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johnnyrambo
07-15-2001, 09:33 AM
im sick of BJJ and JJJ ppl saying theyve got the complete art.
Yes they win the other styles in competition, but thats in a RING with RULES, on the street no ones going to tap out!!! What they going to do hug their attacker until his mates kick their head in..LOL.
OK so you rush me going for the takedown, but what if i palm strike your nose bone up through your brain, your right the fight did go to the ground, but you aint getting up!!!

honorisc
07-15-2001, 01:00 PM
It is a risky attack. But they find it has value. While hitting them to discourage them seems technically correct, they have thought about that. It seems as though they might use intimidation too freeze you for a second or so. If they freeze you you won't get to use that loos so good on paper strike.If it works it works. If it doesnt it doesn't. Every moment is unique...evaluate the situation. Be aware of your would-likes. Address your intention. Make a decision. Whatever you decide canot be wrong for that intention, at that moment.~

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

Budokan
07-15-2001, 04:39 PM
By the way, the "nose bone in the brain" thing is a fraud. It cannot happen because there are no bones in the nose, only cartilege. This silliness got started somehow and took on the mythological proportions of relevant fact. Medically, and physiologically, it's impossible.

K. Mark Hoover

johnnyrambo
07-15-2001, 05:15 PM
but the type of strike is not important(even though it would result in knockout), i was just trying to say that one strike would end it if applied properly, ie a temple strike maybe.

Dark Knight
07-15-2001, 08:19 PM
Go fight a Ju-Jitsu guy. I have fought many and the idea of shooting in for the takedown works, but the average JJJ guy does not do it well. Its like anything, a lot of practice. There are many counters to the double leg takedown (Step back with one foot into a stronger stance) Wrap your arms around his neck as he grabs you.....

There are countters for everything. JJJ guys like Karate guys or Kung Fu guys work out with each other and believe that what they do will work on everyone. Find a friend and try sparring with them.

Weapon-Maker
07-15-2001, 09:29 PM
To tell ya the truth,I'm sick of hearing about bjj also,but let's face some hard facts and reality here :even though it's in 'the ring' and not 'the street',bjj has proven itself.One of the main reasons these guys win fights is because they have weightlifting routines that would rival a powerlifter's,in other words-their physical conditioning methods are superior to many other 'styles',so right off the bat you are facing an opponent who is more than likely stronger than yourself.(I don't care what you say about 'strength doesn't matter'-it matters to me).Secondly,these bjj guys are like Kamikazis-they don't care what you try to hit them with to stop them,they are trained to ignore the pain and continue the take-down.Now,think about this :do you really want to see what bjj can do on asphalt?--especially if that fancy kung fu move you just tried failed and the guy snatches you off the ground by both ankles? ouch. In my opinion,the only way to prepare for a bjj fighter is to learn some bjj yourself and incorporate it into what you already know.Some serious weightlifting wouldn't hurt either.A lot of martial artists have taken a hard hit to their pride because of bjj's record in the ring,because they have been taught by their sifus that the style they have spent years learning is the 'ultimate' in self-defense.It's time to wake up,snap out of it and face the reality :There is no 'complete' art.(of course,many will argue this-more power to 'em).

northstar
07-16-2001, 04:53 PM
Budokan - there sure is a bone in the nose, its Latin name is os nasale. You can feel it easily, it is the part of the nose that you cannot bend. But I don't know if there's any truth to that "punch it up in the brain" stuff.

jimmy23
07-17-2001, 02:05 AM
most bjj guys dont do a lot of weightlifting.

Only a fool hates the truth, but the world is full of fools
Karl Gotch

Dark Knight
07-17-2001, 07:04 PM
The reason BJJ is winning in the ring is beacause that style of tournament fits BJJ. Also the people training for the tournaments are not the average BJJ guy. Next the average BJJ guy gets out there and graaples, like the average Judo guy throws his friends around. If you are not training with force you are behind.

Strength and conditioning does play into it. When I went up for my third I had to fight a kickboxer. His fighting skills were not greater than mine but his endurance was way above mine. I thought I was going to die from a heart attack, now I run 4 times a week.

Cross train, it helps, but you dont have to find a JJ instructor, or a Kickboxing instructor. If youa are training hard now and have a few years experience, buy the tapes and pricatice them. be preprared.

And heres a plug, buy the Fighters Notebook.

rogue
07-18-2001, 05:17 AM
"By the way, the "nose bone in the brain" thing is a fraud. It cannot happen because there are no bones in the nose, only cartilege. This silliness got started somehow and took on the mythological proportions of relevant fact. Medically, and physiologically, it's impossible."

I disagree Budokan, let me demonstrate. Right now I'm ready to palm heel my own nose to prove this works. One two threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

SLC
07-18-2001, 03:39 PM
Rogue, Budokan ain't movin' or gettin' up. Yep, I think he's daid, Rogue.

See, there, Budokan. You do too got a bone there. :D

Can he hear me, Rogue? :confused:

Can eat with either hand. (But becomes moody when not fed regularly.)

Budokan
07-18-2001, 04:50 PM
Uhn. Snerk--! Whuh?-- Hey, I don't think....oh, God you didn't shove the bone deep enough! I'm still alive and the pain is excruciating!

Hit me again! Finish the job! HIT ME AGAIN!

HIT ME AGAIN!!

Kill me...[weeping]...just kill me, please...

And, tell Rolls I love him, okay....?

K. Mark Hoover

Armbreaker
07-19-2001, 01:04 AM
First of all the reason BJJ is effective is because people like you dont know how to fight on the ground. I could take anyone of you down and snap your arm or choke you out within a few minutes. You say youll bite and scratch because its a street fight well im going to do the same **** thing. By the way most BJJ peeps dont use heavy lifting routines they concentrate on callisthenics which provide strenght but dont bulk you up. Yes BJJ has proven itself in streetfights. Ive seen it used. Are you going to keep fighting after I snap your little arms or choke u out? BJJ practitioners train for reality fighting!!!!!!!

rogue
07-19-2001, 04:42 AM
Ow cwap. It dibint kill me. Bu it di bwake my bweak. When I came too there wa bwud aw owver the pwace. And I awso got two bwake eyes!!!

Dwat you Boowdookan! :mad:


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

Budokan
07-19-2001, 05:51 AM
Armbreaker, blow it out your a$$. In a streetfight, fella, there won't be any tapping out.

Anyway, you sound like another incarnation of Rolls. Or a Rolls wannabe, which is even worse. :rolleyes:

K. Mark Hoover

chokeyouout2
07-19-2001, 06:20 AM
I don't think it's "Rolls after death".New BJJ flamer that probably dosen't EVEN TRAIN.

your friend, choke

p.s.Where's Art?

Budokan
07-19-2001, 02:03 PM
That's all we need. Yet another -slime who DOESN'T TRAIN yet thinks he knows all there is to know about the MA. :rolleyes:

K. Mark Hoover

Anarcho
07-19-2001, 03:06 PM
Well, I recently started training in Brasilian JiuJitsu, and I think I may have some valuable insight to share with you all. You see, while I have the utmost respect....Ugh...SOMETHING HAPPENING TO BRAIN....MUST TROLL...MUST TELL ONLINE COMMUNITY THAT BJJ RULEZ!!!! U R ALL LOSERS!!!!!!! BJJ IS THE BEST I WILL BREAK UR ARM IF U DONT LIKE IT TUFF COZ I AM BJJ TRAINING COOL TYPE GUY!!!!!

Soup is good food.

SLC
07-19-2001, 06:52 PM
Aww, maaan. They got Anarcho.

They just pulled his brain out through his nose.

Now he ain't got no brain, none at all an' he's still talkin' an' shoutin' all that crap, and he ain't got no brain at all. :eek:

Can eat with either hand. (But becomes moody when not fed regularly.)

SLC
07-19-2001, 07:11 PM
Rogue, Budokan

We can't let him go on like this, can we? Poor ol' Anarcho. :(

He'd want to be dead if he knew he didn't have no brain and was spoutin' all that crazy BJJ bu11****. :p Its a long shot, him bein' n Australia an all, but I think we ought to plug 'im.

Can one of you get a bead on 'im with all that sprawlin' and rollin' he's doing now?

Can eat with either hand. (But becomes moody when not fed regularly.)

Dark Knight
07-19-2001, 07:47 PM
"First of all the reason BJJ is effective is because people like you dont know how to fight on the ground. I could take anyone of you down and snap your arm or choke you out within a few minutes. "

Going to the ground is not the best decision. Even the gracies have said this. What about the guys buddy who jumps in when you go to the ground, its a bad place to be.

Why are you assuming that everyone here has no knowledge of being on the ground, some forms of Kung fu deal with it.

Also its not that easy to take another trained fighter down and put them in an armbar in the street. too many variables. i have fought JJ people before and they have a heck of a time taking me down.

Your comment reminds m of a TKD instructor who told his students that BJJ people have never seen a roundhouse kick and do not know how to defend against it. Dont assume what people know.

Armbreaker
07-20-2001, 03:20 PM
Do you guys realize how few trained fighters there are out there. Most the people I've been in confrontations with are thugs. They have know idea
of takedowns or submissions. And going to the ground isnt always a choice. As I said before I train in Muay Thai because I know standup is important. You could say peope wouldnt tap out if
I put them in a submission but theyd end up with there arm or leg broken and I would say that it would hinder there fighting ability. Lets just face the facts here fighting multiple people is stupid especially in a street situation with so many variables. Id run before Id fight like that.

Budokan
07-20-2001, 07:46 PM
I agree. We need to plug Anarcho and put him out of his (ours) misery. Okay, I've got my 9mm in my hand. It's gonna be a long ways for a head shot from Mississippi, but I'm aiming for his medulla oblongata. With any luck, it'll spray out in a pink mist when the slug hits him....

K. Mark Hoover

Anarcho
07-20-2001, 09:57 PM
*performs double-leg on bullet*

Oh baby! This stuff really does work!

Soup is good food.

Guardian
07-26-2001, 05:33 PM
Armbreaker....

Don't even bother mate.

Guardian
07-26-2001, 05:37 PM
Anarcho

Do you have a piece on you right now ? What happens when you need to reload ?
What if you do not want to kill or severly injure the guy who is attacking you.

Cops are armed and trained yet do you think they can go around shooting people left right and centre...oh wait they will use the Bulchit foo techniques instead..

No what they can use is proven methods and training and gues what it aint what your advocating. you sure your an Aussie, you seem more like a New Zealander.

halfling
07-27-2001, 03:44 AM
Hey guys, since we've kept this nose smashing thing going on for so long I thought I might sneak this in here. Honestly, who in their right mind would go for a takedown with their head up. I know when I go for a leg takedown or charge anyone at all that I keep my face down do avoid and blows to the face. I mean really, are people stupid enough to charge face first? If so they deserve to get their nose attacked. Thought I'd add my two cents. Thanks.

Anarcho
07-27-2001, 03:06 PM
"Anarcho
Do you have a piece on you right now ? What happens when you need to reload ?
What if you do not want to kill or severly injure the guy who is attacking you."

Hmm...Good point, Guardian, but what happens if a cabbage hits you in the head at high speed and then a guy kicks you in the groin? Do you know how to calculate the gradient of the tangent to a parabola, given its equation in Cartesian co-ordinates? Or maybe you think space is composed of nothing more than the relative positions of existent objects...In that case, what about time?

You know, postmen post letters for a living. They know when and where to put the letters, they don't just go around throwing them at people. It's a big deal to post letters in this day and age, and you need to think about the implications.

Are you sure you're an Aussie? You sound more like someone who just posted a response to me that has nothing to do with any post that I have made or ever will make. When the doctor told you to take those anti-psychotics, I think he did it for a reason.

Cheers.


:)

Scott
07-28-2001, 06:41 AM
Whats your favorite color Skittle? Mine is orange.

-Scott

"Life is hard, but so am I." -- The Eels.

IcedSamurai
07-28-2001, 07:29 AM
Blue :D

--------
Come, visit me and my floating island of serenity.. the Kingdom of the Winds..

Guardian
07-28-2001, 12:13 PM
Yes very pretty...

What If, What If ya ya ya...what if you actually knew something about fighting...oh then we would not be having this conversation.

How was Wank-fu lessons ?
Your instructor tell you some moves he saw after watching Bruce Ling in "Way of the Deadle Fish".

Kym

Guardian
07-28-2001, 12:17 PM
Anarcho

Lots of things go over your head don't they.

What state you in mate ?

ged
07-28-2001, 02:02 PM
do australians have to fight each other?

one thing i suppose, if theres a challenge, neither of them will be f*cked getting off their couch and going to fight.

and no more calling anarcho a kiwi. no man deserves that.

Anarcho
07-28-2001, 02:51 PM
Guardian, (sarcasm will occur after the termination of this parenthetical remark, continuing until the next full stop) I'm sorry, that was my fault. (insult contained within this sentence - I am insinuating that you are stupid) I posted a response in which I was making a point that probably required an IQ of at least 80 to understand. I'll be more literal in future.


From here, response is serious.

--->Your response did not seem to follow from my remarks. I made two light-hearted posts, one of which commented on the apparent predisposition of BJJ guys to troll online. The other was a humorous reference to performing a double-leg takedown on a bullet. The humour involved was, in the first instance, in portraying a caricature of a frequently encountered online personality. In the second instance, it was the absurdity of the situation which provided me, if not you, with some amusement. Perhaps you could point out exactly what I said that led you to act like a moron...?

I'm in Victoria, how about you?

:rolleyes:

tnwingtsun
07-29-2001, 02:29 AM
"Id run before Id fight like that"

HA!,I thought you would chase an arm!


Anarcho

ROTFLMAO!!!!!


:D :D :D :D :D


Are NZ ppl bad??

jimmy23
07-29-2001, 03:09 AM
Budo kan, where is Richland? I live in Biloxi, train in DIberville, under Johnny Dixson and Rich Clementi . It s at Rob Parhams place, the Combat Acadamy. Feel free to stop by and observe or train anytime. Just dont use the gun :)

Only a fool hates the truth, but the world is full of fools
Karl Gotch

Guardian
07-30-2001, 04:48 PM
Anarcho,

I like food...do you ?

It is hard to know what is real and what is not on this forum. I mean I seldom post a reply, but I thought, what the heck and why not so here I am.
Yes there are lots of BJJ Trolls, but there are also a helluva lot of Kung Fu trolls out there. Atleast the BJJer has more foundation in truth when it comes to actual fighting and self defence.

I only get annoyed at these posts and other's more for the sake that alot of these instructors teach the general public such movie based cultural techniques that are found in Kung Fu's.
Would you learn to drive from a guy who has never owned, seen or driven in a car >?
Yet in the world of Self Defence the avg. person assumes that a BB or a 'master' KNOWS how to fight and how to teach that.
This is why I seem somewhat serpic in this thread, regarding your rhetoric. Sadly online it is all opinion and boast. So Ill endevour to talk about Grandma Hilga's cooking recipe's


Im from Sth Aust mate.

I hope I have clarified myself in someway, though I doubt.

PS. why do you use IQ's as though they mean anything ? all they assume is general knowledge, and basic understanding of theoriical mechanics. For the most part it has been my knowledge that Intelligence is specific as well as being the application of knowledge and not neccesary the re-call of it.

Kym

Guardian
07-30-2001, 04:54 PM
Anarcho.
Where do you train ?

Anarcho
07-30-2001, 05:59 PM
Hehe...I'm not sure that that made any sense, but I'm not sure that I care, either.

Guardian
08-01-2001, 12:33 PM
:) Well we both are masters at making posts that make little or no sense.

Salma Hayek, Liz Hurley or Angelina Jolie ?

MADDRAGONFLY
08-01-2001, 04:37 PM
I train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and in my honest opinion there is NO complete "style" of fighting. Every art is lacking a mulititude of technique that another posses. All of us would benifit from studing more than just one art.

If a striker can keep the fight at striking distance were he is the expert then he will win.

If the grappler can keep the fight close range were he is the expert then he will win.

If you fight a whole gang then you probably will loose.

Did any of you guys see the John Marh vs Kung Fu master video?

To be a warrior.....<img src="http://bjj.org/figures/choke-anim.gif"width=35 height=45>>YOU MUST TRAIN!!

MIKSANSOO
08-01-2001, 08:00 PM
kung fu master??? it is more like vs. guy.

"you can take my life, but not my confidence"
Jimmy H. Woo

Dark Knight
08-01-2001, 10:25 PM
"Yes there are lots of BJJ Trolls, but there are also a helluva lot of Kung Fu trolls out there."

Worth reposting.

All styles have their trolls.

Anarcho
08-02-2001, 02:34 PM
Show me a kung fu troll on this board. I don't mean someone who's ignorant of the effectiveness of other arts, there are plenty of them. I mean someone like Ralek, Mild7, Karate4Life, etc. Someone who's just screwing around with the gullible folks on the board and taking up bandwidth.

MADDRAGONFLY
08-02-2001, 04:11 PM
It is also my opinion that it is easier to get a takedown than a knockout but I guess thats why I train Jiu-Jitsu. I do plan on training some Muay Tai and western Boxing and I'm learning some wrestling right now as well.

To be a warrior.....<img src="http://bjj.org/figures/choke-anim.gif"width=35 height=45>>YOU MUST TRAIN!!

MixedMartialArtist
08-26-2001, 09:04 PM
That's why you should train as much as possible in several styles, so you'll be prepared. I may not be an expert striker or an expert grappler, but (in theory) I will have enough knowledge in both to do some damage at either range.

BAI HE
08-26-2001, 11:43 PM
Well put Sir!

nobody
08-27-2001, 11:20 PM
however it is quite rare that it happens that way, so your better off not trying that. as for armbreaker and budokan, we do not have to flame people to have a discussion. i am aware that you would be a little offended a.breaker, because you practice it and you feel you have to defend it. hell i would feel the same way. but im sure you could find a less...threatening way of saying so. and budokan, you shouldnt be surprised considering you are among other people bashing his style, you would be offended if he did the same to you. personaly my opinion stems from a lack of experience in any kind of jujitsu. if it works it works. if it doesnt it doesnt. and it doesnt necessarilly work on the same people. so instead of going "oh it will work, and you wouldnt be able to do this and that, cuz i could do this." why dont we focus on the discussion at hand by giving some valid FACTS instead of subjective opinions.

Aramus
09-28-2001, 04:28 PM
A complete art in my mind is one that teaches hard and soft techniques/forms/etc. They teach not only how to hurt but how to heal. They teach empty-hand and weapons techniques. If a style does that, it is complete, if not...it isn't.
BJJ isn't a complete art. It is great one-on-one from what I've seen. I don't seen any advantage over JJJ but, I don't have enough background to state anything more definative.


A Mosquito, somebody hit me with a mosquito.

Vankuen
09-28-2001, 06:31 PM
Hey guys, Its been my experience that where ever boxing (stand up fighting...) doesn't work, my BJJ does.

There is a guy in one of my classes, who has a lot of experience in muay thai. I currently train with him and teach him wing chun kuen. He is about 190 pounds of pure muscle, standing at about 5'8". So you can imagine his bulk. But he also has good speed, which rivals my own. SO when sparring, I get hit with some good shots, mostly in the body. But one day I was showing him some BJJ, and taught him a takedown where he would end up in the side mount on top of me. Well he decided to mess around a bit and try to keep me there...using his muscle. Soon thereafter, I distracted him with a reverse key lock, while slipping into a guard position, and then locked in a gullotine choke around his neck and used my locked legs as leverage. It ended there. All his strength, all his power, were useless at that point. And he tapped out before passing out. (it suprized the hell outta me too!)

Point being to that tid bit of a story, some things work better with others. I may be able to tear someone up boxing (again loose term for general striking arts) but then lose terribly doing groundwork with the same individual, and then I might find that using BJJ with one person is much more successful then boxing him.

But one thing Ive noticed, fighting gung fu sifus, muay thai fighters, and BJJ stylists, is that when someone is pressuring you to the point where you can't cope with the onslaught, a good takedown helps. And the shoot, when done properly, isnt telegraphed and done from across the room. Just an FYI there.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

Kaitain(UK)
10-01-2001, 01:15 PM
People who are hurt but not out try and grab hold of you - if you can only fight at striking range then this can be an issue.

A guy who can't strike but can grapple has a better chance than the guy who can strike but not grapple - striker misses once the grappler is on him and it will end. The striker has to lay the grappler out asap.

Anyway that's old news.

What I disagree with is that there is a need to fight on the ground - stand-up grappling makes more sense. Better still - being able to strike whilst stand-up grappling is one of the best ways to street-fight.

BJJers kid themselves that '90% of all streetfights go to ground' the same way that Kung-Fu guys kid themselves that 'grapplers couldn't cope with my deadly palm strike'.

What's wrong with the above statement? It's plain ignorant to think that there are no BJJers that can strike and know that to stay on their feet is paramount in a 'proper' fight. Likewise it's ignorant to believe that Kung-Fu stylists:
a) believe that they always can stop someone taking them down
b) know nothing about grappling
c) have blind faith in Iron Palm strikes to the spine when someone shoots in

I've been on these boards for a while now and this argument never changes - it'll never be resolved. If I beat a BJJer in a fight it just proves that I was better than him. If he beats me then it just proves that he cheated :P. We're all too biased to be objective about it.

There have to be new areas to explore on BJJ vs CMA. Please, God.

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

toddbringewatt
10-01-2001, 03:03 PM
Interesting stuff.

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

mwatson
10-28-2001, 11:24 AM
What really boils my blood is the way we look down on either grappling arts or striking arts. The reason we do this is because of those idiots on both sides that say "MY ART IS BETTER THAN YOURS". GROW THE F*CK UP!. I swear that half of you are 13. You sure as hell sound like it. I have done both and both are great. Why is it so wrong to learn something different. Whats keeps a kungfu guy from learning Grappling arts like BJJ, or wrestling is not that he hates the art, but the fact that when he thinks of the art all he hears in his head is those BJJ Loonytoons saying "KUNGFU SUCKS! MY BJJ is BETTER". Likewise for the BJJ or wrestling guys, they think of taking some kungfu, but all they hear in their heads is those Kungfu looneytoons guys saying "BJJ SUCKS! My Kungfu is better".
If you are saying these things then you are inexperienced and should not waste our time in reading your incompetent post. Every situation I have been in has been life or death. I studied BJJ and I now study Wing Chun. I studied BJJ because I know that alot of fights can go to the ground, and whats wrong with knowing how to fight on the ground.(When you are there then what goes through your head is not "MY STYLE IS BETTER" bullsh*t, but "I wish I had spent less time trolling against BJJ and spent more time studying it."). Likewise with BJJS who get their butts kicked wihout even getting a chance for a takedown. They say "Maybe I should have learned a little more about the standing arts rather that trolling and I would have not got my lights punched out.".

We need to get past this BJJ vs Kungfu BS. The only thing that keeps it going is the immature little armchair fighters who read all the past archair fighters post and believe it. Go work in a maximum security jail for several years where there is a mixture of every kinda of fighter, attitude, body type, and you will see that sometimes striking is best and others grappling is best. I have been in plenty and found out from "EXPERIENCE" that you need both, because while standing and striking you can slip and fall, and while down on the ground you can get your head kicked in by onlookers. I fought a guy 5 minutes. He was a strong guy that could wrestle. I knew some BJJ so I was able to defend myself, but however the fight was not ended on the ground, but ended by some good punches and uppercuts. Another fight I was in did in fact end on the ground with me using a guilatine choke on the guy. Thats just two out of many. These were not "Sparring" matches, but "REAL LIFE".

GROW UP, QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME TROLLING, and LEARN HOW TO GET ALONG and THAT THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN FIGHTING.!!!!!! :D

yin lion
10-28-2001, 05:37 PM
You know why I don't know how to fight on the ground? no. I thought so do you know me personaly do you call me on the phone? you phoney. just think if you were to go and try a take down on me I'd waite till you dove for the leggs and side steep you silly ass then just for that comment kick you in the ass. no I'm for real I'd kick you in the butt real hard. No hard feelings :eek: just know that if you think I'll stand and let you pull me down your dumb as durt. I weight 200# and can move fast I got good rooting and if you think size matters I got a little to toss around. eather way you think I still would kick you in the ass and them I may kneel in your back and show you a few ways I could break your arm. silly sap :rolleyes:

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage

yin lion
10-28-2001, 05:41 PM
but ya your right I think the only thing dumb about the striker grapler thing is that most and mind you most CMA have grappling in them and if people try and try them over and over and retry then a strictly grapler has no chance you know what he does before he does it. and not to mention how to defend against it

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage

KnightSabre
11-01-2001, 11:17 AM
I wasn't going to reply but reading some of these posts I think I'm gonna have to.

Not even sure where to begin.
Ok I've trained in a few styles including Wing Chun (2 years under world champ Steven Zippliers),Northern Long Fist and 5 Animals (4 and a half years).I really enjoyed them but I was still searching.

Now I train Muay Thai/JKD and BJJ/Submission Grappling.
I've been training MMA for about 5 years now.

I think that the striker vs grappler argument is stupid.The truth is you need to learn both.
Just think how well rounded you will be if you can fight at any range,striking,clinching,and the ground.

I sence that the kung fu guys feel threatened by BJJ.Apart from guys like Ralek shoving BJJ in your faces I really think that deep down inside you feel threatened.Instead of feeling like this and saying how your tiger rake,or snake strike to the eye could stop him from taking you down,why don't you combine it with your kung fu?

I have 3 friends who still train at the kung fu school that I trained at.They have been there like 8 almost 9 years.There standup fighting is good,but when they decided to come to me for private lessons in grappling they were amazed.They then told me that it's a different world on the ground and that the chin na they had learnt didn't work in most of those situations.

After about 6 months of privates they started to beat the guys 3 or 4 years ahead of them,they also told me that once they got one of the seniors to the ground the seniors didn't have a clue what was going on.

I'm not saying that kung fu is bad,in the same sence I sparred (full contact) against a pro Heavy Weight boxer,he hits like a mule and he was definately dominating the standup ,but once I got him on the ground it was so easy for me to avoid his punches and to put him into submissions or hit him.Why cause just like the kung fu guys he didn't know how to fight on the ground.Where is this guy now?He supplements his boxing with BJJ and is gonna be a real bad ass one of these days.
He also happens to be a bouncer and has told us on numerous occasions how he used grappling to defeat guys on the street.

I've had a NHB match (no biting,groin strikes,eye gouging) with a 2nd degree Ninjitsu instructor.I won the match in 35 seconds by using a slam take down and mounted punches,I think if I had tried to beat him standup the fight would have taken alot longer.

It also bewilders me when guys say "but on the street you won't tap".
Tapping is done to stop one of many things.
Arm bar - your arm will be broken.
Key Lock - Your shoulder will be dislocated.
Any choke - You will pass out and be kicked to death.
Ankle lock - Your ankle will be snapped.
Knee bar- Your knee will be popped.
Neck Cranks - tap out or expect serious damage.
Kimura - Shoulder dislocation.

BJJ is not perfect,no style is.
Thats why you combine two good styles to make a formidable combination.

I do however from my experience and from what I've witnessed believe that as a singular style BJJ is the best fighting style there is.The only guys that consistently beat BJJers are MMA.No single style has consistently beaten them.

Anywayz enough of my ranting,I respect all arts but I do believe that style has alot to do with how well you can fight.

"You're Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I'm Arround You'll Always Be Second Best See".

jun_erh
11-02-2001, 06:10 AM
amen to that. long range, close range, joint locks, takedown, grappling, it's all different ranges of the same thing. I also don't know if there is a truly ideal setting for testing a style. That is, you've got the street, which often involves self defense against a drunk person or brawling (artless type fighting). Then there is the sort of fighting that is really sort of sparring w/ out pads.
"Rock you in the face , stab your brain wit'cha nose bone"- Mobb Deep 93

The Willow Sword
11-04-2001, 08:25 AM
in a street fight these days it seems that everyone wants to go to the ground and hug each other in this psuedo fight club manner connecting in with thier repressed ****sexual tendencies,,,but the fact of the matter is that if i am on the street and some punk wants to throw? guess what? 3 step method,,1 draw 2 point 3 shoot. Thats Reality kiddos,,everything else is just hollywood, baby. juuust hollywood.
Many Respects, Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.