Critique This Technique

[Taomonkey]

The guy does not look happy

[The Willow Sword]

turn his chin towards the guys elbow to relieve pressure from the choke and then proceed to elbow the guy until he either lets go or his ribs turn to shardsand then he might let go after that

is that a cop that is choking him? was this at some sporting event? a riot? what? elaborate on the situation of this pic.

TWS

[apoweyn]

I'd guess he's a security guard at the stadium.

Choke seems to be working just fine. The size difference isn't hurting the security guard either though.

[truewrestler]

I don't think he'll be getting out of that one....night night :)

Someone told me that picture is from a recent baseball game (I think 5th game of Red Sox vs someone). The guy was taunting the players who collided going for a fly ball into center field. I don't know much more than that (edit: one of the two players that collided was taken off on a stretcher).

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
turn his chin towards the guys elbow to relieve pressure from the choke

This is the opposite of correct.

[Merryprankster]

Fatherdog has taken the opposite of correct and executed a vicious reverse body-lift on it, and therefore, pinned the correct.

[KC Elbows]

Yeah, I was about to say that moving towards the elbow was not likely unless you loosened the hold first, and then moving that way would be kind of putting yourself back in harm's way.

Question: If the guy brought his left leg slightly behind the bouncer, which would change the relative position of his body and, more importantly, neck, so that he was facing obliquely toward the bouncer's left pec, and used his left elbow/arm against the bouncer's mid section to buy room, would that loosen the hold? Assuming that the person doing this were not a drunk baseball fan with a panicked look on his face, of course.

[Merryprankster]

KC Elbows has joined Father Dog in pinning the correct and the WWE fans are screaming.

[Ray Pina]

At that point and size disadvantage it looks grim, but maybe try:

taking the left arm out and bringing it over the guys shoulder making a fulcrum point with the left elbow and the guys upper back/shoulder, then put the left fist in the guys neck. Drill the elbow into his back and the fist into his face. If you just go for the face he can turn his head away and slip it ... of course he'll have to step out a little bit to change the position a bit. Bad position though. He lost too many battles to begin with.

[old jong]

One of my fellow co-worker was once holding a delirious patient in the same way.The patient ,unaware or ignoring the "correct" way of getting out of a rear choke reacted simply by violently inserting his left thumb in my friend.s eye!...
His lesson of the day was; always hide you face when using such a hold on a psychotic or schisophrenic person who see creatures crawling out of the walls!...

(My friend was out of the game for a few weeks but they saved his eye)

[The Willow Sword]

but not get out of the choke hold. i mean if you are getting locked like that you are going to need to breathe, right? the cop's forearm is closing off the throat and the guy will not be able to breathe, by turning his head to the cops elbow(from the angle of the pic he would turn it to the right slightly with his chin pointed at the cops elbow) this allows some relief from the choke.
i mean he is still locked in but now he will be able to breath enough to either attempt something or to be able to move with the cop and not get his larynx crushed.

i should have been more specific on my explanation earlier but i seem to remember that this is a martial arts forum and that most here have been taught how to deal with rear choke holds like that? :confused: duhhhhh.

TWS

[Merryprankster]

Then most have been taught incorrectly. While it does indeed relieve the direct pressure on the larynx, it changes into a blood choke if you turn your chin towards the elbow. Blood chokes work MUCH faster.

Anybody with an ounce of sense is going to shut down any space to elbow the ribs. Assuming you get one shot in, you're unlikely to get two unless you've hurt him so bad it's almost over anyway.

[fa_jing]

They tell me that having your blood cut off at the sides of your neck is worse than the windpipe choke.

[Chang Style Novice]

Willer -

I think the main problem with turning toward the elbow at that point is that the guys chin is already AWAY from the elbow, so moving it closer to a perpendicular angle to the cop's arm is going to increase pressure before decreasing it. If the guy was already pointing his chin slightly to his right (our left) you're idea might be feasible.

But I'm ready to be wrong about that.

edit - and indeed! I've crossposted with explanations that seem to show I'm mistaken. Hooray for falliabiliity!

[David Jamieson]

The guy in the visor is going down.

He needs both hands at the holders wrist and he needs them there fast to loosen it and avoid either being put into unconciousness by blood loss or air loss as his laranyx gets squished.

His hand at chokers elbow is useless. except if he knew to push laterally there and pull the wrist while turning his head to his left all at the same time in one motion. But that is unlikely and he doesn't appear to have the strength to do that particular release.

Big dude is obviously powerful and athletic supporter needs to act fast or tap.

if he can loosen he might be able to escape.
He could possibly small circle the chokers fingers once loosened up as well, but really, he looks like he is just about to sleep in that one. Choker is obviously totally dominating athletic supporter.

just my 2 cents, or .000043 cents usd

cheers

[KC Elbows]

Actually, I agree with CSN. I think you'd have a pretty hard time turning toward the elbow on a guy with arms like that, and locked in like that. So, while it would be risky to go towards the elbow, I'd be shocked if it were possible on that guy, with the hold the way he has it there, unless he let it happen. Albeit, I could be wrong.

And elbows are not all that likely to make this guy give up his position. You're almost stuck seeking to save your keister by altering the guy's position, because the lock is on, it's not like you've caught it before it was secure.

One way we do it in six elbows, and it might not be the best, but it seems to work, is to step behind like I said before, turn away from the elbow, while immediately putting your arm up almost like a boxer covering your ear, but with the elbow higher. Continue turning, using the side of your arm/elbows to press against to torso of the bouncer. This may not put you in the perfect position, but it can sometimes break the choke, because it tends to unbalance the guy, since his upper body is being pressed backwards a little by your elbow, pushing his center over the leg you moved behind him.

[Ray Pina]

MP, does BJJ train nerve chokes?

[Merryprankster]

Never heard of one. Sounds suspiciously like some sort of accupressure type job. Not big on that sort of thing, myself.

[truewrestler]

Never heard of one. Sounds suspiciously like some sort of accupressure type job. Not big on that sort of thing, myself. MP, maybe like digging your fist/knuckles into the side of the neck/artery.... on an ezekiel for example.

...or maybe not :)

[Starchaser107]

don't like the look, or dependability of the rear choke when done this way. despite how stong the cop is this lock can be escaped much easier than the modified version of the rear choke , also known as the sleeper.

[tnwingtsun]

In addition to being the logical thing to do,turning AWAY from the elbow would put the choked to the choker's centerline and give him that split second to breath,circulate and draw the officers weapon,that would cause him to turn loose very fast.

But being an Oakland fan sweetpea there is probably about to cream his jeans and having the time of his life.:D

[Shaolin-Do]

All of these escape explanations are great... cept that no one really seems to be thinking that there are bleachers inhibiting your ability to step.
;)

Turning chin to the elbow would immediately put pressure on his left coronary artery(Thats the right artery, right?) Blood chokes DO work waaay faster...
Best bet is to take leverage off the neck, and tumple the cops azz over the bleachers that are already about to basically sweep him for you.
:)

[The Willow Sword]

lets all of us texas peeps who live in a fairly close radius to one another go to the park and choke each other and try to find ways to escape it. we can then go have a beer and some fajitas afterwards at "Curras grill"(which is awesome tex mex).

you know its hard to really explain how something should be done unless it is tested. i mean reaction time is a factor and it would seem from the pic that the cop got it in fast enough to lock down on the guy. HOWEVER,,,,there might be a chance to attempt something. but you know when i think about it,,,this is a cop,,,,he is arresting someone who is apparently deserving of arrest. to fight the cop by trying some thing like what tnwingstun suggests is by far the dumbest thing you can do with a cop. i am sure that if you tried to work your way to go for his gun that he might let you go but he aslo might draw and fire on you as well.

SO how about another Meeting of minds and choke holds in the park? waddaya say texas peeps. im game for it if others are.
(note: this aint no challenge thing and it sure as hell isnt an invitation to go brawling and spouting off who is better than who)

we have done things like this before and it turned out okay although the last time guys like me and CSN and GGL and others met, we got rained on.
So anyway its out there if you guys are interested.
TWS

[Shaolin-Do]

Im up for whatever.
Id like you to show me a little bit of qigong too, actually.
this weekend is no good tho, BOB MARLEY FEST MOFO!
;)
Its like a stoner crimmus party.
Oh yeah... remind me once the time is right... I have great crimmus poems. :eek:

At zilker or what? I havent been there in ages... Any weekend but this one, or the 30th/31st is good for me. CPA will probably be comming as well.

[KC Elbows]

Even with bleachers, it shouldn't take much room to hook one leg behind the bouncers, since a good hook will almost supplant the leg, not circle around it.

It's not the best scenario, but better odds, imo, than just trying to use your upper body against his.

[Shaolin-Do]

Id just use my gun.
Nothing gets you out of trouble like shooting a cop.

[KC Elbows]

Don't forget the witnesses. In this guy's case, the correct response was clearly 1) shoot the cop, followed by 2) don his environment suit and wipe out the crowd with biological weapons.

However, had he developed his listening skills, he would've felt all of this coming before even leaving his trailer, in which case he could've had the entire stadium devastated by orbital bombardment.

The way this usually works is this:

DRUNKEN SCHLUB[TO HIMSELF]: Yep, just about ready for the big game[DOWN'S A MICKEY'S WIDE MOUTH LIKE A HIGH PRICED ESCORT WITH RENT DUE], got my beer, got my haayat, got my[DOWN'S SECOND MICKEY'S INTO THE VACUUM LIKE PIT OF HIS GUT] White Lion Greatest Hit compact disk. Now what am I forgetting? Oh yeah, I'm a drunken fool just asking for a headlock. Geez, how could I forget that? I'd best just commence the aerial bombardment.

That's how the pros do it.

[tnwingtsun]

The Wille Sword said.....

"to fight the cop by trying some thing like what tnwingstun suggests is by far the dumbest thing you can do with a cop."

Well no $hit sherlock, brilliant observation,which school of higher learning hatched you??

Maybe the same one that told you to turn towards the elbow:rolleyes:

[The Willow Sword]

would be good for me because next weekend i have to go to houston for a funeral.(step-grandfather died) so i gotta be there for the services and all that(cremation, cast in to the sea have a beer get drunk sort of funeral it will be.)

so if not this weekend or next then how about the one after?
those interested PM me or somthing.

You KNOW i did some searching and i FOUND TNWINGTSUN.
i found out who HE is. i just want to share this with everyone.

here is TWINGSTUN: http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/burger/html

[fragbot]

Originally posted by fa_jing
They tell me that having your blood cut off at the sides of your neck is worse than the windpipe choke.

In one way, it's worse to get a strangle put on you--you can be out in 3-4* seconds--whereas a choke across the larnyx takes a long time before you're out. Likewise, if I put hadaka jime (rear naked) on an untrained guy's carotids, he tends not to get as freaked out as when I put it on incorrectly and I start closing off his windpipe.

However, a strangle is, IMO, much safer in practice since there's little structural damage** you can do. I know of at least two instances where a guy got an injured larnyx (both required medical attention; the more serious one ended up at the emergency room) when somebody used the choking version instead of the strangling version.


*as anyone who's been too stubborn to tap and heard the buzzing in their ears can tell you, that's not an exaggeration.

**I once looked for evidence that this might cause a carotid dissection (ala Brian Johnston's stroke), but I never found anything suggesting it did.

[Serpent]

Two things:

1. KC Elbows has the correct in a rear naked choke.

2. Willow Sword - You're WRONG! Just accept it and listen to people that know better. Or are you gonna have to have your arse kicked again before you listen and stop thinking you know it all?

[KC Elbows]

fragbot said

I once looked for evidence that this might cause a carotid dissection (ala Brian Johnston's stroke), but I never found anything suggesting it did.

Dude, are you sparring people, then killing and dissecting them again? KFO sicko.:D

[The Willow Sword]

never said OR implied that i "know it all"

i mean this IS a forum right? we CAN post our opinions right?
and so far in this thread i havent said anyone elses technique is wrong have i? NO i havent. so take your self riteous BS and cram it back up your a$$ crossways.

TWS.

[Serpent]

Dude, you just keep trying to press your suggestion when many people have told you that it won't work.

Thas'all I'm sayin'

:)

[BAI HE]

We can talk our way through counters all night, fact is it looks like a the choke was trown on and sunk before the drunk fan knew what was happenning. One guy doing his job, one guy off the job getting drunk.

Submission grapplers now claim another victory over Kung-Fu!

[WannabeWarrior]

aunting multimillionaires playing a kids game is grounds for legalized asault?

The escape has been well described here but once space is made why bother punching when the Cop is kind enough to have a nice 5 pointed weapon for drunk fan to use on his chest, face or neck right there on his stuffed shirt?

[WannabeWarrior]

you know the only time something like this happened to me it was a department store security gaurd who thought I had lifted my own Palm Pilot from his store. Before I could do anything my girlfriend used her grand ultimate style and knocked him out cold with her suitcase (uh, I mean purse darling). Is that a viable escape technique? :D

[The Willow Sword]

i am not pressing my suggestion on to anyone. i am clarifying, from my first post, what i meant as a means of possible escape from the choke. okay so some are saying that it wont work. okay thats fine thats an OPINION. the truth is that we will never know if said technique will work unless we try and see,,,THATS WHY i suggested that some of us texas peeps get together and play around with it.

so again serpent re-read my above post before this one.

TWS

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
i am not pressing my suggestion on to anyone. i am clarifying, from my first post, what i meant as a means of possible escape from the choke. okay so some are saying that it wont work. okay thats fine thats an OPINION.

No, it's a fact. The way you described WILL NOT get you out of a choke, and will in fact sink it deeper and put you out quicker. You are not just wrong, you are the complete and polar opposite of right.



the truth is that we will never know if said technique will work unless we try and see

I've been choked more times than I can conveniently count; I've had ample opportunity to "try and see". So has MerryPrankster. So has everyone else who is telling you that you are completely and categorically wrong.

[Merryprankster]

So has MerryPrankster.

Speak for yourself! :P

[Tak]

Submission grapplers now claim another victory over Kung-Fu!

Yeah, looks like the fan was trying out his newly acquired Drunken Heckling style.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


Speak for yourself! :P

Hey, I didn't say successfully choked :D

[Shaolin-Do]

Ahhhh too late now Fatherdog. We all know you get choked out by women and children.
:eek:



:D

[Ray Pina]

No, not like a dim mak thing. Actual locks around the head and other locations. Work instantly.

I don't know them! But I have seen my master put them on a few BJJ guys who came to play with him and they were very excited, said they hadn't seen it before. They're now training with us which is great. Because of them we've incorporated Gi's as part of our standard class gear.

Sometimes we take out boxing gloves. Sometimes we take out Gis. It's fun. Makes me feel young again because of Issin-ryu memories.

[Serpent]

WillowSword - read Fatherdog's post very carefully and slowly.

[KC Elbows]

It's not such a big thing, but far be it from me to stop everyone from ganging up on a guy and beating him like an adultress showing some ankle at a taliban fund raiser. :p

Anyway, the other problem with going to the crook of the arm, imo, is that it still leaves your neck in the opponent's control. Even excluding sleepers and carotid closure, your neck is in danger, and thus, you are in danger. I just think it's best to have urgency getting your neck free of ANY hold, and so I think it's better to make your first step getting free, not your second.

On the flip side, if you can get your chin dropped, it's better than nothing, but that hold is on, and you are at the other person's mercy.

It's interesting that the main voiced concern with having your neck encircled is unconsciousness, and not crippling injury. Because the guy's security and thus somehow "trusted"? or because of competition mindset? Not that it affects how well you can escape, just got me thinking. Would a neck break from there be faster than a choke and/or closing off the carotid? Or do I watch too many old movies?

[Serpent]

It's actually really hard to break a neck, even from a position like that. Mind you, look at that dude's forearm! :eek:

However, I won't discount considerable cartilage damage or bone chips - the vertbrae are lumpy little bones. Then there's muscle tears, etc.

There's also holding the choke too long and starving the brain of oxygen into brain damage, but that's unlikely.

And yes. You watch too many old movies. ;)

[The Willow Sword]

you say that i am wrong, okay then. you say my method wont work, ok then. i am the polar opposite of correct then right? okay then.

just remember that even though you think what you are saying is FACT. i KNOW from paying attention in school that your comments are OPINIONS, and so are mine.

:cool: TWS

[tnwingtsun]

That must be how you got your arse handed to you

[Shaolin-Do]

Hehehe...
ATTN Peoples....
I learned a pretty nifty counter to the choke hold... starts off turning your head to the crook of the elbow...
Guess TWS wasnt that wrong after all.
:eek:

[fragbot]

Originally posted by KC Elbows

It's interesting that the main voiced concern with having your neck encircled is unconsciousness, and not crippling injury. Because the guy's security and thus somehow "trusted"? or because of competition mindset? Not that it affects how well you can escape, just got me thinking. Would a neck break from there be faster than a choke and/or closing off the carotid? Or do I watch too many old movies?

I presume there are numerous people besides myself on this forum who have been choked unconscious.

I'll hazard a guess that while there are numerous people on this forum who've been neck cranked there's *no one* on this forum who's had anyone break or dislocate their neck.

In any case, with the exception of time frame (highly, er, compressed with a break), I can't see how the counter would be any different.

As an aside, while I've trained several neck breaks in my lifetime, I can honestly say I have no confidence in them. Those who do are in a disjoint set of the scariest people on earth and the scariest people in their own mind.

[Serpent]

The Willow Sword:


you say that i am wrong, okay then. you say my method wont work, ok then. i am the polar opposite of correct then right? okay then.

just remember that even though you think what you are saying is FACT. i KNOW from paying attention in school that your comments are OPINIONS, and so are mine.


tnwingtsun:


That must be how you got your arse handed to you


:D

Couldn't have said it better myself.

TWS, what you are suggesting is like saying that an effective block for a powerful front kick is to absorb it on your face. Sure, it will slow down the kick and end the confrontation, but it's absolutely not the right thing to do.

[Shaolin-Do]

I learned a throw from it. Works either way. Doesnt matter which way you turn your head unless you suck. You gotta be pretty slow... we worked it tonight.

Edit: At lest while throwing. :)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
I learned a throw from it. Works either way. Doesnt matter which way you turn your head unless you suck. You gotta be pretty slow... we worked it tonight.

Edit: At lest while throwing. :)

Dude, you try to throw a guy like that when he has you locked like that he'll rip your head clean off.

Unless you are referring to the trip throw described earlier (stepping behind his leg) in which case you'd snap your on neck if you tried to do that and turn your head toward his elbow at the same time.

[Shaolin-Do]

Ok.
:rolleyes:

[CrippledAvenger]

SD--

I think I learned that too, but the problem is, it's not off a rear naked choke. It's off a normal headlock, which is most certainly NOT the same thing.

I could very easily be wrong though. Which throw are you using to counter it, and are we talking headlock or rear naked choke?

[KC Elbows]

SD, describe it. I'm curious, and not saying it's absolutely impossible, but it just doesn't jibe with my experiences. i.e. share your knowledge here.

Fragbot,
I inferred that the counter would be the same. I was just commenting on the fact that perhaps that thinking didn't place the proper urgency on getting out.

And while I agree neck breaks may not be as sure as chokes, I'm not about to volunteer to verify their efficacy.

[truewrestler]

Interestingly, last night in Judo we practiced turning our head toward the elbow, making sure to tuck the chin behind the elbow, and then throwing.

[Shaolin-Do]

"Interestingly, last night in Judo we practiced turning our head toward the elbow, making sure to tuck the chin behind the elbow, and then throwing."

:eek:

Crip- Im talking about off a rear naked choke.

[KC Elbows]

Could one of you describe this manuever?

[KC Elbows]

Okay, got the description through PM on one version of this. I'll have to try it out, it's pretty simple. Maybe they'll post it here. It's more a throw than previous apps we were comparing, from what I understand over the right shoulder? Anyway, the version mentioned to me could have your head move either toward the elbow or away. I'd still move away.

Truewrestler, does this sound anything like the throw you're talking about?

[truewrestler]

sure

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by truewrestler
Interestingly, last night in Judo we practiced turning our head toward the elbow, making sure to tuck the chin behind the elbow, and then throwing.

If you successfully throw the guy, it doesn't matter which way you turned your head.

If you don't successfully throw the guy, you just turned a windpipe choke into a blood choke. Goodnight, Irene.

If you turn away from his elbow, you free your breathing AND defend from a blood choke.

If you turn towards his elbow but manage to get your jaw in between, all the guy has to do is keep squeezing, and you'll be put out with a jaw compression (it puts pressure on where your (closed) jaw meets your skull, in the same way that a knockout punch to the chin does) Slower than a choke, but puts you out all the same, and can damage your jaw.

TURNING TOWARDS THE ELBOW IS A BAD IDEA. PERIOD.

So tired... so very tired....

[Shaolin-Do]

"over the right shoulder? Anyway, the version mentioned to me could have your head move either toward the elbow or away. I'd still move away."

More or less straight over head. Will be more to whichever side you step back with. Depends on which side the choke came from.

[ShaolinTiger00]

lmao @ "neck breaking" and nerve chokes.. I love this place!

TW's "throw" is a standard self defense technique.

Turn into the elbow while simultaneously pulling down at Both (important) the wrist and elbow with your hands.

Bend at the knees to get under his hips

Now throw him with seionage (or even drop seio).

This has to be done speedily.

This won't work if the circumstances are as follows:

His choke is already so tight and painful that you can't move

He has pulled you backwards on your heels.


Personally I am rather fond of a similar but different counter. starting with creating space to breathe, and turning into him to reap his closest foot - o-soto gari

also if he is choking me and has tried to bend me over I'll turn towards the outside, swing my inside leg behind him and rip him off the ground - sukui nage.

but fact is I know these work for me. I've practiced them alot. and just by themselves, the throws are things that I apply on a regular training basis, so I'm good at hitting them from many positions and angles..

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/kata/katago6.gif

Attacker puts his right arm around the defender's neck from the rear to apply hadaka jime. Defender tucks in his chin and pulls the arm down from his throat. He then steps forward with the right foot, turns to the left ducking under the choke, forcing attacker's arm into the te gatame armlock with his right hand on the attacker's elbow and left hand grasping the wrist.

[KC Elbows]

ST, would you allow someone with arms like that to get you in that position and violently shake/twist your neck? I didn't think so.

I'm not claiming "deadly teachnique" here, I'm just saying necks are just funky joints that run into trouble from just sleepoing on them funny. It may not be likely to cause a break, but since I assume you're not in prison for murder or paralyzed, you wouldn't know any better than anyone else in the civilized world. Might not work at all, but anyone who wants to volunteer to be the test subject for that is an idiot, imo.

Neat apps, though.

I still favor going to the other side, because it's more likely to work even late in the lock coming down: oit's a higher percentage move, whereas if the lock is on, going toward the elbow, as you said, won't work.

[The Willow Sword]

chiming in with what i suggested earlier actually working and people are now curious about it would it be too much in asking for an apology from the detractors? or are they not man enough to do so?

thought not. anyway. im done with this thread.

TWS

[iblis73]

This is a dynamic tactical situation, lets not forget people dont just walk up and slap chokes on you (well, hopefully not.) As Kelly Mccann has said, "you just dont want to be here." Dude is in a bad spot, the bleachers will impede his feet. Also, the cop isnt likely to just stand there whilst drunken monkey boy counters....the cop could drop his weight straight down, bringing our chokee down with him......but the cop also has so restrain/remove the offender, which offers more opportunities for counters......

[KC Elbows]

TWS,
I never said it was impossible, I just wanted to hear how, not that it MIGHT be possible. I still don't see that it confers any advantage, and I still think moving the other way offers nowhere near the same setbacks as moving toward the elbow.

iblis,
sure, it's a bad spot, but it's not by default the end. The guy is alert but panicked, imo, and that means that the strength of the choke and fear of the choke are beating this guy before the actual choke. Just my opinion, of course. Which means someone who trained to deal with this wouldn't be choked out yet. However, I could be wrong, he might be out on his feet, I dunno.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
chiming in with what i suggested earlier actually working and people are now curious about it would it be too much in asking for an apology from the detractors? or are they not man enough to do so?

I maintain that

A) Your original suggestion was an incredibly bad idea

B) Your subsequent suggestions were still bad ideas

C) All of your contributions to this thread display profound ignorance.

[Serpent]

What Dawg said.

;)

[Merryprankster]

tuck the chin behind the elbow

TWS, this is the part you were missing in your description. It's VITAL. Bottom line, defend the choke first, get your face between their arm and your neck. Figure out whatever else you'd like to do later. Note that ST00, TW, and FatherDog's contributions all emphasize removing the choke.

You can't just "turn your chin towards their elbow." If you're going to turn your head, turn to wherever space is and tuck.

FatherDog, IMO it's pretty hard to put somebody out with Jaw Compression--can be done--I've been victim to it myself, but not so simple. Just my opinion. Besides, in this situation, you're really just looking to buy time. Anything else is a dumb idea, yeah?

[Serpent]

It's all academic anyway. A real fighter would have prevented the rear naked from being applied in the first place.

:)

[Shaolin-Do]

I real fighter would have twitched his shoulder and sent the security guard flying like the dudes in that cr@ppy pushing hands video.
:o

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
FatherDog, IMO it's pretty hard to put somebody out with Jaw Compression--can be done--I've been victim to it myself, but not so simple. Just my opinion.

Depends on how it's applied and to whom, I'd imagine. I've caught a couple people with it when they turned the chin in to defend the choke, and tapped them out in seconds. On the other hand, I've never been tapped to it, and I've got it locked in hard on some people who just flat out didn't tap either. All in all, I'd say it's a reasonable thing to try for but not to rely on... and I wouldn't plan my defense on not being susceptible to it.




Besides, in this situation, you're really just looking to buy time. Anything else is a dumb idea, yeah?

Pretty much, yeah. In a ring situation, I'd drop to the ground and then hip-heist into the guy's guard and proceed from there, but I don't think that's a good response when standing in bleachers :D