kungfu lingo

[yenhoi]

can anyone identify in detail these terms:

Kuzushi

Tsukuri

Kake


Thanks!

:confused:

[shaolin kungfu]

kuzushi- what the japanese say instead of "achoo"(sound of sneeze)

tsukuri- small car, good gas mileage.

kake- usually served at birthday parties

[cho]

Those are japanese terms. Are you studying Shaolin-Do?:D :D

I could them up, but my Jpn conjugation isn't good at all and there are quite a few ****phones.

yatta

[chen zhen]

"kake" is often coupled with the word "Bu" creating the word "bukkake", which means something that has absolutely nothing to do with kungfu (except Tai Shing Pek Kwar).

no seriously: why do u call them kungfy terms? they are jap.

[Sho]

kuzushi = off-balancing
tsukuri = structure
kake = to cover or to apply on something (chen zhen, you naughty man :D)

Edit: Better translations

[Stranger]

"they are jap."
-CZ

That's not nice.

[chen zhen]

whats wrong?

arent they?
I just shortened it because i didnt care to write the word through. if jap has a negative sound to americans, then im sorry, didnt know. think that Sho didnt comment it, and hes japanese.
:confused:

(why do i have to apologize this way again and again? and now on with the topic.)

[SevenStar]

I think he knows they're japanese terms - he just didn't want his thread to get moved.

Sho got the answer though. Any reason why you want those particular terms?

[yenhoi]

As judo principles do they also come with particular literature?

Kuzushi being the eight directions of unbalance.

Tsukuri is called body fitting, Im most interested in this term.

Kake being the actual execution of the throws..

do these correspond with body movements, footwork, mechanics of moving through range, offbalancing (attacking strucutre of opponent), and then knocking over?

Is it in that order?

:confused:

[Stranger]

First off, I am not "MAD" mad at you, so there is no need to get excited. I don't know any Danish, so I can't speak intelligently on the connotation of "Jap" in Denmark, but in the US that is a rude, although unfortunately common, way to refer to the Japanese. Perhaps its common appearance has led to Sho building up a tolerance to the term, but it is no better than the following:

"Nip"
"Chinc"
"Gook"
"Flip"
"Dink"
etc.
(I apologize for posting those terms)

If you choose to use the term, you'll get no more comments for me. I realize that there are people from all over the world on this forum and nobody could be held responsible for an awareness of all of the racial disses of all languages. I commend your skill in English. All that said, ther are a lot of Americans on this board, and therefore I would guess a number of Japanese Americans as well. If you could take the time to type out "Japanese" rather than "Jap", you run a better chance of hurting nobody and being respected by all. This may seem like splitting hairs, but as moderator of the "ORA" forum wherein discussion of JMA would most likely take place- it might be something worthy of noting.

So endeth the sermon.

PS the bukkake reference was really funny :D

[Sho]

A better translation for 'kake' would be 'to cover' or 'to apply something'. My former translation was rather vague and misleading. I know, I'm a poor translator. :D

Jap isn't rude at all. At least I wouldn't get offended by it, to be very honest. But I reckon it wouldn't be the best term to address higher representatives of Japan. :D

I wouldn't consider jap an equivalent for those words Stranger posted, as most Asians would definitely get offended by words like gook or *****.

[chen zhen]

"Nip"
"Chinc"
"Gook"
"Flip"
"Dink"
etc.
(I apologize for posting those terms)

"jap" can be shortened for "japanese" but those are not shortened words, but straight racism.
good to get it clear though.:)

btw what could busukake be translated as, sho?
:p

[Stranger]

Sho are you an American ex-pat living in Finland or are you a resident of Finland of Japanese ancestry?

My point being, I already admitted this might only be an American thing as far as the negative connotation. I wrote my MA thesis on cultural framing during the build up to the war between the US and Japan. At least in all the research I have gone through, the phrase has a nasty bite to it. You would never tell your sensei, if you studied Japanese martial arts, that he/she is a "Jap", or that for studying JMA one is a "Jap lover". Over here, "Jap" is not a kindly shortening like "Brits" or "Aussies".

If I have overstepped my place, I am sorry to Chen Zen and Sho. I was just trying to make the board a more pleasant place for all parties, but I admit the issues I tried to address might not have made anybody feel uncomfortable at all.

[Stranger]

"Nip" is a shortening of "Nipponese". I would say it has a bite of venom to it.

[chen zhen]

If I have overstepped my place, I am sorry to Chen Zen and Sho. I was just trying to make the board a more pleasant place for all parties, but I admit the issues I tried to address might not have made anybody feel uncomfortable at all.

no hard feelings. u had a right to stand up and comment it, if u've had bad experiences with that term.

its just that i have been accused of racism before on kfo, grounded in nothing (he was your typical cz-hater:cool: ), so I had to stand up and defend myself now as well.

[Stranger]

Cool. I never thought for a moment you were a racist based on the comment.

I am not a CZ-hater, in fact, I am pro-CZ.

Why may one ask?


I like ORA, I practice an ORA, and I'm all about the ORA forum, especially now that it is at an all time low in post traffic about Xebby's tiny pud :D .

I like Denmark, and I have Danish ancestors.

[chen zhen]

Ill pm u about that;)

[Sho]

Stranger, it's ok dude! :D

I'm a half-Japanese half-Finnish person grown up in Finland, in an international school. It might be an American thing, and to be honest, I've never really known many Japanese people so I have a biased view. Our school didn't have much Asian influence, so I couldn't share my opinions with anyone else (with Asian parentage) concerning racial discrimination. Fortunately, racism was never a problem in our school.

Different cultures tolerate racism differently. For example here in Finland, people take racism very lightly. It's very common among Finlanders to make rude jokes about foreigners, which is sick in my opinion, but perfectly acceptable in Finnish circles. The reason for this is probably just that internationality is such a new thing to Finland, that it will take more time for people to get past the most radical form of racial differentiation (and discrimination).

chen zhen, bukkake means to cover completely over something! For example, to cover oneself completely with blankets. :rolleyes:

[chen zhen]

so Bu=;):eek:

[Former castleva]

We may refer to Japanese as "japsi",just a shorter way to refer to someone of that nationality.You can take that as an equivalent of either ?rude? "jap" or simply a shorter way of putting it.
Is not referring to foreigners as "gaijin" (for example) somewhat rude,even?
(Sho?)

[Sho]

chen zhen, why do you ask? :D
Bu(ku) is a prefix to emphasize completeness.

I think 'gaijin' is a very arrogant and degrading term used by Japanese to denote foreign people. Gaigokujin is the correct and polite version.

[yenhoi]

racisms.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Stranger
"Nip" is a shortening of "Nipponese". I would say it has a bite of venom to it.

And "flip" is short for "filipino." But, oddly, the filipinos I've known wore the term proudly.

I'm not sure if they'd have felt differently about my using the term, as a 6'1" blond-haired, blue-eyed european. There seems to be a special clause about groups applying terms to themselves but not having them applied to them by people outside of that group. And I can respect that.


Stuart B.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Jap"'s negative connotation more or less comes from the use of the word by American G.I.'s during WWII. Its still negatively connotated. Makes my back tense up everytime I read it on here. Do other nationalities call Danish "dans"? Or Americans Ams? Amers? Do we refer to the Canadians on the board as "nucks"?
I dont think so. "Japanese" is only 5 letters longer than "jap". Most japanese that I have met are offended by the term, and out of resepect of those here and elsewhere, Id suggest use of a more appropriate term.

[Sho]

Originally posted by apoweyn
There seems to be a special clause about groups applying terms to themselves but not having them applied to them by people outside of that group.I agree.

[Shaolin-Do]

lol. We arent reffering to things like black comedians making fun of stereotypical white people are we?
lol. lol. lol.
Its ok, doesnt bother me. Ive got a little bit of every race in me. Im a mutt. Guess that means Im allowed to use all racist terms freely? :confused:
:D

^yes the last sentence is a joke. Racism is the most blatant show of ignorance and lack of capacity to think above the level of a 1st grader IMHO.
And btw, I just make fun of everybody. Theres no singling out here.
;)

[yenhoi]

I have found this link and its mother to be very interesting:

2002 Judo Article from the Journal of Compatative Sports or something like that. (http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsframe.htm)

thanks alot!

;)

[Shaolin-Do]

Interesting link.
Thx.

[Starchaser107]

HAILE SALASSIE, as he spoke to the United Nations in 1963:
" Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, everywhere is war...until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes, everywhere is war."

__________________________________________________ __

"There seems to be a special clause about groups applying terms to themselves but not having them applied to them by people outside of that group.' : Apowyn

this is true, but sometimes the quest for political correctness has caused us to be uptight and forget how to be human. not everyone is offended by these words, and they shouldn't be unless they were used intentionally to be spiteful.

the key concept here is intention, and we should excercize our common sense and discretion more when it comes to suchj matters.

for example if i refer to apowyn as ap. or chen zhen as cz , should they get offended?
should kung fu magazine forums be offended if we call it kfo, even though kung fu online is another site entirely, or even if we call it kfm?

but point taken, that certain things do have a negative connotation in certain societies , but not in others.

"Coolie" is used in Jamaica to refer to indian ppl, there isnt a prob with it, but , in Trinidad if a black person refers to an indian man as "Coolie" it might not go down so well.
Its a matter of socialization and culture, and for those that have been trying to be respectful of others feelings, then cheers to you.
you're good people. its just that sometimes it comes off as being a little "uptight"

[Shaolin-Do]

I live in the south. Ive seen and heard enough to assert that racists are ignorant biggets.
"Jap" is right there with "honky".
Im not going to list more terms. Just an example.
While it may not offend some, others who have seen and been around racism are bothered by it. Racism is just another way of trying to prove to oneself that they are better than they really are. Superiority groups. Elitist bigget ignorant fools. We should cut them and boil them in alcohol.

[Starchaser107]

and all I'm saying is , be careful not to burn the non-racist speaking freely and unaware that they are being offensive, while you're on your witch hunt.

n.b. there are ppl that arent racists intrinsically , and they are good and well meaning people, yet still they might make racist statements out of ignorance. should they be burnt as well?

[Shaolin-Do]

Nah dude, I wasnt refferring to anyone on here.
I just hate racists.
:)

I know there are people here who are speaking english as a 2nd language, and my prior posts were not meant as offense to them, as if they were, Id be a bigget myself.
;)

"yet still they might make racist statements out of ignorance. "

If they know its racist and comment anyways, they deserve a good slap in the least.
Sexism is always ok however.
:D

[Starchaser107]

:cool:

[Tak]

"Or Americans Ams? Amers?"

Nah, I think to most of the world it's something like, "Stupid Yankee *******s!"

[Serpent]

It is cultural, however. I grew up in England and there are a lot of Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants there. (Obviously, there's lots of other races too, but for the purposes of this example...)

There's a lot of rascism in the UK and anyone of sub-continental appearance is often referred to as a Paki. This is extremely derogatory in the UK and people using the term are usually ignorant rascist idiots.

However, in Australia there's a linguistic culture of speaking lazily and using a lot of shortened terms. Even on the tv during the cricket, for example, the Australian commentators will talk about the Aussies versus the Pakis, without a hint of any ill will. It's just the way they talk. Any Aussie would be mortified to think that the term could be rascist. (Well, most Aussies).

So, my point being, there are no universal rules.

[Serpent]

Also, in Australia, Americans are sometimes called Septics. It's short for septic tank which is ryhming slang for Yank.

:)

[Shaolin-Do]

Oh you clever aussies.

[Serpent]

Yah. We're very bright.

:)

[Toby]

Lol! I've always thought of Americans as Seppos. It can often be used in a derogatory way, though. I've never heard it anywhere else in the world, though...

[Serpent]

Yeah, Seppos is common all over Oz, but I've never heard it anywhere else. And I've been all over the world and heard Americans called a lot of things! ;)

When I first came to Oz I had to ask what it meant. That happened a lot, actually... :(

:D

[Toby]

Originally posted by Serpent
And I've been all over the world and heard Americans called a lot of things! ;) It's funny that Americans have such a poor image around the world. Most on here seem pretty cool. And my mother-in-law is American by birth and all her relatives are the nicest people. I've been there a few times and everyone I've met has been way nicer than the average Aussie, especially my Aussie mates. And that includes people in LA, NY, SF, Cleveland, Jackson, Aspen, they were nice everywhere I've been :confused: Are the only people who suck those who get on camera (film, TV)? Or does the camera transform the average cool American into a d!ck?

[Serpent]

I think you just have unusually high tolerance levels. ;)

[Shaolin-Do]

I am American and I will eat your babies.
We're that horrible. Believe it. Really.
:eek:




:rolleyes:

[Machine_Phantom]

Originally posted by Serpent
It is cultural, however. I grew up in England and there are a lot of Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants there. (Obviously, there's lots of other races too, but for the purposes of this example...)

There's a lot of rascism in the UK and anyone of sub-continental appearance is often referred to as a Paki. This is extremely derogatory in the UK and people using the term are usually ignorant rascist idiots.


For the consciousness of the nation
The sounds of the Asian Dub Foundation

[Serpent]

Asian Dub Foundation rule!

[yenhoi]

http://www.judoamerica.com/coaches/

:rolleyes:

racisms.

[Kristoffer]

yenhoi who are you calling racist you uptight ****er

[yenhoi]

Y, everyone on this thread except 7*, of course.

sweeedes :rolleyes:

[Kristoffer]

Guess your just uptight because your people have really small d1cks. :p

[chen zhen]

nah, i think thats just Y's problem:p

[Kristoffer]

I hate Y people. Yes, call me racist. I'm anti-Y

:D

[chen zhen]

unfortunately, theres too many Yenhois around:D

[Former castleva]

What´s up with this "debate" you´re always having?

[Black Jack]

Often their experience is with U.S. soldiers (young, rowdy, violent, {often inebriated}) and U.S. tourists (often behaving quite similar to off-duty soldiers).

I think that above passage is a stretch of the imagination and very shallow to say the least. Not to mention a front to U.S. military personal period. But everybody should be allowed to have there viewpoint.

[Kristoffer]

My experience with American tourists are that they are quite polite. Then again I don't exactly hang around with tourists but still

[chen zhen]

but they still have that *very* annoying accent..
:rolleyes:

[Toby]

Hi Cerebus,

As a serviceman, did you ever visit Garmisch-Partenkirchen? I used to spend a lot of time there while working just across the border in Austria. Lots of military types there. Nice town.

[Toby]

Yeah, I was ski instructing in Lermoos, Austria from 90-95. Made lots of trips up the Zugspitze. Did you go up the high chairlift right at the top where you go up a ridgeline and on one side there's a 1km vertical drop? You can also take the right hand t-bar from the 2 main t-bars near the restaurant and hike for 5 min and go by foot right to the edge. I was always too scared to do anything but crawl up to the edge on my stomach and elbows. Long way down! :eek:

Lots of good clubs in Garmisch. We used to go to the movies a lot then go to a club called Peaches and drink a ****tail that came in a champagne bucket.

Lol at your "Surprise" story!

[Toby]

Yeah, Peaches was more a ****tail lounge than a nightclub, so "sophisticated" women there.

One thing that I loved about it was table service. That applied to most places in Austria and Germany that I went to. As an Aussie, I still can't get over not having to get up and go to the bar to get your drinks. You can even run up a tab and pay at the end of the night at most places :cool: