True fighting 'skill'

[Weapon-Maker]

How do all of you judge a fighter's skill? By his cutesy black belt? By the number of 'actual' fights he's been in and won? By the complexity of his techniques? I was inspired to write this topic after reading 'why don't black belts have any skill?'.All a black belt means is that you can do the kata the way teacher wants you to,nothing more.What the hell good is a black belt with no actual fighting expeience? It really amazes me how many black belts think they're 'the ****',when in fact,they have no real experience in 'street' fights.Technique is not enough,you have to have that killer-instinct and the stomach to use what you learned,even if it means crippling or disfiguring your attacker.Now,I have met some black belts who had been in lots of street fights,they had experience and had mastered their fighting art,these guys were true 'fighters'.How do you guys determine who is a real fighter? Also,is the guy who's teaching you a true fighter?,if so,how can you tell? (this topic is aimed at those who learn the arts mainly for self-defense purposes,not sport or other reasons).

[Koing]

I'd my Si Fu is a true figher. You can just tell with some people. some are good only for belts and doing katas but others will also be good at fighting and be skillzed. You have to do training in it and be confident in it. MY friend a black belt in TKD is a black belt but he'd never stick up for himself and think his black belt is useless to him. Shows a bad student or class he was in I think.


I understand what you mean. Street Fighting is different to anything. Its fast and real in all senses.

I'd say a real figher doesn't need no belt. They just have to be confident and effective in what they do. They must be efficient with what they do. Be able to fight and defend themsevles and stop the person from attacking them any means.

"Bye 4 now; not 4 ever"

[oldwolf]

You are only as good as your last fight (read real fight), if you havent had one you can be a 99th Dan but you are still untried/untested in the real neon arena.

"And the crowd called out for more"

[Weapon-Maker]

Good answer OldWolf.Koing-sorry to hear that about your friend,sounds like he wasted alot of time in TKD.Some people are just naturally 'passive' and will avoid conflict at any cost,perhaps he is a 'passive' type.Nothing wrong with that,I feel that I'm too 'aggressive' and have a short fuse,personally.

[shaolinboxer]

The best fighters are also murderers.

[honorisc]

You don't need to have any win before you get your first win. Fighting alot doesn't matter~only that Moment.

A variety of training or a specific training does not necessarily prepare you for the situation you actually find yourself in--training doesn't say anything~.

Some people thik that they are standing up for their Pride, their classmates, their Style or System, for their Family name, for Honor,for thier Rights. Whether you are about to be beat down or beat up, if you lie to yourself about why you are fighting, you can udo your pants or hoist up your hem, bend-over and expect F.U.B.A.R until you can taste it.

If you talk strong you're scared or confident or Arrogant. False confidence = stupidity (get your tastebuds ready). If you seem scared they'll intimidate you. Find the confidence in Yourself, in the understanding of the situation, in your recognition of their ability, in your environment...and that if you've calculated everything needed to deal with the situation like you'd like, that you missed something.

Sometimes fight with honor. Sometimes fight dirty. Sometimes fight for Honor. But don't lie to yourself about why you are fighting.

Murders might not be good fighters. They might be good strateticians and techies or mechs and incorporate the environment. But a A pure fighter can be glorious without the environment~, without killing(intentionally). A survivor uses the environment adventageously. Everybody might use psychology. A fighter can break the opponent without slaughtering the opponent~ These outcomes are relevant to the skill(s) of the people involved and the //moment in which any of it occures~.

Thank you for your tolerance.

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Tigerdragon]

A true skilled "fighter" is someone who can take and keep control of any volitile situation. Meaning, he/she can diffuse it if possible or if not, instantly take control of their own action as well as the attacker(s) and come out of it without serious injury.

Its all about control

Just my 2 cents

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

[Koing]

yeah. is sad. But I think its just in his nature to be passive. Also hes not very confident. Also he doesn't believe in his own TKD training so hes not going to be any good at all if he doesn't believe in himself to start.

"Bye 4 now; not 4 ever"

[Weapon-Maker]

Koing-At least your friend is smart enough to realize that TKD is useless on the street;alot of people (including myself-years ago) take TKD for 'self defense',because they don't know any better.It's an easy mistake to make if you're new to martial arts.I took TKD 22 years ago and I've yet to use any of it in a 'real' fight.TKD has the sorriest 'hand' techniques I've ever seen and this is the reason a good 'brawler' will destroy a tkd dude-every time.After tkd,I went on to learn western boxing,some judo,some joint-locks and breaks,hapkido and some silat and tai chi,along with learning many different kinds of weapons;I now feel confident in my ability to serve out an ass-whoopin',if need be,even if I lose a fight,I know I'll at least take a good chunk out of my opponent and he will not walk away without a scratch.I wasn't confident either when all I knew was tkd.

[nospam]

How do all of you judge a fighter's skill? ..What the hell good is a black belt with no actual fighting expeience?

A good question.

More and more people have more to lose if they get into fights (I do not differentiate between 'street' fighting to any other form of fighting sans padding). Society has changed, and more people see martial arts as a form of exercise and as a possible tool to achieve a state of wellbeing- to better themselves both mentally and physically.

To define a 'fighter's skill' as you put it, does not necessarily define a martial artists' skill. It is better to learn some martial skill from any martial art than to not. Granted, there are some individuals that are naturals and do not need nor have had the need to take lessons- boxing or otherwise, but there is a science behind all of the martial arts, and of practised and trained, will enhance one's movements.

I also believe that a good teacher need not necessarily had to have been in a multitude of fights beyond tournaments or sparring in-kwoon. A good teacher is rare, and a great teacher is all but extinct. The good teacher can guide the student through complex conditioning and offer personal insights through experience. Here the student usually strives to be like the teacher. A great teacher unites potential (no matter the student's aptitude) with philosophy. Therefore, a student becomes only as good as the style, and the style as good as the student. This is why gung fu has ebbed and flowed throughout its history. Invariably, the style becomes challenged by a student as the student had become challenged by the style.

nospam.

[Robinf]

Judgement of skill is subjective. What is "good" to one person may be nothing remarkable to another.

You can beat some of the people some of the time, but you cannot beat all of the people all of the time.

"Skill" to me is something that is gained through use. Win or lose, skill comes from doing. If a person claims to be a "fighter", then they had better be experienced in fighting. Whether or not they're any good is irrelevent. What works for one person doesn't always work for another.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[huff]

1st of all if u judge and u judge incorrectly u will lose. if u look at the size of the fighter and think him slow (if big or fast if small) u will loose. IF YOUR ARE GOING TO JUDGE A FIGHTER LOOK AT HOW HE WALKS, HOW HE MOVES INTO POSISION,LOOK INTO HIS/HER EYES FOR DETERMINATION. I HAVE ALWAYS SAID IN WAR OR IN A FIGHT IT IS ALWAY THE GUY WITH THE WILL TO LIVE, THE GUY HOW WILL DO ANYTHING IN HIS/HER POWER TO STAY ALIVE OR ON HIS OR HER FEET. S/HE WILL BE THE VICTOR OR THE MOST SKILLED FIGHTER.

[Dark Knight]

How much information you have doent alwys equate out to how ell you will do in the street. In my origional sytem I learned 80 different stikes. Only a handfull are actually effective. This goes back to its not the style that makes the difference but the fighter and the training.

TKD is not the best self defense style, but if you take a TKD guy who trains full contact for Olympic tournaments, he will do well in the streets. When I took TKD the biggest lesson I learned was that its not what you know but how well you know what you have.

Until you get out there and actually fight you never really get a feel for it. Instructors that fight only their students will not become great fighters (Even though their students may believe it). I have fought people in different styles and met top fighters in all styles and bad fighters.

Fighting may not be the goal of every martial artist, some like the ability to goin and point spar, some like to throw around their fellow students, some for health and some for the pure enjoyment of being in class.

If you are looking to become a better fighter you have to fight. there are plenty of people who would love to beat you around the room to leet you learn what doesnt work. Some of my gratest lessons have come from some great beatings I recieved.

Attitude is also developed in training. It took a couple rough sessions for me to understand this. When you face someone you have to have the right attitude to stand there and take someone down. I had a friend who fought alot, he told me "They were begging me to teach them a lesson". How polite of him. ;)

[BAI HE]

Well put D.K.