newbie with a mission [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

ZEN

10-06-2003, 05:52 PM

i've only posted a couple times, but here's a basic description of what i'm looking for:

i'm a female, 5'6 about 130 lbs. (that was easy, huh guys) and i'm interested

at this point everything is a learning experience for me. even tho my training is pretty sporadic, my interest has been pretty consistent. MA, as i think the abbreviation goes, seems like so much F-U-N. it'll give me some kind of foundation, at least. knowledge is never a bad thing, so i'm going to try everything to attain it. unfortunately, my schedule now is pretty restrictive (normal 9-5.....statisticly [sp?] speaking, i'm proud to be a small town average american).

my training so far has consisted of boxing (guard, footwork,sense of range) sticks, and a few other arts. what would you suggest is the best start? i've been told that endurance training is pretty pointless. (although every kind of training, i believe, has its own benefit) i LOVE sticks (from what i've been exposed to, some of the Dog Brother footage is pretty gruesome)

anyway, i think thats a good start....

***me***

Shaolin-Do

10-06-2003, 06:00 PM

Not really such thing as a "best" art.
If you like stick work try some Kali or Escrima.
Go to a couple kung fu schools and try a class.
Maybe Tai Chi. Silat is pretty tight too.
:)
It all depends on what you're looking for. Best bet is to check out a c ouple schools and see how you feel abou them.

CaptinPickAxe

10-06-2003, 06:51 PM

Just stay away from that TKD, it turns good kids into thugs.

welcome to the forum,ZEN

SevenStar

10-06-2003, 07:07 PM

from what you listed that you've had exposure to, I'd say stick with what you are doing, if it's comfortable to you. Look for Yenhoi on this forum. He's in NV also and has similar training.

ZEN

10-06-2003, 09:24 PM

what do you guys think about Judo? I am aware of Silat, Kali, & a vague sense of Tai chi.

Keep it comin' guys.....

***me***

SevenStar

10-06-2003, 09:37 PM

I love judo (I'm also biased, as it's one of the arts I currently train in)

It's a good solid art that will teach you some good solid skills. Being a woman, grappling knowledge would only benefit you.

What exactly are you looking for in an art?

Ikken Hisatsu

10-06-2003, 09:47 PM

whoever told you endurance training is a waste of time needs his head boiled in urine. but yeah- it depends on what you are doing. Hapkido, kung fu, tai chi chuan, karate- these all take time and patience to become useful. I have been doing kung fu for about 9 months, but even that is just laying the foundations. If you want to be able to defend yourself now, I'd go for judo. not being sexist here but it's a plain fact that boxing isn't going to help you, being a woman. I myself considered it but I just don't have the build- I can either become a good kung fu practitioner or a mediocre boxer.

So yeah. Judo is based on using your opponents weight against them so it's quite popular amongst the girls I know who do martial arts. Other than that wing Chun is quite good- It was after all developed by a woman and is about misdirection, not strength.

Of course its entirely up to you, I suggest going to a few classes of anything near you and then choosing what you like the best. any instructor that won't let you have at least one free session isn't worth your time. (that or they are amazingly good, but in small town america I wouldn't bank on it)

Serpent

10-06-2003, 09:48 PM

And where are you?

If we know more of what you want and where you are then people here can probably point you at a few good schools.

Serpent

10-06-2003, 09:56 PM

D'oh! Just saw Reno, NV under your name. That should do it!

So, are you into the boxing, do you want something more "esoteric", more practical for sport competition? Do you want a primarily weapons based or empty hand based style? Etc.

Serpent

10-06-2003, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
not being sexist here but it's a plain fact that boxing isn't going to help you, being a woman.

You're an idiot. And that was sexist.

I'd love to see you go up against Muhammed Ali's daughter sometime.

Ikken Hisatsu

10-06-2003, 10:10 PM

yeah poor choice of words- against a big dastardly mugger, it won't be as effective as say, judo. (I thought thats what I said... bleh too little sleep)

Serpent

10-06-2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
yeah poor choice of words- against a big dastardly mugger, it won't be as effective as say, judo. (I thought thats what I said... bleh too little sleep)

Well, even that is a misleading statement. Really, grabbing hold of a big bad mugger and trying to throw him could be worse than trying to smack him in the ear and leg it.

Tak

10-06-2003, 10:46 PM

Well, even that is a misleading statement. Really, grabbing hold of a big bad mugger and trying to throw him could be worse than trying to smack him in the ear and leg it.

Get the best of both worlds - crosstrain in kung fu and swai jiao (is this a valid pinyinization, or just a misspelling?)

Serpent

10-06-2003, 11:16 PM

That would be a mis-spelling. I think the accepted version Shuai Chiao. Or something like that.

Anyway, SC ;) on it's own would teach striking and throwing, so no cross training needed necessarily. Judo might be good for the throws and newaza.

Any good kung fu system should have throws, locks and submissions anyway, but there are few good systems around. And other arts certainly emphasise this stuff more. Some of the Indonesian and Philipino arts empahsise more stick and knife work.

In truth, it boils down to what's available to Zen. She might really like the idea of SC, but if there's no school near her then it's academic. Unless she's prepared to move!

So, anyone know what good schools there are in Reno?

ZIM

10-07-2003, 05:46 AM

To my online ears, it sounded like ZEN was saying she wants to master an art, not just do one for self defense [maybe she already has that down to a degree and wants the rest, who knows...].

So IMHO, that kind of changes the topic slightly from the usual "blah blah, this art versus that one for X body type" arguments.

If so- my questions might start thuslike:
-you like weapons and especially sticks, I'm guessing, so is there a reason to not follow FMAs?

-are you wanting to find a weapons-oriented Kung Fu versus an empty-hand one? Would the order of training [weapons first or after] make a difference? Are ther other types of trainings you are after [like iron palm, etc]

-how much time are you willing to make in your daily life to pursue this, and how much time are you willing to devote towards attaining competence, let alone mastery [I mean how impatient are you]?

-are you looking to teach?

-are you willing to get involved with an extended Kung Fu family and work to support that, even if it means losing money or students? This isn't always the case, but some family cultures are different from others- some are commercially savvy, some very traditional,etc. Honesty here, is a good thing- it helps to find the type of organization that'd support your goals best.

If I'm in error in my suppositions then none of this matters much, perhaps.

yenhoi

10-07-2003, 08:38 AM

:eek:

ZEN

10-07-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by SevenStar
What exactly are you looking for in an art?

well, at this point i'm pretty open-minded. i'm looking for something that will provide me with a means to defend myself in almost any situation. not necessarily "self-defense" but i want to get to a point where "i didn't move the hand, it moved itself". Judo seems to fit my situation as of now, from what i know of it. it seems like it covers most of the basics, isnt TOO "skill" oriented and you get to wear a shnazy gi. LOL Also, there is a judo club here in reno, i might check it out. (thanks Shaolin, i have a few schools in mind)

Ikken- what benfits do you personally get from doing endurance training? what kind of workout are you on right now?

and then came ZIM-

first of all, you guys have to understand i dont know the "lingo" just yet.......*blushing*.......what is FMA? formal martial arts? just a guess...

second, i think learning with a weapon would make learning open-handed combat easier. the sense of range is much different between a 3-foot long stick vs. my tiny little hands. i suppose getting better at a longer range would make close-range seem more.....comfortable.

thirdly, depends on what you mean by impatient. that word has both positive and negative conotations. i'm not in this for a "quick fix" if thats what you mean. on the other hand, i think a certain level of impatience creates a sense of urgency for knowledge. dont know if that makes sense.....

fourthly, isnt the ultimate goal to get the point where you CAN teach?

fifthly (whew) money.....what a silly thing.

*thanks ZIM*

okay, i gotta get back to the real world now, thanks so much guys

***me***

p.s i only get one time a day to answer back, guys, so dont think i'm abandoning you! an answer is on its way, i promise.....
:D

@PLUGO

10-07-2003, 05:07 PM

I'm guessing the FMA mean Filipino Martial Arts... and from what your saying about stick to hand techniques you might want to look into that... what caused to to dabble in it and stop?

Escrima, Kali or Arnis pretty much do what you mentioned... start with a stick then later show you how to apply it with a hand.

I'm personally a fan of Wing Chun. For me it's very structural in theory and thus the sooner you learn the structer, hand positions etc... the quicker you'll be able to apply it.

Judo's always looked like alot of grabbing and so I've tended to prefer Jujitsu or akido for similar style throwing with less (IMO) grabbing.

Of course this is all relative to what's available in your area... perhaps after you've found some potential school posting them here could lead to some interesting discourse.

neigung

10-07-2003, 06:36 PM

First and most important, what schools are available in your area?

Toby

10-07-2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by ZEN
Ikken- what benfits do you personally get from doing endurance training? what kind of workout are you on right now?

Well, I'm not Ikken, but I'm a fan of endurance work. I do Taku's intervals (derived from the Tabata protocol). Here's a link:

http://trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml

Highly recommended. Benefits? I'm losing fat, gaining explosive strength, and I'm starting to get what Taku calls a 30-gallon gas tank. Very different to traditional jogging endurance work. I do 2 or 3 laps of my local oval in total which takes about 6 min and my workout's done. After doing it for about 2 months now, I'm yet to hit my endurance limits in my WC classes, yet I would before I started.

I'm also on a strength program at the same time. I wouldn't want to do the interval training without maintaining strength.

Hope that helps.

ZEN

10-07-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Design Sifu
what caused to to dabble in it and stop?

i haven't stopped, i think i'll stick with....uh....sticks for the rest of my life. its pretty low impact (if you want it to be) and the benefits are enormous. i've also learned a bit of knife, although i still have that image of a knife sticking out of my foot....*blushing*

Orignially posted by neigung
First and most important, what schools are available in your area?

more than enough TKD schools. i've visited some of their sparring sessions just to check them out. i dont think i should need to say anymore... ;)

A bunch of Aikido schools, which i haven't even had a chance to look into let alone go visit. BTW, could you guys give me some basic information on what basic principle Aikido teaches?

The Nevada Judo Club. This club is based out of the university, which is cool in itself because there are a lot of young minds (i assume, i haven't actually seen it) this is the judo club i was interested in joining. i'll definetely look into it before i commit my bank account to anything.......

The Nevada Kali Group. This is where i've gained most of my exposure to martial arts. Their creedo is "Conservatory of Motion & Movement" and its a pretty informal, yet effective learning environment. this is where i learned how to do the sticks, knife, sensitivity, punching, etc.

not too shabby, huh? still, pretty limited (IMO)

***me***

Serpent

10-07-2003, 09:52 PM

Aikido, very boradly speaking, is a system of throws and submissions, using the opponent's energy and momentum against them. Good for a small person.

However, sounds to me like you should stick (pardon the pun once again) with the Kali school. You could always crosstrain in the judo or aikido if it took your fancy to do so.

Of course, this is assuming that the Kali group know their stuff.

Shaolin-Do

10-07-2003, 10:19 PM

"boradly"
That aussie slang?
;)

Aikido seems like a lot of senseless spinning around. Lots of showing your back to the opponent.

T'ai Ji Monkey

10-07-2003, 10:26 PM

Many of the japanese and chinese arts also use stick and staff.
Aikido is one of those that uses sticks quiet a bit.

I would recommend to study a style that can fit comfortably into your current schedule.

IMO, if you train your art correctly and consistently than you should not need additional endurance training, of course opinions on this will vary.

Said that TJQ can be a tough workout if done correctly and you do the form 10-times nonstop.

Anyhuh best of luck in you studies.

ZIM

10-08-2003, 06:04 AM

ZEN, you did a great job in answering everything- I'll just clarify from my POV a couple things that I saw in your response.

FMA= Filipino Martial Arts, yep. Abbreviations are just an online convention, no worries.

Not everybody has an interest in teaching... I tend to look at it as a different skill set, myself. But, you emphasized 'CAN', so there's no problem with it...:)

The last point wasn't really all that much about money actually, but about Family- a pretty important topic in CMAs. [Chinese MAs ;)]

Good luck!

No_Know

10-08-2003, 09:44 AM

Aikido seems to be about having Center and space about that center and maintaining those while using momemtum and redirecting and creating force/speediness with curves~.

There's even some about a short staff and techniques with that. They defend against Katana and tanto (Japanese sword and knife) Usually use wooden versions.

Aikido seems interactive/ Hands-on.

ZEN

10-08-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Aikido seems like a lot of senseless spinning around. Lots of showing your back to the opponent.

vs.

Originally posted by No_Know
Aikido seems to be about having Center and space about that center and maintaining those while using momemtum and redirecting and creating force/speediness with curves

:confused:

Aikido sounds a bit Wing Chun-y to me. Having a Center and mass outside the Center.

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

***me***

Dark Knight

10-08-2003, 11:57 AM

The Judo club at UNR is only during the semesters. Jack is old but he has been around forever.

There is a kung fu School in Sparks, I forget the name, he is part of a big organization and they seem to be OK. They teach a harder style below Black that is effective for self defense in the beginning and they get more complex as you progress (Per my discussion with the instructor 4 years ago)

West Coast TKD is in a couple locations. The one at the Base of rattlesnake Mt is pretty good. It is high energy, positive motivation type of school. If you are looking for personal growth through a Tony Robbins type of world, go to them. They are good people, but TKD is not an in depth style, (Also a sport)

Call European Fitness, they have a martial arts class there, but they change a lot. Also they do contracts, very hard to get out of.

There is a BJJ school in southern Reno. Effective style, very physical. I know a couple students there but not the instructor.

Family Karate Center. Senseis John and Carla Bennett, Reno, NV Phone: (702) 786-4441

Sierra Jujitsu & Karate. Sensei John F. Chatwood, Carson City, NV. Home: (702) 885-1671

Sierra Jujitsu & Karate. Sensei John F. Chatwood, Carson City, NV. Home: (702) 885-1671

Cane Masters is in Lake Tahoe. Worth checking out. Mark Shuey, Incline Village, NV. Phone: (775) 831-8789.
They are pretty well known nationally. A great weapon that looks innocent.

www.canemasters.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yenhoi

10-08-2003, 12:06 PM

Tiger Kung Fu in sparks, No sparring, last I checked.

Krav maga in the south, has open fight nights on thursdays, boxing rules.

MMA school near airport.

Cage Fighting in Cold Springs.

I heard that the Nevada Kali Group has the correct locked up in someones basement. Once a week they let it out and beat it bloody.

:p

yenhoi

10-08-2003, 12:07 PM

Tiger Kung Fu is part of Doc's Plum Blossom Assoc. They teach Choy Li Fut and Tai Chi

:eek:

ZIM

10-08-2003, 02:48 PM

Aikido sounds a bit Wing Chun-y to me. Having a Center and mass outside the Center. Erm, no.

Wing Chun is about arguing over split hairs and lineages, while Aikido is about wearing a dress and screaming "not in the face! not in the face!" ;)

Seriously, though, they're very different- the thing is they are both conceptually-based arts that share similar theoretical ideas [and Tai Chi has nearly the same]. So, what may sound alike onscreen is often radically different in practice. But theres no way I could do any of them justice in a few sentences.

Videos and articles may help, so:
http://www.knoxwingchun.com/norm/tech/tech.htm

http://aikido-france.net/video/index.php?NewLang=en

I suppose some good starts are there. Of the schools mentioned above, my personal taste would lean towards Tiger style or the Choy Lee Fut [all things being equal, that is]. CLF has a large array of weapons techniques, IIRC. After that the Cane Masters.

Go for the best teacher, regardless of style.

Serpent

10-08-2003, 05:44 PM

Yep, based on what people are saying about the schools and on Zen's requirements, I would suggest the Choy Lee Fut or the Kali, assuming the teachers of each know their stuff.

yenhoi

10-08-2003, 06:51 PM

IMO the Choy Li Fut place belongs in the TKD category.

:confused:

I am biased. (http://jump.to/nkg)

;)

Serpent

10-08-2003, 07:05 PM

Oh, that's a shame.

:(

SevenStar

10-09-2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by ZEN

well, at this point i'm pretty open-minded. i'm looking for something that will provide me with a means to defend myself in almost any situation. not necessarily "self-defense" but i want to get to a point where "i didn't move the hand, it moved itself". Judo seems to fit my situation as of now, from what i know of it. it seems like it covers most of the basics, isnt TOO "skill" oriented and you get to wear a shnazy gi. LOL Also, there is a judo club here in reno, i might check it out. (thanks Shaolin, i have a few schools in mind)

Not sure what you mean by TOO skill oriented... Once you start judo, you'll see why I say that ;)

first of all, you guys have to understand i dont know the "lingo" just yet.......*blushing*.......what is FMA? formal martial arts? just a guess...

FMA - fillipino martial arts
CMA - chinese martial arts
MMA - mixed martial arts
BJJ - brazilian jiu jutsu
TCMA traditional chinese martial arts
MT - muay thai
TKD - tae kwon do
SC - shuai chiao
WC - wing chun
TTT - to the top
IMO - in my oppinion
IMHO - in my humble oppinion
SD - shaolin do
WTF - what the fugg?
AFAIK - as far as I know
KFO - kung fu online
SSIK - SevenStar is king
1337 - you're not ready for that one yet...

Those are the commonly used acronyms here. Learn those and you'll be okay. :)

second, i think learning with a weapon would make learning open-handed combat easier. the sense of range is much different between a 3-foot long stick vs. my tiny little hands. i suppose getting better at a longer range would make close-range seem more.....comfortable.

you lost me on that one... let's say I'm a kicker. How is fighting from kicking range gonna help me in grappling range? IMO, it won't.

thirdly, depends on what you mean by impatient. that word has both positive and negative conotations. i'm not in this for a "quick fix" if thats what you mean. on the other hand, i think a certain level of impatience creates a sense of urgency for knowledge. dont know if that makes sense.....[b/]

urgency for knowledge, or urgency for skill development?

[b]fourthly, isnt the ultimate goal to get the point where you CAN teach?

depends on the person.

okay, i gotta get back to the real world now, thanks so much guys

pretty soon, KFO will be your real world...

T'ai Ji Monkey

10-09-2003, 01:15 AM

Zen.

Most MA will start you off on hand-to-hand combat and weapons training later on.
Most systems do have a form of stick/staff training.

As a woman you WILL need to get comfortable in the grappling range as this is most likely where you will find yourself.
Keeping guys at bay and at long-range is desireable but an unrealistic expectation, IMO.

fourthly, isnt the ultimate goal to get the point where you CAN teach?

Many join the MA with the goal of ending up teaching and running their own school.

Practising MA and teaching MA are very different skills and your average MA training will NOT cover the teaching aspect.

Judo seems to fit my situation as of now, from what i know of it. it seems like it covers most of the basics, isnt TOO "skill" oriented and you get to wear a shnazy gi.

Judo is VERY skill orientated, you won't find many MA that are not skill orientated, IMO.

The Dogi/keikogi is a nice training outfit, but you won't be wearing it outside of training, so be warned that a tech working on the mat might not work in the street unless you learned to adjust it for everyday clothing.

Just some additional thoughts.

Ikken Hisatsu

10-09-2003, 02:46 AM

also, having skill with staffs etc is all very well but how often do you actually carry a 5 foot pole around the street with you? or a dirty great knife?

Merryprankster

10-09-2003, 03:05 AM

Judo is an excellent art. A little low on the striking (ok, pretty much non-existant most places), but it has several advantages:

1. Men attacking you are most likely going to grab you. They know they are likely to out-muscle you, so they will put themselves in a position to do so. That means up close and personal and in your face. Why give you a chance to escape if I can control your movement? Judo teaches you an awful lot about what to do here (ie, throwing) and goes a long way towards mitigating those strength and size advantages in a grappling situation.

2. You will learn enough groundfighting to handle yourself appropriately. Judo newaza (groundgrappling) isn't all that refined most places you go, but it's good enough for the most part to make you kinesthetically aware of HOW to move on the ground. I can't tell you how important this is. Moving on the ground is very very different from moving on your feet. You CANNOT just "do the same techniques standing as on the ground" and expect them to work. You've got to get a real feel for it. Just getting that experience will put you light years ahead of most attackers.

3. You'll learn to use clothing as a weapon. Many throws revolve around the gripping. You can control people who aren't familiar with grips like babies. As a caveat, you MUST practice without the gi as well if you are serious about using Judo for self-defense. You need to know how to do things in case your attacker is sans grabable clothing :D. You will also learn how to choke people with their shirts.

4. Judo is easily available across the United States and there are usually at least one or two good clubs in any given metropolitan area. No offense to the CMA or Karate guys, but the same cannot be said for them. They are out there, but it's just not as easy to find. If you pick up and move, I can almost guarentee you there is Judo somewhere reasonably nearby, with reasonable rates.

The only disadvantages revolve around weapons and strikes--but you can supplement your training as need be, using Judo as a strong base.

Xebsball

10-09-2003, 04:10 AM

OOOOOOOOHHHHH its a LADY!

That's it, im skipping today's biochemistry class just for you!

Sevenstar forgot another lingo:
LUV - is what i do to the ladies

Dark Knight

10-09-2003, 04:42 AM

Yenhoi

Where is your school located at in Reno? I have moved to Virginia but lived in Reno. When I first moved there in 1991 there was West Coast TKD and very few other schools. Now there are a ton of schools. It seems like everyone moved to Reno and opened something.

No_Know

10-09-2003, 09:09 AM

Aikido basically has no punching nor Kicks.

Aikido uses arms as part square and as triangles to deal with grabs. Aikido uses joint manipulation and movement.

yenhoi

10-09-2003, 09:44 AM

Dark Knight: We dont have a school, we have a teacher. We meet in basements, garages, parks, police stations, and other peoples schools all over town.

There really isent much here in Reno itself. What is here is highly under-developed.

It even lacks any real Judo, just the club at the University, which is very surprizing, most places have 3-4 competitive judo joints.

There is lots of TKD, Karate, and Aikido.

The bright side is that Lake Tahoe is like 30 minutes away and Sacramento an easy 2 hours or so.

;)