Lies or other dubious information in martial arts.

[Starchaser107]

I found the following paragraphs wile scouring the web.
Does anything strike you as being a little off.

"Karate has a long history that goes back as far as 3000 BC. At that time there was a king in India who discovered the pressure points of man. He killed 100 slaves by sticking large needles into different parts of their bodies to locate the pressure points. Not long after this king died, Buddhism and the secret information about the pressure points were introduced to China. The Chinese used this information to further their study of karate (that they were developing at that time.) They were learning many of their techniques from watching and copying animals. For instance, the student who was learning from the tiger, would grow his fingernails long, and use them to scratch or claw. Other groups learned from the monkey, praying mantis, birds, and other animals. Later the Chinese introduced some of their discoveries of karate to the Okinawan's."


" The art of karate was kept in secrecy for about three centuries. Then in 1922, karate was introduced to the Japanese public by the Okinawan professor Funakoshi Gichin (1897-1955), and the art today is chiefly associated with Japan. Today there are names for the different systems of karate that are taught. One can be easily confused by thinking that names like "Kung Fu", "Tae Kwon Do" etc are names for different types of martial arts. These are names of the different types of karate that you can study. There are two basic types of karate that both men and women are taught today. They are classified as "sport karate" and "combat karate". A sport karate student learns the basic techniques of karate and usually competes in tournaments. He only has to make light contact with his opponent, by kicking or punching, to score a "point". He can be disqualified from the match if "hard" contact is made. The combat karate man is taught to make full contact with his elbows; therefore, he can not fight combat style in a sport karate tournament. He is also taught to build touch calluses on his knuckles and hands, and can usually break cement block with them."

talk about misinformation.

[Starchaser107]

Also regarding the roots of Tae Kwon Do.
As far as I am concerned Tae Kwon Do was invented last century, and the man that invented it is still alive today.
To me there is no similarity to the ancient art of Hworang-Do , which from what i've seen looks nothing like taekwondo.

As far as i know tae kwon do patterns are borrowed from shotokan.

Can someone qualified explain this for the benefit of everyone else?

[Kristoffer]

What a bunch of crap. from wich god forsaken site did you find this?

I'm not sure about TKD/Hwrang Do.. Never seen any HD in real life. Got any links?

[apoweyn]

Hwarangdo is a relatively new construct too, as I understand it. The brainchild of Joo Bang Lee. Historically, I think the hwarang were upperclass young men. And their education did include martial arts. But they weren't considered elite soldiers any more than a young man in British society would be considered an elite soldier for having to learn some fencing.

That's not to say that hwarangdo isn't a worthwhile art. But it's not ancient.


Stuart B.

[Vash]

Sounds familiar.

Back when I was with the American Tae Kwon Do Association, we were told this story about the origins of Tae Kwon Do. Here goes . . . nothing, really.

The art was originally called Tae Kwon, a style who's origins are unknown, but happened to share many characeristics with the linear Shotokan schools of ancient Okinawa. Anyway, there were two brothers, practitioners of this secret art. They went to battle. They beat 100 men, because the way of Tae Kwon taught them unity. So, they modified there art for non-weapon use, and renamed it Tae Kwon Do.

Never really explained why we had the General's pic in the school.

[Starchaser107]

http://www.bellbrook.com/bellbrookkarate/index.HTM

site relating to karate.

from what i've seen hwa rang do has a strong chinese influence to it..there are alot of traditional weapons in the style that resemble chinese weapons. and they use alot of circular movements... its pretty to watch, i've also seen them do grappling

hwarangdo in my opinion looks like karate-fu but callingf it that would be a disservice as it is a great art. (thumbs up)

looking for links.

[Starchaser107]

hwarang site
http://www.hwarangdo.net/

Ap, what you're talking about holds true to some of what is being passed off as ancient shaolin too. this by no means is style bashing, i believe that most if not all arts suffer from false history, and why not man made it in his quest for perfection , why not rewrite it to make it seem perfect. the truth is probably dissiminated and there might still be traces of it even where lies pervade.

[Kristoffer]

Hwarangdo is a relatively new construct too, as I understand it. The brainchild of Joo Bang Lee. Historically, I think the hwarang were upperclass young men. And their education did include martial arts. But they weren't considered elite soldiers any more than a young man in British society would be considered an elite soldier for having to learn some fencing.

That's not to say that hwarangdo isn't a worthwhile art. But it's not ancient.



good info!

Hwrang = blooming youth? :confused: That would fit the 'upperclass' bit I guess. What now came to mind is the resemblence of TKD and Hapkido . Does these 3 styles mold or are they completly seperate? I've seen no Hapkido except some TKD ppl adding some throws then claiming mastery of Hapkido etc. I'm gonna search for some links too. peace

[Starchaser107]

the above link should have clips

[Kristoffer]

http://www.hwarangdo.net/art/videos.php


this looks legit, havn't read it though
http://www.capital.net/com/gftkd/hwrdo.htm

[Ming Yue]

Taekwondo is very recent. In the mid-1960s TKD was officially recognized and sanctioned, coming from a bunch of other styles that developed after WW2.

It draws mainly from Japanese Karate. The name came fromA much earlier martial training style called Tae Kyon.

Hwarang-do happened in about 675 ad. Modern Taekwondo claims to draw its philosophy from Hwarang-Do.

-C

[Starchaser107]

___

ahm...an excerpt.


__________________________________________________ __"Shaolin is a very old pathway. Its origins reside in, first, the ancient tribes of the lands now known collectively as China.

Shaolin is the art of the common people. It is based upon natural movement - movements emulated from nature. It uses as its tools the elements of nature. It is based upon principles of the earliest lifeways of the people, lifeways which were split and transformed into Taoism and Confuscism, its "zen" method of thought - "now-be" - adopted and grafted to what is called Zen Buddhism. It uses as its weapons only the bare hands and the tools of primitive peoples and, later, the tools of the farmers.

Shaolin's physical origins are the lands of the North - the low mountains and hills - the tribal people there. From dancing tribal stories of the origins of the beginning of being, and dances describing and celebrating birth, storms, trees in wind, water flowing, fire dancing...all things of nature...the birth of a turtle, the awakening from sleep of a bear...so... These were dances of primitive people who were my ancestors very long ago. Shaolin's origins reside there in the very beginning.

It is said that when the usurpers came, long ago, my people were not ready. We were not warriors. Many of us died. Those who survived fled deep into the wilderness. There, we became warriors...over time. Never again would we not be prepared. Hence the ancient saying, "always prepared."

There are stories of great teachers who came - gods descended to help our learning to be warriors. There are two main versions of the story. One speaks of seven teachers, one of which was a servant to another of the teachers. There are mostly five main teachers, one who came later - the Mantis - and the servant. There is also the story of twelve teachers. But my own master said that these twelve were desciples of the first "god" teachers who came to help us."
______________________________________________

http://www.zentao.com/Shaolin/history.html

[Starchaser107]

Also a very entertaining story of bodhidharma. not as far fetched as others i've heard , although it still has it's moments.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/history_of_the_martial_arts/98612

[Starchaser107]

________________________________________________
'Drunken Boxing' techniques are based on the legend of the 'Eight Immortals' of the Taoist Sect from Chinese Mythology. Each of the techniques in the Drunken Set demonstrates an attribute of one of the Immortals. According to legend, they were invited to an undersea kingdom to a banquet, but all of them became intoxicated and rowdy. All the kingdom's guards attacked, and although the group seemed too inebriated to defend themselves, they created an impromptu style and defeated the guards with their new "Drunken" technique. They are respectfully: Liu Dong Bin, Lam Choy Wah, Ho Sen Ku, Cho Quat Kau, Cheung Guo Lo, Han Sing Tu, Han Chung Li and Tit Gwai Li. __________________________________________________ __

http://www.goldeneaglemac.com/drunken.shtml

ok the point i'm trying to make here is NOT that these arts are unacceptable. I'm just wondering if there's any co-relation to these myths and what actually happenned.
maybe as allegorical stories one can look on them with some sort of satisfaction and see the meaning. but whats the real truth?

[Former castleva]

From what little I know,HRD is somewhat similar to HKD.
For some reason,I hear that in hwa-rang-do,you are not allowed to train in other martial arts if you practice theirs.

[Kristoffer]

For some reason,I hear that in hwa-rang-do,you are not allowed to train in other martial arts if you practice theirs.

Many traditional teachers has the same mind set. Not just HRD players

[Former castleva]

Stay away from such bigots.

[Kristoffer]

sounds like a good advice

[Starchaser107]

To add to all of this. First of all I'd like to say that "loyalty to a school" in this sense is a double edged sword. It might seem biggoted, and quite often at time i'm sure it is just that. However there are reasons for people to have this mentality.
Many traditional masters have trained in other arts and have either merged them or teach more than one art. So the idea of cross training is not a new phenomenon, its as natural as chosing to eat chicken one day and beef another. (if you are vegan use soy or lentil).
The problem with an overly ambitious student crosstraining or switching loyalties in this manner , Is there are many schools that are like a sponge and are non-traditional in thier methods and see no problem with integrating other styles concepts and techniques into thier training.
Consider a cross Training student a vehicle for pollenization, or any simial analogy you may think of.
With this in mind , it is easy to see why some traditional masters do not wish thier students to venture to other schools.

there are other reasons also. such as , it doesnt suit a person to move from one thing to the next without any sort of proficiency or competence. and good teachers will be cautious of this type of thing.

fwiw, and this is genralizing, i think in certain instances it is more suitable for a student to cross train, and not so suitable for a teacher if his student cross trains. although some don't mind.