Shaolin Do Forms: what is everyone working on out there?

[ninthdrunk]

Howdy!

Just wanting to get a little more feedback from the shaolin do folks around here. See what everyone is working on, what is getting taught out at different schools, just random whatevers! Im away from my school in tx and feel a little "home-sick". Aside from a few folks back home, this is my line of communication with the rest of the shaolin do community. Post away...any and all random shaolin do conversation!

Ben

[ninthdrunk]

BIG cross-step! Really advance with that step! That will help. Remember to keep good bow stances through the whole thing...NORTHERN beggar...ehehehe!

[Golden Tiger]

The lexington gym will soon be starting the Roads of Hua (1st) then something for the 2nd degrees (probably Tiger/Crane or Tai Chi dbl edge sword).

themeecer, just curious.....who is your teacher? Master Green? The reason i ask is that i have been around since before there was dirt and I haven't heard of the forms that you are learning at the moment. I know that Master Hiang was a big bench guy but never heard of a 2 man set for it.....just curious

[Shaolin-Do]

Practice :rolleyes:

[Water Dragon]

Well, as far as handwork goes, I've been working a lot of jab-beng-hook combos as well as using Pi Chuan to clear the gate and give me a way in (The Xing Yi guys will understand :) )

As far as kicking, it's basically just teep and Thai style roundhouse. Unless you want to add Forward march as a kick (which I do)

As far as throws:Forward March, Diagonal Cut, Shaving and Inner Leg Hook. For Crip, we just got done with hip throw and are going to move into breaking throws (bowling break, neck suround, cracking, etc)

So I've been doing a lot of Beng Chuan for power by focusing on the expand-contract aspect and snapping the back foot up (I use a pulling, not pushing Beng Chuan) I've also been doing a lot of work with combining the upper body work of the jab with the lower body work of Pi Chuan as well as classic Pi, and we have an excellant form to train the hook that pulls the whole body in (similar to the grinding peanuts method) I like to do these mainly on the heavy bag, but will train them in the air to work on my timing.

As far as kicking forms, it's always on the bag or tree. Just a personal preference.

For throwing, I LOVE bowing. It's one of the most explosive movements I have ever seen. We also work the standard Forward March, Diagonal Cut, and Hip Throw (usually with belt cracking. We're also going to start working neck surround and Bowling Break. Throwing forms are done in combination with either other throws or hand/footwork, but it is up to the individual to design their own combos. It helps keep the art alive.

I wont get into footwork much. It's one of the things I do keep secret as if you know my footwork, you know how to beat me. But there's about 3 patterns I'm working on and I'm about to add in two more.

That's my form work, it's about 1/5 of my total training time.

[Shaolin-Do]

Pi chuan? We just use hand controls... if the door isnt open either knock or break it down. :eek:
Shaving and neck surrounding are my favorites thus far. Im too tall to pull off proper hip throws on gene or CPA. (I can but its definately not preffered)

[Felipe Bido]

Shaolin Do...I think Water Dragon is talking about clearing the gate by entering and at the same time burying his fist into the opponent's teeth. How's that for 'breaking down the door'? :D

[Shaolin-Do]

Eh? Just a straight jab through the block or what?

[Felipe Bido]

In Xingyi, there's no such thing as a 'block', as it's commonly known. In XY you block with a strike, or deflection (Which hurts anyway). Imagine you're running towards an opponent, and he runs towards you with an uppercut, but he's in a better position, so, your attack is nullified by the guy's arm, and at the same time you're eating his fist.

Something like it.

If WD is talking about the 'Splitting' principle, is a whole different discussion altogether.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
themeecer, just curious.....who is your teacher? Master Green? The reason i ask is that i have been around since before there was dirt and I haven't heard of the forms that you are learning at the moment. I know that Master Hiang was a big bench guy but never heard of a 2 man set for it.....just curious
Yes I am one of Master Green's students.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Felipe Bido


If WD is talking about the 'Splitting' principle, is a whole different discussion altogether.

WD's talking about using a Pi Chuan to pluck a boxers jab out of the air and pulling him into a Beng to the face.

[Felipe Bido]

Ok, WD...

One of the best combos ever.

[Felipe Bido]

Oh, WD

You can try this one, too: Instead of a Beng Quan, use a Zuan Quan. But save the drilling/shooting movement for the very end, when your fist is almost touching the guy's face.

[Water Dragon]

I don't know how to do a Zuan Quan :(

[Felipe Bido]

Ok..use the Drilling fist you have in the Pi Quan form.

Meanwhile, just pull the guy towards you and send him back with an uppercut

[Water Dragon]

What about a Boxing Uppercut?

[Felipe Bido]

It's an excellent choice, too, Mr. Dragon

[Water Dragon]

Oh, and if you have one hand doing Pi Chuan to catch and pull, and the "punching" hand lifts from underneath his arm (looks a little like White Crane Spread Wings) That would be "Seperate Hands" in SC. I think that's what SD is referring to. Same as Xing Yi except you're controlling both arms to go in for the throw.

SD, we are talking about using the downward motion from seperate hands and punching him in the face instead of lifting the other hand

Shuai Chiao, meet Xing Yi. Xing Yi, meet Shuai Chiao. You boys play nice now...

[fa_jing]

"you boys play nice now"

not likely!

[Felipe Bido]

'Separate hands'

Nice...

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Felipe Bido
'Separate hands'

Nice...

Yeah, I'm considering using that with a Dragon Step to the hip or knee joint. Whatta ya think?

-edit-
I just realized we are having what may be the most candid exchanges of information ever on this board, and the title of the thread is Shaolin Do Forms. How ironic is that?

[Felipe Bido]

Are you talking about doing the Dragon step in the knee after you have hit the guy?

Sure!...Fall in dragon step on his knee until he hits the ground. You can also kick him in the ribs while getting hold of his clothes, a la 'Leopard Climbs the Tree' fashion

[Water Dragon]

The only one I know is where you get your foot in one of his joints and step on him to make him fall down.

[yenhoi]

I have a yang style tai chi form that I have been working for a few months now every mornining after I finish working out.

I also play stick carenzas for about an hour or two a week.

Much shadowboxing nearly every training session.

:eek:

[Felipe Bido]

Cool...

Hold the guy by his shirt or sleeve, (His arm gets stuck under your armpit) pull him toward you and jam your foot on his knee.

In 'Leopard Climbs the Tree' you don't apply pressure to his hip or knee...you kick it, with a snapping kick. Add a few palm strikes at the head (earlobe zone) for a spicy flavor

[Water Dragon]

OK. I like! Do you guys do the one where you slide your foot down the shin bone and stomp on his instep?

[Felipe Bido]

Yea, that one

[Water Dragon]

Heh, my introduction to that one.

Hey, Larry, come here and check this out.

What?

Scraaaaaape-STOMP

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by themeecer

Yes I am one of Master Green's students.

Cool. I also studied with him (and along side him in many classes) years ago in Berea (in a parking lot of a fitness center so I know all about the gravel)and in Richmond. He is a great teacher, that for sure.

[Felipe Bido]

Hehehe....like me, asking about the "Step Back and Split-Single Wing" application:

Me: Sifu, what's that for?

Him: Punch Me

*I punch, he strikes my arm, comes with a Zuan..I deflect...WHACK!... a slap comes from nowhere...I've been hit like a ******

So, I smile, and go back to the group...everyone's smiling...

My classmate: So...did you get it?

Me: (Still rubbing my face)..Oh yea


Ok, people, I'm off to Yoga, more when I get back

[Felipe Bido]

Heh, WD, I just read your edit

[Brad]

Are you talking about doing the Dragon step in the knee after you have hit the guy?

Sure!...Fall in dragon step on his knee until he hits the ground.
I love that technique :p The metal pin in my knee makes it hard to practice solo though, but I'm getting stronger :D

[themeecer]

Hey Brad, Felipe Bido, Water Dragon, and fa_jing, shoo!!!

Just trying to shoo the people away that can't read the title of the thread. :D

I didn't know you guys learned SD forms, how cool.

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by themeecer

I didn't know you guys learned SD forms, how cool.


:D aiya!...it's the other way around...that's pure Xingyi/Shuai Chiao we're discussing here!

Man, sorry if we hijacked SD's thread...but hey, you can't complain...there's a lot of info that could be considered 'secret' on this thread.


OK, OK!.-.we'll go now! :D don't...push..me! :D

[Felipe Bido]

WD, Brad, fa Jing, let's pack our bags...

Let's start another thread with some apps to discuss.-..

:D

[themeecer]

Just picking on you. I like Hsing I.

[MonkeySlap Too]

You know Felipe, I think you need to consider arrangeing a KFO "Visit the Dominicans, drink with Felipe, and fight on the beach" vacation package.

I know I'm in...

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
You know Felipe, I think you need to consider arrangeing a KFO "Visit the Dominicans, drink with Felipe, and fight on the beach" vacation package.

I know I'm in...

Oh, that'd be cool!...with one condition. Please, don't throw me when the girls are looking, please.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Man, we'd be taking turns making each other look good. Otherwise how we are we all gonna get lucky with the ladies?

Besides, I've gotta rely on personality...

[Felipe Bido]

:D

[Water Dragon]

Felipepalooza? I'd go.

[Judge Pen]

Felipe,

Do you practice two-man sets in your Hsing-I training? If so, at what stage in your training(beginner, intermediate, or advanced) do you start with the two man sets? Thanks.

JP

[Felipe Bido]

Judge Pen:

Yes, we practice two-man sets. After you learn the Five Elements, you and your partner train in Wu Xing Shiang Ke (Creative/Destructive Circle). It's a forms that uses the Five Elements. After a while, we train in another variation of that form, but it includes Li Mao Shangshu (Leopard Climbs the Tree), which is the technique WD and I were sharing.

After a while, you learn Wu Hua Pao (Five Flower Pounding), San Shou Pao (Three Hands Pounding), and An Shen Pao (Close Body Pounding). In my school, we learn a spear Vs. Broadsword form after that.

We don't use the two-man forms too much. my teacher is more interested in applications and free sparring.

If you check out the Shanxi systems, you'll find more two-man forms:

- Xin Yi Zi Zhou Quan
- Wu Xing Pao Ai Shen Pao Yan (Five Elements Pounding Close Body Pounding Practice)
- Wu Cai Liu Chui (Five Colors Six Hammers)
- Jiu Quan (Nine Fists)
- Wu Shou (Five Hands)
- Shi Liu Ba (Sixteen Grasps)
- Lian Huan Shou (Linked Hands)
- Sixteen Pairs Practice

It's very difficult that EVERY form is included in one system. I am talking about the Shanxi systems as a whole

[Shaolin-Do]

I really like the little bits of leopard Ive seen. :)
None of it anywheres near here however...

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Felipe Bido
Judge Pen:

Yes, we practice two-man sets. After you learn the Five Elements, you and your partner train in Wu Xing Shiang Ke (Creative/Destructive Circle). It's a forms that uses the Five Elements. After a while, we train in another variation of that form, but it includes Li Mao Shangshu (Leopard Climbs the Tree), which is the technique WD and I were sharing.

After a while, you learn Wu Hua Pao (Five Flower Pounding), San Shou Pao (Three Hands Pounding), and An Shen Pao (Close Body Pounding). In my school, we learn a spear Vs. Broadsword form after that.

We don't use the two-man forms too much. my teacher is more interested in applications and free sparring.

If you check out the Shanxi systems, you'll find more two-man forms:

- Xin Yi Zi Zhou Quan
- Wu Xing Pao Ai Shen Pao Yan (Five Elements Pounding Close Body Pounding Practice)
- Wu Cai Liu Chui (Five Colors Six Hammers)
- Jiu Quan (Nine Fists)
- Wu Shou (Five Hands)
- Shi Liu Ba (Sixteen Grasps)
- Lian Huan Shou (Linked Hands)
- Sixteen Pairs Practice

It's very difficult that EVERY form is included in one system. I am talking about the Shanxi systems as a whole

Thanks. The technique you and water dragon are talking about: I know it as 'wildcat climbs the tree'

I have been taught the 5 element fists, the linkage set, and one side of the two-man creation destruction cycle. I'm learning the 12 animals, but havent' gotten them all yet. (of course, that's just the forms, I'm nowhere near proficient yet)

[Felipe Bido]

Judge Pen:

'Wild Cat Climbs the Tree' is the same movement.

Concentrate your practice in the 5 elements. Without a clear knowledge of the five elements, the animals are completely useless. Have in mind that the five element forms are not 'forms' per se, but power drills.

For example: Do you think that the Splitting Fist is only a "Palm strike"..think again...I could show you the same 'Splitting Fist' principle striking with the head, a fist, a kick, the shoulders,, and I'll be doing the same form.

That's one of the strange things about Xingyi that need to be totally understood to find their true potential.-

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Felipe Bido
Judge Pen:

'Wild Cat Climbs the Tree' is the same movement.

Concentrate your practice in the 5 elements. Without a clear knowledge of the five elements, the animals are completely useless. Have in mind that the five element forms are not 'forms' per se, but power drills.

For example: Do you think that the Splitting Fist is only a "Palm strike"..think again...I could show you the same 'Splitting Fist' principle striking with the head, a fist, a kick, the shoulders,, and I'll be doing the same form.

That's one of the strange things about Xingyi that need to be totally understood to find their true potential.-

That's a great point to keep in mind. Thanks.

[Shaolin-Do]

So you would say that the 5 elements is more or less "the meat" of the xing yi system? Thats what really makes it "what it is"?

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
So you would say that the 5 elements is more or less "the meat" of the xing yi system? Thats what really makes it "what it is"?


Yes.

This is true for the Hebei and Shanxi Branches of Xingyi, and the Dai Family Xinyiquan. The Henan system of Xingyi (Xinyi Liuhequan) has no five elements forms and only 10 animals.

[Water Dragon]

You should really stay outta Shaolin-Do's pot, wujidude.

[Shaolin-Do]

Yup. You know how the cut off peoples hands for stealing in the middle east... Well...
:eek:

[CaptinPickAxe]

I prefer to rip off a theives fingers and have a necklace made out of them. so everytime he sees me, he remembers TO KEEP HIS HANDS OFFA MY SH!T!:mad:


or just bully him around from time to time...:D

[Shaolin-Do]

Kicking people smaller than you in the genitals is always a big plus.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
Man, we'd be taking turns making each other look good. Otherwise how we are we all gonna get lucky with the ladies?

Besides, I've gotta rely on personality...

:D