is it Zhuang is WCK?

[Phenix]

Do you practise standing Post (zhuang) in your WCK linage?

if yes where is your Standing Post come from,
Is it from Shao Lin or is it replical from Yee Chuan or Taiji ?

What do you trying to achieve?

[anerlich]

Do you practise standing Post (zhuang) in your WCK linage?

No.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Phenix
Do you practise standing Post (zhuang) in your WCK linage?

if yes where is your Standing Post come from,
Is it from Shao Lin or is it replical from Yee Chuan or Taiji ?

What do you trying to achieve?
One of the guys was having trouble with his standing post, but he said Viagra solved the problem. :p

[yuanfen]

It still didn't give him the high office he was seeking but he gave testimonials on TV about it's efficacy.<g>

[dezhen2001]

as far as i know, even though my sigung does chen taij and qigong as well as wing chun the standing training we do comes from wing chun.

Quite simply we do different things like: stance work such as lifting 1 leg so the thigh is horizontal and standing still arm in a man sau/wu sau position. Just relax and develop a connection to the ground and good posture. Of course this is done both legs.

Also our SLT is done over a long time. The first third (the tan, jum, wu, fuk sau section) is built up gradually. Right now i am building up to 1/2 an hour but we also train it much longer than that too - before i took a gap in my training i was up to around 45 mins.

Now i dont think that is exactly Zhan Zhuang but its what we do :)

As for what is it trying to achieve? As far as i can understand (im just a beginner only) it is to develop many things. Posture, body connection, patience, health, relaxed and clear mind.... but of course im not exactly sure. I just do what my Sifu says and get healthier :)

dawood

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,



I practice some Zhan Zhuang but it is from Yi Chuan. I only practice two posts and my goal is to cultivate the whole body power and total relaxation of the mind/breath. From this practice you can start to see a bit about the understanding of Stillness and Movement. I find that isolating this practice helps you focus a lot on the big picture.

Do we practice this in Koo Lo WC? Well, YJKYM would be a form of Zhuang but it is not emphacized in the same way the Yang Sheng Zhuang and Tibao Zhuang are that I practice. Actually, in many ways it is but just done with the Ging patterns so there would be more movement.


I also find that the training of Yi Chuan has helped me see things that are already in the WCK but thru a different set of eyes. Its all the same concept but different vehicle!


Regards,

[reneritchie]

I stand (jam) in posture (jong), but is it "jam jong" as Yiquan or Xingyiquan, etc. would define it? I breathe (hei) and work (gung) it, but is it Hei Gung as Emei or Wudang, etc. would define it?

Dunno.

I tend to think you can make something as complex as possible, even to the point of abject paralysis, but I'm too dumb for all that stuff. I can only handle the simple, the contemplation of depth rather than the tabulation of breadth.

So I'm left to ponder...

I posture, therefore I stand?

[Phenix]

IMHO, it is ok to add Zhang Zhuang into WCK, since I am the evolution advocate. As soon as one doesn't say, the Tree Hugging is from Southern Shao Lin..... and secrete teaching and th original teaching.

If one need vitamine B then take it but don;t said it is TCM old chinese secret.



I think people always love to follow fashion. When one starts talking about Structure, people starts the structure...When one starts talking about Taiping, then some other starts making replica, When one starts Chan influence in WCK, then all suddent there is somethings pops out some where. When one Starts talking about Zhang Zhuang then some other will starts replica.

One time, I was chatting with a senior in WCK of other lineage, so he asked me, "do your lineage has this and this?". I told him no, this is what and how we learn. Then, he told me he has seen other whatever he said, other will say "yes, we has that too."
Well, I think the best answer is an honest answer.

Say, if people copying others, hahahha, what if say Chan is a trap someone set years ago to filter out who is copying?
or it is A big project which starts in 1998 to evol WCK? is 2003 now , cant go back to change his-story now. too late once one roll into this path. hahahha :D

IMHO, Tree Hugging Zhang Zhuang from Yee Chuan ect is a great modern adoptation. But one has to be honest. it is not from Southern Shao Lin, not from White Crane.... let's face it and non of our ancestors did that.

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

Since you set this "post" in motion, why not relate to us its meaning or purpose in SLT from your understanding? Beside from other excellent accounts above, I stand to the notion that it promotes that prominent triangle shape fighting which is very wingchunesque.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

Since you set this "post" in motion, why not relate to us its meaning or purpose in SLT from your understanding? Beside from other excellent accounts above, I stand to the notion that it promotes that prominent triangle shape fighting which is very wingchunesque.

Regards,

Reply to Paul only:

hahahaha. SLT has much and much more then that.
Won't tell you here so that people don't steal the secret away and in return call us water down WCK. :D

You want to know how to have the power without clamping the elbow? how is things evol to become clamping the elbow?....
Ask Rene to start the WCK friendship semina again. but this time sign in blood what one learn from others. hahaha

[PaulH]

I think we are still in the information age. The things we know today are outdated by tomorrow. We don't have any secrets because we can't keep secrets for long... I hold certain things in private mostly out of respect for my Sifus who taught me even though I know that other people also know of the same things. Anyway, so why did you start the post in the first place?

Regards,

P.S Just saw your edited post. Okay, no problem. Thanks!

[Phenix]

I think we are still in the information age. The things we know today are outdated by tomorrow. ---P

can be and can be not true.


We don't have any secrets because we can't keep secrets for long... --P


True. Secret die with one when one die.



I hold certain things in private mostly out of respect for my Sifus who taught me even though I know that other people also know of the same things. ---P


In Chinese there is a tradition of Drinking the water remember the source. and there is also a tradition of drinking the water and destroy the source.


Anyway, so why did you start the post in the first place? ---P


It is about Zhang Zhuang not about SLT right? you ask a wrong question. :D

Ask me about the " WCK pillow hugging Zhuang" Trade mark copy right and Patented by NG MUI MIU SUN WCK. Jim know this one. :D

[PaulH]

Ask me about the " WCK pillow hugging Zhuang" Trade mark copy right and Patented by NG MUI MIU SUN WCK. Jim know this one.

What's so great about this? You just jumpstart my curiosity.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Hendrik,


Ask me about the " WCK pillow hugging Zhuang" Trade mark copy right and Patented by NG MUI MIU SUN WCK. Jim know this one.


I do since you told me! If you didn't tell me I wouldn't know!


;)



Greetz from Beantown,

[Phenix]

Jim,

hahaha Waikiki Hilton penthouse on 19 floor has long pillow!
smeal like Diaz's parfume :D

don't tell my wife.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH


What's so great about this? You just jumpstart my curiosity.


Ok Pual,

Want to learn the SOFT side of WCK Zhan Zhuang past down by YIm Wing Chun Herself?
I guarentee NON in Shao Lin Temple!

Go out and by a long pillow. Go to Polo store you can find one there. soft , light weight ,and warm pillow with some great feminin parfume smell. (hey, monk not suppose to touch something like this) . Serious. go and buy one and you will learn the top secret hahahaha. and once you know it. it will change you life when doing Zhan Zhuang and SLT forever and ever.

Secrete teaching of Yim Wing Chun.
If you buy that, scan in the picture to show seriousness and Jim will teach you here. anyone else want to learn the top secret. Buy a LOng Pillow serious. go and get one now. or steal your wife's or girl friends' is ok too. need a pillow.

No joking, no x rate talking. this is real stuffs and advance stuffs and if you learn it REMEMBER GIVE THE CREDIT TO NG MUI, MIU SUN AND YIM WING CHUN. I bet you NO MONK NO SHAOLIN WILL INVENT THIS! Why? MONKS is not suppose to touch the soft and feel good pillow not to mention to sleep on it. that is violation of rule.

[yuanfen]

One can get bogged down in history... was tree hugging there in Chen Wan Ting's daily work? Dont know. Doesnt matter.
Tree hugging is an accepted part of good Chen training today.

Yee Chuan. When exactly did it begin? Dont know- probably
fairly late. Dont know- not important.

The YGKYM provides a platform for standing stake and yes I do it.
The structural details are different from taiji standing stake...
that is why one cannot use both platforms at the same time.
Two different roads up the mountain.

[Phenix]

Hey Joy,

Chinese food adding ice cream is great also.
and Chinese don't have to invent ice cream.

[Jim Roselando]

Hi Joy!


One can get bogged down in history... was tree hugging there in Chen Wan Ting's daily work? Dont know. Doesnt matter.
Tree hugging is an accepted part of good Chen training today.

Yes! Not long ago I visited Chen master Chen Zheng Lei and Chen sifu gave a friend and I a private lesson. The lesson was on Chang Su Kung but the first thing that was coverred was Hun Yuan Zhuang Kung (standing post).

Yee Chuan. When exactly did it begin? Dont know- probably
fairly late. Dont know- not important.

It was founded by Wang Xiang Zhai but the concept is the root of Chinese Martial Art so it started a long long time ago. hehehe

The YGKYM provides a platform for standing stake and yes I do it.

Agreed!

The structural details are different from taiji standing stake...
that is why one cannot use both platforms at the same time.
Two different roads up the mountain.

Indeed there are some slight differences but not much. Both should end up on the top of the mountain but sometimes you need to see what going on up highway B to see some stuff that is on highway A.


See ya,

[yuanfen]

Hendrik- adding ice cream to kung pao (chicken-or other) ruins both-depends on when how and why!!
And the Chinese got the peanuts from elsewhere!!

The Portuguese got the pea nuts from the New World(Indian tribes) and transported them in trade. Good Singapore noodles have curry in them.

The cook is the key.

[TjD]

why do we need standing post?

why is it better than YGKYM?

**edit**
or, what is missing in WC that standing post would fix?
**end edit**


i thought a common theory in wing chun was that less is more... :D

[John Weiland]

There are good lessons to be learned from the standing form in Taijiquan that can be applied to Wing Chun, but Wing Chun has its own development of root and no outside form needs to be applied. That said, it won't hurt either, and may lead to more insights on the Wing Chun side of things by providing the "user" with another perspective on his/her own body connections.

I have a siheng who obsesses on his root and he has begun to practice the Taijiquan standing posture. Since he was already more solid than almost anyone I know, I don't know how much this practice has improved his Wing Chun. For some, maybe him, it might be a distraction down a side path or a route to deeper understanding.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by TjD
why do we need standing post?

why is it better than YGKYM?

**edit**
or, what is missing in WC that standing post would fix?
**end edit**




Oh, it is just some one who is not Direct train with YWC missing a long pillow dummy method. So, well, since they don't know what to do, they import lots of things. IHMO. :D

[PaulH]

Your post reminds me of the thorn bird, TjD. Supposedly, on a certain night before dawn breaks the bird would visit its thorn tree to sing their final song. When the beautiful song is finished it would die by impaling its body into the thorn nearby. I know many WC people would say that the post practice would distract you from the business of fighting. Perhaps they are right, but I often wonder what KF would really feel like to have such a short serene calmness and quiet posture before the start of any given days.

Regards,

[kj]

Originally posted by PaulH
Perhaps they are right, but I often wonder what KF would really feel like to have such a short serene calmness and quiet posture before the start of any given days.

FWIW, my kung fu does have a serene calmness and quiet posture found in the practice of Siu Nim Tau.

Regards,
- kj

[PaulH]

That's great, Kathy!

Regards,

[duende]

Hendrik,

Your question/post is such an obivous attempt to lay a politcal trap for those of us WC'ers that believe WC came from Saolin that I can only ask... Are you really that insecure??? I read your posts, and quite frankly, I can even appreciate your humor at times. But taking such a thinly veiled stab at us like this is just lame. If you are really that bad off, then maybe you should recite your beliefs to yourself in the mirror every morning until you are confident enough to accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you, and that's okay.


now to the topic...

Jam Jong is everywhere all through-out different forms of KF. Sorry.... but I don't think any one lineage can lay claim to it as a monopoly. As far as I'm concerned, anyone in WC that does SLT slowly while working on their rooting, is doing Jam Jong.

And..... yes we do Jam Jong! It is a major part of our Fat Gang exercises. We use it to ground ourselves so that we can understand better the concept of economy of motion. We then use it so that students can gain a better awareness of their internal energy switch, and learn the concept of on/off energy. Finally, it is used in our iron palm training.

So there you go... I've "stepped" into your trap.

Alex

PS I know I sound harsh, and believe me, the last thing I want is another thread war... but some of the claims in the prior posts here are pathetic. come on...

[yuanfen]

Hey Paul- beautiful reference to the last song of the thornbird.
In the desert there is the century plant-it's best bloom is the last before it's death.

Jim-there are key differences between the chen post and the
wc ygkym used as a post. But the important functions of rooting,
energy gathering and circulatiing parallel each other.
But if I am driving-I keep my eyes on the road I am on.
Outside the Boston mess...
I get my kicks on route 66 :-


on wc I have always liked the old wisdom for development (not fighting)- feet like mountains- hands like lightning.

good post kj-
the calm in the midst of the storm.

empty cup (sorry about the hand-)-
you seem to be fascinated with the whippy symbolism. By chance you wouldn't be whippy would you? Its ok if you are.

[TjD]

Originally posted by kj


FWIW, my kung fu does have a serene calmness and quiet posture found in the practice of Siu Nim Tau.

Regards,
- kj

agreed :D

heck sometimes when my chi sau is going well i feel it there too, also even in the other forms :)

i don't do standing post, but i do sit in the lotus position quite often; mabye thats why ;)

one doesn't need to stand still to have serene calmness and quiet posture. although being still can help show how it is found.

[PaulH]

Thanks, Joy. I enjoy that final blooming of the century plant. Strange that the best is often near the end when we have very little time to enjoy it.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Your question/post is such an obivous attempt to lay a politcal trap for those of us WC'ers that believe WC came from Saolin that I can only ask... Are you really that insecure??? I read your posts, and quite frankly, I can even appreciate your humor at times. But taking such a thinly veiled stab at us like this is just lame.

If you are really that bad off, then maybe you should recite your beliefs to yourself in the mirror every morning until you are confident enough to accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you, and that's okay. ---Duende


Re read my post,
"IMHO, Tree Hugging Zhang Zhuang from Yee Chuan ect is a great modern adoptation. But one has to be honest. it is not from Southern Shao Lin, not from White Crane.... let's face it and non of our ancestors did that."

DID I SAY WHITE CRANE TOO?

You certainly can think anything you like to think. May be it is your own feeling of insecurity? See how many times people make fun about White Crane and Emei? and I didn't see you telling those guys They are insecure?

And the reality is the Tree Hugging is NOT from Shao Lin or White Crane. So can't we accept it and humor about it? How can reality become political trap depend on you way of looking at it.

So, I hope you don't be such defensive. WCK evol over time, everyone is modifiying thier WCK for better. face it. I am the advocate of Evolution, remember? so if it is not from Shao LIn can it be picked up somewhere else? Sure, it is a hundreds of year art. why not?



Jam Jong is everywhere all through-out different forms of KF. Sorry.... but I don't think any one lineage can lay claim to it as a monopoly. As far as I'm concerned, anyone in WC that does SLT slowly while working on their rooting, is doing Jam Jong. ---D

Yup, everyone is doing some kind of Jong as Jim post a few months ago.....

See Rolling Hand, now we use the term Jong! as Emei 12 Jong? no longer Hei Gong .... :D




And..... yes we do Jam Jong! It is a major part of our Fat Gang exercises. We use it to ground ourselves so that we can understand better the concept of economy of motion. We then use it so that students can gain a better awareness of their internal energy switch, and learn the concept of on/off energy. Finally, it is used in our iron palm training.

So there you go... I've "stepped" into your trap. --D


No you don't stepped into my trap.
You are being honest and describe how you train. and who can said it is not acceptable or not right? Who will not respect people being honest and just describe their own way? No one has to travel the same path right? As I said, a system can pick up different element in different time, what to political about? Bottom line WCK progress.... may be that is the biggest trap everyone has stepped into since the begining of WCK.

[Phenix]

Hey Paul,

Didn't get your long pillow yet? :D

http://www.polo.com/cgi-bin/polo/polo/catalog/product_detail.jsp?cat_oid=-13928&ref_oid=21821

This one is great. honest.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Hendrik- adding ice cream to kung pao (chicken-or other) ruins both-depends on when how and why!!
And the Chinese got the peanuts from elsewhere!!


The cook is the key.

Joy,

Agree. Thus, I will not crucified any great cook in the name of not following the tradition.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by kj


FWIW, my kung fu does have a serene calmness and quiet posture found in the practice of Siu Nim Tau.

Regards,
- kj


KJ,
Great!


Paul,

Serene Callmness and quiet posture doesn't mean dead rigid or 2 D. not about fomular and execution or control.

But similar to the ocean surf. The wave and the shore don't interupt each other. Silence and action are one.
and one feels the caress of the wind and aware of the sunset.

Thus you need the PILLOW!:D

[TjD]

Originally posted by Phenix



KJ,
Great!


Paul,

Serene Callmness and quiet posture doesn't mean dead rigid or 2 D. not about fomular and execution or control.

But similar to the ocean surf. The wave and the shore don't interupt each other. Silence and action are one.
and one feels the caress of the wind and aware of the sunset.

Thus you need the PILLOW!:D

a pillow puts me to sleep, awake is much better :D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by TjD


a pillow puts me to sleep, awake is much better :D

how about awake sleeping? similar to laying on bed at rainy night listerning to the rain drop and wind and saxaphone and looking out to the the waikiki beach with soft wave surf and feeling the pillow softly mold one into it but floating on it?

my slt feel this way. gentle ...:D
slt from hawaii ..:D


----
Strumming my pain with his fingers, singing my life with his words,
Killing me softly with his song, killing me softly with his song,
Telling my whole life with his words, killing me softly with his song.
I heard he sang a good song, I heard he had a style,
And so I came to see him and listen for a while.
And there he was this young bwoy, stranger to my eyes,
Strumming my pain with his fingers,
Singing my life with his words,
Killing me softly with his song, killing me softly with his song, telling

[duende]

Okay...

I'll just accept the fact that this post, with all it's little jabs at Chan and Saolin, combined with the picture of my Sihing doing Jam Jong in this month's issue of Shaolin Kung Fu are all just some random coincidence.

Anyways, back to the topic. I've said my peace, and I don't want to start a stupid thread war.

Alex

[Phenix]

There are lots of Kuen Kuits for SLT and Zhuang....
but nothing to do with Shao Lin or Shao Lin Chan.
But Emei, TCM, Daoism, and esoteric Buddhism.



Kuen Kuit said:

There are Qi and Mai,
inmoveable is the source of move
Yee Move and Shen is there
Open Close Raising and Sinking.
Open and close not hinderance each other
Here the Jewel form



ΨÆøÓëÂö ²»¶¯¶¯Éú
Òâ„ÓÉñµ½ é_ºÏ½µÉý
开合一如 结丹在兹
(use simplified chinese to decode)


and sure the secret teaching needs Pillow. :D
Surgen general disclaim:
Better not copy my stuffs here otherwise you might step into a big trap to convert your WCK. The more you copy the more you become me. At the end, you all converted by NG Mui and Miu Soon. :D

[yuanfen]

Hnedrik- sez:
But Emei, TCM, Daoism, and esoteric Buddhism.
Kuen Kuit said:

There are Qi and Mai,
inmoveable is the source of move
Yee Move and Shen is there
Open Close Raising and Sinking.
Open and close not hinderance each other
Here the Jewel form
------------------------------------------------------------
hendrik-

lots of traditional transmissions are in esoteric language and literal translations can make them sound nonsensical when they are sources of insight.
What is "mai"? Not mei-right?

But before the yee can really command freely- the pathways
of bone and joint have to be disciplined and formed.
Otherwise things like biu do not have a clear path IMO.

Joy

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

What differences does the pillow make on the standing post?

Regards,

[Phenix]

Joy,

lots of traditional transmissions are in esoteric language and literal translations can make them sound nonsensical when they are sources of insight.---J

Yup. in the ancient time, That is also a test of attainment. people arrive there know what it is.

What is "mai"? Not mei-right? --J

Mai is the path way of Qi, or meridian.

But before the yee can really command freely- the pathways
of bone and joint have to be disciplined and formed.
Otherwise things like biu do not have a clear path IMO. --J

True. However, there are different way to do it.
As for SLT, according to the classic, the path ways of bone and joint..... among with qi.. yee.... are design such that it is simutaneously cultivate.
Such as the case of Saddha Pundarika or the Lotus --- Flower and Fruit haverst in the same time. The suddent.

As my personal, IMHO, opinion only, When SLT get stuck one import Zhuang as supplement, one don't need the Zhuang if one had attain the advance with SLT. But , one might use only Zhuang after reach the advance and discard SLT for energy body training beyond physical, depend on situation.

The problem with SLT is these great simultaneous cultivate design oftern lost the cultivator. Thus, it is said SLT is easy to learn and difficult to master.

On the other hand, when one sees a system starting to add Zhuang, then one can know, that system's condition and attainment of the Grand master depend on what is that Zhuang is for. the use of Zhuang in the system can be used as a diagnosis of what in SLT has been lost or incomplete or complete or confuse. Thus, the secret is open in public. it is just if one knows what to look for. nothing can be hide. Just my two cents.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

What differences does the pillow make on the standing post?

Regards,

heaven and earth. may be will save one a life time or 10 years of training.

So buy a pillow :D it is only cost $100- :D

[PaulH]

I don't mind buying a pillow if I know what to do with it. What you talk sounds like full of intricate details that needs close supervision.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
I don't mind buying a pillow if I know what to do with it. What you talk sounds like full of intricate details that needs close supervision.

Regards,

Depend what are you want to do.

I buy my pillow. actually two. one the feather another
http://www.brookstone.com/shop/ensemble.asp?ensemble_code=TP_PILLOW&world_code=100&category_code=61&subcategory_code=627&search_type=subcategory
when I want to learn these stuffs.

hahaha. Faith Pual. Great art needs faith.

see the achievement not the details....
and beside, in the ancient time we don't have tools to transfer and monitor the details. now we have pillows, biofeedback machine, breathing counting machine.... blood pressure machine... lots of stuffs.....
what to affraid of?
going back to shao lin time to wear the rigid grass shoe which migh damage the knee or ... or using the best NIKE with specail bounce protect ion soles for testing fajing?

Ask Jim is the pillow worthed? :D

Next time when you see me wearing NEW top of the line NIKE when I am going to fight you. You kow I am borrowing Mick Jordan's strenght . and you better run.
it is MATRIX generation, we want the SLT simultaneous technology and we want 6 sigma quality clonning. Well come to the new WCK. hahahah :D

[PaulH]

I don't beleive that I have heard of your interesting practice anywhere beside hugging a tree. What have you achieved so far with the pillow practice, really?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
I don't beleive that I have heard of your interesting practice anywhere beside hugging a tree. What have you achieved so far with the pillow practice, really?

hahahaha this is a sign of no faith. See, advance Kung fu is similar with high tech design. one has to believe it and it will shown.

Nah, don't worry about Pillow. :D

Hi JIm, YY, hahahaha don't tell Pual until he buy a pillow. hahahah :D

[yuanfen]

True. However, there are different way to do it.
As for SLT, according to the classic, the path ways of bone and joint..... among with qi.. yee.... are design such that it is simutaneously cultivate.
Such as the case of Saddha Pundarika or the Lotus --- Flower and Fruit haverst in the same time. The suddent.

(But in the details of the path- the purposes can be different.
Enlightenmnet versus proximate self defense. The latter IMO requires continues slt and applications in order to avoid atrophy.
For the former that preservationis less important. The difference in stages is not trivial IMO))))

As my personal, IMHO, opinion only, When SLT get stuck one import Zhuang as supplement,

((AS I have said before slt when done right includes the zhuang function. It is not imported from taiji or anywhere else and needs no special hype. The independent discovery of zhuang by taiji and wing chun- because the source is the same 'nature; that evryone has to com e to terms with())

[Phenix]

(But in the details of the path- the purposes can be different.
Enlightenmnet versus proximate self defense. The latter IMO requires continues slt and applications in order to avoid atrophy.
For the former that preservationis less important. The difference in stages is not trivial IMO)))) ---J



Joy, true.

But may be just may be the ancestor is interested to become Water. and there is no fighting or defense; Tida wave and relax ocean surf are both just a response to condition. and water doesn't abide to any shape. Thus, the body is fluiid similar to water and the power is as sharp as water jet spil and as strong as tida wave....as it needs. No more sadine's bone and bridge hands... they desolve. :D

as it said, Dao follow the Nature.

[yuanfen]

Hendrik- there is still the issue of slowing down the natural tendency to entropy- tidal waves can become little squirts
depending on replenishment patterns.

There are folks whose minds are clear and the spirit strong but their structure and positioning collapses because they have not maintained that part of their garden.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen


There are folks whose minds are clear and the spirit strong but their structure and positioning collapses because they have not maintained that part of their garden.

Joy,

That is true. Similar to the Chan Monk and the Esoteric Buddhist Yogic. Chan Monk might be enligthen but might have no control of energy since thier training is "interupt the CPU and have no idea about interface and PCI busses....." As for the Yogic who starts looks into CPU, PCI, interface, power management..... .However, the true teaching of Buddha has to in coorporate this two. otherwise, it is partial attainment. not complete attainment.
one cannot be just a software engineer to build a complete computer system.

nothing simple for advance computer architecture course needs lots and lots back ground. thus, that is SLT.

[yuanfen]

Analogy understood. True.
But computers- best to throw them all into the garbage including this one.

Was watching the sad A1 movie from the corner of my eye- the death of mankind- when even the geeks become obsolete.
True-justa movie- but scarier than any horror movie.

Jules Verne, H.G Wells all allude to the atrophy of the emotions.

As Freud knew- life is like a baby's diaper- short and full of
shi(i)t- why muck it up more with bill and stress and snooping
and spam generating and breast (etc) enhancing selling computers?

Forgive this luddite you silicon valley denizens.

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

Nah! Just testing the water. The doubting Thomas in me hates jumping into any freezing lake out of the blue in full winter of his misgivings. Sure like the mellow feel of it so far though, that is why I don't know why you include the weight of the pillow in this seemingly stress free enjoyment.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

Nah! Just testing the water. The doubting Thomas in me hates jumping into any freezing lake out of the blue in full winter of his misgivings. Sure like the mellow feel of it so far though, that is why I don't know why you include the weight of the pillow in this seemingly stress free enjoyment.


Pual,

Honest, that is what my sifu Cho Hong-Choy told me long ago. Advance MA based alots in Faith.

And serious, A pillow can atleast open up two most important lock in the body. The different between internal and external differentiate here. But still how many will buy the pillow or even just borrow from Their wife or Mom to go these far?

See, Dao is free but not too many can effort to buy it. and then when they convince themself that that is it, they are going to pay for it but request the result right the way without wanting to do any work. So, Chances is they will not go throught the full cultivation because they lack of patient and sincerity. Well, that is live ,happen to me too. so, we all are just human.

So, Let Rene recorded in history of WCK that Hendrik Santo of Yik Kam family had mentioned there is a Pillow (Dummy) set suppliment for SLT which can open up atleast 2 key lock in the body. and the Pillow art lost. forever in the independent day of PRC. 10-1-03. Due to Paul not willing to buy a pillow. :D

[Phenix]

Hey, Joy,

Since tired of that computer and silicon valley, hahaha, that is why buy a pillow. Good for WCK and good for Sleeping and Good for dreaming. hahahahaha

Both Stop sign and Pillow are VERY ZEN!
Stop sign stops and starts one's car and Pillow stops and starts one's body. and by the way it is the last thing one see before one go to heaven. :D

[PaulH]

As you put it, my crime of not buying the pillow and the punishment of the forever lost art of pillow set is too serious a matter for WCdom. Please take note that I got "Kong" into buying by the Phoenix. Hey, this maybe the exciting beginning of a "faithful" step. Ha! Ha!

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
As you put it, my crime of not buying the pillow and the punishment of the forever lost art of pillow set is too serious a matter for WCdom. Please take note that I got "Kong" into buying by the Phoenix. Hey, this maybe the exciting beginning of a "faithful" step. Ha! Ha!

sure, Pillow is very Zen right? :D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by duende
Okay...

I'll just accept the fact that this post, with all it's little jabs at Chan and Saolin, combined with the picture of my Sihing doing Jam Jong in this month's issue of Shaolin Kung Fu are all just some random coincidence.

Anyways, back to the topic. I've said my peace, and I don't want to start a stupid thread war.

Alex


Hi Alex,

Let me tell you my humble opinion on your post. You ofcause can chose to take it in any way you like it. But think about it deep instead of react.


1, as a wise human being we don't need others approval. so, as soon as it is great stuffs for one and others. Do it. the whole world can say what they want. and believe whatever they want.

2, as a wise human being we don't force other to give approval to us. Such as claim we are the olderst the original..... or lineage on Chan.... Gate keeper..... doesn't matter.

There is no war. There is only an imbalance 3rd Chakra or the center which needs to work on and settle.

If you believe in Heaven man and earth. Then, the 3rd Chakra is the center. that is the Man. if this chakra is not center and settle. then either one nees others approval or want to approve others. That both leak out energy and will not link the heaven and earth.


There is no peace until the 3rd chakra settle.
cultist, chinese Tribal system, Coorporate CEO.... all has problem with the 3rd chakra. until the 3rd chakra is balance. there is no peace. thus the Fan Qing Fu Ming never achieve peace but keep fighting even when the war had over hundred of years ago, due to the idealogy thinking Ming is better then Qing but infact it is Ming destroy itself but people blame it on Qing. Blame is an unsettle of the 3rd Chakra.

Kuen cannot faat from Sum without balance.
because Sum is the center, the self esteem, the dignity, the integrity, the self respect disregard how other look at one. the self value disregard how much or less one has. ----- The 3rd Chakra. Until then, there is no real peace disregard even if one is the best fighter of the whole world. without peace Chan is far far away.



Just my opion for you to think about.


Back to the topic,

Zhan Zhuang for me is about balancing. balancing the flow of in and out up and down heaven and earth..... balancing the force of all direction..... but balancing doesn't mean dead 50/50 balance ... but a continous of balancing act which always changes weight but always balance out..... and growing or expanding its area, volume, and dimemtions......

[duende]

you could say all that...
or you could just say-

know yourself before you know others

sorry, but to be honest with you, I can only stomach so much spirituality. But... I'm working on it.


If I hadn't of thought deeply about what has been posted here, then I wouldn't of responded at all.

In my humble opinion, childish stabs at one another belittle us all. I also don't like it when someone posts in a manner as if to be the end all authority on something REGARDLESS of whose kwoon they represent.

So lets just both take what we said to heart and move on.

Alex

[Phenix]

Good luck Alex.

[S.Teebas]

Alex,

Phenix says some pretty deep stuff. I must say alot of what he says only makes sence if you know some of the subject prior. But its good info IMHO.

[duende]

Teebas,

I'm very aware of what I wrote and why....

I must say you should try to make yourself aware of what is actually going on here before you bring up notions of "depth" and "prior subject knowledge".

that's good info.

[anerlich]

Incomprehensibility sometimes implies profundity.

Other times, incomprehensibility implies only incomprehensibility.

I have a fair amount of prior knowledge of the subject matter, and IMNSO the signal-to-noise ratio of most of the "deep" stuff written on this thread so far is pretty low.

[anerlich]

A real martial artist would use a heavy bag. Those pillows are for wimps and theoreticians.

[PaulH]

I don't know why you keep attacking the same person so many times, Anerlich. Whatever your problems are, I for one, don't need to read them here on the forum. I like your stuffs, but your attitude is rather poor. And that is a fact. Are you a pessimist?

Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.
- Oscar Fingall O’Flahertie Wills Wilde

[S.Teebas]

Didnt realise your get so defensive....


I must say you should try to make yourself aware of
what is actually going on here before you bring up notions of "depth" and "prior subject knowledge".

Why dont you fill us in?

[anerlich]

Whatever your problems are, I for one, don't need to read them here on the forum.

Please do not feel obligated to read any post or remain on the forum on my account.


And that is a fact.

It is an opinion, is noted, but since you are not a moderator and I am not seeking the "friendly poster of the month" award ....

I attack pomposity and what I regard as stream of consciousness musings, ill thought out and/or baseless arguments, clumsy metaphorical allusions to unrelated subjects like IT, or complete tripe (like the recent comments on another thread about schools who mix WC and BJJ, which showed a total ignorance of the subject) being dressed up in highfalutin language and presented as profound insights.

The fact that the posts I attack may appear to originate from a single person or small number of people is an unfortunate coincidence, but not one of my making.


One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.

What did Wilde call someone who chooses neither?

[duende]

Teebas,

I was offended only by your condescending tone, although I think you were trying to be helpful too. Read the posts in this thread, draw your own conclusions.

Alex

[canglong]

Phenix says some pretty deep stuff. So deep you need boots to waddle through it.

I have a fair amount of prior knowledge of the subject matter I think I may have found the disconnect.
or complete tripe (like the recent comments on another thread about schools who mix WC and BJJ, which showed a total ignorance of the subject) being dressed up in highfalutin language and presented as profound insights. Now who is being the"theoretician" ...and the net result of this thread is the same as all the others started by Phenix.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by anerlich
A real martial artist would use a heavy bag. Those pillows are for wimps and theoreticians.

Too bad your style is called WING CHUN and it is a GIRL NAME no matter how you want to reason or rational about it. :D

And NG MUI is a girl also! hahahaha.

[Phenix]

¦æ¤ª¬y¤ô¤¼
¥Î¤ßµL¦h
¨D¤j¹D¥H«Ú§L¤¼
_âÉEª«¦Ó¶W²æ
³Vª¾_µ©TÃø±o¤¼
°ß¤Ñ¦aÉO§@¦X.

[anerlich]

WING CHUN and it is a GIRL NAME
.
And NG MUI is a girl also! hahahaha.

Actually my money is on their both being imaginary beings.

You may think that women are weak and cannot succeed in fighting or martial arts, but most of the rest of us no longer subscribe to such sexist, offensive views. Shame on you!

Neither "wimp" nor "theoretician" is a sexist term. Please do not attempt to drag me down into the sexist gutter with you.

My favorite female fictional character is Ellen Ripley from the "Alien" movies. No one could criticise her of being a wimp or theoretician. And she'd kick the a$$es of Ng Mui and Wing Chun even if they both attacked her at once with butterfly swords.

(They are all fictional characters, so there is no point arguing).


no matter how you want to reason or rational about it.

I have no reason to rationalise practising an art allegedly developed by imaginary females. I am and have always been quite comfortable with that and proud to describe my art in those terms.

Besides, from what I've seen on this thread and some of your posts like the one to which I am responding, reason and rationality are not requirements to participate.

Please continue to post, but I really must ask for higher standards from you.

[anerlich]

¦æ¤ª¬y¤ô¤¼
¥Î¤ßµL¦h
¨D¤j¹D¥H«Ú§L¤¼
_âÉEª«¦Ó¶W²æ
³Vª¾_µ©TÃø±o¤¼
°ß¤Ñ¦aÉO§@¦X.

No, I cannot accept that as an improvement. Do not let me dissuade you in that quest, however.

[Phenix]

I have no reason to rationalise practising an art allegedly developed by imaginary females. I am and have always been quite comfortable with that and proud to describe my art in those terms.---AN

Come on don't rationalise your view and what's wrong with real females? see? :D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by anerlich


No, I cannot accept that as an improvement. Do not let me dissuade you in that quest, however.


Possible your 3rd Chakra is imbalance or Liver Qi stagnated due to long hour of rigid training? you need a pillow to have a good sleep. :D

[Mckind13]

Tony Wrote "deep stuff

So deep you need boots to waddle through it.
I think I may have found the disconnect.
quote:
Now who is being the"theoretician" ...and the net result of this thread is the same as all the others started by Phenix.

I think he is mad about his Fake Free Checking....Switch to Washington Mutual Tony :)

David

[anerlich]

Possible your 3rd Chakra is imbalance or Liver Qi stagnated due to long hour of rigid training?

Incorrect. Besides, I don't train rigidly. I doubt you are qualified to make such diagnoses over the internet or anywhere else.

I suspect you are trying to imply I have a physical condition that effects my ability to reason. I am disappointed that since you cannot finf fault with my arguments you need to resort to personal attacks; but I do not yet regard you as a cause that is totally lost.


Come on don't rationalise your view and what's wrong with real females?

I have no need to rationalise my view, though it is not for you to give or deny me permission to do so if I wish. That you cannot accept that is a problem that you need to solve, not me.

I never said there was anything wrong with real females, and of course there is not. You are trying to divert the argument because you are losing.

Your earlier post about Wing Chun and Ng Mui shows that you are the sexist here, not me. You cannot take the high moral ground while you are still standing in the gutter. Shame on you again!

[Phenix]

Let's not forget, I am the one of the NG MUI YIM WING CHUN supporters while lots of people claiming Shao Lin and ..... and NO NG MUI and NO YIM WING CHUN. so you mean those who claim WCK is from SHao Lin is sexist? :D

By the Way, WCK ancestor like Leung Yee Dai is a DAN, actor who play female role, DAn has to look feminine, and so, you are saying they are wimp too? :D

Or you mean anyone who sleep on a pillow is a wimp? :D


I think the topic is about did you do Zhan Zhuang in your WCK training right?

Get back to the topic don't waste other's bandwidth. Save everyone's energy right? :D

[PaulH]

I read your explanations a few times, Anerlich. My thinking borrowed from a phrase of another forum is that the "forum exists to for polite, constructive discussion between Ving Tsun practicioners, sifus, and students. If you have a personal disagreement with someone, email them. This is NOT the outlet for interpersonal disputes." I believe this will serve everyone's interests in the long run. As I mentioned earlier, your posts are interesting and informative at times, so I see no reason to leave just because of some irritating and personal grievances. By the way, thanks for that great insightful book "Championship Fighting" by Jack Dempsey.

Regards,

[anerlich]

Paul, you are right.

Hendrik was wrong to attempt to cast me as a sexist, or to imply that I had physical problems which led to emotional problems, or that I train rigidly, especially when he is the one advocating standing immobile in Zhuang for 20 minutes or so a day.

That sort of poor behaviour is uncalled for on a forum such as this. I hope your comments help him realise the errors of his ways.

In the interests of substantive discussion and allowing those who know little about the "standing post" exercise to gain enough knowledge to participate effectively, I offer the following link, which explains it from one perspective:

http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/reasons.htm

I hope this will help raise the quality of this thread.

While I am a TCM sceptic, I should point out that I took Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji and trained very hard in them for a good portion of the 1980's. I thus feel I can speak with as much authority on this subject as just about any other contributor to this thread.

Now hopefully, the personal attacks on me (off a duck's back, baby :cool: ) will cease and a good discussion will resume.

[PaulH]

Ha! Ha! You're a real mouth boxer, Anerlich!

[anerlich]

Originally posted by PaulH
Ha! Ha! You're a real mouth boxer, Anerlich!

One does what one can.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by anerlich


One does what one can.
If Hendrik gives you a hard time, just threaten to tell his wife about Cameron Diaz. :p

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by John Weiland

If Hendrik gives you a hard time, just threaten to tell his wife about Cameron Diaz. :p

Regards,


Diaz get engage and play Chi Sau with her boy friend! :mad:



---------------------------------------------------
Pillow body work, Disk washing Ying Yang dynamic structure, Ballon Yee method, Telephone Book Jing.
Don't Challenge me if you don't like me. I am OM. Just a sound without self.

[yylee]

Originally posted by Phenix
I have no reason to rationalise practising an art allegedly developed by imaginary females. I am and have always been quite comfortable with that and proud to describe my art in those terms.---AN

Come on don't rationalise your view and what's wrong with real females? see? :D

Nah, Anerlich likes the females Gods in Delphi, but he hates the wish old man who answers questons in Oracle. :D


am I right Andrew? :cool:

[anerlich]

Nah, Anerlich likes the females Gods in Delphi, but he hates the wish old man who answers questons in Oracle.

So many people trying to analyze my preferences, motivations, and the like. Without wanting to come across as some latter day Dear Abbie of KFO, I'd suggest the best target for improvement along such lines for us all would be SELF-analysis (preferably off list, I hasten to add).

I've been developing software professionally using Delphi versions 3 through 7 and Oracle 7 to 9i since 1997. I have no problem with either tool.

Who's this "wish old man"? I though the Oracle gave advice, not granted wishes. You are confused with the story of Aladdin, apparently.

John, no one on this thread has been able to make me feel threatened in the least, be it physically, intellectually or in any other fashion. Thanks for the advice all the same.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by anerlich
John, no one on this thread has been able to make me feel threatened in the least, be it physically, intellectually or in any other fashion. Thanks for the advice all the same.
You're welcome. For anyone else, I'd ask for a nickel (5 Cents US). :D

Nice list of links on your sig.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Hi YY, joy, john, Pual, Anrich.....

I know a way how to get instantaneous Chan enlightenment of No-Self while doing Zhang Zhuang. :D
It is a so powerfull technics that will increase you spiritual and physical power more then 10x in an instant!

Just Prepare a brown lunch paper bag and I will teach you this Ancient enlightenmnet Secret. :D :D :D

http://www.aplasticbag.com/custp8.asp?cartID=9390613HYU-EVEREST-PE147

you if cant find a good one. :D


So, after you got the bag. put on it to cover your head totally.
Oh, you need to cut two holes so for your eyes. Do it while you are doing Zhang Zhuang and you sure will experience an instantaneous ZEN.

As for the the most advance Zhang Zhuang,
get one of this and meditate at it while doing Zhang Zhuang.

http://standard-signs.com/stopsign1.html
http://www.emedco.com/emed2/product_2.asp


PS. but this is not WCK. it is just a secret teaching via DAMO! :D

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Phenix
Just Prepare a brown lunch paper bag and I will teach you this Ancient enlightenmnet Secret. :D :D :D

So, after you got the bag. put on it to cover your head totally.
Oh, you need to cut two holes so for your eyes. Do it while you are doing Zhang Zhuang and you sure will experience an instantaneous ZEN.

After using this technique, I find I am more at one than anyone. :D

This really works. And, for only $5 US plus shipping, I will send you one of my guaranteed Chan paper bag enlightenment devices.


As for the the most advance Zhang Zhuang,
get one of this and meditate at it while doing Zhang Zhuang.

http://standard-signs.com/stopsign1.html
http://www.emedco.com/emed2/product_2.asp


PS. but this is not WCK. it is just a secret teaching via DAMO! :D
As a true believer, must I buy my own, or can I merely go down to the corner and hug that one? :D

Namaste,

[PaulH]

Hendrik, are you sure that this bag won't backfire on the user? There are some evidences that people who have these two eyes holes cover on their head become instantly excited, messing with other people at nights, and burning posting stakes instead! Ha! Ha! Since it's from Damo, what can we do to ward off these evil symptoms?

Regards,

[John Weiland]

A Wing Chun master showing techinique for
blocking a high kick (http://www.qsl.net/k1byd/crossing%20guard640.jpg) while performing advanced Zhang Zhuang.

Are you aware that stop signs come in many forms as stylistic variations play a part in trainng one's Chan consciousness during Wing Chun training.

The beautiful Audrey Hepburn demos
an advanced form of standing post. (http://www.reelclassics.com/Actresses/Audrey/images7/audrey_24road_stopcross.jpg)

Evidence for a southern
Shaolin connection (http://www.alamanceind.com/photos/eastlwn1.jpg)

Note that Stop translates to "Alto" in the southern dialect generating another Chan twist to the recently discovered "secret teaching." Coincidentally, all these photos were taken before the discovery of the pillow hugging and paper sack training methods were popularized here.

[Phenix]

Hi John,

Tooo much fun!
your Yum Chun Kuen better Slow down the evolution. before you invent a stop pole to relace 6.5 pole.:D

[ZIM]

Don't need none of that! Just need Acme! (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/acme.html)

With Acme, you can do anything- learn to fight, (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/corr.html) attain enlightenment, (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/instantawakener.html) solve Hendrik's Diaz dillemas, (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/instantgirl.html) improve your stance, (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/triplef.html) even get that Iron Body skill... (http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/tripleb.html)

[Phenix]

Zim,

Great!
We need to visit Shao Lin to do OEM for them. :D
Any WC lineage interested in Using These products?:D