Grappling 101

[Brad Souders]

After about a month and a half of debate in my life trying to decide if i wanted to continue training or move on in life i decided to continue to train and see if i can't find the fire i've seemed to have lost in recent months. So as anyone who knows me one way to get my interest back is to share knowledge and get my perception senses back. So i figured every month or so i would share some of the grappling experiences, thoughts, and competitions so everyone can learn maybe a little more.

Today i think i'm going to look at positioning. This is the base for all grappling. If u can't out position the person u can not submit the person. The transition from position to position is what makes or breaks you when your in a match. So for basics for those new to the grappling arts i'll hit the four most common positions and try and help desribe my thoughts on each.

Mount- the most dominating position in MMA/street but maybe not so much in grappling. In MMA/street u can rain punches down without much return. In grappling thought its harder to seperate a limb from the body to try and straightin it out. Obviously all lower body submissions become almost impossible. So chokes and armlocks become the choice in the mount. I believe the mount in grappling is for one who wants to win by points more then submission.

Side Mount/ crossbody- This imo is a move productive position as far as submission then the mount. Your hips are free to move and more leg locks are avbailable. Having someone with a tight crossbody on you is like having a tree grow its roots through your hips. All the grapplers i've had the pleasure to roll with, I knew when someone side mounted me and i couldn't get guard back i was in for a long day. Due to my smaller hips controlling me is harder just due to space but a strong crossbody keeps even the most gumby person at bay. This position relies strongly on armlocks though leglocks and chokes can present themselves.

Back Mount- If your on top thank your opponent. If your on bottom i might as well just beat yourself. The most helpless position in grappling and mma/street. Though there are ways out of this position your gonna be either super tired or super beat when u do. Obiviously chokes are the dominate submission choice but leg and arm locks are possible. One tip more experienced grapplers will tell u is when on someone's back never cross your feet but slide your tops of your feet into the inner thight to avoid getting ankle cranked. Remember to hook arms up and don't ride to high when on your opponents back. The position beats the opponent not the submission.

Guard- I could write 80 pages and still not even touch basics on this position. I'm a little biased toward guard but when your as small as me and never wrestled it becomes second nature. This is the most offensive/defensive position. Fighting in someone's guard who feels like they are water with four arms is the most non-fun event i've ever felt. This position allows for so much individuality for the person who uses their bodies advantages here. U have people who can powert submissions or sweeps and people who can flow from submission to submission almost at will. Almost all submissions are possible but hip movement is key. Staying stationary on your back is like having sex with a girl who lays there. Like as in the more she moves the better it is the more you become active the more options become available.

Just remember one thing i always tell new people learning grappling. The submission finishes the position not the other way around.

Brad Souders

Shameless plug for my friend Lloyd Irvin, if u want great mental tips for not only fighting but life in general please sign up and check out
http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com

[Shaolin-Do]

Dunno if it was just the guys I was watching, but I watched the BJJ class last night, and they missed a ton of opprotunities for americana's, and several chokes as well... (most were in the top mount.)

Are there any lower body locks using your legs?

[Ford Prefect]

SD,

What level were they. If they were whites, then that would be expected. If they were more advanced, it's harder landing bent-arm locks like keylocks. Choking isn't the easiest thing from the mount since you are giving up a stable base much the time.

I dunno what you mean about lower body locks with the legs... In general, a majority of submissions are meant to isolate a limb with your entire body, so many locks are stabalized and isolated with the legs while your upper body provides the leverage for the lock.

[Ford Prefect]

Brad,

Ya can't forget knee on belly! :) I like using this to set up armbars and if we are in a gi, then chokes too.

[Shaolin-Do]

"I dunno what you mean about lower body locks with the legs... "
Joint locking their legs with yours.

I dunno what belt they were... its an informal class. they dont wear gi's or belts, and they train for free.

"Choking isn't the easiest thing from the mount since you are giving up a stable base much the time. "

Yeah, but there were quite a few missed opprotunities for ... D@mn... dont know the grappling terms... basically a cross face chicken wing from wrestling. :) and a few rear naked chokes missed... Is ok tho. Just commenting on what I watched, Im pretty sure they were amateurs. I plan on rolling with them next thursday anyhoo.

[Mutant]

Brad, glad to hear you didnt give up training.


In grappling thought its harder to seperate a limb from the body to try and straightin it out.

Do you mean that against a good grappler its harder to leverage yourself up due to risk of being armbarred?
I think i understand what you mean by that, if someone posts on you, you can take their arm. When you distinguish maa/street, from grappling, is it because maa/street doenst consentrate on the grappling skills or is it a rules issue?

Thanks for going over this stuff, its not something i train yet, but i want to understand it more.

peace.

[Merryprankster]

When you distinguish maa/street, from grappling, is it because maa/street doenst consentrate on the grappling skills or is it a rules issue?

It's both. I hate rolling with newbies when I'm SPECIFICALLY trying to work on something. They don't "do" the right thing, while leaving themselves open for about a billion other things. Beating them isn't a problem. Working on stuff is. Anyway, as an example, the common response to mount is to push up on the guy, from an untrained fellow. That's a recipe for getting arm-locked. They also tend to try and roll away and turn their backs. I expect neither of these responses from experienced persons. I consequently don't practice for them much-- I KNOW them, and can DO them, and they are instinctual, but I'm not thinking about it from that perspective, if it makes any sense.

2nd--there are certain things in sport grappling that I probably wouldn't try on the street. The helicopter/flower sweep is one. If the guy is heavy, you'll get your arm trapped if you miss and your face is unprotected...

[Ralphie]

A couple of remarks and questions:
I believe position is important in martial arts in general. Having a place to be gives a basis for strategy. In the cma I study, a superior position is on the outside of your opponent with their centerline closed. This allows you to block the knee and control the elbow. If you are in that generally safe position, you're in a superior position to attack.

Recently, at my bjj school, I had the opportunity to watch a visiting black belt from Brazil roll with some purple and blue belts. The most interesting thing was how slow and relaxed this black belt was. Not to say that other high ranked guys at our school don't exhibit this, but there was a definite difference. Do other bjj guys see this as well, and to what extent? For all the talk of "resisting opponents" on this board, I found it interesting how that definition is different when exposed to different skill levels.

[Merryprankster]

Recently, at my bjj school, I had the opportunity to watch a visiting black belt from Brazil roll with some purple and blue belts. The most interesting thing was how slow and relaxed this black belt was. Not to say that other high ranked guys at our school don't exhibit this, but there was a definite difference. Do other bjj guys see this as well, and to what extent? For all the talk of "resisting opponents" on this board, I found it interesting how that definition is different when exposed to different skill levels.

He was rolling with the Blues and Purples the same way they can roll with somebody less experienced. Slap him against another black belt, and I bet things change....

[Shaolin-Do]

MP- just curious, but what would your preffered escape/counter be from being mounted?

[Ford Prefect]

MP is correct. The black belt was just taking it easy and playing the other guy.

[Ralphie]

He was rolling with the Blues and Purples the same way they can roll with somebody less experienced. Slap him against another black belt, and I bet things change....

Sure, and he was training and not competing so the difference is apparent. However, I think that being relaxed to a great extent while training is an important method to building skill. It allows you to pay attention to details more. Do you see this type of training at your school, and to what extent?


MP- just curious, but what would your preffered escape/counter be from being mounted?
Not mp, but a combo of buck and roll to open the knee to elbow works best for me, and let's me work from guard instead of in someone's guard.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Ralphie

However, I think that being relaxed to a great extent while training is an important method to building skill. It allows you to pay attention to details more. Do you see this type of training at your school, and to what extent?


This is a requirement in any art. (go read the Tai Chi classics) It's also probably the best argument there is for a lot of sparring and "live" drills in your training.

The more you do it, the more comfortable you are doing it, the more relaxed you will be while doing it. That's why you last a lot longer at 26 then at 16 ;)

[Shaolin-Do]

"but a combo of buck and roll to open the knee to elbow works best for me, and let's me work from guard instead of in someone's guard."

Basically, buck, arm around neck, trap arm and leg to one side, roll over to that side?

[norther practitioner]

The more you do it, the more comfortable you are doing it, the more relaxed you will be while doing it. That's why you last a lot longer at 26 then at 16
What I need to work on.. I know it kind of comes with time, but sometimes making the consious effort to relax makes me more tense...lol... I'm trying to relax, I think I just need more time.:D

[Shaolin-Do]

"I'm trying to relax, I think I just need...***"
:eek:
:D
1st person to fill in the blank wins a prize!

[Ralphie]

Basically, buck, arm around neck, trap arm and leg to one side, roll over to that side?

Close. Don't reach your arm around their neck, as you'll get arm barred. The rest is correct. The roll part is a bridge on the shoulder to the trapped arm side then roll, too. Most people can get out of the trapped arm and post, but they have to spread their base (legs) as well. This allows you to get on your side, and thrust your knee through toward your elbow, which is preventing their base from squeezing tight. Switch to the other side do the same thing, and they're in your guard.

[Ford Prefect]

Sure, and he was training and not competing so the difference is apparent. However, I think that being relaxed to a great extent while training is an important method to building skill. It allows you to pay attention to details more. Do you see this type of training at your school, and to what extent?

Just because two people seem to be ripping and tearing at each other doesn't mean that they aren't relaxed and flowing. It usually only looks so "relaxed" when there is a big dicrepency in skill between the two people, so the more experienced guy can sit back and let things happen or just in a sense toy with his opponent. Kind of like a cat batting a mouse around after he caught it.

[Mutant]

true if he was that mellow there was a big difference in skill. same thing you just saw in the fight clip of asia toying with those 'mma' guys. put him in the ring with marvin and things would be a lot uglier. when you encounter real danger (for your level) things are not so eloquent.

[Merryprankster]

I prefer the knee and elbow. But my guard is probably my best positional asset.