western medicine either! lol

caveat emporum