Traditional is no good? Forms are no good?

[honorisc]

What are you doing to share what you learn in reality fighting or streetfighting or streetfights?

Did you get some valuable lessons or stuff you think is important for surviving a fight (or dominating or keeping from getting dominated), or are you just going to do for yourself and die, not caring to pass on what you learned?

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Martial Joe]

Shut up!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[honorisc]

How exactly did you mean that? "Shut up!"

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Sharky]

You are gay.

My anus is superior™

[SevenStar]

I can see your point, but in that case, you pass it on through training. Forms aren't really passing on YOUR knowledge anyway. you didn't make the form, so you aren't passing on y our knowledge, but the knowledge of those who made the system.

-SevenStar©
Step right up and get it -- whoever wants [defeat]
Come not between the dragon and his wrath...

[Martial Joe]

Rolls takes it in the bum...

It kinda ment that...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[honorisc]

How can you pass on your training?

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[jimmy23]

the same way they do in boxing, you train with people, and coach them, and share knowledge.

Only a fool hates the truth, but the world is full of fools
Karl Gotch

[omegapoint]

There is no "Holy Grail" technique or art for self preservation. Diligence and dedication to learning the proper basics is the key. Forms allow us to simulate some fighting situations,but then again real fighting is not contrived. There is much posititive knowledge to be gained from forms and they can help you to learn the proper application of a myriad of techniques and stances, after all no two kata are exactly alike. It also teaches focus and execution without regard to external or internal distractions (at least it should).

Getting use to contact is a big factor in being able to handle yourself on the street (I would suspect). If you are struck or attacked in some other way, and hesitate, then you probably have lost the fight already. Some form of contact is required to get yourself acclimated to pain. This is a mental as well as physiological sensation, and often doesn't signify a serious injury. The "feeling" is what causes inappropriate analysis of the attack, not necessarily physical damage.

I do feel that some sparring is required especially early on, to get the practitioner use to the idea of "jumping off the high dive". Two-man drills/fighting sets with real contact (albeit controlled), are a minimum requirement.

Observe, learn, evaluate and interpret reality for yourself. Keep training and you will gain new insight into these things. When you have YOUR answers then it's time to teach, because that is when one truly begins to LEARN. Later....

[jimmy23]

well said omegapoint

Only a fool hates the truth, but the world is full of fools
Karl Gotch

[honorisc]

"...the same way they do in boxing," or Kung-Fu (classes), "you train with people, and coach them, and share knowledge."

Yet, there are standard things that are coached. These standards while variable in application (as are techniques of forms), have general parameters which are followed to have that particular technique or combination~(as do forms).

I'm getting the impression that at least several people think that there is no getting used to contact in forms training amoung other things.

"It also teaches focus and execution without regard to external or internal distractions (at least it should)."

I thought it would be more at, forms allow focus and execution in spite of external or internal distractions. And perhaps that thhat is what it should do, more-so.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Budokan]

Guys, ignore this rat-f*cker. He's not even a GOOD troll, and frankly I resent that. I only want good trolls on KFO, not amateurs. ;)

K. Mark Hoover

[oldwolf]

Hi OP,
Good reply, however I think that what most people understand by 'sparring' bears little relevance to combat or reality Do. Sparring in essence is an agreed exchange of controlled techniques by consenting partners,(now that sounds sexual), to my mind, this is only an exercise in timing, distancing and perhaps getting used to contact, with the added adrenalin dump when you spar with the animal in your dojo or kwoon. But that is all it is.

If your focus of training is survival in street encounters, then you are probably better off with 'real' one step / two step set ups, with the appropriate escalation of speed, power and aggression. Of course as you know these exist in most traditional systems, unfortunately the emphasis on sport MA means that training methodologies such as Randori often takes a back seat.

Train hard, train soft, train very hard but always train. Just my take. :D

"And the crowd called out for more"

[fiercest tiger]

no know...shut the fark up! turrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[omegapoint]

Old Wolf: Whas'sup, brother? How's training? How's life treating you? I hope well.

Budo': Mr. Zero Know better be careful. He may be deep-sea fishing for Tuna and latch on to a Great White Shark bigger than his vessel!! Regardless, the unknowing need a few opportunities to change their misperceptions. Forms are very much about focus but only if you don't have ADHD.

Be careful of what you ask for and who you ask. You just may learn something about the reality of things! Later, and happy training....

[Lost_Disciple]

Man, it's sad to see people lambasting an innocent guy for trolling, when they so eagerly play the pawn for trolls the rest of the time.

If you don't get No_Know's posts, then maybe you need an English class. It's convoluted grammar, but most of it's still correct. I like his posts because the eccentricities in the grammar often lead to interesting double meanings.

Don't you flamers have something better to do?

No_Know-
In answer to your question- I think in order to fight well, you need to fight. I think forms are a pretty good textbook to look back to, in order to find new techniques and counters. I also think they teach you to move & fight in a manner consistant with your style (sometimes). They help build strength, speed, flexibility, endurance, and technique. They also are supposed to develop chi (I don't have much experience with chi so I can't comment). If you're ultimate goal is to be able to fight in the street, going all out, with no rules, obviously this is not so easily done. Instead, however, I recommend sparring in the various different levels of contact, with the vast assortment of rules- find one set of rules that fits what you want to use and go with them. There are many other training methods to build up different aspects of your fighting however, I still think the best way to become a good fighter is to fight.

Passing on the art? I don't know much yet, so I can't really do that. I know that if I ever did reach the level of "sifu", I'd use some of my ideas; namely:
-picking out the hobbyists from the ones who truly want to inherit the style,
-encourage the students to use their knowledge, go out there and spar/fight; perhaps once they reach a certain skill level.
I'd do my best to relate my knowledge and experience, while making sure it is still based in physical perception, and not "over-their-heads" theory. I'd probably do quite a lot to set up exchanges with people of different styles so that they can at least form a basis of knowledge on how other styles fight. I still got a LOOOOONG way to go though.

Just the opinion of an ignoramus.
.

[honorisc]

It tends to be good to be aware of a person's thinking. Thank you Lost_Disciple.

Also, thank you, all others, for showing me your thinkings. Martial Joe, Sharky, Budokan, fiercest_tiger...

" Forms are very much about focus but only if you don't have ADHD."-Omegapoint

"...forms allow focus and execution..."-No_Know

And I would think that no matter what, forms could be considered to be about focus. It seems that a person with ADHD might make strides in overcomming ADHD by practicing forms.

Omegapoint, thank you for the sarcasm. How did I not say forms are about focus? Also, veiled threats or promises or snickering are likely not welcome; however they might be entertaining and or or enlightening~.

"...but then again real fighting is not contrived."

A real fight is contrived of a (several) moment(s) of uncertainty in which things occure. Some-such.

Sharky, I Am a happy person.

"I can see your point, but in that case, you pass it on through training. Forms aren't really passing on YOUR knowledge anyway. you didn't make the form, so you aren't passing on y our knowledge, but the knowledge of those who made the system."

All training passed on might not be "YOUR" knowledge~, But I seem to have an audience in Street/Reality Fighting Forum who think that forms--a systemized way for passing on techniques, is something they don't do.

"... you train with people, and coach them, and share knowledge."

jimmy23 is smart enough that jimmy23 was evading what I considered to be The answer. What you train people is systemized--the people before you learned it, the people before them learned it ... The same is with forms. Where as in jimmy23's show, they modify for what works better. I'm thinking that these modifications have occured within decades as opposed to centuries if not the milenea over which forms Modify. After a few centuries a person might tend to get a lot of it right. So it pretty much stays the same (except for non-transferance of information, partial learning, lack of practice...).

SevenStar, it was my thinking that at least some of the people in supposedly forms free thingies, use forms (combinations). And so I asked about passing on their training. If they don't use a systemized method (FORMat) of passing on techniques/methods/principles, whether broken up into small groups or steps of (learning), or many of them strung together; then, how does that information get passed-on. I thought whatever the answer, it could be noticed to be related to forms.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[This message was edited by No_Know on 08-06-01 at 11:02 PM.]

[This message was edited by No_Know on 08-06-01 at 11:05 PM.]

[honorisc]

It seems as though many topics are to make a point, provide information or get people's perspectives. It seems as though many what might be considered serious posts could be considered trolls or trolling. What is it about this topic that lead you to consider it a troll or trolling?

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[honorisc]

You might have missed this so, read the reply just above this reply and answer if you care to do so~.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[wingchunwsl]

i have to say this time... that i agree with joe and the rest.

[honorisc]

No Love lost, wingchunwsl.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.