The 7th essential

[Ronin BaBu]

I study Eight Step, but learn some plum blossum along the way. I know a bunch of forms, and a couple of the 6 essentials. Actually only the first, zhaiyao Yiduan. I heard rumor of a 7th essential added in somewhere along the lines by songzide. I heard it is the only acrobatic form with lots of jumping and kicking. Does anyone have access to this form? or know anything about it?

[B.Tunks]

Ronin,

Looks like no ones going to answer you so...
I have seen this route played in China. I have seen different versions of it and as you said it is found in the meihua/taijimeihua branch of Tanglang. It is not very widespread in the west but certainly lots of people box the 7th route in China. Qixing Tanglang does not have a seventh route Zhaiyao as some Meihua practitioners also do not, acknowledging it as a later addition. You will note that 7th Zhaiyao is often not acknowledged in Taiwan either. There are people on here (Tainan) much more qualified to speak on that. People did not always speak or write of this 7th Zhaiyao and in the opinion of some it is quite recent or recently revived.
Who knows? Not me...
B.T

[Tainan Mantis]

I haven't learned this form

Zhang Dekuei of Mimen Mantis taught it to my shrfu.
He said to me, many years ago, that it was like a digong(ground boxing) form.

Zhang was of the Liang Hsuehsiang Taiji Mantis family.

Recently I examined an old handwritten manuscript from the same family of mantis.
It clearly lists 7th Zhai Yao as coming from Liang Hsuehsiang himself.
This most likely makes it the oldest Zhai Yao in the Taiji Mantis group.
At least this is the conclusion drawn from documents I have seen.
It is quite short.

By looking at the names of techniques it contains flamboyant titles for kicking techniques, one of which matches the 8 Step Mantis 4th Zhai Yao, Chuan Kung Kick.

It has been reported that some other schools have incorporated part or all of 7th zhai Yao into their 6th Zhai Yao.
I have seen no proof for this though and can not say for certain.

Furthermore,
In one version of Li Kunshan's complete manuscript it states that Mei Hua Lu is also called 7th Zhai Yao.

But, in Li's handwritten version(rare) it does not say this.
So, most likely this is a mistake by the student of Li's who copied down this manuscript.

[mantis108]

I would love to see the Quanpu of the 7th Zhai Yao.

In CCK TCPM, we don't have the 7th Zhai Yao. But there is one form called Ditanglang (Ground Mantis). This is one of the 3 forms that clearly mantis but I have no idea where their origins are and I found no connection to other TJPM so far.

There are also 2 other forms (Wushou Chui and Liuhe Jeung) that have ground elements. I have no certainty that these 2 are mantis original at all.

As for Ditanglang, it is quite short and acrobatic.

It would be great to have a comparison between 7th Zhai Yao and Ditanglang.

One person to talk to is definitely Ilya Profatilov. But he has not been on public forums for awhile. So...

Mantis108

[B.Tunks]

Also its strange that Meihua claims that Zhaiyao was taken from them, yet Qixing has never had a seventh Zhaiyao. Digong or Ditang was supposedly a strong component of Liang Xuexiangs Tanglang.

[mantis108]

I believe Chinese had a mindset that being original makes one stands out from the crowd. Having "trade secrets" is desirable and valuable. That's why a lot of Chinese, even their "disciples", are so hardpress for being the "original". Personally, having respect for the source and the intellectual property is important but not at the expense of benefiting the whole. Unfortunately, I am only of a minority. At the same time, I have my share of people saying "what you do aren't that special" kind of thing. That's alway something disappointing when you try to share something dear to you especial knowing the historic background of it and being discarded as "we do that and we know that too so what?"

Anyway the point is, my interest in the 7th Zhai Yao is the ground game from PM prespective, whatever style of PM that may be. Whether it was GM Liang XueXiang, Jiang Hualong, Sun YuChang or any other PM master, it doesn't take away that interest. If it does help to boarden PM and cover all possible bases of combat, I think that's something valuable for all PM stylists to look forward to. Of course, it is a huge bonus if it came from GM Liang. For me, I would love to know for certain that whether the ground game that mantis has, at the previous masters' time, is striking or grappling oriented. What techniques (new or old) are involved?

Warm regards

Robert

[B.Tunks]

You're right about the importance of 7th Zhaiyao for ground fighting tactics of TLQ. I agree on the relevance of all the components of Tanglang, regardless of apparent 'originality' or 'authenticity'.