Gin Soon Tai Chi

[Ford Prefect]

lol @ these clips. We have Gin Soon people here, right? You guys know the deal with this?

http://www.gstaichi.org/videoClips.html

The first two series of "demonstrations" are the best. Enjoy!

[BAI HE]

Yes, it appears a small asian man is pushing "Meathead"
from "All in the Family" around. They are both wearing t-shirts that from the "Hey look! I'm a road flare collection" as well

Those are some of the funniest MA clips I've ever seen.

A fellow BGZ/XY student in my school does her TC there and has great PH skills, but as far as those clips go? I don't know what to say except "Archie, be nice to the Meathead, Archie!"

[Tak]

My favorite is the part where Meathead gets pushed into a ballet routine.

[8gates]

Hey BAI HE
Isn't GIN SOON TAI CHI KWOON in your State?
LOL :D

[8gates]

Hey BAI HE
Isn't GIN SOON TAI CHI KWOON in your State?
LOL :D

[BAI HE]

Yep. Good rep. but straaaaange clips.

[Buddy]

And Albert DiSalvo.. wasn't he from your state? Lizzy Bordan and all? You should by god be ashamed of yourself
Cyrus Goodbody

[BAI HE]

I'm only ashamed of Romney. He's really beating the bag out of the underprivledged!

[bamboo_ leaf]

Can any of the people posting duplicate what is shown?

It would be interesting to read this is bad because: (fill in the blank)

This clip has been posted on different sites usually with the same negative comments, I have yet to read of any poster saying, yes I can do this too it’s no big deal, or yes I felt this and the videos show pretty much what has to be experienced to be understood.

Yes I have felt this and the experience has to be really experienced to really appreciate what is happening

[BAI HE]

That is your experience then. Would you have someone fake "feeling" it for you?

I know these folks have skill, first hand mind you. But the clips are definately "out there". They also in no way diminish the effectiveness of TCC by doing so. They do deserve some of the ridicule they have atrracted IMO.

As such, I have to listen to the ridicule being an IMA player and I don't much appreciate it.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Bamboo Leaf.

Vincent Chu has got some very high skill from what I know, never had a chance to meet him though.

The first time I watched those clips my reply was "WTF" and my disbelief got bigger after I saw on whose website they were.

Now I am not as experienced as you and many others here in TJQ, but a lot of those clips looked totally staged, faked and don't correspond with anything I know about Tui Shou and people being bounced out.
At times it looked as if the guy being "bounced out "simply jumped and twisted to look good for the camera.

Like I have said I have seen quiet a bit of TJQ form different styles and lineages and nothing even remotely looked like what I saw in those clips.

FWIW, soon we will heve a big TJQ meeting/tournament(all styles) over here, and I will try to ask some of the visiting masters from China about those clips and their opinion about Vincent Chu.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Your reaction as well as the many who posted before is common and expected.
This in itself is not bad. All I asked is that people try to duplicate what was shown.
I’m betting most can’t.

I think the reason is that most people think of pushing as physically pushing the other person, instead of leading using mind intent. With people of vastly different skills from the first touch the other can feel his center being put off balance, the body tends to follow this as a reaction. For the onlooker it’s hard to say it’s not fake as it looks like the person being pushed is actually jumping, which in a way he is but not consciously. Think of almost stepping into a hole and you jump back before you realized what was happing.

For the person being pushed at least from my own experience, it feels like your falling with the other person helping your direction in the fall. Depending on your listing ability you might be able to feel the process as it’s happing or just end up falling out.


From the many comments on push hands,many seem to view push hands as some type of contest instead of a development / testing tool. Veiwed in this context its also hard i think to accept and see whats going on with out personnel exprince.

Just returned from china where I met some very interesting taiji players all of them can do what V-Chu did and much more. I also met some very good taiji players who didn’t have this same type of skill, its not common.

[Walter Joyce]

I have trained at Gin Soon's school, worked with Vincent, and his father Gin Soon, and several of their senior students. The tapes are not the best representation of what is taught there.

Gin Soon has a fairly deep understanding of energy and rooting. He also practices li kong jin AS A MEANS OF UNDERSTANDING ENERGY, NOT AS A FIGHTING SKILL. It is recognized as a co-operative effort and Gin Soon only practices it with certain students. (I personally don't buy into it.)

I do not believe that Vincent's skills are near his father's, nor have I ever been moved in a manner as demonstrated on the tapes by either the father or the son.

In my opinion, posting those tapes on the internet was a bad idea.

For context only, I have seen and felt other neijia people with skill, including Luo De Xiu, Wang Hai Jun, Chen Zhen Lei (demonstration only, never actual contact with CZL) and B.K. Frantzis. The first person who ever hit me with fa jin, spurring my interest in neijia, also contributed to this thread, Buddy Tripp.

I offer these comments as someone who has trained at the school and knows the players, make your own judgments.

[homer]

I have been sitting back and watching these posts about the Gin Soon school. Many people seem very angry about what was put on the schools website. I have seen people write :

"I have to listen to the ridicule of being a IMA player and I don't much appreciate it"

The IMA is about relaxation and confidence, if people are so worried about how other people's practice affects their own I begin to wonder if they are practicning the IMA's. My teacher always say's "be strong on the inside and soft on the outside." Why do you have to doubt your own practice? If you say you don't, then why the distress over these clips. people seem so soft on the inside and agressive on the outside... a good discussion is fine but appreciate the ridicule, it gives you something to yeild to.

[Fu-Pow]

That is some goofy stuff. Totally faked.

My understanding is that when you see someone get "bounced" out in Tai Ji it usually when the Taiji Exponent uses an An-Ji type motion which kind of freezes the opponents Ming Men point and pushes them out and upward.

This just looks like the white guy is leaning on the asian guy and then when the Asian guy pushes him he uses his own power to jump back.

Quite simply. If I ever encountered this asian guy I'd simply uses some CLF "Gwa, Sau, Chaap" and smash him into the ground while he tried to figure out why his mysterious bouncing power wasn't working.

On a real Taiji exponent I'd don't think it would be quite as easy.

[BAI HE]

"The IMA is about relaxation and confidence, if people are so worried about how other people's practice affects their own I begin to wonder if they are practicning the IMA's."

Too relaxed sometimes? I worry about nothing and I work extremely hard.


"My teacher always say's "be strong on the inside and soft on the outside." Why do you have to doubt your own practice?"

I don't.


"If you say you don't, then why the distress over these clips. people seem so soft on the inside and agressive on the outside... a good discussion is fine but appreciate the ridicule, it gives you something to yeild to."

Make a friend of ridicule? Sorry, I guess I'm not that "soft" yet. I have respect for my arts and practice them Martial.


"report this post"

To whom? The Federal bureau of "Chi" enforcement.

[homer]

report what post, I never reported a post?

otherwise... hahaha, my turn to yeild:D

[BAI HE]

It was at the end of the post. I think it's
automatic. Please don't report me , I can't do
another bid in detention.

[jun_erh]

Walter- if you know Vincent Chu you should ask him what's up. I'm sure you both have better things to do, but I respect them alot and it would be a shame for someone to do a search or something and come up with alot of posts like this. Just a thought