Breaking the root and other grappling stuff

[zen_celt]

Hey guys. The other night I was at a football game and got into an impromptu wrestling match. It was broken up by the narcs(security) before there was a pin but I feel I was on the way to a win. However, I know it could have been shorter and I probably should have done some stuff differently. I'm going to try to lay it out for you all and see if you can help me analyze the match and see what I can do better next time, since my friend wants a rematch when we aren't on concrete or in trouble with the narcs. BTW, this is high school sort wrestling rules so no punching. biting, etc.
Here goes:

I'm not sure how we closed but I remember attempting a half-assed shoot. It didn't work and Fred(as I'll call my opponent) grabbed me around the chest with my head sorta between his legs(we're both still standing).

I wrapped my right arm around the bag of his left leg and tried to wrench it out of place but he was rooted so strongly that I couldn't get it to budge.(how do I break the root?)

We went to the ground somehow with me on top but my back to Fred. As we grappled for an advantage, I felt him trying to lean me over to the side so he could "snake" me from behind. He did manage to pull me to the side but I knew what was coming so I barely stopped the pin. (how do I keep from even getting to the point where being snaked is a possibility?)

Eventually we wound up back on top of each other with him holding my leg and me started to twist his arm but the narcs stopped us then.

I don't know if this is enough info to get any help but I would appreciate whatever I can get. I'll try to clarify if possible.

My main questions are: How do I break the root? I've thought of trying to jump/push off my feet while lifting Fred's leg and driving into him, but I worry he'll just fall on top of me and lock me up.

How do I break the snake and keep from getting there?

How do I shoot in on someone staying low to the ground? And if I can't shoot, what do I do?

Sorry about being kinda vague, but thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.
-Z

[jimmy23]

not sure from your post, heres some basic principles.

1 bring the knees together. if the bad guys knees are together, its an easy takedown.

2 have ground mobility.

THis allows you to move when the bad guy tries to immobilize you after a shoot, and to work for point 1

3 NEVER shoot without a set up. Generally, you want to get his weight (balance) high. An eye gouge , a jab, a spear to the throat, anything to make him (preferably in an insticntive manner) lean back or stand up straighter.

4 learn ankle picks.

Not that hard, and a classic technicque for a pure grapler (or a not so pure grappler) to pull a guy down.

5 shoot with momentum!

without your weight behind it, a shoot is worse than useless, it is dam dangerous, as you end up in a bad position. Just as many types of strike must penetrate, so must a shoot.

If you were in a clinch before the shoot, this is a whole new world. In the clinch, a guy can feel your movement ( the reason a clinch is so grat defensively) and you have to gouge to get his weight up. A true wrestler can teach you other ways to do it, but Im not a true wrestler and these are general principles only.


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

[jimmy23]

just re read your post. If it s a friendly match, psuh him up (penetrating shoove to the chest) and shoot low (ankle pick is ideal) and get major penetration.


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

[Merryprankster]

What Jimmy23 said for the shot... although, if you find your head between his legs, you actually aren't too bad off... get each hand on their respective leg, near the knee get your hips underneath you, and simply lift up with your back while pushing his legs up at the same time. His legs will be off the ground. Then, turn to the side, while keeping control of the legs... pull your head out as you do this. It's much simpler that way. Then, work your way up his body.

In order to prevent the "snake" as you call it, don't reach back, and keep your limbs in tight. If he tries to reach under your arm from behind, for instance, pinch your elbows into your body.

As far as the pin goes, there are many ways to avoid it. However, most wrestling counters to pins involve moving in such a way that your back is to your opponent. This is a phenomenally bad idea in a fight. You might prefer to learn some guard work from a BJJer.

[Godzilla]

Nice thread zen…

What is an ankle pick? I am assuming it is kicking at the ankle of your opponent in order to get him to lift his foot off the ground.

I am a TKDist and appreciate your ‘general rules’ for shooting jimmy. BTW TKDists almost always have much more weight on one leg. We believe if someone kicks at our front leg (the one with less weight on it) we still have our other leg for balance. We never consider someone may just grab onto it and not let go until we are on our back helpless (we just wait for the ref to break us up!).

Thanks for the tips!

Godzilla

[jimmy23]

an ankle pick is a low, low shoot. Youll be almost laying on the ground when youre done. Essentially, you go really low, put you arms around the bad guys ankle, shrug your shoulders and "run " forward with your legs. Youll be pulling his ankle backwards, almost under you, and moving forward with the body .


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

[Jaguar Wong]

yes the ankle pick is quite effective. A great example is in Mark Kerr's earlier career fights (not the Ranger Stott one). He had a killer low single/ankle pick that basically gets inside range without exposing himself to any good solid kicks, and is well below any punching range.

I have no ability to execute an ankle pick whatsoever, but after seeing it done I always feared any type of knee injury if someone were to use it on me. Much to my suprise it's more of a tailbone injury, because you basically whip toward the ground with your ankle as the pivot point. After that I learned to cushion that fall but I still have a hard time getting away from it, or gaining a good defensive position afterwards. At least with a single leg, I can attempt the guard.

Jaguar Wong

[GinSueDog]

Jimmy23, Godzilla
Actually, I don't think that is an ankle pick, check this site out. It has a clear step by step takedown using an ankle pick and shows a sweet kneebar towards the end.-ED

P.S.-Think of an ankle pick as folding a knife if that helps.

http://www.geocities.com/josephgarza/tech015.html

"Ninjas are not dangerous. They are more afraid of you than you are of them." --The Tick

[Jaguar Wong]

Cool, thanks GinSue!
I guess I fall for ankle picks far more often than I would have imagined. My brother uses it, but I don't think he learned it anywhere specific. Maybe from a rasslin' friend of ours, but I'm not sure.

Jaguar Wong

[GinSueDog]

Jag,
No problem, that site has a lot of good submissions and takedowns on it. Tons of leg locks. Have fun and don't beat tigerstyle up too badly ;)-ED

"Ninjas are not dangerous. They are more afraid of you than you are of them." --The Tick

[Jaguar Wong]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Have fun and don't beat tigerstyle up too badly [/quote]

Too late... ;)

Jaguar Wong

[jimmy23]

nice site! thx!


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

[Kung Lek]

copying this one into the street/reality forum.

peace

Kung Lek

[GinSueDog]

Here is the full ink to the site...

http://www.geocities.com/josephgarza/archives

Enjoy!-ED

"Ninjas are not dangerous. They are more afraid of you than you are of them." --The Tick