Ross vs. Abel

[Water Dragon]

OK, here's the situation as I see it

Sifu Abel. Upset that Coach Ross has given up the majority of "traditional" training. Feels that Coach Ross is disrespecting the CMA with his approach.

Coach Ross. Feels that Sifu Abel's training produces pretty forms, but not fighting ability. Thinks the "traditional" method is inefficient.

Since both of you train people, why don't each one of you train a fighter, and put them in the ring against each other? If there's a lopsided victory, we'll know if one method is better than the other. If the fight is close, we'll know both methods are valid.

[norther practitioner]

And if you both to decide to represent your own camps, then the masses will be happy... sorta.

[Water Dragon]

I think they're both a little too old for fighting themselves. Unless they are younger than I'm thinking.

[joedoe]

Didn't sifu Ross accept a challenge with Mao Shan?
And I have seen pictures of sifu Abel and while he is older :) he is not that old.

[ZEN]

you know what i think?

i think that a kung fu forum should be about kung fu, not about two guys's ego's and whatnot

*just wanted you guys to get a chick's perspective.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by ZEN
you know what i think?

i think that a kung fu forum should be about kung fu, not about two guys's ego's and whatnot

*just wanted you guys to get a chick's perspective.

You are soooooo new to this forum aren't you? :D

[rubthebuddha]

i think ZEN just showed us up. :mad:



;)

normally, i'd say royce would win, but in this case, it's ZEN by armbar.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Zen.

The Forum is not about CMA, but about *****ing, moaning and calling other styles useless and for issuing useless challenges.

Once you get deeper into the study of Kung Fu you will realise that lineage and insulting others become more important than actual skill and fighting ability.
:D

[BAI HE]

It's a public pool. Take a p*i*s*s* everyone else is.

[Kristoffer]

*zips up*



Once you get deeper into the study of Kung Fu you will realise that lineage and insulting others become more important than actual skill and fighting ability.

:p

[lkfmdc]

While a lot of people in Chinese martial art now subscribe to a new age, feel good, tree hugging philosophy (which is their right of course), a lot of us DO NOT, and whether you accept it or not, we are actually more in line with the real tradition

At least in this Abel and I do seem to agree :)

[MonkeySlap Too]

You know, I am the world's greatest badmitton player, but I never play against another person, because I would not want them to feel bad.

THAT is how most of KFO sounds to me.

Martial arts are about fighting, and there are all kinds of forums to test that skill. If you do not fight in some way, you are doing aerobics or folk art - but not martial arts.

Not to say that it should ONLY be about fighting. But for gosh sakes, why DO martial arts if you are unwilling to be martial?

Yeah, yeah,yeah, I know ALL the arguments - which why most of the time I'd rather have a Judo guy or a Muay Thai guy or a boxer at my back in a bar. Which is embarrasing, frankly.

And if you are too old, or to injured to fight - that's what students are for.

BTW - the real ego is the ego that does not let you test your skill and learn from your losses.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
While a lot of people in Chinese martial art now subscribe to a new age, feel good, tree hugging philosophy (which is their right of course), a lot of us DO NOT, and whether you accept it or not, we are actually more in line with the real tradition

At least in this Abel and I do seem to agree :)

I love how lkmdfc frames this as an either or argument. Your either a tree hugging hippy or you're in his camp.

The real truth is that fighting ability should ALWAYS be tempered with "character development" or you are just creating a killing machine.

In the old days it would be like giving a kid a gun and not telling him when it was appropriate to use it or not.

There is a long tradition of this "character development" in martial arts training whether you are talking about Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim or Family lineages of kung fu.

[Shaolin-Do]

"I am the world's greatest badmitton player, but I never play against another person, "

What? Trying to take my title!?
I shall smash you with my badmitton prowess.
The man in the chair behind you is me! And I sit smugly brandishing my badmitton raquet and golden birdie that thus proves my superior playing ability....
:eek:

[Shaolin-Do]

*There is a long tradition of this "character development" in martial arts training whether you are talking about Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim or Family lineages of kung fu.*

Which would more or less be the duty of a sifu to instill these traits... Which has been argued with me before... recently.... :rolleyes:


:D

[phantom]

This fight will not prove the superiority of either approach, it will just prove the fighting ability of two people. Actually, it might not even prove that, as anyone can get caught on a bad day. I feel that it is a shame that two grown men feel that they need to fight each other to make themselves feel better. What makes it even worse is that they are both sifus, one of which is pretty well-known, both of whom have students who view them as role models. All this because they dislike each others training methods. What a shame. If sifu ross really does disapprove of traditional kung fu methods, then why does his site still claim that they teach tibetan and indian martial arts at his school? At any rate, I like both of these guys. I feel they have given both myself and others on here very good insight on various martial arts topics. I am just very saddened that they let things get under their skins so bad that they are so easily ready to resort to violence to solve their problems. I hope they see the error of their ways before one or both of them gets injured, in legal trouble, or both. I pray for you two. If you are not religious, that's cool, too. Peace.

[Shaolin-Do]

I know how to settle it. I will pay for them both to fly to texas. I will then build a gigantic stainless steel ring. We will fill the ring with vicious land pirahnas,(sp?)
I will then fight Abel and Ross 2vs1, with my feet tied to my hands and a blindfold made of barbed wire.
Thats the only way to know who is better of the 2.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Oh get over it. I've fought people I've disagreed with. Won and lost. Had good days and bad days. Don't feel the need to be an all-powerful 'sifu' hiding behind a moral cloud.

The first rule of self-defense is to be a good person. The second rule is to be able to back it up so you know if you negotiate peace, you are not just doing because you HAVE to.

The fight may not 'prove' anything to the moral relativists out there who can reduce any event into a pile of existential thought skimmings, but fighting can prove a few things.

1.) If one loses BADLY - he needs to look at his training.
2.) If it is close - there will be grudging respect - maybe even friendship.

Both are good results.

I'm not saying be a bully or cruel, but I am also saying if you claim to do martial arts - do it. Or stop pretending.

---SD - we ALL know that SD does not do real badmitton - it is just ping-pong mixed with tennis! :D

[Shaolin-Do]

You just fear my golden birdie.
Admit it!
:eek:



:D

I think all of our trolling has stupidified their argument back into nothingness... Aha!
Ha! Aha. haha. ha....
i think the spider bite on my leg belongs to a brown recluse. I hope he comes to take it back before it gets any larger.
:(

[Chang Style Novice]

Results of the Sifu Abel vs. lkfmdc fight. (http://thesurrealist.co.uk/monster.cgi?att=Sifu+Abel&def=lkfmdc&a=S)

[Shaolin-Do]

Abel sure is lucky he spits water jets.

[lkfmdc]

Fu Pow, still trying to make up stuff and pass it off as "something I heard"? You're near Seattle aren't you? I actually have family there now, should be there in December. Care to cross hands and you can show me how wonderful you are?

[lkfmdc]

I would clearly prefer to be Mothra, not only is it more intelligent, but it also has two cute Japanese midgets that hang around with it :D

[Shaolin-Do]

HO Noh! Eets Mofra!
Save os Gamara, Save os!

[shaolin kungfu]

****, looks like i lost to SD (http://thesurrealist.co.uk/monster.cgi?att=shaolin+do&def=shaolin+kungfu&a=S) :(

[Shaolin-Do]

"Giant Dragon that Stomps Around a Lot, Tunnels Underground, controls the Weather, drinks Human Blood, and has a single Horn on its Forehead."

With powers like that, none shall defeat me!
Especially at badmitton.
:eek:

:D

[SifuAbel]

If you guys were spinning things for Gray Davis he might still be govenor.

Its helpful to actually read the whole thread. Particularly the place were the "war" begins.

Lets see. ..........
I say:

"I'd like to know how your jow ga teacher would react to you saying in effect that his style is useless. And that goes for many other s here, *cough* ross *cough* cough* "

Just a question directed at st00 and in passing to ross since he's ignored this question many times. NOT a personal attack. He has attacked others for not viewing things his way. He has tried to put an artificial rift betwwen san shou and TCMA. I am just responding to those comments.


He says:

"Hey A-hole, I mean ABEL, I wonder if you'd have the f-in nerve to say crap to my FACE, probably NOT...."

If thats not a heads up I don't know what is. It IS a personal attack. So there is the challnge NOT made by me, but by him.

I say:

"Ross, glad you can make it., your face? anytime, remember boy, I don't punk out to your credentials ." ...and so on

I respond in agreement to say this in his face and to follow with action.

Its amazing how I've gone from a "point fighting clown" with no real background to one of the non tree hugging types that fight.

Then I get:
"Unlike you, I am an ADOPTED DISCIPLE of a famous, world respected sifu. Unlike you, I'm accepted by famous teachers around the world, many are friends of mine. Unlike you, I run a school in one of the major mecca's of martial arts, not a little obscure place no one has ever heard of."

In one fell swoop for daring to ask a question, my school, my teachers and I get roasted and defiled. So I'm supposed to just bend over and say "yes sir"? BS on that noise.

BTW, on the shaloin side alone I can trace to People Like Kenny Chin and Chan kwok Wei. So you aren't the only one with a famous lineage. Gus Rubio, my teacher, was just in Inside Kung fu last year. I'd say people have heard of us.


You guys don't like it, I don't care. Its not you and your entire martial family that has been gutted verbally, and for what?

I either get a verbal retraction for this now, Or I get to retract some of your teeth later. Choice is yours.

If this doesn't clarify things for all of you then nothing will. Please no "rubbernecking".

This thing is really about nothing else.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Its not you and your entire martial family that has been gutted verbally, and for what?"
Dude, can you not read my name? :rolleyes:

And weve already gone over this before. Its not going to solve anything.
Have some flan. And a beer. Maybe a couple of poriquas.
mmmm...... Poriquas....
Poriqua morena, poriqua morena.

[SifuAbel]

Oh just SHUT UP!!

Would you please just shut........ up...........

Who the HELL cares. I may not like Shaolin do but I'm going to give it its space and respect its teachers.

[MasterKiller]

Its not going to solve anything.

Sometimes, action is not about solution, but about resolution.

[Shaolin-Do]

"I may not like Shaolin do but I'm going to give it its space and respect its teachers"

Cool. :)

Its just not going anywhere. Its gotten grossly redundant.

"Sometimes, action is not about solution, but about resolution."
Whats arguing here going to resolve?

Im with NP's Paypal idea. Like I said, I got 5 on it.
;)

[SifuAbel]

Oh its going somewhere. I have the unfortunate affliction of haveing a really good memory.

[fa_jing]

I know how Shaolin-Do likes the puerquitas....

[MasterKiller]

Whats arguing here going to resolve? Notice I said action, not arguing....If Abel carries out his plans to conclusion, it will result in a resolution, one way or another.

Now, get off his nutz, SD. I'm on Abel's side here.

[Shaolin-Do]

Im on neither side.
Im not on nuts.
Those who take sides are "on the nutz".

"I have the unfortunate affliction of haveing a really good memory."

hehehe... I could show you some ways to take care of that.
;)
Actually my long term memory is pretty good still. I think.
:D

[Shaolin-Do]

" I know how Shaolin-Do likes the puerquitas.... "

lofl. No I do not enjoy hefty fun.
But fat chicks give great bj's I hear.
:eek:

[Mutant]

bahahaha , this whole thing is so freakin ridiculous :D :D :D

i think shaolin-do is the only one who's scored any points in this whole mess. :p

sifu abel, i see why your feathers are ruffled... but if you really want payback, the only logical way to put an end to this (for all of our sake, if not your own) is to come to the new jersey san da tourny next month and fight sifu ross in the ring under san da rules, or no rules whatever.... if its really that big a deal to you, then the cost of a plane ticket to nyc would be negligable - shoot, you could probably get your peeps to sponser you if they believe in the 'cause' and think you can win. heck, a lot of us pay money to fly around and fight just for the competition, let alone upholding some kind of lineage honor or personality conflict. only a month left, better step up the training. you can do it man, do it for johnny! :D

sifu ross, you've got to be one of the biggest instigators and ball-busters on the entire web. :D

btw, can any of you guys hook me up with some quality flan? not cut with anything nasty, just pure flan. i'm dyin for a fix... i heard that the kfo chinese mafia is the best source for flan. :eek:

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Fu Pow, still trying to make up stuff and pass it off as "something I heard"? You're near Seattle aren't you? I actually have family there now, should be there in December. Care to cross hands and you can show me how wonderful you are?

Sure. Just PM me or email me when it gets closer to the date.

Email is fu_pow@hotmail.com.

You are welcome to come down to my Sifu's school and cross hands.

You know that my Sifu Mak is an honorable traditional Sifu and there won't be any monkey business.

[ZEN]

*sigh*

men.....

talk about getting redundant. i think i basically read the same thing....lets count......14.5 times

i'm assuming most of you were glad to get out of highschool.....why are you so eager to go back? bickering is just a waste of time.....

but then again, so is responding to the bickering......

***me***

[Water Dragon]

Maybe they can solve this by having a flan eating contest.

[apoweyn]

Get used to it Zen. Stuff like this is every bit as much a part of the martial arts 'scene' as any idealized visions of enlightened and benevolent Miyagi types. Moreso actually.

People invest. Then they bicker. [shrug]

And yes, I personally was glad to get out of high school.


Stuart B.

[MasterKiller]

but then again, so is responding to the bickering.........so is trying to convince a woman that she doesn't know what she's talking about. Men are not women, and our priorities include other things besides shoe sales, cute puppy dogs, and "meeting-cute" movies.

Why don't you go make your boyfriend a nice chicken-pot-pie now?

[Shaolin-Do]

<- thinks MK woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.
Maybe I should mail you some flan.
You know what? I forgot that we recently took on a new company - Lake view farms - who includes flan in their product line. I think we have some in the cooler.
:D

[brothernumber9]

respect is a big deal to a lot of people, someone feels they've been disrespected and often enough wether for themselves or for someone else they want the offender to know that they cannot just disrespect them like that without some feedback either verbal or written or physical or any combination there of. This was a publicly displayed instance between two chinese matial arts sifu. Both feel they have been disrespected and offended. It is between them and no one else. This happened on a pulic forum so naturally people will add thier opinions and observations but it is still between two people and no one else. I think implications that Sifu Ross has disregard for traditional chinese martial arts in favor of san shou is a contextual misinterperataion. I think his gripe was about schools that claim to teach traditional cma but forsake full contact training. It is moot to remember who got hot first, but it happened and until one cedes which will not be done on this forum then respect between the two will not be gained back or given. I wouldn't be surprised if after they fight that they become amicable and grab a drink or something. Just the same that is for them to decide.

[Starchaser107]

"Men are not women"

Mk has hit the correct for a home run using a feminist activist as a baseball bat, and then laughed heartily at it.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
...so is trying to convince a woman that she doesn't know what she's talking about. Men are not women, and our priorities include other things besides shoe sales, cute puppy dogs, and "meeting-cute" movies.

Why don't you go make your boyfriend a nice chicken-pot-pie now?

Wow. That took an unexpected turn.

[CaptinPickAxe]

a bit sexist, prehaps.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
a bit sexist, prehaps.

Originally posted by ZEN
*sigh*

men.....

[Shaolin-Do]

:confused:

[lkfmdc]

Abel, did you ever graduate high school? Seriously, dude, you can not apparently read and understand what is being written

"While a lot of people in Chinese martial art now subscribe to a new age, feel good, tree hugging philosophy (which is their right of course), a lot of us DO NOT, and whether you accept it or not, we are actually more in line with the real tradition

At least in this Abel and I do seem to agree"

IE, to anyone who can read, I am saying at least you and I are NOT the tree hugging type.

****, you don't bother reading anything do you? I actually give you credit for something and you are still talking s h i t

[CaptinPickAxe]

I are NOT the tree hugging type.

spoken like a true champ:D

[MasterKiller]

IE, to anyone who can read, I am saying at least you and I are NOT the tree hugging type
Reading for comprehension.....


Its amazing how I've gone from a "point fighting clown" with no real background to one of the non tree hugging types that fight.

[lkfmdc]

Brothernumber9 wrote;

"I think implications that Sifu Ross has disregard for traditional chinese martial arts in favor of san shou is a contextual misinterperataion. I think his gripe was about schools that claim to teach traditional cma but forsake full contact training."


BINGO
DEAD ON
GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE
GIVE THE MAN SOME FLAN :D

Fu Pow, I know who your sifu is and I would not at all be concerned about anything "shady", I understand he is quite with the REAL tradition.....

[Shaolin-Do]

Ive never hugged a tree. Unless you count climbing as hugging... which I guess you could...
:cool:

[Shaolin-Do]

"BINGO
DEAD ON
GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE
GIVE THE MAN SOME FLAN"

Maybe the blanket statements are what lead to the "contextual misinterpretation"...
:rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

Thanks, MK, I was reading that and had the "HUH? Say what?" reaction too.

[SifuAbel]

Out of the mouth of babes.............

well said SD. LOL!

[MasterKiller]

Maybe the blanket statements are what lead to the "contextual misinterpretation"... That, and his general preference for calling people who disagree with him f@ggots.

[brothernumber9]

what was one of the blanket statements that made you interperate otherwise?

[SifuAbel]

Flan, you guys ever wonder what that yellow glaze is made of? Do you really want to know?

[Water Dragon]

Does this recent turn of events mean there will be no bloodshed? :(

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
what was one of the blanket statements that made you interperate otherwise?

Oh geez, Hey MK , break out the long list

Drun roll please.................

[Shaolin-Do]

"what was one of the blanket statements that made you interperate otherwise?"

Generalizations of kung fu schools being tree huggers.
I know that In SC we go full contact, only wear headgear and and UFC gloves. No foot protectors, no chest guard... ect...

"Flan, you guys ever wonder what that yellow glaze is made of? Do you really want to know?"

Depends on where you get it. Some places caramelized sugar, some places fromunda cheese.
:eek:

"Does this recent turn of events mean there will be no bloodshed?"
Hope not. :(

[SifuAbel]

thats only if they like you. If not its "special ingredient" time.

Hee hee

[Shaolin-Do]

Its ok, I have a reputable flan dealer. I cant say his name tho... they might be watching...
*looks around wildly*

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SifuAbel


Oh geez, Hey MK , break out the long list

Drun roll please.................
Let's start with this one....


Originally posted by lkfmdc
The reality is quite simple, so called "traditional kung fu" people can't fight. They feel impotent, woefully incapable and worthless, thus they have to try and find excuses and cover their rear ends. Thus, when they look at REAL fighting, ie San Shou, they have to find ways to explain why they don't last 30 seconds....

[brothernumber9]

a generalization is not a blanket statement. I don't doubt he may have typed something blanket like but i don't recall it. Probably most of what one might find as a blanket statement includes the words traditional followed by martial artist or master or sifu or whatever. My observation was that the word traditional was the one that was being misinterperated. I perceived he was using the word traditional in place of "masters who claim to teach traditional cma but never punched or got punched" kinda connotation. I could be wrong. I think the word traditional was the one being miscontextualized (I know miscontextualized is probably not a word but you know what I'm trying to say).

[Water Dragon]

The reality is quite simple, so called "traditional kung fu" people can't fight. They feel impotent, woefully incapable and worthless, thus they have to try and find excuses and cover their rear ends. Thus, when they look at REAL fighting, ie San Shou, they have to find ways to explain why they don't last 30 seconds....

The problem is, that's pretty much a true statement.

[MasterKiller]

WD,
Is your teacher a TMA?

[Shaolin-Do]

Most kung fu people I have met are down to fight.
:confused:
Guess you northerners are just pansies.
:eek:



:D

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
WD,
Is your teacher a TMA?

My teacher posts here as MonkeySlap. Make your own decision.

[Shaolin-Do]

Smoking roaches. Some people think its gross.

[Musicalkatachmp]

Guys,

if you agree over the 'net to meet someone to fight them he might bring a 12-guage.

[MasterKiller]

WD,

I know what my opinion is, I'm asking you for yours. I believe a traditional fighter can be effective...do you?

[rubthebuddha]

i think the name comes about because he'll slap you around like a monkey pretty much at will.

yes, WD's teacher is legit.



SD -- you mean northern kung-fuers, right? cause there's not a single tree-hugging hippie-wuss up here in washington state. nope. not a one.

;)

[lkfmdc]

Isn't it wonderful that guys like brothernumber9 and Water Dragon can get it.... it's actually pretty simple isn't it? Yet others (they will remain nameless * cough * cough * Abel * cough * master killer * cough * pardon me....) get so upset and lose their minds

BTW Master Killer, not only have I not called anyone here a "f@gg t" it isn't even one of the words I'd use if I WANTED to.... so don't just make stuff up. I'm sure there are plenty of things I HAVE posted enough to make you angry :D

[Shaolin-Do]

"cause there's not a single tree-hugging hippie-wuss up here in washington state"
lofl.
For those who dont know, washington = tree hugging hippy capital of US.
:eek:

Actually, from what I understand its quite a nice and open minded place to be.

[lkfmdc]

As Water Dragon (Official ***** *******) noted

- "The reality is quite simple, so called "traditional kung fu" people can't fight. They feel impotent, woefully incapable and worthless, thus they have to try and find excuses and cover their rear ends. Thus, when they look at REAL fighting, ie San Shou, they have to find ways to explain why they don't last 30 seconds...." -

The problem is, that's pretty much a true statement.

Of course, you immediately attack him too for saying the truth...

I might also note that some of you apparently can't seem to read the two words "so called"

Wonder what I meant there? HMMMMMMMMMMM?

[Water Dragon]

My opinion, is that:

single posture forms trained as repetetive drills are good, forms practiced in suitcase fashion are a waste of time.

Stance training is good if you know why you're training it.

Heavy bags are great, so are rockpoles, focus mits, belt cracking, Thai pads, Stone Locks, and many other toys.

Everyone should go play with a good boxer to honestky evakuate their own skill level

Thai Boxers have the hardest kick in the business

The Xing Yi guys best get off their @ss and do something if they don't want to be the next foo-foo art.

Results are better than excuses, but no where near as common

It is better to be effective in fighting than pure in style

If it works in fighting, learn it

Shuai Chiao may be one of the most effective training methods out there, but most CMA have the most inefficient methods I have ever seen.

[Shaolin-Do]

blah blah blah.
Blah.
blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah?
BLAH!
Blah.... blah?! blah blah blah.

[lkfmdc]

Be careful Water Dragon, you may become public enemy #2

:(

I will never relinquish the #1 spot of course! ;)

I 2nd, 3rd and 4th even everything he just said, I"ll even buy the man a FLAN

[fa_jing]

at varying times Ross has qualified it by saying "so-called 'traditional'", and at various times he has not qualified his use of the term. Actually I would go so far as to say that he uses the same term in multiple ways, depending on how he wants to spin things. All spins that he uses are leading to self-promotion. That is definitely a noticeable pattern. However, his straight-up writing such as the historical piece, the advice he gives on San Shou etc. are all much higher quality than we usually see around here.

[lkfmdc]

"However, his straight-up writing such as the historical piece, the advice he gives on San Shou etc. are all much higher quality than we usually see around here."

It's nice to know I'm loved
:p

[fa_jing]

oh, just calling it like I see it, no expertise claimed here in writing or any other subject.


BTW, Monkeyslap Too is definitely a TMA. I've met him and took his seminar. Actually he is either a Traditional Mixed Martial Artist or a Mixed Traditional Martial Artist.

He knows how to make traditional styles work in full contact and on the street.

I'm sure Sifu Ross would agree that Sifu Joe is a "real" TMA, if he knows him.

[Shaolin-Do]

"However, his straight-up writing such as the historical piece, the advice he gives on San Shou etc. are all much higher quality than we usually see around here."

I will say that your articles demonstrate rhetorical and reasoning ability that the current argument does not.
:rolleyes:
In all honesty I found them a good read, well thoughtout and well researched.

[lkfmdc]

Shaolin Do writes;

"blah blah blah.
Blah."

I have to disagree.. blah blah blah blah blah

and on

"blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah?"

Perhaps, but BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAh, blah?

"BLAH!
Blah.... blah?! blah blah blah."

NOw you're just being silly....

:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

ho hum, this still going on? :rolleyes:

for those detractors of the forum stating that this is a place for bashing and what not, well, the forum is what you make it.

You come in as a finger pointer or a whiner, then that is how you will be met and dealt with. Don't come here with a thin skin if you can't take what you are dishing.

You come in making claims about yoru own greatness, you can be assured you will be verbally knocked down a peg.

all this tongue fu is just a load imnso.

guys, just get it over with. You are otherwise just blowing bandwidth and it's getting oh so very tired.

And some of you ask why I delete all this nonsense? bwahahaha. This junk speaks for itself.

:mad:

[lkfmdc]

Some people are too serious and can't take a joke, no offense indeed, but "Kung Lek" strikes me as one of those guys

just when this thread is actually amusing and entertaining, he has to be "moderator man" :rolleyes:

[TIger Hand]

C'mon already
, just fight him and get it over with.

[CaptinPickAxe]

yes, enough sh!t has been talked. The forum is filled with it AND IT STINKS! So, quit giving excuses and start preparing to defend what you both have said on this forum.

Besides, I'm itching to watch the video of it:D

[Water Dragon]

Please note that Kung Lek does not even make an appearence until after people start mentioning specifics that may shatter many esoteric illusions.

[rubthebuddha]

and ross is trying to smooth it over like it was all just a joke, and abel's nowhere to be found. as stimpy would say, joyyyyyyyyyy.

anyhoo, this one's for chang style. (http://www.drunk*******.net/regularhumor/superhero.htm).

edit: replace the ******* in the name with the word b astard, minus the space.

[SifuAbel]

I'd say ross would avoid alot of flak if he would simply insert the word "some" or at the very least "most" in his statements.

Because as they stand, he is including ALL in his comments.

But this isn't about some ideal anymore.


I've already said what its about , if confused read this page http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=25840&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

[Shaolin-Do]

The real question is...
If I give you a dollar, and you kick a mime in the knee, does the homersexual community benefit from it?

[Focal]

im too lazy to read this whole thread, and i just dont care, but isnt David Ross that guy on PBS who paints?

[Shaolin-Do]

No no. Bob Ross.
Hmmm...
Any relation lkfmdc?
:eek:

[Focal]

happy little trees.

[lkfmdc]

Not to disappoint, or even "upset", dear old Abel, but really, anything related to this forum is indeed on the level of "joke", even if we fight, really, what will it be? I've fought before, I"ve been hit hard, thrown hard, kicked hard. Some have been better than me, most not. He thinks I'm going to die or something, the worst that will happen, I'll have some bruises maybe a sore neck or shoulder or something

My teacher, a lot of other teachers probably, KILLED people, sorry, that's not very PC. "kung fu" in the US today, really isn't that serious

[lkfmdc]

My "real" last name isn't Ross, sort of a long story, but anyone with the name Ross probably is NOT related to me.....

[norther practitioner]

Shuai Chiao may be one of the most effective training methods out there, but most CMA have the most inefficient methods I have ever seen.

Look at some other tmas also, I wouldn't pin it on cma, although we have a lot (there are a bunch I enjoy though :D )

[Water Dragon]

I know there's some other good ones. Southern Mantis fits the bill. So does Xing Yi, but that may be changing as the chi-hippys have discovered it is an "internal" art. There's more, but not too many.

[rubthebuddha]

good thing is, xing yi is pretty rare in the states, so it'll be difficult for the hippies to take it over -- at least for a while.

southern mantis has the right idea, though -- they're a lot more closed in than most styles, and are a bit more selective in who they teach.

[BAI HE]

Okay I finally get this whole mess, across five threads and god
knows how many "Flan" posts it took, I've got it--

Abel and Ross go at it, Abel pulls up Ross's dress. Ross
hops on a bicycle that goes in four directions.

People on the sidelines wan't a fight, decry this violence or
demand flan.

The Flan is cooking as WaterDragon keeps squirting lighter
fluid into the grill. Shaolin-Do keeps posting anything to keep
the Flan cooking. He doesn't alway's make sense, but he's funny and can drag a thread out, that if made of tooth floss, could reach Jupiter.

Ross clarifies his position, again and again without making blanket statements. He's not trolling or goofing on TCMA any more.

It now makes more sense and what did we learn?

(a)TCMA guys who work hard and train as realistically as possible
don't like to be lumped in with the other 50 percent who are a bunch of fantasist dingbats who don't. San Shou guys don't like the dingbats either, but don't care for "some" traditional training
methods as well.

(b)This board is less about Kung-Fu than it is for anyone martially inclined, thinks they are martially inclined and has ever played Tekken.

(c) The internet was made for talking ****. I't doesn't matter what or how long you've studied, you can hop on and **** on anyone's shoes and it rules!

These are glorious times. There is no need to fight unless it's the last beer and the package store is closed. Now we should return to the program in progress. "Talk **** freely: Why your training sucks"

[lkfmdc]

For the record (and this is important), I don't wear dresses, it takes far to long to shave my legs, and then the stuble itches, if Abel would like to wear a dress, I'm fine with that, but I will stick to casual attire for any official KFO Bar-B-Q

Please pass the flan to the left :D

[David Jamieson]

Please note that Kung Lek does not even make an appearence until after people start mentioning specifics that may shatter many esoteric illusions.

What are you talking about WD? :rolleyes: I could care less about esoteric doo dah in the martial arts. esoteric is personal and private. people can believe what they want. I entered into this as moderator when the language and personal attacks were stooping to a level that was unbecoming of the standard of the forum.

David- No offense taken, just saying, this is going on and on. You guys can surely come to terms and find a resolution to your beef, even if it means taking it offline and having a cup of tea.

After all, you are both grown men and I'm sure you both have skills. What is it you are trying to prove with this circus going on here?

cheers, boys and watch the language please, it's a family forum and we all know there are many youngsters here. Both of the "main antagonists here have schools to boot! Why open yourself and your respective schools to ridicule after all the hard work you've done for the sake of this kind of diatribe?

just sayin, that's all.

[BAI HE]

"No offense taken, just saying, this is going on and on. You guys can surely come to terms and find a resolution to your beef, even if it means taking it offline and having a cup of tea."

Oh God. KL they're soooo gonna give TCMAists bull**** about that comment*. Re-read my last post!!!

* At least you didn't say Chi and Tea in the same sentence, you Chi Bum!

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Kung Lek


What are you talking about WD? :rolleyes: I could care less about esoteric doo dah in the martial arts. esoteric is personal and private. people can believe what they want. I entered into this as moderator when the language and personal attacks were stooping to a level that was unbecoming of the standard of the forum.


Look ******! If lkfmdc and sifuabel can have a nemesis, I should be able to have a nemesis too. And who better than a Canadian with authority?

[Royal Dragon]

Shuai Chiao may be one of the most effective training methods out there, but most CMA have the most inefficient methods I have ever seen.

:rolleyes: You really haven't seen much. SC is just another art, like all the others. It's training methods are nothing new, or super duper, or nessasarily better than anyone elses. Any system can and DO produce good fighters. It has nothing to do wit whether or not you practice long or short forms, or even just stand there in one posture all day. It's in knowing how to apply your system in such a way as that it develops you in the way YOU need. If short forms work for you fine, but practicing Long Fors is just as effective, and if properly done sometimes more so.

One of the things that ****es me off about you, is you think you and your little group are the only ones that really "Get It", when in fact there are plenty out there who "Get It", and many of them train in the exact mannors that you seem to "Think" you are so superior to.

It all about how hard, and consistant you work how much experiance you have, and how well you test yourself, NOT how long your "Rock Pole" is.

[Water Dragon]

You on the other hand, need to STFU. If you ever get yo @ss back in "fighting shape", let me know. Until then, you're full of $hit and everyone on this board who has met you knows it.

[Serpent]

Ooh! That's a harsh punkin'!

*ouch*

[BAI HE]

"It all about how hard, and consistant you work how much experiance you have, and how well you test yourself, NOT how long your "Rock Pole" is."

You are wrong and I will kill you all. Without the proper size and confidence a good rock pole provides ALL! If every man had a big pole there would be no internet and no fighting! DO YOU GET IT!????

[Water Dragon]

Are you talking about a single sided, or a double sided rock pole?

[Royal Dragon]

I Love you too WD.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
BTW Master Killer, not only have I not called anyone here a "f@gg t" it isn't even one of the words I'd use if I WANTED to.... so don't just make stuff up. I'm sure there are plenty of things I HAVE posted enough to make you angry :D


Originally posted by lkfmdc
Fairies like you always run back to "martial virtue", I have some stunning news for you, back in the day in China MOST people doing martial arts were NOT monks and scholars, they were army people, body guards and CRIMINALS...

Sorry, I mistook Fairie for the other word....:rolleyes:

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Are you talking about a single sided, or a double sided rock pole?

I had an ex-girlfriend who loved the double-sided rock pole. She was a bit... odd, though.

Fun, but odd.

[SifuAbel]

This is going on and on?!?!?!


This is nothing. KFO/M has seen worse flame wars than this.

Either way, I'm still waiting for a retraction or some action. :o

[lkfmdc]

I really think Master Killer has a "thing" for me, he must have an altar to me in his house, must log on to see just if I'm posting, I mean, he seems to collect everything I've ever posted here, it's kind of cute :D

I certainly don't remember everything I post here, yet he IMMEDIALTELY comes up with quotes from posts that are often MONTHS OLD....

MK, sorry to shoot you down, but I'm spoken for....:rolleyes:

[Water Dragon]

hmmm, who played with the other side of the pole?

[SifuAbel]

"MK, sorry to shoot you down, but I'm spoken for...."

I'm sure you and your husband are very happily married.

LOL! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[SifuAbel]

"I certainly don't remember everything I post here, yet he IMMEDIALTELY comes up with quotes from posts that are often MONTHS OLD...."

That just means that you don't take responsibility for what you say.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
hmmm, who played with the other side of the pole?

Nobody, oddly enough. :confused: She just had it sitting in her underwear drawer for the 6 months or so we dated.

Like I said, she was fun, but odd.

[lkfmdc]

Abel, I've more than said my part on this. If you want to pursue it, you are welcome to come to NY or ANY event I go to. I"m just not going to LA out of my pocket for obvious reasons, I didn't call you anything "nasty" about you not wanting to come to NY, I simply said you COULD if you wanted to.... That's a major difference from you accusing me of being "afraid" to tell you when an event in San Diego that WAS NOT HAPPENING was happening :rolleyes:

I took and take offense to your questioning my right to call myself "sifu", I've earned the right, you don't have to like it but really you have no say. You can hate me for how I teach, I DO NOT CARE. You can hate me for my OPINIONS, again, I COULD CARE LESS....

I"ve been around the block, I've seen real Chinese martial art and of course, I've seen what is done here in the US, I've been to Asia, I've met a lot of masters. My opinions will not change, most of what is out there is CRAP. "Kung FU" is the laughing stock of the martial arts world.

I feel not only secure, but PROUD to be at the forefront of the ONLY legitimate movement to produce Chinese martial arts based FIGHTERS, ie San Shou/San Da.

Funny how out of touch "traditional" people are with the facts, ie how proud we are that our teacher, our grandmaster, etc etc was one of the FEW to get the real skills. That's legendary crap man, who was the "only" guy to get the "real stuff". People argue and have fist fights over that crap... Cheung and Boztepe for example. The recent Hung Ga rift thing

What it tells you is that "traditional" is famous for teaching a lot of people and only a few of them ever "get it"....

Or, in common English, it is neither efficient nor scientific.

I can tell you, in the Western world alone (US and Canada) my own teacher had over 5000 students, the number that display any fighting skill is meager. Even my sifu said so. But he also said the same thing about people in China.

A lot of so called "masters" couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

Flame me all you want, it won't change these facts

[lkfmdc]

Abel my dear monkey man (dai sing pek gwa that is, not racial or whatever).....

ANYONE who knows me knows I have had EXCELLENT luck with WOMEN, ie I lived with a former rnway modeal and spokeswoman for SamSung Korea in College, was married to a former Miss Shanghai and my current one is SMOKING.....

In that area, my kung fu is quite strong

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
I really think Master Killer has a "thing" for me, he must have an altar to me in his house, must log on to see just if I'm posting, I mean, he seems to collect everything I've ever posted here, it's kind of cute :D

I certainly don't remember everything I post here, yet he IMMEDIALTELY comes up with quotes from posts that are often MONTHS OLD....

MK, sorry to shoot you down, but I'm spoken for....:rolleyes: Sorry, I like my beyotches a little slimmer there, coach.

I remember what you said because you said it to me, in a thread very similar to this one back in July, in which you attacked me because I said wearing boxing gloves keeps you from effectively using Kung Fu hand techniques like Chin Na. You then proceeded to make unfounded claims about my training, my ability, and my liberal use of chi blasts in chicken coups, instead of just arguing the issue at hand.

Sad thing is, when you aren't being a total dlckwad, I agree with most of what you say. It's the personal attacks and the slamming of all TCMA (especially when you were trained traditionally) that gets me upset.

I can tell you, in the Western world alone (US and Canada) my own teacher had over 5000 students, the number that display any fighting skill is meager. Even my sifu said so. But he also said the same thing about people in China.In your opinion, does San Shou training produce better fighters, or does that type of training attract people who are naturally better fighters?

If you took a random group of fat slobs, would San Shou make most of them more effective than a very good TMA program?

[norther practitioner]

And who better than a Canadian with authority?

How come no one else noticed this oxymoron?




A lot of so called "masters" couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

Don't want to be a ****... but you seem to say this a lot.. do you care to name any names? Give an example?

[MasterKiller]

Don't want to be a ****... but you seem to say this a lot.. do you care to name any names? Give an example? Most of the people featured in Inside Kung Fu would qualify as examples.

[lkfmdc]

One of the funniest things I hear is when people claim the only reason we have good fighters is because either 1) they already came to us with skills or 2) they must be naturally tough

If anyone ever came into our gym, they'd find out that most of our students are ordinary people, MOST with NO background, yet in 2 to 4 months they can kick, punch, elbow, and knee with POWER and do basic throws AGAINST A LIVE RESISTING OPPONENT. They can block every technique they learn by 4 months, they are sparring.

A few of my fighters were athletes before training (one a soccer player, another a basketball star) but with only two exceptions, they were not martial artists.

I compare that to YEARS of exerience with people who trained SO CALLED "traditoinal" under SO CALLED "famous masters"

I had a guy who trained praying mantis for SEVEN YEARS under a "famous master" who had never made contact with anything. WE put him in front of a bag and wanted him to throw two straight punches (we call them jab and cross). He could NOT for the LIFE OF HIM, hit the bag with any power. At first I really thought it was a joke, I told him "hey, it's a bag, you won't hurt it" and the dude said to me "but I'm hitting it as hard as I can"

The "Lei Tai" champion who came in and got beat up by one of our 112 lb GIRLS....

The "shaolin" guy who couldn't understand why people just grabbed his leg and took him down, since his "monk master" had taught him all he had to do was "focus his chi" and he wouldn't get taken down.

Listen, since 1988 and we started teaching I have perhaps THOUSANDS of stories like this....

I know a so called "Shuai Jiao master" who doesn't actually throw or do free practice. He has them walk through the throws until they sort of end, but no one ever falls down. Personally, having done some Shuai Jiao with Jeng Hsin Ping, I find this makes me want to vomit up my lunch.

I compare that with my team's capatain who has never worked with a jacket or under Shuai Jiao rules who entered a local Shuai Jiao event in a weight class above him (because his friend was in the class he belonged in) and WON THE DIVISION.

If I named some names and told some other stories, I'd probably have challenges until the end of my life time and significant portions of my next incarnation....

[SifuAbel]

" you are welcome to come to NY or ANY event I go to"


I plan to, that was never an issue. It isn't me thats obssessing about the "when".
I hear there is something coming in next summer, I'll wait.
You could just simply retract your statement regarding my school, teacher, lineage , etc. that you so easily dissmissed like you are some sort of prince. You are NOT Kwan Kune.
Its your choice, If you don't mind spareing a pound of flesh, then I won't mind taking it.

"I took and take offense to your questioning my right to call myself "sifu""

I don't believe I've done so. That is not what my initial question was to you. I made the sifu remark to ST00.

"Funny how out of touch "traditional" people are with the facts, ie how proud we are that our teacher, our grandmaster, etc etc was one of the FEW to get the real skills."

Pot meet kettle. You should plead the 5th on this one.

"In your opinion, does San Shou training produce better fighters, or does that type of training attract people who are naturally better fighters?

If you took a random group of fat slobs, would San Shou make most of them more effective than a very good TMA program?"

These are legitimate questions. If you proceed to disparage someone for asking them, then you are no better than the people you accuse. Just answer the questions and stop being such a tool.

"I feel not only secure, but PROUD to be at the forefront of the ONLY legitimate movement to produce Chinese martial arts based FIGHTERS, ie San Shou/San Da."

Perhaps on a large scale, yes. You are deeply entrenched in this SPORT. But on an individual basis this statemnet is hardly true.

BTW, I don't do dai shing pek kwar.

[lkfmdc]

Abel,

"You could just simply retract your statement regarding my school, teacher, lineage , etc. that you so easily dissmissed like you are some sort of prince."

To be factually accurate, and you are free to re-read what I wrote, I attacked YOU because YOU attacked me.

I did not attack your teacher. He may be "obscure" ie he is not as famous as Chan Tai-San, and you are free to argue that with me, but I think you would lose that argument. But being "obscure" doesn't mean he doesn't have skills. I believe your sifu has skills. You may have skills, but I think you think too highly of yourself, and again, I asked you directly MANY times what FULL CONTACT events you have done to demonstrate those skills?

I also think your lineage is obscure and not heard of. Again, argue with me, but that's what I heard.

My POINT being, I still think I rub you the wrong way because I am successful and YOU are not. Your numerous references to me making money as case in point.

I'm not going to stop saying what I say here. I'm still of the opinion most of you traditional guys talk too much and fight too little. Black belt continuous POINT sparring is not full contact, and when people like you bring it up as cases of how "tough" you are I laugh out loud.

Thus, again to be to the POINT, I attacked you as someone no one knows with little achievement and because of it I think I bother you.

It's between you and me, because you brought me into it. It has nothing to do with your sifu in Florida, or his system, or his school, or other students of his. YOU called me out and so here I am.

I'm not afraid of any confrontation, you may in fact learn one day I am not what a lot of people here think I am. A lot of bull s h i t floats around in CMA circles, in the case of me, it is very untrue and more than a few have learned it the hard way.

Again, maybe you are a great fighter, maybe you are a tough guy, maybe you can beat me, but I assure you I am not what you think I am and if we do meet, and hands are crossed, like a lot of people you will go "oh d a m n, he's not what I thought he was"

- "These are legitimate questions. If you proceed to disparage someone for asking them, then you are no better than the people you accuse. Just answer the questions and stop being such a tool. -

I just did answer the question, but maybe you posted before that response. I do know KFO is a huge pain today, for me anyway, SLOW as old people doing it......

- "BTW, I don't do dai shing pek kwar"

I thought you did, my mistake.

[Vash]

David Ross was once molested by a llama, forced to eat it's "pie,"
then was forcefed about a metric ton of horse crap.


;)

[Merryprankster]

In your opinion, does San Shou training produce better fighters, or does that type of training attract people who are naturally better fighters?

I'd bet it produces better fighters, overall. No forms work, training as THOUGH you are going to ring fight, modern safety equipment to reduce injury and sports science proven training methods would combine to create--on average--a better fighter.

Training methods matter. If you are interested in preserving the ART, you need all that forms work and what not. If you just want to fight with it, it's not needed.




If you took a random group of fat slobs, would San Shou make most of them more effective than a very good TMA program

If you took a random group of fat slobs, none of them would make it through either training :D

[Vash]

lkfmdc . . .

Do you understand that after this point it is going to be rather pointless to attempt to be taken seriously by most on this board?
Yes, others (myself included) have degraded to verbal kickboxing ( :D ) in a futile attempt to make a point. So have you. But, you're also dodging questions, ignoring contradictions in your personal creedo (TMA Suxors. I am a legitamite TCMA Sifu.), and making constant personal attacks . . .

You sound a lot like me. Only more mature. And heftier.

Do the right thing here. Please. Stop the arguing. Not a body cares. Heck, the only reason I do this is the off-chance I might pee in your Cheerios, or something to that effect.

[SifuAbel]

" but I think you think too highly of yourself,"

LOL! OMG, LOL!

Well we shall see, supertrooper. You are not helping yourself. If I were you I'd be carefull, patting yourself on the back that many times a day can lead to a neck injury.


Fame does not insure victory, buddy.

I didn't even know who your teacher was before ventura came along or read it later in inside kung fu.

This MA world of ours is VERY small.

When San Shou as a venue gets bigger than, lets say, TKD then you'll have something to brag about.

And No, I didn't attack you, I asked a question. A question regarding an opinion. If you need to be reminded of this AGAIN I'll be happy to repost, Yet again, the sequence of the thread. Here ya go:
"If you guys were spinning things for Gray Davis he might still be govenor.

Its helpful to actually read the whole thread. Particularly the place were the "war" begins.

Lets see. ..........
I say:

"I'd like to know how your jow ga teacher would react to you saying in effect that his style is useless. And that goes for many other s here, *cough* ross *cough* cough* "

Just a question directed at st00 and in passing to ross since he's ignored this question many times. NOT a personal attack. He has attacked others for not viewing things his way. He has tried to put an artificial rift betwwen san shou and TCMA. I am just responding to those comments.


He says:

"Hey A-hole, I mean ABEL, I wonder if you'd have the f-in nerve to say crap to my FACE, probably NOT...."

If thats not a heads up I don't know what is. It IS a personal attack. So there is the challnge NOT made by me, but by him.

I say:

"Ross, glad you can make it., your face? anytime, remember boy, I don't punk out to your credentials ." ...and so on

I respond in agreement to say this in his face and to follow with action.

Its amazing how I've gone from a "point fighting clown" with no real background to one of the non tree hugging types that fight.

Then I get:
"Unlike you, I am an ADOPTED DISCIPLE of a famous, world respected sifu. Unlike you, I'm accepted by famous teachers around the world, many are friends of mine. Unlike you, I run a school in one of the major mecca's of martial arts, not a little obscure place no one has ever heard of."

In one fell swoop for daring to ask a question, my school, my teachers and I get roasted and defiled. So I'm supposed to just bend over and say "yes sir"? BS on that noise.

BTW, on the shaloin side alone I can trace to People Like Kenny Chin and Chan kwok Wei. So you aren't the only one with a famous lineage. Gus Rubio, my teacher, was just in Inside Kung fu last year. I'd say people have heard of us.


You guys don't like it, I don't care. Its not you and your entire martial family that has been gutted verbally, and for what?

I either get a verbal retraction for this now, Or I get to retract some of your teeth later. Choice is yours.

If this doesn't clarify things for all of you then nothing will. Please no "rubbernecking".

This thing is really about nothing else."


EDIT:

"My POINT being, I still think I rub you the wrong way because I am successful and YOU are not. Your numerous references to me making money as case in point.
'

Ah no........ I make references to you HIDING behing the your student count or your lineage. Its seems to be the only answer you have sometimes.

[SifuAbel]

"I also think your lineage is obscure and not heard of."

You've not heard of Kenny Chin or Chan kwok Wei (his Teacher).?

Have you bben living in a tree in central park or something, you've got to be kidding.

Chin was sponsering exibitions with people like , Gini Lau, Lee koon hung , Shek Ken, Leung Shum and, then very young, Tat mau Wong, when you were still playing with tonka trucks.

Get a grip, boy. You're about step further in the ****ter

[lkfmdc]

Abel, nice "straw man" trying to make this into some noble defense of your lineage and teacher as opposed to my personal attack on YOU and your bruised ego

"Unlike you, I am an ADOPTED DISCIPLE of a famous, world respected sifu. Unlike you, I'm accepted by famous teachers around the world, many are friends of mine. Unlike you, I run a school in one of the major mecca's of martial arts, not a little obscure place no one has ever heard of."

Pretty directly aimed at YOU, and I didn't say anything about your sifu's skills, just that he is not famous and world respected.

You can argue the point, but you will lose. Your teacher is NOT famous or world respected. Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't have skills, but it is what it is

Chan Tai San was declared a living national treasure by China. He was a member of the national demonstration team. He was twice sparring champion (ie SAN SHOU) of Guandong province, three time ALL MILITARY sparring champion. Former coach of Guangdong martial arts team. Former hand to hand coach of Guangdong Special Forces.

Again, your teacher may be (from what I hear IS) very skilled, but obscure compared to Chan Tai San. YOU are more obscure.

I am good friends with many famous sifu, and YOU? Did Chan Poi ever buy you dinner and drinks? But one example.

I run a large school. Do you? How successful is it? I run my school in New York City...

Again, clearly I am attacking YOU...

FURTHER DOWN THE SAME PAGE I SAY THINGS SUCH AS

"Does it upset you that I make a LOT of money? As opposed to YOU?"

"So, as a fighter, you are a great forms player? Thanks for the laugh...."

"You are the toughest forms guy who talks tough on the internet I've ever met.... that's quite an accomplishment"

Stills seems all about YOU

NEXT PAGE
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=25728&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

"Like most of the pathetic forms obsessed wannabe's you talk about being a fighter but you play tag, like I said, you are the big fish in the girls 8 year old's pool

I guess you are pretty desperate for attention, bitter you are a no one, upset at success stories like mine. So I'll pitty you...."

NO MENTION of your sifu, or his school there either....

It of course continued
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=25728&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

"Perhaps if you had some real accomplishments you wouldn't be so pathetically trying to get attention here "look how great I am in blah blah".... yeah, you're an international forms stud. LMFAO .... yeah, you're a forms champion and the international patty cake champion of Florida...."

NO MENTION of your sifu either, or of his school...

I clearly attacked YOU... but that is sort of the point of a flame war isn't it?

[SifuAbel]

OK, have it your way. See you next summer or maybe sooner, you never know. I'm going to come out of "obscurity", hand you your azz, go back to "obscurity" and continue to do what I do. Man, to date I've never seen someone as into themselves as you. Believe you are this superior being as long as you can. Its not going to last that much longer.

You better be good, you better train and you better be in heck of alot better shape. Cause its ON.

"Did Chan Poi ever buy you dinner and drinks? But one example."

About three times with my teacher. Since he wanted to recruit him.

Lee koon hung visted our school twice.

Chan Sao Chun also liked to frequent our school when he came to florida.

The list goes on......

It's funny how you like to focus intently on my LAST tournament. You know why our guys won so much, because they train for contact everyday. So that tourney was no big deal to them. You failed to mention that I was responding to YOUR great forms victories.

Any more talk is cheap , you've exhausted your only out. See ya soon.

Oh and a couple final bits.

you are not your teacher.

And as far as america is concerned, you made your teacher "famous" here. He is a treasure as are many other peoples teachers are. However , the average american or even MA people outside of kung fu don't know who he is. So you can put that dragon to bed because I don't care, you are not your teacher, you talk a lot of hoarsechips about others and I'm going to call your bluff. Period.

[Fu-Pow]

One thing that you guys haven't figured out about arguing with lkfmdc is that if you let him set the "frame" of the argument he will always win the argument.

He sets you up to lose. Until you get that you're going to continue to look like chumps.

Love ya lkfmdc, see you in December.

[Vash]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Unlike you, I am an ADOPTED DISCIPLE of a famous, world respected sifu. Unlike you, I'm accepted by famous teachers around the world, many are friends of mine. Unlike you, I run a school in one of the major mecca's of martial arts, not a little obscure place no one has ever heard of.

This is an obvious measure of your martial skill.


Chan Tai San was declared a living national treasure by China. He was a member of the national demonstration team. He was twice sparring champion (ie SAN SHOU) of Guandong province, three time ALL MILITARY sparring champion. Former coach of Guangdong martial arts team. Former hand to hand coach of Guangdong Special Forces.

Yep. He taught you a traditional Chinese martial art in addition to this, didn't he? Guess that TCMA stuff really is crap . . .


Again, your teacher may be (from what I hear IS) very skilled, but obscure compared to Chan Tai San. YOU are more obscure.

I am good friends with many famous sifu, and YOU? Did Chan Poi ever buy you dinner and drinks? But one example.

I run a large school. Do you? How successful is it? I run my school in New York City...

Again, your rep. Wow. You must be strongest one there is.

Really, Coach/Sifu/WTF ever Ross. This don't prove a dang thing. Success, notoriety aren't good indicators of skill.

So, here's MY challenge to Ross:

Answer these following questions in a straightforward manner, with out citation of

1)Your teacher's notoriety

2)Your "fame"

3)Your student count

4)Your money (which you need to send to me since I have less money)

The Questions!

#1: Have you inhereted a CMA other than San Shou, San Da?

#2: Do you teach a CMA, other than San Shou, San Da, if yes to above?

#3: Have you said in the past that CMA are worthless? (or some other derogatory term in regards to CMA, TMA, non professional fighters?)

If you would simply answer these questions in the prescribed fashion, I'm certain you'd be taken a tad more seriously.

[lkfmdc]

Oh my lord, talk about SPIN.... I only mentioned my forms victories AFTER you said I had never competed....

YOU should be the one spinning for democrats, or communists as you have issues with people making money....

You talk really tough, you are so sure of yourself, I guess if you ever do show up I'll have a lot of fun looking at your confused face when you realize that you've deluded yourself into thinking you know what the deal is....

So, finally, for the last time, what tournament with FULL CONTACT did you fight in??? I will type slowly, FULL CONTACT? Since you constantly made yourself out to be the full contact master.....

I am sorry for you dude, because you've convinced yourself you know what the deal is....

[SifuAbel]

"Answer these following questions in a straightforward manner, with out citation of

1)Your teacher's notoriety

2)Your "fame"

3)Your student count

4)Your money (which you need to send to me since I have less money)"



He can't, without them all he has is a third place bronze medal fighting someone that should be "beneath" him. Beaten by a "rank" inferior, for shame.

[SifuAbel]

You mean san shou or san da.

I was before their time. Its not been that popular. I was hanging it up by 95. San shou was a disorganized mess and it was still going by the name of "continuous" sparring down in my neck of the woods. You make it sound like its a 100 years old.

It didn't compare to what was going on under the table at the time.

But enough talk, you're so sure I'm one of the deluded, fine, beleive what you want. You'll get a chance to prove it soon.

The deal? LOL! My, don't we sound cool. I'm going **** you up and there ain't a **** thing you are going to do about it. LOL, the deal, thats rich! LOL!

[Vash]

It's possible. But, to not give him the opportunity would only give him more fuel to the fire he's lighting under everyone else's ass.

[MasterKiller]

lkfmdc,

Do you compete full contact?

[lkfmdc]

Here's Abel's spin....

"Accomlpishments of my own? I've never seen you at ANY of the major world level tournaments that happen yearly in florida. If you ever did leave new jersesy , you would have had to compete , and lose, to me. I've had plenty of awards. The last time I competed blah blah"

Aside from the obvious flaw that I don't live nor run a school in NJ, I pointed out that when I competed in forms I placed (top 3) several years in a row at the NACMAF events.

THUS, for the POINT IMPAIRNED, I've competed in world level tournaments and I've won. And I NEVER SAW ABEL THERE by the way.....

Abel again thinks he knows what he is talking about. I haven't actively competed since the 1980's. In the first NACMAF I went to, it was point sparring since that was all there was, I took second. I actually got DQ'ed for knocking someone down, forgive me, I'm not a point fighter.

I was the AAU FULL CONTACT taekwondo champion of New York State 2 years in a row. I hated TKD because I couldn't punch or low kick, but it was the only FULL CONTACT thing around at the time.

I fought "lei tai" style a few times, I am not, unlike Able, some "undefeated tought guy", I won some and lost some.

I boxed in PAL league.

So I've done NACMAF continuous point, "lei tai", full contact TKD (Olympic), boxed, even did some Muay Thai. And Abel?

Vash is an annoyance, but

#1: I was adopted and named a sifu in Tibetan Lama Pai. I find the traditional way it was taught no longer suits me or my students, so I identify myself as a San Shou/San Da person...

#2: I teach San Shou/San Da, I also teach a "self defense" class which is basicly street oriented and not "sport" with things like knife defenses. I do NOT teach forms, traditional weapons, chi kung (which actually I have nothing against, just don't right now). I don't teach in Chinese, I don't wear a uniform and most of my students just call me David.

#3: If you haven't been at all paying attention, I have said that most of what passes as TCMA is crap, and mostly it is inefficient for teaching. If by "crap" you mean that you can do it for seven years and still not be able to punch effectively, yes, I've seen a lot of crap in the name of TCMA

I strongly suspect those with an agenda won't bother dealing with any of the above, they'll just pretend it never happened

Abel, you are still desperate for attention, aren't you? Can't even deal with what is posted can you?

[lkfmdc]

Abel, you are a laugh riot, a real entertainer, you know exactly ZERO about me, yet you have convinced yourself you are gonna just show up and kick my azz....

What's gonna happen when you show up and discover I'm not out of shape like you think I am?

What's gonna happen when you discover that I've been hit HARD a lot before and I'm not going to curl up and die just because you throw something?

What's gonna happen when you discover I can actually hit you hard? You apprently think I'm a joke, well, if you believe internet rumor you are subject to finding out it may not be true, GASP!

I really find it all amusing, because I've been here before. Don't you read Sun Tzu? Understimating the enemy is a serious no no

:D

[lkfmdc]

Oh, giving credit where credit is due. Indeed, Abel is correct, neither he nor I were probably able to fight under current San Shou/San da rules.

San Shou was restrictred to inside the Chinese military until the late 1980's and didn't start in it's current format until 1991 and didn't show up in the US until 1994. Even then it was only being done in Baltimore.

Guys like Able and I, as he seems to be from around the same time period (a bit later maybe) were stuck with non CHinese event if we wanted to do full contact (kickboxing, Muay Thai, Olympic TKD, boxing, etc)....

I won't rag him for that at all.....

[SifuAbel]

"I was the AAU FULL CONTACT taekwondo champion of New York State 2 years in a row."

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Really?, a TKD champ, I'm impressed.

I'm begining to wonder what you concider "Full Contact" to be.


"Can deal with what I've posted."

Oh yeah I'm shaking in my shoes. NOT

So you've managed to strip the flavor from your art completely, congratulations.

So inspite of Vash's request your answers are as follows.

1. My fame / lineage

2. My students

3. My hypocrisy

I think I've got it down to its finer points.

Don't worry, fighting me will be easy , I'm just a point fighter, after all. I don't know why you are even bothering to respond to little old me. I do appreciate the audience, your majesty.

This is going to be fun, its apparent you've never ever met someone like me.

I will not respond to any more of this.
Fuse is lit. Bomb is about to go off. See you soon. BOOM.

[Vash]

Thanks for answering the questions (in a civil manner, even ;) )

Here's my responses.


Originally posted by lkfmdc
Vash is an annoyance, but

#1: I was adopted and named a sifu in Tibetan Lama Pai. I find the traditional way it was taught no longer suits me or my students, so I identify myself as a San Shou/San Da person...

That makes sense. It doesn't work for you, don't teach it if you don't believe in it. Cool.



#2: I teach San Shou/San Da, I also teach a "self defense" class which is basicly street oriented and not "sport" with things like knife defenses. I do NOT teach forms, traditional weapons, chi kung (which actually I have nothing against, just don't right now). I don't teach in Chinese, I don't wear a uniform and most of my students just call me David.

As I've said in another thread, I am against keeping most of the cultural aspects of a an art foreign to the area in which it is being taught. Nothing wrong with this, I'd imagine.

I like kata/forms. Good bit of depth there, and studying the applications thereof against resisting opponents has helped my fighting ability immensley. Knife defense is good to work on, I think. Just not for everyone. 'Course, nothing is.


#3: If you haven't been at all paying attention, I have said that most of what passes as TCMA is crap, and mostly it is inefficient for teaching. If by "crap" you mean that you can do it for seven years and still not be able to punch effectively, yes, I've seen a lot of crap in the name of TCMA

Seeing a lot of crap doesn't exactly make the entirety of an art crap. Also, as you should know, most teachers don't instruct in the exact same fashion as the art "directs."

Oh, btw . . . most of your students call you David? I thought you'd earned the right to call yourself sifu? :p

Peace.

[lkfmdc]

Abel show, frankly, that he is an idiot.

You probalby have point fighting in your brain but dude you should really look at full contact Olympic TKD and see that it is anything but POINT FIGHTING.....

I also boxed, did Lei Tai and Muay Thai.... gonna call those "point"? Yeah, right, whatever, in your desperate attempt to act tough

Actually the more you post, the more it shows you are not tough at all.

I listed what I've done. And you? We still haven't seen any full contact events you've done?

Even Vash can accept I answered his question.... maybe I was right and you can't read

Abel, more and more I see this is going to be quite amusing. Clearly, you are the clueless fool I took you to be. Overblown in your own ego. Note I never said I was the world's greatest fighter, only you have claimed you are so great. So it's gonna be real fun when you dillusion comes crashing down

[lkfmdc]

so Abel, are you going to be a man and list your fighting credentials??

Perhaps they do not exist?

Boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, Lei Tai, all were around when you were active, did you do any? Or were you limitd to slap fighting???

Come on, you're so good at pounding your chest, let us know, put more fear into my heart, yeah, right, YAWN :rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

i said I'm done responding to you but I'll add one more thing.

Tick Tock

Tick Tock

Tick Tock

Tick Tock


Clock is ticking.........................

[lkfmdc]

It's my turn

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

yeah, whatever, I think by now everyone knows you are talking a good game and not going to back it up EVER.

You accuse me of ducking questions, I sure as H E LL answered a whole pile of them...

You ducked every single one of them. Because I think we've demonstrated that you have never fought full contact.

So when are you coming? Or are you going to be a b i t ch and run up behind me at some event? You have pictures of me, I don't know what you look like. Gonna post a picture?

Or are you a COWARD?

Come on big boy, I'm calling you on this. Post your pic so I know what you look like and you can't sneak up like a b i t ch on me...

And let's hear your glorious combat record?

[MonkeySlap Too]

SifuAbel said:

B]The deal? LOL! My, don't we sound cool. I'm going **** you up and there ain't a **** thing you are going to do about it. LOL, the deal, thats rich! LOL![/B]

Do you thats a wise thing to post? Even if you beleive it? I am all for someone wanting to try thier skill - but smack talking just makes you look A.) Stupid when you lose or B.) Liable in court if you win and actually do 'f@ck him up'.

Get a paper bag and breath a little.

BTW - I want tickets to the match...

[lkfmdc]

As I said, Able's gone off the deep end, he's convinced himself of certain "facts" which he's gonna have to learn the hard way are just gossip and BS....

I always love the confused look on their faces after the first right hook lands on the jaw.... yeah, get ready Abel, I always fight south paw

But chances are better he'll be a punk and try and jump me from behind and then act tough about it....

[SifuAbel]

"You have pictures of me, I don't know what you look like. Gonna post a picture?'

Ok one more post.

Are you kidding?!?!? Pictures of me?!?!

You've seen pictures me, you even commented on them.

Here's one.

Me 6 months ago (http://home.earthlink.net/~drhchan/Heigung2.jpg)

Don't make jokes you all, I was inhaling and had a bad hair day, ok.

here's one of me a in 94.

Mabo, posing with students (http://home.earthlink.net/~drhchan/MABO1.JPG)

Just having some fun, not trying prove anything, so save it.

And here's on from my school in san mateo.

San mateo school (http://home.earthlink.net/~drhchan/thefinger.jpg)


"I always love the confused look on their faces after the first right hook lands on the jaw.... yeah, get ready Abel, I always fight south paw'

:rolleyes: Like you invented it or something, Didn't you make the connection yet. Longfist, chinese boxing, get it. You aren't exlusive to mean overhand right.

Tick tock

[Fu-Pow]

**** Abel you got a mean looking Kiu Sau.

[SifuAbel]

Ah thanks fu, its refreshing to change the subject.

Its actually not a kui sao in the stickest sense. Its more like what some call a dragon claw. Kiu sao is flat with the finger erect and the other fingers tucked tight. The claw you see there is open and curled.

Looking at it again, it might be something in the middle, LOL! who knows, it was an impromptu picture.

[fa_jing]

Youse guys have it aaalll wrong. CMA is all about learning to squat when you take a p!ss. That's why we spend so much time every day in horse stance.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Ah thanks fu, its refreshing to change the subject.

Its actually not a kui sao in the stickest sense. Its more like what some call a dragon claw. Kiu sao is flat with the finger erect and the other fingers tucked tight. The claw you see there is open and curled.

Looking at it again, it might be something in the middle, LOL! who knows, it was an impromptu picture.

What's it used for?

[Shaolin-Do]

disembowling.
:eek:

[Mutant]

sifu able, you look kind of like al gore on crack. not that thats a bad thing, hehe. :D

so are you gonna step up and fight ross at the san da tourny next month? i'm sure you could find a discount ticket to nyc, its not like youre flying to biloxi or some obscure neck of the woods. www.expedia.com it would be the best and quickest way to settle this pi ssing contest. and it would provide entertainment for the rest of us. you OWE us that now... after reading all this silly b.s., i think we deserve to see this challenge come to fruition, not next-year-maybe, but next month for real. do it for jimmy, man, do it for jimmy. and for us.

so, i think i speak for almost everyone here, no matter who's side theyre on or even if theyre a neutral neutral bystander (i know thats lame, but work with me here, people) when i say, i hope to see you step into the ring next month for the fight *ahem* -slaughter- *cough* at the san da tournament.

if you do, there will be a celebration with flan for all! :p

[brothernumber9]

diss 'em bowling, sounds like a fun new sport.

larry sets up for the tenth frame, he needs one pin to win.....
when all of a sudden jim googlymoogly jumps up and yelss "Larry!! yo moms got no toes and complains her flip flops don't fit!!!!!!"....and.....Gutterball!! thats all the time we have for diss 'em bowling today. see you next time when larry gets dissed again.

[Shaolin-Do]

d@mn....
My head hurts.
:(

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
diss 'em bowling, sounds like a fun new sport.

larry sets up for the tenth frame, he needs one pin to win.....
when all of a sudden jim googlymoogly jumps up and yelss "Larry!! yo moms got no toes and complains her flip flops don't fit!!!!!!"....and.....Gutterball!! thats all the time we have for diss 'em bowling today. see you next time when larry gets dissed again.

I know you were hoping for a lol, but all you get for that is a *groan*. Sorry

[SifuAbel]

MW,

Make sure to check out my san mateo picture.

[Musicalkatachmp]

so, i think i speak for almost everyone here, no matter who's side theyre on or even if theyre a neutral neutral bystander (i know thats lame, but work with me here, people) when i say, i hope to see you step into the ring next month for the fight *ahem* -slaughter- *cough* at the san da tournament

OK I admit part of me would really like to see a clip of this fight on the 'net...but NO I gotta put that thought outta my mind otherwise I'm no better than Richard Harris and all those other dudes who watched guys tear eachother apart at the Coliseum (see Gladiator)...OK so hopefully it won't be that bad, but there seems to be enough animosity here that if these two ever do meet it could get ugly, very ugly. And I said it before I would just like to repeat since both of them had plenty of prior notice about this potential altercation I would be afraid someone would bring a weapon or gang or something...
If it was a fight in competition with rules I would support and watch that but I don't want two cats to bash eachother's heads in because of a fight they had on the internet...I know I'm a huge ***** thats why I stick to kata

[lkfmdc]

- "You've seen pictures me, you even commented on them" -

Uh, NO, maybe you are thinking of someone else, I would have remembered if I had seen them, sure would have commented on them, but I didn't..... but thanks for them.....

I must say, you do look like Al Gore.... maybe there's a side line profession in there for you.....

[Tit Sa]

This is true comedy.....hahahahaha..........

Sifu Abel-

I'll kick your a$$, I want to fight you...

Ross-

Iam champion, look at my sifu, my name, my trophies.....

Abel-

I'll kick your a$$, name the place....

Ross-

But, look at my students, I have so many....

Abel-

I'll kick ur A$$....

Ross-

Iam champion...look at my sifu....and my students....

Abel-

I'll kick ur A$$....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ross-

U don't have any students......

LOL........:) Oh...my.......this is better than an HBO

[CrippledAvenger]

Except for the part where he said he'd fight 'em.

:rolleyes:

Anyhow, like MST said, if this happens I want tickets. If it doesn't, well, c'est la vie.

Gotta go run wind sprints now.

[lkfmdc]

Well, either Abel came up with a new screen name or "Tit Sa" is yet another KFO'er who can't read.....

actually, I think I found a picture of Tit Sa

http://emage.allrecipes.com/allrecipes/images/recipe_images/small/27151.jpg

(you know it HAD to be done) :D

[Tit Sa]

Haha....

You don't wanna start with me Ross...

I know all about you and your school and your sifu....so let it lie where it is.

All I want to know is when is this fight gonna happen.

[lkfmdc]

Oh my, another internet wannabe who thinks he knows what the deal is from rumor and general gossip and BS

Yeah, sure, Tit Sa, you know everything about everything.... Hey, tough guy, fill out your profile, maybe provide us with a picture and tell us who you are, cause I'm sure you'll soon be spewing crap and at least it you identify yourself someone MIGHT believe you :)

[lkfmdc]

I think I've come up with a great way to make even MORE MONEY (watch guys like Abel freak out!)

I'm gonna set up a paypal account, and we'll have a challenge of the month club, and if you donate to it, we'll send you the video tapes......

Only problem is most will be like this one, on the internet only. I've lost track of all the guys who said on the internet they were going to "come down" and "kick my azz" but the fact remains, only TWO PEOPLE were real men and came on down.... My FULL RESPECT TO THEM.... They know who they are :)

That also means that despite all the crap said here, only two people on KFO have ever seen me up close and personal and have any idea what they are talking about....

[SifuAbel]

Me? Freak out? Only you are sweatin'

Thats a great idea.

Either way. BOOM.

[norther practitioner]

I'm gonna set up a paypal account

Great idea, glad I suggested it a few pages/days ago....:rolleyes:

:)

[lkfmdc]

The only flaw so far in my glorious plan to victory is that I have recently learned that my secret monkey technique which invloves jumping up on his horse stance and grabbing his arm may not work on the great warrior known as Sifu Abel....

(turn off sarcasm mode)

you are now free to go about your business as usual

[SifuAbel]

LOL! Well then you'll just have to depend on your patented bend over and say ahhhh technique. One look at that gaping azzhole and I'll just die of horror.

You call the third eye stare, I believe.

LOL! ......The Deal... LOL!!!! ROFL!!! LMAO!!!!

[jun_erh]

give the guy a break. He's trying to run a kung fu school in the same town as two shaolin temples. You'd try and take over san shou too.

[norther practitioner]

Isn't it 3

[Starchaser107]

hey, i signed all those petitions ikfmdc posted, and i'd like to say for the record, i think what he's trying to accomplish for san shou is great. Ikfmdc If you have beef with traditional chinese martial arts methods, forms etc. it's a shame but I suppose you have your own reasons.

and i respect abel as well for his passion to stand up for what he believes in. Abel if you think that tcma will be vindicated by challenging ikfmdc to a duel, then follow your dreams. I believe he has indirectly accepted your challenge, but has stated he has no desire to pay money to meet you. and I agree with him, You are the one that is challenging him so You need to be the one to find yourself over to ny. it would be different totally if he was the one instigating this battle, but he isn't, you are , so just go for it, if you believe you can, wouldn't it be worth it?

both of you should come together either to fight , or settle your differences. because this verbage does nothing to enhance the character of you both.

much respect to both of you.

[lkfmdc]

On any given day in NYC there are 5 to 9 so called "shaolin temples" in the city... most teaching contemporary wushu and chen taiji under the name "shaolin"....

NONE fight, one guy is a so called "san shou champion" but he doesn't let anyone in his school spar until they are "3rd level monks" and that somehow involves a large contribution to the temple that no one seems to have been able to cut the check for yet...

IE, shaolin temples have about as much effect on my business as Canadian winters to on Afghans hiding on the Pakistan border

[SifuAbel]

Shi Yang Ming would tear your little body into teeny tiny pieces.

[Starchaser107]

there is a song ...

: " Press trigger we nuh press people buttons"

it means, actions speak louder than words and talk is cheap.

unless you're just doing this out of boredom to entertain us :o :D

[SifuAbel]

Is that rapp or something?

Either way, if we are talking about the heads of the school, SYM vs. Ross, there is no contest, SYM wins by breaking anything he wants on ross' body. I wouldn't want to mess with him. SYM is in ultra-phenominal shape.

[NeedsPractice]

1. I am all for tcmas' but practitioners definitely need to step it up and prove they are viable in a full contact venue ( if I had the skills to do it I would.) I know san shou is chinese but I mean a xing yi guy or praying mantis or whatever.
2. Of course spending time learning forms, and chi kung may slow down your learning curve in some areas compared to someone who is practicing striking, kicking and throws all the time. Depending on the school maybe you will never catch up. Unfortunately fighters like all athletes, get old, and slow. Hopefully "traditional" styles will give you some skills that dont just rely on youth and athleticism.
3. I am all for these two testing thier skills, if teachers still displayed, and tested thier skills publicly, maybe many of the mc- dojos people complain about would close down.
4. I don't know either of these men, but I am sure it would be more interesting to me than alot of boxing matches on pay-per view.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by NeedsPractice
1. I am all for tcmas' but practitioners definitely need to step it up and prove they are viable in a full contact venue ( if I had the skills to do it I would.) I know san shou is chinese but I mean a xing yi guy or praying mantis or whatever.

1.) Why does TCMA have to proove themselves in a full contract venue, what is to be gained by it?
Besides satisfyng YOUR ego and making yourself feel bigger that you study an art that ahs prooved itself in venues.

2.) Why don't YOU aquire the skills to do so and than enter the full contact arena.

Sorry, this is something that ****es me off, peole keep on saying that TCMA has to proove themsleves but than follows the mention of the lack of skill of the poster or other excuses why he can't do so himself.

Admit it is YOU that want to see TCMA in a full-contact venue as long as it is somebody else to step up to the bar.

For me TCMA is a personal venture, even if somebody else wins tourneys it does not affect my skill level or my competence to defend myself.

When it comes down to the crunch it is MY skill vs the opponents, forget if MA x won tourney Y he/they won't be fighting YOUR fight for you.
Or if Sifu ZYX has tons of trophies.

Even if It take up BJJ it is my skill that matters not how many fights helio won or what helio can do.
Nor how many students of Sifu A won tourneys

Get over the TCMA vs MMA, my style vs your style crap already and start improving your skill and your gameplan.

I see plenty of ego and misdirecting attention by worrying how would my style fair in venue X or Y.

[Vash]

NeedsPractice = Owned by T'ai Ji Monkey :D

[Serpent]

You know something that is confusing me in all of this?

People seem to make a distinction between CMA and San Da. San Da is not a style - it's the full contact tournament environment for all CMA, at least in my experience. As far as I know it all CMA train in several fields: forms, chi kung, iron palm/body, etc. and san da. San da being the actual fighting, i.e. putting their style/skills to the test in a tournament environment. Back in the day the san da would be in school or between schools and usually full contact without any gloves or stuff. All styles.

Obviously, today there are certain safety measures, so contact may or may not be limited, protective equipment is used and so on, but san da is still san da.

Therefore, if lkmdc (or whatever his name is) is training fighters for san da, that's just a full contact tournament. Not style specific. So what style is he teaching? San da and san shou are different ways of saying the same thing, right?

Am I missing something here? Is this an Americanisation thing?

What's going on?!

[Shaolin-Do]

There is an SC tourney in austin commin up...
There gi wrestling... more or less beginners...
Theres San Shou division... Means puffy gloves and foot pads...
And then theres full contact. UFC gloves full contact fighting.
:)

[Shaolin-Do]

"Any one interested in fighting a san shou format fight can go here http://www.sanshou.co.uk/ to enroll in a ranking day no november 30."

[Tit Sa]

I have seen Shi Goulin in a demo from Texas. He is the "REAL DEAL" He has the real Iron Shirt Kung.

I mean people were lined up from the audience, MA'tist too, giving full power blows on him. I mean they were hitting him so hard you could hear the thumping. TCMA, totally useless :p

And NO, Iam not one of his students.

[Merryprankster]

Why does TCMA have to proove themselves in a full contact venue, what is to be gained by it?

It's simple: Openess. I realize that it all comes down to the skill of the individual fighter, but if a place or style GENERALLY produces excellently skilled fighters then something must be going on there that contributes to that success. If they GENERALLY do not, then something must be going on that contributes to that failure. Now, we can argue all day about the reasons WHY--it might be bad (or good) instruction, incomplete (or well-focused and transmitted) knowledge, whatever, but it still remains that at a general level, something good or bad is happening first at the individual level, then at the gym level, ultimately at the style level. To put it another way, NOBODY questions the effectiveness of boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Muay Thai, San Shou fighters, etc. You watch it, it works. Even the biggest elitist snots on this forum will concede that these arts produce effective practicioners, even if they deride them as unsophisticated and low level under their breath. Investing in openess has done great things for the reputation, transmission and development of these arts. There is much more to be gained by putting it on the line than there is in secrecy. When you (universal you) make claims about something, people have a right to demand proof. They don't want to BELIEVE something is effective--they want to know. One requires faith, the other, evidence. You (unversal) have the right to turn those people down, of course, but don't be surprised when they walk away--and who knows--you may have just lost the most dedicated student that style will ever know. I mean, would you invest your money in a stock because a broker just said it was a good idea or would you want some historical, empirical, demonstrable data about the stock's performance? Personally, I know I'm a hell of a lot more jealous of my time than my money and getting good takes SO MUCH time.

I am not, however, claiming that everybody who does a style is going to become an asskicker nor that everybody must fight--any more than every investor in the market becomes rich.

[Merryprankster]

Of course spending time learning forms, and chi kung may slow down your learning curve in some areas compared to someone who is practicing striking, kicking and throws all the time. Depending on the school maybe you will never catch up. Unfortunately fighters like all athletes, get old, and slow. Hopefully "traditional" styles will give you some skills that dont just rely on youth and athleticism.

TMA myth number #1. These other styles all rely on youth, strength and attributes and they will deteriorate over time, but what WE do is special and unique and you'll just get better and better. These guys are in great shape because they have to be because their techniques rely on attributes not skill. There is a total lack of critical thinking in that statement.

Mythbuster #1 - The reason that Combat Athletes are in such phenomenal shape is because they have to be. Up to a certain point, you can get by on talent and technique alone. However, after that point, you have to improve your instrument of expression (ie, your body) in order to succeed in competition because EVERYBODY you face is both talented and skilled. As a blue belt, I could go to a tournament, have 6 matches, and I would finish them all. And I'd do it in less than 20 minutes, total mat time. At purple belt, I don't have that luxury. Everybody at this level is both skilled and talented and I have to be at the top of my game every time to win. If I get tired, then my talent and technique are useless because I cannot execute. "Effortlessness" is nice, but doesn't actually exist unless the disparity in skill is fairly substantial.

Mythbuster #2 - It's a corollary to Mythbuster #1. Age robs you of your attributes. It's an ugly fact, but a fact nonetheless. Regular exercise and what not can slow that loss, but it still happens. However, you can still improve your SKILLS--and in turn this will make you a better practicioner. I have no doubt that Caique, an older black belt near my size, could make me into a living pretzel. Is he as strong, quick, agile and in as good shape as me? I bet not. But he's a hell of a lot better. His sensitivity, timing, flow and mat sense are probably light years ahead of mine as they stand now. My old boxing trainer, Dave, was 60 and I have no doubts he would be able to beat my ass any way he chose (old wrestler on top of that Golden Gloves title). What people see is that you are no longer capable of competing with the young guns when you're 50 and think that it's because these arts require a high level of attribute training. In another lack of critical thinking, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that being good at "x" requires tremendous attribute training. It only follows that being a top level competitor requires tremendous attribute training.

Holyfield might have gotten *****ed by James Toney, but he'd put 99% of the people on the planet in the hurt locker at his advanced ring age. George Forman still would at 50+. Even with all his age, my money is on Gene in Gene Lebell vs. me. Cause they're better. It's just that people confuse "no longer in their peak in terms of competing" with "What they do relies on attributes." No, they just can't compete anymore with people who have 95% of their skill level and 150% of their attributes. Same thing goes with great TMA masters, no matter what you'd like to believe--those top level guys might all beat the **** out of the rank and file like you and me, but are gonna have a **** hard time with the best of the younger guys.

[Merryprankster]

I mean people were lined up from the audience, MA'tist too, giving full power blows on him. I mean they were hitting him so hard you could hear the thumping. TCMA, totally useless

Hi. Go to any mid-level Thai Boxing fights and you'll see the same thing. Hardly unique or especially interesting.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

MP.

I am not disagreeing.

If someone wants to test their style than THEY should do it and not expect OTHER people to do it for them.

Even if TCMA starts to train and compete in lets say UFC it will still take quiet some time till the aquired knowledge is filtering to the average student who might use it or not.

If you don't train for competitions don't expect the results/benefit of such a training just to be imparted on you.

Like My Sifu often ask students:
"What is the purpose of your MA study?
To hear me say "Well done" or for your own benefit."

So far I have not seen any serious TMA student make any claims(besides on KFO and similar forums), those are normally reserved the McKwoons and similar type of schools.

To repeat myself if you want the benefit of a type of training than you need to do it yourself, this is up to each student to set his own goals and train for them.
Your Sifu will help you and guide you, but he cannot give you knowledge that you are not willing to aquire or work for yourself.

Said that it is my belief that if you spar more than 30% of your time you are sparring too much. And that the sparring should be supervised and criticised by your Sifu.

Just some thoughts.

[Merryprankster]

Said that it is my belief that if you spar more than 30% of your time you are sparring too much. And that the sparring should be supervised and criticised by your Sifu.

I disagree to some extent, but that's just disagreement, nothing more.

TJM, I hear what you're saying and I gotcha! Dig it.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by Merryprankster

I disagree to some extent, but that's just disagreement, nothing more.

TJM, I hear what you're saying and I gotcha! Dig it.

Yup. I don't think we will ever see fully eye to eye, but than I think it is because of the way our training is structure in my style.

[lkfmdc]

I love when Abel talks crap and puts his foot in his mouth....

Shi Yan Ming is exactly the so called "san shou champion" who doesn't teach sparring I was talking about and about two years ago when he opened his dumb mouth too much I personally sent him a challenge IN CHINESE. Considering we are in the same city, less that 15 minutes distance by subway, and I offered to fight him IN HIS SCHOOL WITH NO RULES or with rules (HIS CHOICE) you'd think the big bad shaolin monk would have put his money where his mouth was...

He came up with about six million excuses why he couldn't fight me. Yeah, me, you know, the joke....

So I offered to fight one of his students. He said none of them even spar and can't fight....

So much for the shaolin BS....

I really love how he teaches the Taiji he learned from Guang Yi Ren and calls it "Shaolin Taiji"

[SifuAbel]

I think he was just taking pity on the crazy Guai Lo.

Dream.................on...............

[Shaolin-Do]

I think Ross vs. Abel should be a saturday morning kids show with sock puppets.

[MasterKiller]

I thought Yan Ming did not teach any kind of fighting in his classes. When did he start offering San Shou?

[Shaolin-Do]

Doesnt Dr. Yang teach in new york?

[lkfmdc]

Abel, you keep deluding yourself buddy. You've dug a pretty deep hole for yourself based upon trying to convince yourself that I have no skill.

Any Shi Yan Ming students here? Remind your FRAUD of a pork eating shaolin monk that any time, any place, including in his own school, I'll be happy to fight him. We can do a San Da exhibition at the November championships, we could do a "charity match" ala Wu Gung Yee vs Chan Hak Fu. We could do it for "kid's kicking cancer" which is to help kids with cancer. That's a good cause.

Shi Yan Ming is 15 minutes away from me. So it's quite easy to set up. He sure had a lot of crap to say to his students in class, too bad a lot of them left him and came to NYKK so we heard it.

People here have very short memories apparently.... maybe we need to remind them once in a while

[SifuAbel]

Dr. Ming is another guy.

I talking about this guy: SYM (http://www.shaolinwolf.com/Imagesqrst/sifuarenaportraitthumb.jpg)

[Shaolin-Do]

Ahhh.... Discovery channel did a study on the top 10 martial arts styles in the world.... #1 was kung fu....
That guys school was the one on TV for it.
:eek:

"People here have very short memories apparently.... maybe we need to remind them once in a while"

I just dont remember cr@p that isnt important. And some other things.
;)

[lkfmdc]

yeah, the same show had as #2 NINJITSU, so take that into consideration.....

BTW, While Chan Tai San was NOT a monk, he was an orphan raised in a monastery (not a Shaolin monastery, just a regular old Buddhist one). He found it amusing that a lot of the so called "monks" can't even chant. He could chant more and better than they could!

Like me, my teacher was not at all fond of BS....

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
I think Ross vs. Abel should be a saturday morning kids show with sock puppets.

SD, you're great. Always count on you for a good laugh at all this ego.

[Shaolin-Do]

"#2 NINJITSU"
Actually #2 was Karate. :rolleyes:
#3 was Muay Thai. :rolleyes:

That doesnt matter tho. #1 was kung fu.
:D

"SD, you're great. Always count on you for a good laugh at all this ego."

I break ego's like balsa wood. :eek:
With my chi, of course.

[lkfmdc]

Master Killer, I will respond directly to you as everytime I don't spell out an answer in black and white I get accused of evading questions....

Re Shi Yan Ming, all he teaches are forms. Mostly contemporary wushu standardized sets. Yet he found it necessary in his classes to talk about how he was a san shou champion, how only shaolin is real san shou, how only he knows real san shou, and assorted BS...

I guess a lot of his students got tired of hearing about san shou while only do forms so they left, we have a pile of them in our schools.... they do nice stretch kicks, because that's all they do for like a month or two :)

[jmd161]

Well being one of the ppl on this forum that knows SifuAbel outside of this forum.That has seen him fight and have been hit by him also.

I feel sorry for you Mr.Ross!

I understand what you are saying about many kung fu schools and i agree to a point with you.But Kung Fu Connection in Miami,Fl is not one of those schools.Yes we did forms but we also did "Full Contact" sparring.Infact i would not call it sparring it was fighting!We had students at the school that were boxers both pro and amature.So there was no holding back when we sparred.We also had some guys that only cared about fighting.They did'nt care about forms and weapons training.

We dominated every tournament we entered in "Full Contact" not point sparring.Like you yourself said San Shou was not big in the US back then ,but there were full contact events.Most events we were DQ because we knocked out our opponents.:rolleyes:

I'm not doubting your experience and i sure to hell hope you're not taking SifuAbel lightly?

Anyway being that i know SifuAbel as a teacher,friend,and most important as a brother. I know when he is serious and means business.Just like he says you need to be ready at every corner you turn.Because just like he stated he's going to show up somewhere and he's going to be ready to fight!

I just hope for your sake you are all you claim to be?I remember a Wing Chun guy who got Abel ticked off and he beat that guy silly without the guy even landing anything.SifuAbel although a good person loves to fight.We did alot of fighting at our school whether you believe that or not .And it was'nt point fighting as you seem to think.

I've learned three different styles from two schools.Bak Sil Lum and Cheung Kune Pai from SifuAbel and Sifu Gus Rubio III at Kung Fu Connection.And now Black Tiger from C.Kuen Woo (Fred Woo) .In either school i've never done any of the things you say that TCMA schools do that bring kung fu a black eye.In both schools i've learned very rare styles with great lineages.If you have never heard of Chan Kwok Wai or Chin Bak Hay (Kenny Chin)then you have been lost somewhere.I know you have to have heard of the "Ten Tigers Of Canton" Su Hak Fu was one of them and created Hak Fu Muhn (Black Tiger Style).

To label all kung fu styles together because some do teach crap is a dumb thing on your part.The way you make it sound is that no one with TCMA teaching can fight. I guess that means you and your sifu as well? One thing you have to understand as a fighter is this.

Either you have "it" or you don't!

You can make up for somethings but if you could'nt fight at all before training.You'll never be a great fighter after training.Great fighters are'nt made.They are born and natural ability with training is what makes them great.

Good Luck Mr.Ross you are going to need it.


jeff:)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by jmd161
Well being one of the ppl on this forum that knows SifuAbel outside of this forum.That has seen him fight and have been hit by him also.

I feel sorry for you Mr.Ross!



Why does everyone around this place assume that if one person can fight, the other automatically can't. You know what would be a hoot? If SifuAbel and Coach Ross can BOTH fight and BOTH hit hard. Incomprehensible, I know. But I guess it's possible...

[Shaolin-Do]

A double KO would be zupa coolie. Ya?
:rolleyes:

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by Water Dragon


Why does everyone around this place assume that if one person can fight, the other automatically can't. You know what would be a hoot? If SifuAbel and Coach Ross can BOTH fight and BOTH hit hard. Incomprehensible, I know. But I guess it's possible...

Possible? It's sheer madness man! MADNESS!


;)

[MasterKiller]

Why does everyone around this place assume that if one person can fight, the other automatically can't. You know what would be a hoot? If SifuAbel and Coach Ross can BOTH fight and BOTH hit hard. Incomprehensible, I know. But I guess it's possible... Everyone here knows there is only one school in the U.S. that hits hard.

Everyone here also thinks it's his school.

[lkfmdc]

My only guess is that because jeff is a friend of Abel's he isn't reading slowly and clearly.

Dude, it's your friend who has deluded himself into thinking that I have no skill and this will be an easy victory. As I have said already a couple of times, sure, Abel my hit me, kick me, H E LL even throw me.

Problem for him is that I've been there, done that and have the t-shirt.

I have to laugh at loud at the stuff you say. Dude, I run a FIGHTING GYM. What do you think we do here? Since we produce guys that fight boxing, Muay Thai, San Shou, San Da and MMA don't you think we might spar full contact and know something about it?

Considering the bug up Abel's butt is my comments about traditional and forms and such, do you think I practice flowery forms all day?

So, is abel gonna be a B I T CH and run up on me from behind? I'm glad at least he posted some pictures so I can look out for him. Trust me, if we decide to do this the right way, start with us facing eachother, he's gonna find out real quick I am not a forms guy.

I love how you ask me if I have ever heard of the Ten Tigers of Guangdong, DUDE, my si-gung was the #! ranked Tiger, ie Wong Yan Lam....

Look it up sometime

[SifuAbel]

Lets see, a guy in this kind of shape.

SYM (http://www.shaolinwolf.com/Imagesqrst/sifurock2.jpg)

is scared of a guy in this kind of shape.

DAR (http://message.axkickboxing.com/images/user_uploaded/lkfmdc/me91002.jpg)


It doesn't make sense.

[Brad Souders]

I'm still ****ed off David Ross looked me in the eyes before my San Shou match and said " And remember NO CONTINUING ON THE GROUND" WTF Ross do i look like a grappler...O Wait......Nevermind

A punch is a punch no matter what u call it. And if u get stuck on the name game of where it comes from you'll probably end up getting hit by alot of them.

Brad Souders

[lkfmdc]

well Abel, consider the FACTS

you, you are in Los Angeles, so we can easily see why you and I fighting would have to wait, at least a little while

Shi Yan Ming is 15 minutes away from me at most. He's also had something like 2 years to respond

I'm out of shape and have no skills according to YOU, so he'd win easily, he could then acquire the 500 or so students we have...

Or if he lost, he'd be shown up to be the fraud he is?

A fight isn't a student helping you with a Chi Kung trick, it isn't a forms demonstration, it isn't a nice posed shot by a nice water fall. Maybe he'd get his skinny ass trounced and the sudden awesomeness of "shaolin" would be tarnished

Of course, if he hadn't talked crap about us to get this started in the first place, maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation

[MasterKiller]

Well, if shape were the only deciding factor in a fight, then Sin The' would beat them both! That old guy is cut.

[lkfmdc]

Hey Brad, we sent you a letter about the November event but it got returned, have you gotten the info? Interested in competing? This time, it is with knees :eek:

[Brad Souders]

I don't know what Sifu abel is or looks like but i can admit the first time i met Grand Wizard Master 8th dan Ross there the only thing i could think is my god how could i throw someone who is two of me and comes up to my chest. So i'll put money on him. Come on guys lets get traditional betting going on.

Ross by stomach headbutt 40 sec rd 1

[lkfmdc]

I know this is pointless because no one here watches "low" events like UFC, but I guess you never saw Jeremy Horn, Tank Abbot, Josh Bennett or "Cabbage"....

None are 5% body fat guys, all are TOP FIGHTERS...

I also notice a lot of the guys talking crap don't have their pics up where we can all look at them

[jmd161]

Mr.Ross,

I think you need to read my post S- L- O- W- L- Y!

I did not say you have no skill.I said i hope you have the skill you say that you do.

I just named the style of people we had at our school.I said nothing about your school or it's training.

You don't have to be affraid he's not going to jump you.He's going to come directly to your face. Let you know who he is ,why he's there,and what he's going to do.


The number one ranked tiger huh?

First off i said i know you have to have heard of the "Ten Tigers Of Canton".I did'nt ask if you've ever heard of them.You talk about i need to read and you did'nt read yourself.

Well there was no ranking of the tigers as you claim.Yes Wong Yein Lam was one of the Ten Tigers but he was not the #1 Tiger as you're trying to fool ppl into thinking.If there was a tiger that was foremost to the others it was Thit Kew Sam (Leong Khuen) known as "Iron Bridge Three".

Water Dragon,

Please point to the spot in my thread where i said Mr.Ross could not fight!

I guess you all missed this from the thread huh?


I'm not doubting your experience and i sure to hell hope you're not taking SifuAbel lightly?

Now who was the one assuming again?:rolleyes:



jeff:)

[SifuAbel]

No, darling, I'm not going to sucker you ala boztepe. "So I can look out for him", LOL!, you sound a bit paranoid, bubula.

And yes I will land punches , kicks and, dear Lord, throw you. But you will lose something. You be will schooled by me, an "obscure" fighter that should be inferior to you because you are this and a that and the other thing. All your clap trap about being the only FIGHTER here, as if writing it in bold makes it more real or more true, will be flushed down the toilet. It will be an embarrasment for you.

I can wait. I have a Loooooooong memory.

A 'forms" guy. LOL, I don't know about you or what you've been taught or what you've done with the forms given to you. All I can say is MY forms train the HECK out of my body. Along with eveything else I do, which includes, weight training, bag work, running, sparring and more, I'd say form work is an essential part. Its too bad you don't seem to enjoy the same effect. I don't need to stand in front of you to know you are not a "form" guy. I can see from here that your legs are thin, your arms a spindly and you generally look like clarabell the clown without his make up on.

So you can cut this "big man" routine. I'm your height , I out weigh you by 25 pounds and i'm nowhere near as FAT as you. UNLIKE you my back is bigger than my belly.

[Brad Souders]

Hmmmm did someone say knees. But i didn't realize the tournment was next month and i'm going into this event like i did the last one. With a week of training :D

here is my new address keep me updated

1739 Mountain Road
Warfordsburg pa 17267

Brad Souders

[Brad Souders]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
No, darling, I'm not going to sucker you ala boztepe. "So I can look out for him", LOL!, you sound a bit paranoid, bubula.

And yes I will land punches , kicks and, dear Lord, throw you. But you will lose something. You be will schooled by me, an "obscure" fighter that should be inferior to you because you are this and a that and the other thing. All your clap trap about being the only FIGHTER here, as if writing it in bold makes it more real or more true, will be flushed down the toilet. It will be an embarrasment for you.

I can wait. I have a Loooooooong memory.

A 'forms" guy. LOL, I don't know about you or what you've been taught or what you've done with the forms given to you. All I can say is MY forms train the HECK out of my body. Along with eveything else I do, which includes, weight training, bag work, running, sparring and more, I'd say form work is an essential part. Its too bad you don't seem to enjoy the same effect. I don't need to stand in front of you to know you are not a "form" guy. I can see from here that your legs are thin, your arms a spindly and you generally look like clarabell the clown without his make up on.

So you can cut this "big man" routine. I'm your height , I out weigh you by 25 pounds and i'm nowhere near as FAT as you. UNLIKE you my back is bigger than my belly.



LMAO!!!!!!

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Well, if shape were the only deciding factor in a fight, then Sin The' would beat them both! That old guy is cut.

He may just do so.

[lkfmdc]

Hey, hey, watch any reference to "Grand Wizard".... all I need now is someone saying I'm affiliated with the KKK

[Brad Souders]

LMAO OOPS

[Shaolin-Do]

lofl @ Souders.

"Well, if shape were the only deciding factor in a fight, then Sin The' would beat them both! That old guy is cut. "

I do have to say, that regardless of what he may have said, the old man is increadibly cut. He has a very deep understanding of accupressure as well...

[lkfmdc]

Abel, with all the consistent ****sexual references you make towards me, I wonder if this is a challenge or a date?

You said something about coming when I wouldn't expect it, so I simply said, "you aren't going to be a B I T CH and jump me are you"? Glad you have some B A LL S and will face me like a man.

Then again, you are still just talking tough from behind the keyboard. So when are you showing up dude? At least an approximation? Or is that too much to ask?

What's gonna happen when I start landing shots on you? I do hope you bring a camera with you, but of course, WINNER keeps the tape. I promise that if I win I'll make copies available. Then perhaps finally all the crap that keeps getting written on here will die down. Funny how even after the history of "challenges" on KFO this crap continues.

Again, while a whole pile of challenges were issued to me, let's not forgt only TWO GUYS EVER SHOWED UP, again, FULL RESPECT TO THEM, they seem the only two guys who are real warriors here.

Let's see if Shi Yan Ming wants to offer me a warm up match before I meet the "fearsome Abel" LMFAO

No one here seems to remember the Goira joke either I guess

I just love how you are trying to convince yourself that this is going to be an easy fight for you

"I can see from here that your legs are thin"

DUDE, ask someone who has seen me in person and see if they think my legs are thin....

actually, just refer to the kick pictures...

[lkfmdc]

since you constantly want to make it sound like you are a God-man and I am so horribly out of shape, I guess I will post another picture of myself, I'm not Frank Shamrock, but I still think most of you out there are just under weight, pencil neck geeks

BTW, able carefully framed his "kiu sao" pic to hide a bit of his own gut.....

[Brad Souders]

Ross's one leg is as round as my body. And i weighed 135 then. If i turned sideways and squated you couldn't see me. SAnd he is not fat by any means and his fighters and some real bad a** in the ring. AND if u think i'm saying this cuz i'm affiliated with him your wrong. H*ll i don't even like the guy.


Brad Souders

[Brad Souders]

<------ For Sure Under Weight Pencil Neck Geek

[lkfmdc]

All other bs aside,

Brad, do I do something to you? Never thought I insulted you, thought we treated you ok in the March event?

Seriously, I told EVERYONE not to fight on ground because we DID have a lot of MMA guys...

Seriosly, sorry for whatever, we liked your performance and hoped to see more of you at KD events

[Brad Souders]

lol sorry bro i was just havin some fun. I thought you, sanshouguru and mutant warrior are some of the most respectable, nicest people i've met along my years of competing and training. Don't mind me i'm just a smarta** and wanna see u punk this guy. Now for my actual serious thoughts these are directed to Sifu NotSoAble

Mr. Ross is not as out of shape as i seen u talking here. He was a great guy to shoot the sh*t with the couple minutes we got to talk and all his fighters impresssed me with their technique. Why talk sh*t on someone you don't know? Does his presences really make u feel that threatened you come here and start a so called challenge match.

I always thought tradition entitled honor which i see none from you. So where is your "tradition"

And once again i'm not affiliated with Ross but think he is a class act and he does run a fun clean event.

Brad Souders

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Well, if shape were the only deciding factor in a fight, then Sin The' would beat them both! That old guy is cut.

:D

[fa_jing]

"Again, while a whole pile of challenges were issued to me,"

On KFO? Do we have these threads archived??? I'd like to read them. Nothing like a good ole' internet challenge for mental masturbation.

:p

[lkfmdc]

I think everyone knows that MaoShan, Black Taoist and I had an argument on here. With all respect that MUST be given to both of them, basicly they said they'd like to come down, I said fine and after that poing it was handled 100% traditionally.

The end result was that we shook hands and have been 100% cool with eachother since. I still own MaoShan a cup of tea though :)

I respect them tremendously because while they are "traditional" they are real fighters, basicly we agree on a lot of stuff. They hate the clowns as well. In addition, unlike some people here, they are REALLY traditional, as in how they handled it all.

AGAIN, FULL RESPECT TO BOTH OF THEM.. If you want to do "traditional" yet want to fight, I'd say go to them.

Somewhere there are two threads from a real clown who wouldn't identify himself but came on here daily to talk trash about me. He said he needed a year to train and also would offer me money to fight him. Despite the fact that I agreed to fight him, and that HE said he wasn't ready, he still came on every day to talk trash.

Ultimately, I gave him 6 weeks to put up or shut up. I told him he didn't have to pay me a penny, but that if he wanted to keep running his mouth he'd have to fight me any time in the next 6 weeks. I thought that was ample time to find a time and spot to do it.

He said that he couldn't get the money together to pay me in 6 weeks like 100 times, even after I said I didn't want a penny.

He said he couldn't be ready in 6 weeks. So I told him basicly he was full of it and eventually he disappeared. That was actually a FUNNY thread if anyone can find it.

Oh well, I guess it's about time for Abel to post another thread talking about how tough he is and how I am a joke....

[Vash]

lkfmdc . . .

A few more questions, just to clarify a few things:

1) What is your main gripe when it comes to forms practice?
Do your opinions of forms practice change when the applications are practiced on a resisting opponent?

2) In terms of "traditional," how do you define this in regards to training?

[Brad Souders]

I thought i was a total f*cken crack head but Vash just put me to shame

[BAI HE]

Let's all hold hands now and sing! "KUMBAYA, my lord, KUMBAYA..."

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by lkfmdc

He said he needed a year to train and also would offer me money to fight him. Despite the fact that I agreed to fight him, and that HE said he wasn't ready, he still came on every day to talk trash.



LMMFAO!!!!!!!!! I just pi$$ed myself.

[lkfmdc]

I could answer this in a lot of ways, I guess that's how I'm gonna answer then...

Take Lama Pai, what is "traditional" about forms in this system? Well, Sing Lung who brought it from Qinghai to Canton taught 7 forms (hand sets). Since then we've gotten like maybe 100 sets through the various lineages that came after Sing Lung.

Do you do your lineage's sets? How about sets from another lineage? How about just Sing Lung's original seven?

How about the fact that before Sing Lung there were NO SETS. It was 100 roads of applications, like short one step sparring things.

Sorry, but forms came about in a big way with the first public schools in order to have something to sell the students so they'd keep paying every month. Ask the seven star mantis people who often learn a whole form just to learn ONE new technique!

At best, forms were a way to practice combinations and remember techniques. IN today's world, with today's schedules and today's students, just work the combinations, and work them on pads because that is more realistic. Want to remember stuff, WRITE IT DOWN or better yet VIDEO TAPE IT. Forms also have a lot to do with an illiterate culture.

Yeah, forms are good also when it's you and your teacher in the middle of no where. Today we have schools where people can work with other people, or with a bag for lord's sake!

Working in air gives you no resistance and no sense of impact. Look up my story about the guy who did 7 years of forms practice. Couldn't hit the bag to save his life.

And yes, if you aren't doing it on a resisting opponent, when they are also trying to do stuff to you, it isn't very realistic....

The whole traditional format, practicing basics in the air, doing forms, then doing "sparring sets", relying on stuff you can only talk about in theory because "it's too deadly" to actually practice, relying on stuff like "dim mak" or "secret advanced techniques", waiting for the next form so you cah learn teh defense to something, etc

It's all backwards and inefficient.

[Brad Souders]

What next MP and I are gonna have to explain why we don't do groundfighting forms?

[lkfmdc]

Brad, I've come to the conclusion that if I don't address every single question posed here in minute detail I'm subject to the charge I am evasive, so I'm bascily running remedial fght traiing 101 right now for the kids....

Please note, there WILL be an exam on this material

[Brad Souders]

LOL now that was funny.

Where is Sifu NotSoAble i want him to call me fat next.

Brad Souders

[rubthebuddha]

brad -- liar. we all kow you practice your bjj forms for hours. last thursday, you were working on holding your bridge for two hours to improve your "root."

ross -- when you talk like that, you're quite readable. when you talk like you did in the other threads, obviously you were ****ed and you came across as quite the arrogant bastage. i like the former a lot better, because insults aren't going to get people to listen to you, but logic, as your last post showed, will.

wd -- hope you were wearing your diapers. you've had these accidents far too many times to forget.

mk -- **** right. sin thé makes harry wong look like a wuss.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Brad Souders
What next MP and I are gonna have to explain why we don't do groundfighting forms?

Then what do you call the Upa and Shrimping drills? Don't do those?

[Brad Souders]

LOL if i was doing a bridge for two hours the only thing rooted would be my backbone in my brain