Krav Maga

[frosh2786]

anyone take this? im interested could you please givem e some info

[Budokan]

It appears to be a hard and dirty, no nonsense style that cherrypicks techniques from a variety of styles. (Yes, Rolls, even wrestling. Now your nuds are hard, I know. Go relieve yourself into your pillowcase.)

From what I've heard it's brutal and efficient; a true kill-or-be-killed program. I'm hoping a seminar comes my way sometime, I'd like to check it out. If I'm not mistaken it has rapidly become the vanguard of all the "reality-stressed" styles, but the cost to train even for a weekend is exhorbitant. But, to each his own.

K. Mark Hoover

[Shiro Tora]

From what i understand, it is a style designed to take down your attacker, or target in a matter of seconds, it is the style tought to the Israel Special Forces, i think this is a website for it.. www.kravmaga.com (http://www.kravmaga.com) but it may be wrong... i know someone that someone she knows is trying to get certified to teach it.. lots of paperwork and stuff i guess.. heh

[Daedalus]

Any of you guys ever train in Krav Maga?

I hear that it can be pretty brutal as a means of self-defense.

[JerryLove]

Right on cue.

[samurai]

Anyone train in Krav Maga?
What is the art like and can you give us some of the defining priniciples of the art?
Thanks

The Swordless Samurai

[JerryLove]

Do a search for it, this topic comes up every couple months.

[JerryLove]

I stand corrected, it comes up every couple months but has not been delt with in a while.

Firstly, you have already made conclusions (I presume) having posted this in "reality fighting" rather than "other arts".

Krav is a recently created style intended for millitary and police training. It's relatively simple to perform, and easy to learn. It is built around the precept of a strong, prepared individual (soldier / police) and quick response (one imagines to stall while going for a weapon or getting a friend).

It has not show (AFAIK) any real look at advanced work, nor that it adapts particularly well to women, children, old people etc. It also runs into trouble against highly trained opponents (you won't see it in NHB anytime soon).

For what it was designed for, it seems like a good solid system.

Let the flaming begin.

[Water Dragon]

I think I may have learned a little this weekend. If so, it's good stuff.

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[Grappling-Insanity]

From what I've seen good in Israel, bad in North America.

[fmann]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From what I've seen good in Israel, bad in North America. [/quote]

Yeah, from what I've seen at some schools in NYC, it's too technique based rather than "free-flowing." e.g., the classes were "if this happens, do this."

I don't know if that kind of training would be able to deal with the uncertainties of a real fight. I'm not questioning the system, but just what I saw at this school.

[Kristoffer]

its cool over here, dunno how good it is where your at

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

[JerryLove]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yeah, from what I've seen at some schools in NYC, it's too technique based rather than "free-flowing." e.g., the classes were "if this happens, do this." [/quote]

Look at millitary or police training sometime. That is how much of it is geared.

http://www.clearsilat.com

[Zhin]

Has anyone else seen this?

I ran across an infomercial about it saturday.

Is the Mossad really so hard up for cash that they feel the need to compete for Billy Blanks' empire?

[EARTH DRAGON]

my ex kung fu brother gave up teaching 8 step to teach krav maga! I say the video and thought why? israelli fighting taticts and learning how to take a gun from someone? not really impressed at all. As for cardio aspect Im sure its good for a workout and to get the blood pumping but so is aerobics.....

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[KC Elbows]

I'm looking for a really good cardio schuai chiao school. I've got a few pounds to lose, and I'd like to lose them while being thrown onto my spine.

Barring that, I will settle for cardio dim mak. :D

[Budokan]

Cardio iron-testicles is really where it's at. :)

K. Mark Hoover

[KC Elbows]

:D Finally!! Away to hide those unsightly testicle pounds!

I'm ordering the video right now!!

[Budokan]

Yes, mine are much too large and have unsightly cellulite. I figure this program is perfect for me, then Rolls will be able to get both of them in his mouth at the same time....

K. Mark Hoover

[chen zhen]

What I know about this is that it is an Israeli special forces combat system, that seems pretty rough. does anyone know anything else about it?

[shaolinboxer]

You can get certified to teach it in two weeks.

[Budokan]

It's a no nonsense and brutal MA that's pretty effective. If it wasn't the Israeli Army wouldn't be using it.

[yenhoi]

Israeli modern martial art.

"No-nonsense."

www.KravMaga.com

thoughts?

[yenhoi]

There is a Krav Maga 'training center' here in town, it appears to offer full-contact sparring, they call them fight nights.

If this is true, then it would be the only place in my area to offer such greatness.

[C. Martin]

They have GREAT principles of engagement. I've seen some videos, all look good. They appear to be a no nonsense group that focus on what it takes to survive the confrontation. No pomp and circumstance involved. This may be a turn off to those who train for more spiritual reasons, but they offer a banquet of solid training principles and methods to those who are seeking such.

Two thumbs way up! (like my opinion matters)

[Black Jack]

Take it,

From what I have heard is that the Krav Maga you see now is nothing like the task-oriented military unarmed combat system which was taught to the Israel Defence Force by its founder Imi Lichtenfeld in WWII.

Total different animals now, the one of the past would be the one that I would take, but don't overide what they have to offer now, as it will put any mall karate or mckwoon to shame, it still has a lot of good stuff to offer, practical and viable self defense skills.

Lichtenfeld who was born in 1910 in Czechoslovakia, his father being a circus acrobat and wrestler. Lichentfeld inherited his fathers passion for combat sports and he took up wrestling and boxing with real competitive success. With the spread of fascism preceding WWII Lichtenfeld found himself engaged in the realities of street brawling, which in turn led him to understand the nature of actual combat over competitive combat, this knowledge went with him to Israel when he emigrated there and joined the Haganah, the precursor to the IDF, and was put to task instructing a mixed bag of new recruits in unarmed combat methods.

His goal being to quickly give an individual solider a practical body of fighting skills in a compact and realistic period of time, very similar to what Fairbairn and Sykes had to accomplish in England.

[GinSueDog]

yenhoi,
I don't know if this is true as I have never been to a Krav Maga school, but I heard from several sources that Krav Maga schools do not spar. They do various drills and step sparring, but not free sparring. Check it out, I could be wrong.-ED

[yenhoi]

The local 'training center' has a 'fight night'. Im going to check it out for sure - I fi can finally find a place local that does anysort of lower level, full contact or similar, i will be there.

www.renotkd.com - the Krav Maga Center here is at a TKD school!

hah.

[yenhoi]

Also, Im going to goto a local aikido school - I took a aikido 'special topic' class at the University, but Im not going for aikido, Im going to get thrown around.

There are no 'hardcore' training places around here since the Straight Blast Gym went out of town, and suddenly I have alot more time then I expected to have this 'semester' so I can do some ad hoc searching.

Thanks again.

[fa_jing]

Actually from what I heard a few years ago, sparring is very much emphasized. They use boxing gloves.
-FJ

[Kristoffer]

I also heard that no free sparring is allowed,, at least not `til your a advanced or something like that.. But that is a good thing I think. If it's for fullcontact that is.

Go train it, u may learn something new right?

[LEGEND]

I was taught some KRAV MAGRA from a NAVY SEAL that went to our location...you DIDN'T SPAR...it's based on updated one step two step training. How to counter a right cross by using multiple strikes or counter a takedown with multiple strikes etc...

[premier]

I think krav maga is good for what it was designed for - to learn self defense fast. But it's not something I would want to learn as a primary style. Looks more like bad wing chun to me.

[Kristoffer]

it's cool,, some good training in there

[yenhoi]

Finally got over to the Krav maga Training Center.

Wow.

I droped in on a "Level 2/3 Class" and it was great. They did warm up, some kinda partner drill where you slap each others face, and then worked on striking pads all night - punching, palm, kicking, elbows, and knees. Then they did pushups, and some pushups, and then some pushups, and finished the night by skipping rope for 15 minutes (1hr and 1half class).

Of course 1 class is not enough to fly with, so Ill drop in thursday night to check out "Fight Night": anyone who is enrolled can throw on gloves and go at it. They dont like Level 1 people getting involved, and Im sure there are rules, but from talking with the students its very close to what Im looking for. This is the first place in town that I have found that does any sort of "real" sparring.

[ewallace]

I went to a KM seminar this past weekend. People do not lie when they talk about the intensity of their first KM workout. It is definetly a no B.S. system. For you few San Antonio people on the board the classes start next Monday.

[Highlander]

Have you concidered joining the UNR Boxing team? They have a first class program and yes they do have female boxers.

[yenhoi]

Wow, Im in Dayton at least once a week. Come to Reno or Carson often?

UNR boxing team is great, i sparr with a couple members on occasion, one who is also learning BJJ here so he is lots of fun. Never considered joining, however.

[Justa Man]

great avatar man. fistfull of metal. didn't like the album too much, but that's one hell of an avatar!

[ewallace]

Thanks. Yeah that album was pretty bad. The cover is outstanding though!

[GinSueDog]

fa_jing,

From what I heard and this is from a Krav Maga forum. You do not spar until after phrase II in most Krav maga schools.-ED

[yenhoi]

Krav Maga Forum?
Where?

[ewallace]

Here you go:
http://www.kravmaga.com/forum/bigtalker.cgi

[Highlander]

Originally posted by yenhoi
Wow, Im in Dayton at least once a week. Come to Reno or Carson often?

UNR boxing team is great, i sparr with a couple members on occasion, one who is also learning BJJ here so he is lots of fun. Never considered joining, however.

Yes, I work in Carson and do Wing Chun in Reno on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

I used to train with the Freed brothers, Dave and Steve from the Boxing team back in the 80's. I'm also a friend of Ryan Simpson. He used to be my neighbor when he was young. We went and watched him box at the Eldorado a couple of years ago when he won the National Championship.

Just between you and me. A lot of the UNR Boxing Alumni have gone on to become very successful and influential and they really support the boxing team, Scholarships, Career help, Open doors, if you know what I mean.

[yenhoi]

I sent you an email Highlander: where in reno and with who? Wing Chun with Dave Manchino (sp?) perhaps?

I ask because I have been somewhat at a loss looking for wing chun locally. Maybe your training at Yansen?

Thanks.

[Highlander]

I will answer your E-mail when I get home, I'm at work now, but the school is off Kings Row.

[GinSueDog]

Here is the forum I sometimes check out.-ED

http://www.kravmaga.com/forum/forum.cgi?forum=1

[TaoBoy]

Created by Imi Lichtenfeld. No nonsense, fighting art. Taught to Israeli Special Forces. No forms training. Has a reputation as being very effective.

More info at the Krav Maga Association official website (http://www.kravmaga.com).

[ewallace]

I went to the KM orientation seminar here when it first came to town. It was a hell of a workout. My black shirt had white salt all over it from sweating so much. It was definitely a different experience. They DO teach people how to FIGHT, and get them up to speed very quickly. They will do weird things to simulate the adreneline you might feel in a reality situation. Somthing like having you walk into a dark room not knowing if anyone is in there, or how many may be in there. Then someone will come up and apply a rear choke or somthing.

As far as the instructors, they go thru accelerated training, but it is also for almost the entire day. The training they get is the equivalent of a year or two. Also, they are only authorized to teach to certain levels. They have to go back for more training to teach the higher levels of the system. Not just anyone can become a teacher either. The KM organization is a very good one too. No political BS. I would train in it but it was too expensive for me right now. I would recommend it to anyone.

[chen zhen]

I heard it was created by a guy named Ibd Sde-Or...

[ewallace]

http://www.kravmaga.com

Check out the forum. They will answer any question you may have if it hasn't been answered already. John Wittman is the moderator as well as the head of KM in N. America. He is a very nice guy. You won't get flamed for asking something that has been asked 50 times either.

[TaoBoy]

Chen Zhen,

Imi Lichtenfeld and Imi Sde-Or are the same person.
Sde-or is the Hebrew for Lichtenfeld which means "light field".
Imi began using the Hebrew translation is the 80s (I think).

[TaoTao]

"Street fighting and martial arts are totally different things. Krav Maga is only martial art that works on street." - a pearl of wisdom from my friend whos only experience with MA is beginners course in sport TKD.

So what do you think? Should we all quit what we are doing and join nearest Krav Maga dojo? :confused:

[apoweyn]

i trust that's a rhetorical question. :)

[Martial Joe]

Its funny when people actually fall for things like that.

[lkfmdc]

Most of the "krav maga" done in the US is crap, pure and simple. Brilliant marketing but doesn't hold up to scrutiny. My favorite example is the gun defense where you grab the barrel of the pistol and punch the guy in the jaw with your closed fist....

Martial arts as practiced in most schools today IS significantly differnet than real world survival or "combative" skill as the recent turn of phrase calls it, but Krav Maga as done in the US isn't it either, it's right up there with the other "secret military systems" flooding the market now

want real "combatives"? Go to amazone.com and buy "Get Tough" or "Kill or Be Killed" ie anything by Fairbairn or Applegate

[Former castleva]

"Street fighting and martial arts are totally different things. "
He is absolutely right,he is a genius.

"Krava maga is only martial art that works on the street".
That is utter nonsense,he is a fool.

;)

I agree with above,but just can´t agree with below.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Kill or Be Killed in PDF format. Adobe Acroreader (http://nand.net/~dschin/Applegate.1280.pdf)

additional sources. (http://nand.net/~dschin/kill_or_get_killed.html)

A good friend in my class has been teaching me this form of combat. Check out his website @

Combat (http://www.ghca.org )

[DragonzRage]

I have no experience with krav maga, but to my understanding its a complete real world self defense system. No emphasis on art or sport, just self defense techniques developed by the Israeli military to be used in a life or death situation. Assuming that the techniques are practical (the Israelis KNOW what they are talking about when it comes to combat), then such an approach would be essential if your aim in studying MA is to learn good self defense. However, technical knowledge is useless without physical capability and conditioning to actually use it, and from what I've seen Krav Maga as taught in the U.S. rarely involves conditioning or sparring.

[teazer]

From what I've heard, KM 'teachers' in the USA buy the distribution rights to an area. Take a two week course in California & they're all set to go.
You're meant to be able to learn it quickly, but teaching in a couple of weeks - that's impressive!!

[ShaolinTiger00]

I have 4 Israeli men in my judo club (medical students) all under 30. I guess they think judo is good stuff ;) I asked them about Krav Maga and they just laughed. I didn't probe further.

[ewallace]

from what I've seen Krav Maga as taught in the U.S. rarely involves conditioning or sparring.
I went to a K/M seminar a few months ago and it was a terrific workout. They broke out the pads and had everyone there throwing knees, elbows, punches and kicks within minutes. They do really **** with you mentally. Some methods I've heard of include walking you into a pitch black room (or maybe it was blindfolded). Sometimes there will be no one in there and nothing happens. Other times any number of classmates or instructors will attempt to choke you from behind or start shouting in your face. The reason behind this is to simulate the adrenaline and fear of a real confrontation as realistically as possible.

This is probably not the best place to ask that question since many folks around here pretty much write-off anything that is not chinese. However, most of us have not seen the more advanced training they do that goes beyond what J-Lo will show in a movie or a magazine interview, myself included.

[Kempo Guy]

ewallace,

I've been to the KM HQ and you're right it's a great workout.

However, imho it's not so different from JKD (at least PFS style training). My biggest gripe is that KM seems to be technique oriented, which is not too different from the Kempo I've done in the past. I personally question this type of training, but to each their own... :rolleyes:

These days my JKD instructor is leaning more towards the SBG way of training (although not affiliated), which to me is very efficient and it's a great workout to boot.

Flame away,
KG

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
I've been to the KM HQ and you're right it's a great workout.

However, imho it's not so different from JKD (at least PFS style training)....

These days my JKD instructor is leaning more towards the SBG way of training ....


Aaah, guys what is PFS and what is SBG?




...And be prepared for this thread to get moved to 'other related arts' without a trace anytime soon. Judging by the speed all non-CMA threads disappeared yesterday I don't give this thread much time here in this section. Looks like Wen's rant found some sympathetic ears. :p

[ewallace]

PFS standards for Progressive Fighting Systems. Basically JKD Concepts.

SBG - I'm not sure. It's proabably obvious though.

Like I said I haven't seen enough to draw a conclusion one way or another.

[Kempo Guy]

Sorry,

I should have made myself clear.
PFS - as ewallace states is equal to JKD Concepts - Progressive Fighting systems (Paul Vunak). Here's a link to his website. (http://www.fighting.net)

SBG - Straight Blast Gym (Matt Thornton). I guess they also fall into the JKD concepts umbrella. You can find out more about them here. (http://www.straightblastgym.com)

KG

[lkfmdc]

fundamental problem with most "martial arts" approaches, probably Chinese the MOST is that they are "technique driven", ie they expect you to spend time to develop techniques which require fine motor motion and attention to details,

for 99% of the current martial arts population, they will never be able to pull off stuff like that in a high stress, adrenaline rush environment

[SevenStar]

I agree with that, but I don't think that being technique driven is the problem. the problems would probably be:

1. drilling techs that are very complicated and take too much time
2. not drilling the same techs on a regular basis
3. drilling them, but not on a fully resistant opponent

you could train in a manner that is not technique driven and have the same problem in the street if you aren't trained properly. If you train muay thai and don't drill knees on a regular basis, you won't fight with them EVER, because you haven't been programmed to use them.

My judo teacher (I've heard it elsewhere too) says that the worst you do in practice is probably the best you'll do in the street. You want to strive for perfection by drilling hard, sparring, etc. so that your worst is still **** good.

[Kempo Guy]

SevenStar,

I agree with what you are saying. When I say 'technique driven', what I meant was learning a response 'x' to a threat 'y'. This was how I was trained in Kempo for years.

I have nothing against drills, I think it would be impossible to learn martial arts without them. It comes down to how these drills are trained. If they are always prearranged then imho they would be of no use. They need to be done against progressively more resistance in a sparring environment.

I don't want to open up a can of worms here since this topic has been done to death already.

BTW, I think you're Judo coach is a wise man. :D

KG

[SevenStar]

agreed. That's the way I feel about drilling too. My judo coach is 75 :eek: he's had plenty of time to gain wisdom :) and as old as he is, he can easily toss me like a ragdoll at will

[Budokan]

Like many other martial arts in America krav maga has been watered down and neutered to appeal to a mass audience. If you want the real thing, go to Israel and join a kibbutz.

[Former castleva]

Just to clear possible misunderstanding I´ve heard lots of good stuff about it,mostly about their gun disarms,and maybe weapon disarms,because of simplicity and therefore practicality.
I don´t know a thing how they train in USA but even though conditioning is always important one´s physique should not be a very big concern generally,just my understanding though.

[lkfmdc]

three career military men who served in combat and were DI's all said the same thing regading the "Krav Maga" being taught here

it's weapons disarms are only good for one thing, getting you KILLED.....

[CD Lee]

Real self defense must include things that will not get you put in jail. Reality is that if a guy does a cross arm grab on me, I can instantly kick him in the sack, or strike him in the face hard, prabably breaking his nose, or taking out his front teeth. I mean, that is just not realistic for a lot of real self defence situations. Sure in a life or death yes, but if it is life or death, do you think a front cross arm grab will be the thing he does to me?

Any good solid self defense system should at least allow you to be able to control to some degree the amount of force you use.

I totally agree that trying to drill 'I do A if he does B, I do C if he does D, etc, etc' will get you very confused with the adreanal rush and surprise attack.

I looked at the Kill or Be Killed PDF, and it is awesome. However, you have to be careful with that type of stuff. You cannot just go ridge-handing a guy in the wind-pipe, or severly gouging his eyes. I think you have to careful what you mentally and physically 'drill' yourself to do.

[lkfmdc]

another thing the "martial arts" program in the US usually doesn't address, LEGAL ISSUES....

If I put my OPEN hands up in the air and announce "I don't want any trouble", you have established your personal zone. Now, it is every idiot's American civil liberties right to stand outside that zone and call you a *****, ***got, a hole etc and there isn't a thing you can do about it. BUT if they come within that zone you have the power to use reasonable force to defend yourself. If you knee somone down low in one motion and drop them it is "reasonable" at that point, if you continue to kick them in the head while they are on the ground it is not

[CD Lee]

Ahhh, there is really no telling whether it is reasonable or not. If there are witnesses, then they will report what they see. If you took a martial stance, and as the guy reaches for you, you drove a straight right fist into his mouth, shattering his teeth and breaking his jaw in two places, you will likely lose in court.

And, if you are trained, and you did get the first strike in, with your hips turning and arm rotation, you will certainly bust something up real bad on his face.

If on the other hand as you say, you throw your arms up in a defensive position and as he reaches for you, you block him off his center, and project him away and run, you hopefully get out of the situation and stay out of court.

Obviously there is a great differene between fighting and self defense. Sometimes, you have to turn it into a real fight, but we should be aware of the issues, and what is going on.

I assure you, if you hurt the person seriously or even a little, you will be in court, and subjectivity and perception will prevail. When they find you are a trained martial artist, well more issues will be considered and you look like the bad Kung Fu guy, right or wrong.

[Former castleva]

That "kill or be killed" book I downloaded was awesome as CD Lee said,good stuff.
It actually reminds me of Krav Maga.:)
Very down-to-earth&somewhat practical.

[Rolling Elbow]

"realism".... on what i have seen of Krav Maga, sure it is high intensity HOWEVER, they are actually missing the "realism" aspect when they punch someone in the head 6 times and expect their balance NOT to have shifted backwards and then proceed to take them down in an arm bar FORWARDS. No concept of real movement and body reaction, TOTAL emphasis on overwhelming someone with strikes. News flash! If you hit someone hard in the head, their head will MOVE. So yes, i am sure it is useful but if they hit a punching bag now and again, they might see allot of their strikes going to waste! ;)

[Rolling Elbow]

CD Lee..

good point, i usually don't engrain any neck techniques that involve snapping or breaking someone's neck. I see when i have them but don't even go through with the rotation or lift in the technique because it is not something i want engrained when i have adrenaline rushing through me like crazy. "kicked my car! now i'll break yer neck!"- not the way to go :)

I will say though, that when it comes to hitting, I wouldn't hit anyone with any less for "control"reasons. Anyone who lays a hand on you should be dealt with sufficiently so that you do not have to worry about continuously "controlling" them. Just don't stick around afterwards. You have to be an extremely high level practitioner NOT to hurt someone excessively in an altercation. Besides, the harder someone comes and the better you move, the more they end up hurting themselves. They begin running into your body weapons. Tough for them..

[CD Lee]

Rolling Elbow...

Yes I agree. The movement after a real strike is such a huge thing. You are absolutely right. I have seen videos on self defense (can't resist watching the different ideas) using in one case Karate. This one in particular sticks out in my mind. While the moves were overly aggressive, and very devastating, the series of three-four strikes in the technique seemed quite impossible if you acutally landed the first strike properly. It was obvious on this video that no account had been taken as to what would happen to a person if their face was struck violently.

Yes, the head would snap back, and the body would shift backwards. When the series of strikes would be preformed at speed for demonstration, they just looked very wrong. And that was what was wrong. It was not natural movement after the supposed strikes made contact. The person just stood there like a bag, and the karateka could land three more blows.

I don't think an untrained person could successfully land a three-four stike combination on an attacker anyways. I think a trained person is lucky to land a good two punch combination if they land the first blow in the series. And the only reason they might get the second one is because of distance control via FOOTWORK.

BTW, as far as ingraining, I have hesitated to ever ingrain the front of the throat as a striking target. While difficult to hit with a closed fist, it is three times easier, and very probable with a ridge hand or even open hand, uplifting blow.

[Yung Apprentice]

I've heard how this is some real good street self defense. But don't know to much about it.(I know this is similar to my Hapkido post)
Can anyone tell me more about it? Striking, or grappling or both?
Does it teach proper body mechanics for strong striking power?

[chen zhen]

It is an Israeli self-defence system used by police and counter-terrorism forces. From what I know it is mainly self-defence techniques like those taught on womens self-defence courses ( only more advanced, of course!), like standing joint-locks, throws and kneeing to the groin, kinda brutal, aggresive techniques.

[Yung Apprentice]

Is it useful in an actual fight? Has anyone on here ever taking Krav Maga?

[Yung Apprentice]

Is it effective? Has anyone trained in it? I was thinking about training in it, but would like to hear some of your opinions and thoughts on it. Here's the website to the school in my area. Please, feel free to tell me your honest opinion.

www.contactcombatsystems.com

[dnc101]

I've heard that it is effective, but that it is difficult to find a good school in the US. What little I've seen was dangerously inneffective. For example, trapping a knife hand/arm in the crook of your arm, or reaching straight down and grabbing his wrist. Both are good ways to get seriously cut. But if you need a quickly learned system I'd say give the school a chance. Just don't leave your brain in the dressing room while you decide if that school is effective.

[Mokujin]

Ignorance!

From what I've seen advertised, its supposed to take a newbie and transform'em to a human destroying machine. I also picked up a book and it showed a some high kicks, just above the waist. As a wing chun person myself, I shy away from that stuff unless your totally confident you won't get taken down after delivering a high kick.

Can you sit in on a class? If so, observe and go with your gut. I don't think there's any rule saying Krav Maga is free from the McDojo label. As I recall, Panther video has some demo footage on their site.

Good luck.

Peace!
Mokujin
:D

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by Mokujin
... As I recall, Panther video has some demo footage on their site...

Nah, Century Fitness took over Panther. If you type in panthervideo.com it'll take ya to there site and they dont have video clips there.

[Former castleva]

I think it has gained great reputation lately,as basic self-defence.
Having also been used by Israelian army.
I think their army´s famous motto sums it up pretty well,it goes;
K.I.S.S.=Keep it simple stupid?

"From what I've seen advertised, its supposed to take a newbie and transform'em to a human destroying machine. "
Mokujin is clever to point out that this is how he has seen it like.
But I think this claim also holds some water since their approach should be to enable you to find your way out of trouble in a practical&quick way in a minimum amount of time.

[chen zhen]

I have seen a book about the system, It's easy to find in martial arts stores I think. It's written by the systems founder, Imi Lichtenfeld. The basic techniques are shown in it.

[Kristoffer]

..........

[Kristoffer]

...Forget what I was suposed to say :mad:

[Kristoffer]

craaap

[Yung Apprentice]

LMAO!!! Your crazy!!!:D

[chen zhen]

PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER!!!
:D

[Machimurasan]

No, Krap Maggot!

[chen zhen]

No, Krap ***got
:p

[scannerb2]

Anybody ever tried this or know any reasons why I should/shouldn't give it a try?

[yenhoi]

You should try it just for the expierence and the opp. to touch other people's hands.

Most krav Maga schools train vs pads (as opposesd to hitting air all day long) and then spar. One of the KM schools in my area has an open fight night once a week. Most schools also touch on threat/enviornmental awareness - something that the majority of McDojo's dont even think about.

:eek:

[scannerb2]

Thax 4 the reply. So I guess it's not something u can learn from a couple books or videos. We should take classes like every other MA?

[Former castleva]

"Thax 4 the reply. So I guess it's not something u can learn from a couple books or videos. We should take classes like every other MA?"
I bet.

[David Jamieson]

I would suggest that you learn it from someone who learned it in the Israeli army, because that is where it is used most and is propogated most.

Or at least from a school that has a link to Imi himself. (creator and founder of the style)

It is essentially their h2h combat training.

cheers

[Black Jack]

110% agree with Kung Lek...did I just say that...Krav Maga in certain circles is like yuppy student kingdom and it bears no real visual connection with the real deal which Imi created.

Good Krav Maga from the WW2 era looks a somewhat like Fairbairns stuff. The simple cream floats to the top.

[phantom]

Check out the new issue of Black Belt for an article on another Israeli martial art called Hagannah. Not too common in the United States yet, but the main instructor in the U. S. is making efforts to make it become more widespread there. He also knows krav maga, but I do not know whether or not he teaches it.

[shaolin kungfu]

There's a krav maga(sp) class that's going to start at the gym I work out in. It's pretty cheap and might be kind of fun.

Anybody know anything about it? Should I bother?

[shaolin kungfu]

There's a krav maga(sp) class that's going to be starting at the gym i go to. It's pretty cheap.

Anybody know anything about the style? Is it worth taking?

[Shaolin-Do]

Sounds like some wierd eastern religion. Make sure it doesnt involve wearing goat fetuses.

:eek:



:confused:








;)

[MasterKiller]

I think Krav Maga was conceived as a fighting art for the Israeli Army. It's claim to fame is that you are supposed to be able to learn very quickly how to fight against knives, guns, and un-armed opponents.

J.Lo learned Krav Maga in the movie 'Enough,' but I wouldn't put much stock in that.

[shaolin kungfu]

J.Lo learned Krav Maga in the movie 'Enough,' but I wouldn't put much stock in that.

In the system, or that she learned it?

[Former castleva]

I thought most martial artists were already familiar with this hot hit art...

BTW SK,you´re burning my eyes!!!
This belongs to ORA!
And there was a Krav Maga discussion at ORA AlReAdy.

[Ford Prefect]

Kind of JKD'ish, but geared more towards pad work and jiu-jitsu like scenario's than actual sparring.

BTW, I took a few classes at a KM-certified place from the main school in LA and it was a joke.

[shaolin kungfu]

I know, but I actually wanted alot of people to answer this.

[shaolinboxer]

It is a civilian format of military disarming/disabling/escape techniques.

[Former castleva]

www.kravmaga.com
www.krav-maga.com

I´ll give it my thumbs up for lack of babble.
I´ve heard a lot of bad about US schools though.

[shaolin kungfu]

Thanks for the links. I think i'll take it just for kicks(no pun intended). It's not expensive at all, so even if it's bad it's not a big problem.:)

[red5angel]

It appears to be coming the flavor of the month. a couple of schools around here just started offering it and I have heard rumblings about it from various martial sources. I am sure it is designed to beat all other martial arts.

Seriously though, do some research into who ever is teaching it and see hwat sort of experience they have with it. Then check it out for yourself, learn some, go to bars and dark alleys and see if it allows you to kick ass or not.

[Former castleva]

Definitely go see what it´s about.
You might be in for a treat.

[Starchaser107]

Did any of you see the movie "Enough" with J-Lo , she was supposed to be doing Krav Maga.

[PHILBERT]

or just go to KravMaga.com or something like that and read up on it. It is the fighting style for the army that protects Israle or something like that (cant remember how the hell ya spell it). You know, those guys us Americans love and those people over there hate. Anyhoo its supposed to be there art, and people all over are jumping on the bandwagon. After all, if it's good enough for there special forces, its good enough for us, right?

Its like if the Navy S.E.A.L.s or Green Beret began teaching civilians hand to hand combat in martial arts schools, everyone would want to do it.

Chances are the stuff you'll learn in a Krav Maga school has little to no similarities of what they do. Again, why would a country that is constantly fighting and kicking the crap out of other countries (and getting themselves kicked too) want to say “Hey here is the OFFICIAL FIGHTING STYLE that we use! Learn it and use it against us!”

[Former castleva]

No.I do not really care for her and the subject appears pathetic to me.

[Starchaser107]

Lol,
ahm, yeah I totally understand.:D

hey SK tell us if you find any similarities between krav mag' and kungfu. ...Are you still doing kungfu?

[shaolin kungfu]

Yup.:cool: :)

I'll be sure to tell you what's similar, if anything, or if it's even any good.:)

[Ground Dragon]

From what I gather, there is some sort of contract the KM execs have put together with ATA tkd schools. A lot of tkd schools are now sporting their very own KM programs. Basically the guys there go out to LA or wherever for a certain period of time and become licensed KM instructors. There is an extremely bad tkd mcdojo here (one that proudly proclaims they are a 'black belt academy)where the two chief instructors became licensed in KM. Funny thing is, that is what they are marketing to the adults but they are still marketing the black belt, after school, learn discipline, get good grades bs to the kiddies and parents.
Check it out, but take a heavy does of cynicism with you.
Probably better off staying away and just taking a boxing class or something.

[taijiquan_student]

I remember that a while ago my teacher said he saw a book or video of Krav Maga, and that it showed some knife defences that would definitely get you cut up. He got out his knife and showed us how the defence he saw wouldn't work against someone who knew what they were doing. I don't remember the specifics, just thought I'd share that with you, FWIW. I think Krav Maga is usually advertised as a kind of "reality" fighting system.

[LEGEND]

"Kind of JKD'ish, but geared more towards pad work and jiu-jitsu like scenario's than actual sparring."

CORRECT!

[Marky]

Don't put a lot of faith in a martial art that claims to teach effective gun disarms. 'nuff said.

[Former castleva]

I´ve heard a lot of good about KM disarm techniques.
Probably the same goes,as for the art generally itself...simplicity.

[No_Know]

A system~ of self defense. Related to Israeli. Works endurance.

[Nichiren]

I heard only good things about KM. They teach you some principles on how to fight and give you a bunch of dirty tricks and of you go. They train these techniques very thouroughly (~boring?) and thats why they are able to use them under stress.

Like the old saying "Its better to have one sharp knife than 100 dull"...

If you have little time getting proficiant in fighting, choose KM!

/Cheers;

[HuangKaiVun]

From the VERY LIMITED stuff I've seen on Krav Maga, it has made me think of military style karate.

By that, I mean that they have some of the same techniques and mentality as karate but are much more violent about it.

I came away thinking that a lot of these moves would be fabulous if you were a soldier trying to take out an enemy soldier.

Whether or not these moves would be applicable to litigious US society, I don't know.

[Serpent]

So you're back, Huang!

Why not go on over to the Southern Forum and finish the conversation you repeatedly dodged? You know the one!

[Yung Apprentice]

So, how is it so far?

[Kempo Guy]

Krav is pretty cool. It's a great workout and they train hard. Seems to be pretty practical in terms of self-defense. It seems similar in many respects to Paul Vunak's JKD... i.e. the RAT system.

Although Krav seems to be more technique oriented. What I mean is there seemed to be a lot of Attack A, Response B type of stuff :confused: Of course that's just an impression I got from taking a few classes a couple of years ago.

KG

[apoweyn]

Does anyone know of a krav maga class in the DC metro area? Northern Virginia, ideally.

Thanks in advance.


Stuart B.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Fighter's Garage.

http://www.fightersgarage.com/

[apoweyn]

Aha!

Is this where MP's friend trains? (I can't remember his name at the moment. Know the cat I'm talking about?)

I'm thinking it looks a bit hardcore for my wife's friend, mind you. (I should have mentioned that bit in the first place, I suppose.) I think she's looking for a slightly more low key introduction to the whole thing.

On the other hand, maybe I'm not giving her enough credit. I'll definitely pass this along to her, regardless.

Cheers Bill.

[truewrestler]

well they dropped the BJJ program not too long ago so I'm sure it is extremely pussified

[SevenStar]

a krav maga camp recently opened in my city... found out tonight that one of the guys in bjj cross trains there. he said it's basically jun fan and muay thai, but geared towards self defense applications. Anyhoo, In the classes, they aren't sparring right now - only self defense, but on friday nights, they have a "fight club" where they will put on the pads and go at it. A couple of guys from muay thai and I may drop by to play with them some upcoming friday.

Oh yeah, I forgot - the first rule of fight club is...

[yenhoi]

One of the krav maga schools does that here on thursday nights. They basically box. No elbows, no clinch, and very little kicking. Never saw any grappling either.

:eek:

[ShaolinTiger00]

Krav Maga.. hmm how do I put this tactfully..

The Problem with KM is that there is/was a group of serious hardcore badasses. These guys are the real deal.

But then they saw $$signs$$ and realized they could make some serious bucks. (Anyone suprised that Israelis are good business men?)

They began to offer seminars and workshops, offering instructors certificates etc.. and soon you have Johnny McKarate slapping a poster in his mini-mall window "Official Krav Maga Training Center" and what you're really learning is his traditional art with some KM techniques thrown in (as well as any other jkd, kali, bjj, techniques he saw in a magazine)

My advice. - When looking for KM instruction.. do your homework about the qualifications. It's your money and time, make sure you're getting what you deserve.

I personally have a love / hate relationship with many arts that teach weapon disarms and "self defense" techniques. But I realize that I'm already biased towards WWII combatives. For my tiny brain Simple is better.

btw: I'll take this moment to plug an aquaintence since we're on the topic. http://www.halohcombatives.com/

[SevenStar]

I completely agree. This place charges 100/month... as compared to the 75 I pay for bjj, thai and judo combined! we're not being charged for showing up on fridays though, as far as I know.

[PHILBERT]

Go lay down a challenge.

Nah, but really, go have fun. You'll learn something. I myself would love to see Krav Maga, see what it is all about, in a fighting situation. I know a school that teaches Krav Maga, but as ST00 put it, it's a Johnny McKarate center.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
But then they saw $$signs$$ and realized they could make some serious bucks. (Anyone suprised that Israelis are good business men?) Hmmm......

[old jong]

Everytimes I read about Krav Maga,I think about the old Defendo (http://www.defendo.ca/) or...
Combato!... (http://www.ju-jitsu.ca/combato/Combato.htm) (Have fun with this one!...);)

[SevenStar]

didn't the combato guy do really well in some competitions?

[old jong]

Originally posted by SevenStar
didn't the combato guy do really well in some competitions?

There was a very big competition called WWII...Maybe some of them did well!...;)

[MasterKiller]

Systema makes Combato fall down without ever touching it.

[ShaolinTiger00]

OJ, do you know much about this style? I can;t help but notice the almost outright copy of Fairbairn's "Defendu"

[ShaolinTiger00]

lol @ "systema" crack! there is certainly some controversy in that system..

[red5angel]

I'm with ST00 on this. The Krav Maga "clubs" locally just suck ass. That movie with Jennifer Lopez didn't help either since now everyone things KM is the answer to their self defense needs.

[old jong]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
OJ, do you know much about this style? I can;t help but notice the almost outright copy of Fairbairn's "Defendu"

I really don't know witch one was the "original" Looks like politics where in vogue even during those times in the "combat judo" many variants or combatives manuals. (official or not!...);)

[ShaolinTiger00]

True. I just finished a good book on this subject "The close-combat files of Col. Rex Applegate" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873649982/103-6102517-8363863?v=glance#product-details and in it he talks about his opinions of other's combat styles (like Biddel and Sykes) which I thought was very interesting.

[PHILBERT]

There is an Aikido school less than 1/8 a mile from my home that teaches Systema. I've seen it before, and I've never seen anyone do the "fall down without being hit" at there school.

[rogue]

Today in the US the main purpose of KM is to generate extra money for martial arts schools. Same for CDT, FIST, and just about anything else where a person gets certified in a week and then starts teaching seminars in his school.

These add-on or value added courses are quite the business in the martial arts world. Buyer beware, there are some bad systems and there are some good ones with bad instructors.

[HopGar]

I'm no expert in K'rav Maga, although I learned for a half year from a reserve soldier in Israel (actually, everyone in Israel is a reserve soldier - don't **** them off.)

From what I remember, they're quite ruthless and once they start attacking they don't stop until you're down and out. I vaguely remember something about being a synthesis of wrestling, judo, jujitsu and some other martial art - either wing chun or karate or maybe it was both. Regardless, the real deal are not people you really want to mess with in a dark alleyway.

I do remember a particular emphasis on training against weapons and with weapons. The most basic K'rav Maga is basically learning to use an m-16 like a short staff or baseball bat.

Red5 - The reason why that is, is that the guys who really know what they are doing are ranking officers in IDF and usually are combat instructors/ drill seargants.

more to come later

Peace

[HopGar]

I forgot
go ahead and check it out. If nothing else, it will just be plain fun.

Peace

[red5angel]

Today in the US the main purpose of KM is to generate extra money for martial arts schools. Same for CDT, FIST, and just about anything else where a person gets certified in a week and then starts teaching seminars in his school.

That's exactly what happen at the school here in minneapolis. The guy is notoroious for taking the quick route to get a nice banner on his school advertising he teaches it.

[stubbs]

I've only read a brief history on it and read about the concepts and training. I've only seen one vid of a three man demo.

Anyone know anything about it or had first hand experience with it?

[Ray Pina]

I knew a guy about 2 years ago who trained in it .... his technique seamed regular, nothing special. Regular striking, short elbows and knees.

[IronFist]

I went to a Krav Maga school for an intro lesson and I wasn't impressed. The style was different, but it was not "alive" or realistic enough for me.

And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches. :eek:

Not for me.

I'm sure there are good KM schools out there somewhere.

[chaiwai]

I seen people train. Basically all goes, with emphasis on soft targets. "You kick targets ass, and the target doesn't hit back"

[stubbs]

Did any of you guys get to have a go at their weapons training? Or improvised weapons training?


"And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches. "

Really? I thought they'd be tight and close up - crazy monkey type style. Although, maybe they practice reaching out to block incoming punches because of their knife training etc. I know you've had some experience with the Straight Blast gym training - how do they adapt to knife attacks?

[IronFist]

Did any of you guys get to have a go at their weapons training? Or improvised weapons training?


"And they corrected me for *not* reaching out to block incoming punches. "

Really? I thought they'd be tight and close up - crazy monkey type style. Although, maybe they practice reaching out to block incoming punches because of their knife training etc. I know you've had some experience with the Straight Blast gym training - how do they adapt to knife attacks?

Not sure, man. I only took one introductory class.

But yeah, we were doing a "warmup drill" where you'd square off with someone and take turn lobbings circular punches (not jabs or crosses) at each other's heads. I was blocking with Crazy Monkey style, and the told me "no, extend your hand to block the punch, like this," and basically reached out for it.

Then, we were all in a line (think the bad guy school in the Karate Kid movie) and the teacher would call off like "1, 2" and everyone would punch in the line all at once with like a jab and a cross. The "stance" was facing forward, like boxing or Muay Thai (so not standing sideways to your opponent like in karate), but I had my hands up by my head (crazy monkey or boxing style) and he said "no, put your hands further away, this isn't boxing," and he corrected me so that my lead hand was maybe 18" from my chest and my rear hand was maybe 6" away from my chest. The punches were with vertical fists, like Wing Chun or Isshin-ryu.

Keep in mind my opinions. What I described above was an accurate portrayal of what I remember happening in the class, but remember that I am biased in favor of SBGi and crazy monkey techniques and "aliveness" training. In the KM class I took, all the "drills" we did (except the warmup one above) were choreographed, and even in the warmup drill I knew what was going to come at me, I just didn't know exactly when. There was no element of realism at all. I know I was in a beginners class, but still. He said they don't teach grappling or ground fighting because that's "not realistic in a real life situation." It may not be, but I sure as fvck want to know how to handle myself on the ground in case the fight ends up there. We spent like 20 minutes throwing "knee to the chest" drills while our "opponent" sat there and held a huge air shield. I thought that was kind of dumb, and here's why: Even someone who's untrained can throw a knee hard enough to do serious damage. You don't need to practice it for 20 minutes of a class. You're not going to make your knee-throwing neural pathways so much more efficient in that time. I can understand a few knee throwing drills, but that 20 minutes could have been spent doing something better, like, fighting against a resisting opponent. We weren't even taught how to get into the position (hands around the neck type of clinch kinda thing). It was like "if you find yourself here, throw a knee. Now we're going to practice throwing knees for 20 minutes." Boring.

Now that I think about it, I was all excited BEFORE the class because I saw them in the phone book and called them and he said they did MMA and BJJ and stuff, and I should bring a cup and my MMA gloves to class. I was all "hell yeah" and I think I even made a thread about it here. Then I got seriously disappointed when I got there and the instructor told me "we don't spar here" or some sh.it like that. I was like "Um, on the phone he told me to bring this stuff..." and the teacher was all "uh yeah I dunno." It felt very McDojoish, actually. The teacher was a bit overweight, didn't train with the students, and liked to talk about how deadly his s.hit was. I asked him if they taught grappling and he said "no, I'm not gonna armbar someone in the street. I'm gonna rip their arm off and beat them with it" or some s.hit like that. Look, I've been around skilled MMA fighers. Most of them are very humble, and a few of them are ego-filled ass.holes, but the instructors in the KM class I tried had that air of "respect what I say cuz I'll qiblast you if you don't cuz I'm so deadly" McDojo vibe going on. They were very polite to me, but I'm not sure if they could actually fight.

One thing I did like about the class was that they had us wear street clothes if we wanted, because chances are that is what you will be wearing if you get into a fight. But other than that, I wouldn't recommend the class I took to anyone, even a newbie.

Edit - I just searched for the thread I made about the class I took, but I couldn't find it. Sorry.

Edit 2 - Is there anything unique about KM in general? Or is it just the new fad because we haven't had an art from Israel yet? I know it claims to be "efficient and deadly, etc." but really, what art doesn't? That stuff cracks me up. No one says "try our martial art: it's slow, inefficient, and weak." A quick search at urbandictionary.com reveals that Krav Maga is too deadly to be used in competition (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=krav+maga). Yawn.

[MasterKiller]

I can understand a few knee throwing drills, but that 20 minutes could have been spent doing something better, like, fighting against a resisting opponent. We weren't even taught how to get into the position (hands around the neck type of clinch kinda thing). It was like "if you find yourself here, throw a knee. Now we're going to practice throwing knees for 20 minutes." Boring. 20 minutes is nothing. One 2-hour MMA class was nothing but bicycle sweeps. A sweeps B. Then B sweeps A. Over and over.

If you want to learn something and make it automatic, that's how you train it at first. You move into using it in a more flowing drill later, and then eventually sparring. But not on your first day.

[IronFist]

^ I understand that. But understand that this drill was done in the most ineffective way ever.

[GreenCloudCLF]

I have 2 years Krav Training...nothing in it I haven't seen in Kung-Fu.

The reason I take it its because the class is taught non-stop, so it's a good workout. Plus we drill the basics over and over again, which is always good.

As for the hand being extended away rfom the body, there is solid reasoning behin it. They train with the belief that everyone has a weapon, so ou must extend to keep from being stabbed, bashed etc...

Good training...but it is all in Kung-Fu...

[Ronin22]

I had a years worth of Krav Maga and have to agree with Green Clouds thoughts. It is a pretty good work out and does drill in the basics of striking and ground work. I think it would be a good compliment to something like JJ. For me, I left because it lacked any spiritual depth. I came up in a pretty traditional school so I guess I couldn't get use to it.

[stubbs]

I had a years worth of Krav Maga and have to agree with Green Clouds thoughts. It is a pretty good work out and does drill in the basics of striking and ground work. I think it would be a good compliment to something like JJ. For me, I left because it lacked any spiritual depth. I came up in a pretty traditional school so I guess I couldn't get use to it.

Thats partly why I'm interested in it. I don't want any spiritual depth and I'm not interested in the traditional side either (at the moment any way). If I want that I'll look for it elsewhere - at the moment I want basics and pure self defence. Seems like it might be worth me having a go.

[Ronin22]

Thats partly why I'm interested in it. I don't want any spiritual depth and I'm not interested in the traditional side either (at the moment any way). If I want that I'll look for it elsewhere - at the moment I want basics and pure self defence. Seems like it might be worth me having a go.


Yeah I think pretty much the consensus on questions like this is just to go and try it for yourself to see if you like it. Good luck and be well.

[CaptinPickAxe]

A reaching block sounds like a great way to get your arm tooled....Especially against a trained fighter who's familiar with baiting.

just an observation...

[IronFist]

A reaching block sounds like a great way to get your arm tooled....Especially against a trained fighter who's familiar with baiting.

just an observation...

One of the reasons I never went back :D

[HopGar]

I trained with IDF Soldiers when I was in Israel for about 4-5 months. These guys are tough as nails. But, like what Green Cloud said, it's all in Kung Fu. And a good percent of the guys I trained with had experience in other martial arts - southern mantis, muay thai, to name a couple. But then again, I was training with soldiers recieving the non-watered version.

peace

[KFNOOB]

I see on a website (Greencloud) that they teach Krav Maga. I know its fairly common for ATA places to have Krav classes but is this also Chinese arts?

How can I find out if they are certfied under Krav Maga Worldwide (without asking them)?

Anyone know?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I beleive that the school in Merrick is.

It is easy to get a school certified though. I believe it's a weekend or possibly a 5 day course if I'm not mistakened. The instructor must attend this and I think I remember hearing that the one in Merrick did.

Since the certification process is actually quite short, do your due diligence and check out any school that is certified. Certification is not like a gracie BJJ black belt. There will most likely be good KM guys and not so good ones too.

Just call the Krav Maga headquarters in Cali or check thier website for liscenced schools.

Good Luck.

[lkfmdc]

http://www.kravmaga.com/

Contact them and ask about krav maga... they even have a list of real krav maga schools in the US

[rogue]

The question I have is why Krav Maga?

[KFNOOB]

Not sure I can answer that. Why not?

Are you saying something may be better? How can you quantify that?

The place Green Cloud teaches Choy Lay Fut but has Krav Maga. Is it better to take Choy Lay Fut there?

[Mook Jong]

Look at it this way, of his three schools, Krav Maga is only offered at one of Sifu Gus's locations. He is definitely more into his CLF than krav maga. I'm at the wading river location and the classes aren't offered there and he really doesn't mention them. I'm sure the program is great but it definitely takes a back seat to the kung fu

[rogue]

Not sure I can answer that. Why not?

Are you saying something may be better? How can you quantify that?

The place Green Cloud teaches Choy Lay Fut but has Krav Maga. Is it better to take Choy Lay Fut there?

What I meant to ask was what are you hoping to get out of it?

The other question is what is missing from the instructor's main art in regards to technique, application or teaching method that they feel the need to offer something like KM? I'd hope it wasn't just another marketing scheme to separate a student from more of their money.:rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Which one on the schools teach Greek Pankration? Or do all of them?

[KFNOOB]

I never went with Rafael but I'll take the bait anyway....my friend was going to his classes. Thats how thw whole Lama-CLF-Chan Tai San stuff started as we looked into the art.

Now...back to Krav Maga. A lot of ATA schools put Krav in to of course generate more business, but I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe those of you more dedicated to your art find it troublesome.

I am guessing (only guessing) that a school would seek to implement Krav Maga to appeal to the adult crowd looking for fitness with whats perceived to be an effective self defense system without uniforms or belts etc. Thats what appeals to me. Im pretty cetain the average age of a Krav Maga student is a lot older tham most other MA.

[CLFLPstudent]

I am guessing (only guessing) that a school would seek to implement Krav Maga to appeal to the adult crowd looking for fitness with whats perceived to be an effective self defense system without uniforms or belts etc. Thats what appeals to me. Im pretty cetain the average age of a Krav Maga student is a lot older tham most other MA.

Then the only way to find out about it would be to go and try it out, instead of posting in a way ( to use your word) to bait people into another flame war.
Try it out. It's either good, or it's not. Then come her and relay your experience.

-David

[KFNOOB]

My question was not about it being good. It was about certifications. I am training in KM now and I like it so I would be able to tell if the class is good but Im unsure about certifications since Im told in KM this is pretty important due to commercialization.

If youre looking for what you call a "flame war" look elsewhere. Im asking about Krav Maga in TCMA places which I have only seen in TKD places until now.

Is this something thats being bantered about in the CMA world?

[Mook Jong]

Call up the school and ask, stop in for a trial class. I'm sure that they would be more than happy to let you try out one of the classes.

[lkfmdc]

Call up the school and ask


but then he wouldn't have an excuse to make a thread on this forum! :rolleyes:

[KFNOOB]

I just called. I'll take a trial. Krav Maga is something they just started doing again so Im sure its a bit on the fly but thats OK. Unlike my other place, they will have mixed level classes Im sure because they dont have that many students. Other place had seperate classes for each level but you need students and instructors.

Schedule might be better also so we'll see.

Oh yea...they are KMWW certified...and maybe I'll pick up some CLF ... something I've been talking about for 100 years.

[Mook Jong]

Like i said before, i'm sure the class is great, but the school's main focus is CLF

[KFNOOB]

Thats OK, a lot of KM people have that. Just the way KM has been set up here in the US. It's not like we have KM instructors that have been in KM since they were 10. Most are from other arts and fairly recently got into Krav.

Thanks for the help and insight.

[masherdong]

Yes, I have been promoted this past weekend. I am now officially a Certified IKMF Krav Maga Instructor!! I am one of two in the Houston area! WOOHOO!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Did you have to get circumsized?

[Chief_Suicide]

Congratulations.

Teaching is an honor. Hope you enjoy it.

[uki]

Did you have to get circumsized?you mean... did he have to circumsize himself?? :D

[masherdong]

What the heck?!

[uki]

What the heck?!so did you use a butter-knife or a scapel?

[Skip J.]

so did you use a butter-knife or a scapel?
Well.... not to take anything away from my friend uki..........

But... we drive by the Krav Maga studio on SW FRWY every Saturday morning and see all the guys in there working out early...

If you're coming in from Katy, that's a long way to go to class....

And... congrats on your certification!

Instructing is the only way to fly....

[masherdong]

so did you use a butter-knife or a scapel?

OH! No, we didnt use either....we used a steak knife that had a point. Yes, several people got cut, including one person that had to go and get stitches.

Skip,

That is Krav Maga Worldwide that is off of SW Frwy. I am part of the IKMF and we are in Katy. Soon to be in Sugar Land and Bellaire!

[uki]

OH! No, we didnt use either....we used a steak knife that had a point. Yes, several people got cut, including one person that had to go and get stitches.who is we?? i was under the impression the questions were for you...

[Skip J.]

Skip,

That is Krav Maga Worldwide that is off of SW Frwy. I am part of the IKMF and we are in Katy. Soon to be in Sugar Land and Bellaire!
Let me know when'n where your coming to Sugar Land; I wanna see!

I do believe there are more martial arts schools in Sugar Land per sq mile than anywhere else in Houston. But there's always room for one more!

[uki]

I do believe there are more martial arts schools in Sugar Land per sq mile than anywhere else in Houston. But there's always room for one more!they say you won't find jesus in church...

[Skip J.]

they say you won't find jesus in church...
Hey uki, you must be reading my mind.... again... Yes, we do have more churches in Sugar Land than anywhere else in Houston too....

Altho, having the Lopez'es all win Olympic medals kinda ups the MA interest here some!

Still, as far as taiji goes, there are MA studios teaching taiji, and rec/senior center taiji programs, and of course the largest group is the Chinese residents of Sugar Land. Naturally, these are practice in the park kinda folks..... no MA studio for them... so between rec/senior center and parks folks, about 90% of the taiji students here are not in MA studios.

On the other hand most all of the tae kwan do and kung fu students here are in the many MA studios.

[masherdong]

who is we?? i was under the impression the questions were for you...


My instructor's training class.

[masherdong]

Let me know when'n where your coming to Sugar Land; I wanna see!

I do believe there are more martial arts schools in Sugar Land per sq mile than anywhere else in Houston. But there's always room for one more!

We will be inside Embody Fitness. That is located on Dulles and Lexington. We should be starting up at the end of the month. So, come on down!

Sure there are many MA studios, but, we are the only krav maga school that has permission to teach here in the Houston area under the International Krav Maga Federation (IKMF) headed by Eyal Yanilov. My colleague Larry Escher will be running that location.

[Skip J.]

We will be inside Embody Fitness. That is located on Dulles and Lexington. We should be starting up at the end of the month. So, come on down!

Sure there are many MA studios, but, we are the only krav maga school that has permission to teach here in the Houston area under the International Krav Maga Federation (IKMF) headed by Eyal Yanilov. My colleague Larry Escher will be running that location.
Thanks MD, I only live a few miles from there. I'll drop in on him in the near future when he has a chance to get it going. Oh yes, it will be the only KM school in Sugar Land.

[masherdong]

Skip, check your inbox.

[Skip J.]

gotcha.....

[monkeyfoot]

Greetings people

Londons sporting a massive heatwave now, so its kinda that time everyone heads to the parks with some beats and a bag full of booze, as did I yesterday. Anyhow I'd been sitting dehydrating in the sun all day, casually drinking and murdering packets of pretzels when the subject of Kung Fu arose. I demoed a bit of mantis and chatted about the concept of high/low theory.

Some hungarian tank came over and started chatting about his training in Krav Maga and then started bouncing about like he was wanting to spar with the guy I was chatting to. I figured i'd have to step up even though I was half cut.

This guy was super defensive and just held his guard up, and then occassionally rushed me for a clinch/knee. I tried getting in close using some WingChun/Mantis hybrid and ended up getting grappled and overpowered by his size, so I changed my tactics and starting attacking him long/medium range. This dude weighed like 95kg and I am only 70kg, so trying to uproot the SOB was more difficult than I'd imagined. I managed to get a good leg hook on him but spent so much power moving his legs that I was too off balance to follow up. So I stayed back, but aggressive, firing off side kicks to his torso. I stamped the front of his knees a few times (so what, he should have minded his own frickin business) so he wasn't moving as great, and also skimmed his face with a hurricane kick.

Then, so frustratingly, he caught a side kick to his waist, and let me hop a couple of times. I was trying to gain my balance so that I could jump and smash him in the face with my other foot, but then he let go with the sorta manner of "looks like I've won". SOB lol.

This made me reevaluate everything. WingChun, the system apparently designed for little vs large people didn't work as well as I thought (mind its not my main style) and I ended up getting bear hugged lol. My mantis held up okay, but I was mainly kicking or drilling in a horse stance to his ribs. He wasn't throwing enough punches to catch. Its a bit frustrating as I had a crowd of like 12 people...and I really wanted to deck this SOB.

So, what would you have done. What tactics would you have employed to get the upper hand. I'm 70kg and hes 95kg. Hes very defensive and likes to grab/knee. He doesn't kick at all and punches weren't thrown that often. Hes also a stocky mofo and im a light build.

Please discuss.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You need to work on your stance more, more rooting and maybe some qigong.
:D

[TaichiMantis]

Methinks your evade skills were dulled by booze, not to mention dehydration gassed you out quickly...probably all your reaction skills were dulled...your kicks should come back faster than you throw them out...and here's a hint--smaller guys don't fare well using power against power on big guys...you need to redirect his to your advantage (once again, some mantis and tai chi throws come to mind)...but at least the booze should have made you relaxed enough on any falls:D


My mantis held up okay, but I was mainly kicking or drilling in a horse stance to his ribs. hmmm...doesn't sound like any mantis I've done :rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

ou lou tsai can be used as an attack if you set it up by firing a strike at him, like a jab. When he brings his hand up to block, you can then triple pick and come in, throw a barrage and takedown.
I prefer zoning to the outside and then sweeping his rear leg. It's as if you dissapeared and WHAM! down he goes, and he doesn't know where it came from.

[monkeyfoot]

Ha yes maybe a little but I wasn't wasted and felt like I was functioning normally. To successfully (well almost) land a hurricane kick to the dudes face shows my awareness wasn't too off.

Guiness aside....how would you play this?

[monkeyfoot]

Ten Tigers - I did try that with some success. He was holding his right guard hand out too far at one point, so I Ou Lou and then came across with a right hand swinging motion whilst the right foot sweeped from behind....but, his leg didnt move lol

[TaichiMantis]

Check out the little guy at about 28,30 seconds in on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQO36g0eHeM&feature=related)

[solo1]

at "murdering packets of pretzels" i started laughing too hard. what did you say?

[MasterKiller]

Pic of the 'fight'.

http://dailypicdump.com/data/images/2010/05/24/abb259.jpg

[Sardinkahnikov]

Pic of the 'fight'.

http://dailypicdump.com/data/images/2010/05/24/abb259.jpg

Dunno if that's a fight, but that guy sure is a warrior.

[David Jamieson]

big booty b*s WAH!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctVmNbVu2KA

[monkeyfoot]

at "murdering packets of pretzels" i started laughing too hard. what did you say?

HA sorry thats my english slang starting to come through... "very enthusiastically eating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretzel

TaiChi Mantis - thanks for the vid, those take downs were pretty awesome. Mr Tunks fighters are very good. I will work more on my rooting, and then invite this dude for a 2nd round.

[wiz cool c]

sounds like you did a good job.

[PlumDragon]

Hi Monkeyfoot,

I feel the last thing you need to spend time working on is your rooting or some "techniques". You need to focus on developing your reactionary skills under pressure. The root and dynamic balance will come naturally.

One of the biggest problems I see with many martial artists is the age old question, "What technique should I use for some given scenario?". Fights are situational and they will never go down in just the same way. You shouldnt have to "think" about what you would do given a certain situation, its better to have a specific reaction installed. So what to use against a bigger guy? Who knows; when he moves, your reaction should be able to take over and you just do it--if this doesnt take place, then your reaction needs work...

[Shaolin]

I would have walked away. In my opinion I don't fight unless it's sanctioned and I get paid. It sounds like you allowed your ego to get the best of you.

[ManilaCrane]

Big guys? hmmmm, I say punch his biceps multiple times .

[bawang]

WingChun
lol ok dcfffffdf

[Sardinkahnikov]

Big guys? hmmmm, I say punch his biceps multiple times .

8:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIayqMhNPBo
Hey, if it works against mean british boxing champions...

[goju]

i would have walked away. In my opinion i don't fight unless it's sanctioned and i get paid. .

exactly
:d:d:d

[Lucas]

i used to fight with my really large friend all the time he generally did the same thing to me, eventually i got sick of it and told him 'hey if you are going to just rush me and try to bear hug me then fall on me, im going to start trying to kick your knees out so you cant even walk.'

it was friendly of course, and he soon understood that i was basically tellin ghim that what i would need to do, being the smaller man, to avoid / stop his aggresive use of his size, i cant do without seriously trying to hurt him.

lifes not fair

[monkeyfoot]

lol ok dcfffffdf

"Lol ok" what?

Shaolin - Whats it matter even if a slight ego got hold of me. It wasn't ego at all anyways. I'd prefer to spar and test my Kung Fu against a different style than arm chair kung fu my whole life. Why do you think Kung Fu gets such a bad name... because lots of people hide behind the 'my techniques are too dangerous''.... Test your skills, thats the only way we improve.

Plum Dragon - Thanks for the advice. You see I'm not training in class anymore as my sifu stopped teaching, so I don't get a chance to spar that much. I'm not sure what other ways I can train reactions...

Lucas - I did the same thing and ended up kicking the guys knees. Not enough to damage, but I temporarily hindered his movement :)

[iron_leg_dave]

Cross-train judo, then absorb it in to your san shou. Judo is a very practical way for a smaller guy to get a bigger guy to at least taste pavement/sand.

If it were a real fight, you would have hit him in the eyes/throat/temple/ear slaps/center of nose/testicles/center of knee cap/shin/sternal notch and back of the head and speed/clear mindedness/hand-eye coordination, not size, would have been important.

[PlumDragon]

Plum Dragon - Thanks for the advice. You see I'm not training in class anymore as my sifu stopped teaching, so I don't get a chance to spar that much. I'm not sure what other ways I can train reactions...Monkeyfoot:
I can sympathize with your dilemma; unfortunately, trying to get better at martial arts without an individual to apply pressure to you is about akin to trying to get better at catching a long-range football pass without having someone who can throw it to you. The crossover from single man drills like forms and stance work and such to skill in fighting is very close to zero.

Coincidentally, there are people in the UK that can help you. If you want help finding something that can help you gain skill, tell me where you are in the UK and give me an email address and Ill see what I can do...



If it were a real fight, you would have hit him in the eyes/throat/temple/ear slaps/center of nose/testicles/center of knee cap/shin/sternal notch and back of the head and speed/clear mindedness/hand-eye coordination, not size, would have been important.And what, exactly, if the bigger guy also had these goals in mind and could execute movement with speed/clear mindedness, etc? These sorts of things are not the answer to winning a fight if you are smaller. Actual skill is more important. the ability to react properly and execute your "technique" real-time, under stress.

[monkeyfoot]

PD - Thanks for the feedback, its appreciated. I'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and join a school here in London, even though none of them are mantis :(

Here is another thread I posted regarding schools...
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57242

I am kinda leaning towards Shaolin UK. Although at first I thought mainly doing San Shou would suck, I'm actually thinking it might be a great way to build my body as well as train reactions etc, and then I can just start ripping apart my mantis forms in my own time....

Still not entirely sure...

[Hardwork108]

PD - Thanks for the feedback, its appreciated. I'm thinking i'll just bite the bullet and join a school here in London, even though none of them are mantis :(

Here is another thread I posted regarding schools...
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57242

I am kinda leaning towards Shaolin UK. Although at first I thought mainly doing San Shou would suck, I'm actually thinking it might be a great way to build my body as well as train reactions etc, and then I can just start ripping apart my mantis forms in my own time....

Still not entirely sure...

Monkeyfoot,what branch of Mantis have you practiced?

[monkeyfoot]

Hardwork - I trained Qixing (HK LKW lineage) for around 4 or 5 years. I played with a bit of wing chun in that time too.

What ya thinking? You know of anyone in London?

[Hardwork108]

Hardwork - I trained Qixing (HK LKW lineage) for around 4 or 5 years. I played with a bit of wing chun in that time too.

What ya thinking? You know of anyone in London?

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the quality of Northern Mantis in London. As for Wing Chun, there seem to be more schools in London than Mc Donalds restaurants, but I doubt that most of them are any good. However, the Samuel Kwok and Victor Kan schools, together with the Lee Shing lineage schools may bear fruit depending on the Wing Chun you have studied before.

Would you consider a style other than Northern Mantis or Wing Chun?

By the way, what part of London are you at?

[monkeyfoot]

I'm living in Stepney Green atm, but will be moving to columbia road (bethnal green) in 2 weeks time.

Yes theres lots of WingChun. I'd ideally like a style to compliment my mantis, something that when I'm sparring I can throw in my own mantis techniques. So WingChun is probably not an option as I reckon i'd get grilled if I start going against all their 'theories' lol.

these two look ok. Still not sure really.

http://www.shaolintempleuk.org/

www.tanglong.co.uk (though this seems somewhat wushu'ish...)

[Hardwork108]

I'm living in Stepney Green atm, but will be moving to columbia road (bethnal green) in 2 weeks time.

Yes theres lots of WingChun. I'd ideally like a style to compliment my mantis, something that when I'm sparring I can throw in my own mantis techniques. So WingChun is probably not an option as I reckon i'd get grilled if I start going against all their 'theories' lol.

these two look ok. Still not sure really.

I think the best way to find out is to try some classes and see how you feel. It seems that you are into a lot of sparring training, if so, then I guess that the Shaolin Temple UK would have that of training in its curriculum as part of their Sanda methodology. By the way, I had a look at their site and they seem to be offering Northern Mantis workshops which should be of interest to you.

On the other hand the Tang Long school has Bajiquan classes. Baji tuition is rare so it may be worth a try as well, because if the teaching is good then studying Bajiquan will enhance your kung fu arsenal.

If you try these schools and are not happy with them then Private Message me here and I may be able to help you in your quest with other suggestions of genuine kung fu but perhaps without a lot of sparring emphasis in their training.:)

[Kansuke]

If you try these schools and are not happy with them then Private Message me here and I may be able to help you in your quest with other suggestions of genuine kung fu but perhaps without a lot of sparring emphasis in their training.:)


Ooooh, maybe your 'secret' kungfu, ****forbrains?

[Hardwork108]

Ooooh, maybe your 'secret' kungfu, ****forbrains?

Dave Ross, stop being a sore loser and don't troll this thread. Take you comments to an MMA thread where they are used to people like you.

Thanks in advance.

[monkeyfoot]

Ooooh, maybe your 'secret' kungfu, ****forbrains?

.....:rolleyes:

Hardwork - Thanks for all the info. I am glad there are still some decent members on this forum who aren't just trolling all the time.

Ideally I'd like a class that teaches forms, rips them apart for real life application, and then also gets some sparring in as well.

So are you U.K based? If so where about? Any other classes in London you'd reccommend?

Thanks again

[KungFubar]

What do you guys think of Krav Maga for self defense?

[Kymus]

Krav Maga is bullsh!t (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmXGzgq0ls&noredirect=1)

[KungFubar]

Krav Maga is bullsh!t (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmXGzgq0ls&noredirect=1)

so is ninjutsu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryArHjjACBc

and MMA is bull**** too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syYsxVUQeV4

[mawali]

the Zen of all MA! It's all bullshat!

As Mr Bawang's stated
like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.

[MightyB]

What do you guys think of Krav Maga for self defense?

if you're learning it in the Israeli military it's excellent, if you're learning it at the local Zumba fitness facility it's utter cr@p.

[Kellen Bassette]

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/archer-footface.gif

If it's good enough for him.....

[Lucas]

if you're learning it in the Israeli military it's excellent, if you're learning it at the local Zumba fitness facility it's utter cr@p.

point, game, and match.

[goju]

if you're learning it in the Israeli military it's excellent, if you're learning it at the local Zumba fitness facility it's utter cr@p.

I dont even know if i would agree there. Anyone see the fight quest episode on Krav they went to the israeli military and they were showing them a load of crap

look AT 13:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T610Sc1HONo

watch how they all dogpile the host when he runs the course but when the instructor does it they attack her one by one with slowed down soft haymaykers she deflects with her flailing kenpo hands.

Put this instructor in a gi in a stripmall and people would be calling it bullshido immediately

[wenshu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAPAP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzDaORagR2Y

[sanjuro_ronin]

I dont even know if i would agree there. Anyone see the fight quest episode on Krav they went to the israeli military and they were showing them a load of crap

look AT 13:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T610Sc1HONo

watch how they all dogpile the host when he runs the course but when the instructor does it they attack her one by one with slowed down soft haymaykers she deflects with her flailing kenpo hands.

Put this instructor in a gi in a stripmall and people would be calling it bullshido immediately

There is BS in almost EVERY MA nowadays.
Just a fact of life it seems.

[MightyB]

There is BS in almost EVERY MA nowadays.
Just a fact of life it seems.

Not Ameri-do-Te

[Kymus]

Not Ameri-do-Te

Cut Sanjuro some slack. He said almost :p

[MightyB]

this is pretty good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3xayIEKGf0

[MightyB]

Here's an excellently choreographed Krav Maga demo. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ignz0VLLwA)

It's very cool.