How would you use grappling when fighting several opponents?

[Not a Dancer]

Just want your opinions, since I've heard bjj was actually tested on the streets of brazil.

ALso, a good grappler against a good striker- 1v1. Which one would you bet on?

[DelicateSound]

Isn't this a KUNG-FU Forum?!! :D

Would you grapple in a street fight?!!!
I've did 2 years of Judo and little Jujitsu. Personally on the street I'd just use my Lau-Gar.
I'd punch to the head, kick to the ribs/knees/stomach and if possible get a straight arm-bar or wrist lock.
I'd never strangle a guy: he'd just get fired up.
As for multiple attackers - RUN - simple as that.
No-one could fight more than one-on-one.

As for the striker Vs grappler - you need to be more specific. How hard can the striker kick? Is the grappler a BJJ man (i.e. He can block) or more of a Judo guy (s**t blocking skills)? Does the striker study a more comprehensive art like JKD that includes groundwork? How heavy are they? How tall?

Let's say they are both 6'0 and 200 pounds - then it depends on range. If the striker can stay at range he'll probably smash his opponants knees/head/ribs before he can get into grappling range. If the grappler can get into range without getting his face mashed in he'll probably get the striker to the ground with a takedown and strangle/armlock him. As for throws I've never seen a "clean" throw on the street so I don't know how lethal it'd be to be honest. :eek:

Insert intellectual quote here:

[JerryLove]

Kung-fu grappling? I'd use it to manipulate relative body positions... manipulate on person into anoter's way.

[Not a Dancer]

Yes I do the wing chun system. Yes this is a kung fu forum but why is it wrong to talk about other styles? There's nothing wrong with grappling. I don't have to be much more specific because size doesn't really matter.

i'm sure striking is not superior over grappling if it is a one on one fight. You can fight multiple people on the streets... it's been done before. I've also seen some very nicely executed throws before...

just because you've never seen or experienced something doesn't mean it hasn't existed.

[DelicateSound]

"Why is it wrong to talk about other styles"
Um, didn't the smiley face thing tell you I was joking! :confused:

As for size, weight and power, I think they are very important. e.g. If you were to fight Jackie Chan, one punch in the face from him would propbably leave you bruised and dazed. Take a full on punch in the face from Tyson and you'll be lucky if you're still breathing.

And I never said there was ANYTHING wrong with grappling. Would I have studied 2 years of Judo if I thought there was?!

As for multiple opponants, I'm not really qualified to be a good judge. But I live in a rough area, and the only "gang fights" I've seen have degenerated into fast, vicious brawls, where theres little time to get off a square punch never mind block, grab and throw.

On the other hand, if "Mr Joe Average" squares up to you, he expects a smack in the face, not a well timed ippon-seio-inage.

As for the well timed throws, when did I say they didn't exist? I saw them in the dojo for two years. I caught the business end of most of them!

Insert intellectual quote here:

[ElPietro]

I wouldn't use any grappling in a multiple opponent fight...take-downs which would leave me on my feet yes...but getting tangled with your opponent as you grapple leaves you wide open to the other attackers...going to the ground is even worse...quick strikes, and keeping your distance or keeping opponents in the way of each other as shields is the way to succeed.

[JerryLove]

"I wouldn't use any grappling in a multiple opponent fight."

I can't wait to hear how you plan to avoid it.

"Take-downs which would leave me on my feet yes."

That's grappling. (You know physical manipulation of limbs).

"going to the ground is even worse"

Yes, going to the ground against more than one person is inviting a stomping.

"quick strikes,"

As opposed to slow ones?

"and keeping your distance"

If you have any distance, RUN!!.

"or keeping opponents in the way of each other as shields is the way to succeed."

And quite impossible without grappling.

[JerryLove]

I'll preempt the slw transition into general multiple-attacker strategy and just repost my opinion from the archive...

"First choice would of course be to "run" but that deserves a better answer (e.g. how to become able to run), so I'll give both.

Obviously what you want to avoid is people behind you. You also want to stay upright. There is a "jumping" class at my school specifically intended to get you to the outside of a group that has your surrounded by going through one of the opponents. It's trained to let you get through even the people who would normally be powerful enough to stop your charge. There is also a tactic for going for the largest opening to try to get outside. The real rule is don't stand still ;-)

Once you've got some sort of tennable position (haveing manuverd or punched outside of the circle) the fighting begins. You usually want to fight the most aggressive opponent. One good reason for this is he will be the closest. You need to keep moving. You need to not let them get behind you. I find that baiting attacks is useful. If someone gets in real close, beat them around and use them as a shield against the others. If they manage to make a good-effort escape or someone gets past them, let go and move to the next guy. Try not to get too tangled up in any one person.

If there is no way to manuver to escape, then you should look at relatively quick methods of removing opponents from the fight during this manuvering. What that is will vary based on available weapons and your skills / tactics. Mechanicl disables (busting knee caps), rendering unconsious or dead, and virtual disables (blinding) are all effective."

[marcelino31]

the comment about a punch to the face by jackie chan....only leaving u bruised is perhaps true....but why punch the face when you can strike to the throat...even a child can kill a person with a slight blow to the throat...

[Martial Joe]

Grappling on the street:I would take them down and pound them...how is that?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Laine Nakachi]

How would you use grappling when fighting several opponents ?

Just want your opinions,since I've heard Bjj was actually tested on the streets of brazil.

Also, a good grappler against a good striker 1 vs 1 .

Which one would you bet on ?

< Not a dancer ,
In a street fight ,grappling is good enough for 1 person.

But against multiple opponents,you need those hand to hand combat art like kung fu ,kempo or kajukenbo.

Grappler against a striker,it all depends on how they come into contact with eachother.

As soon as the grappler would go for the legs of the striker.
What the striker needs to do is to either step to the side or take control of the situation , by stepping back and taking control of the situation.

If the striker has strong stance,then the striker has an advantage over the grappler.
Other than,if they both end up on the ground,it'll depend on who takes control of the situation first.

But bear in mind that if the striker has a good shot and a powerful one,he in turn can knock the grappler out.

If the grappler has a submission hold on the striker,then the striker will be in trouble.

In these situation it all depends on both striker and grappler.
And this is just my input to your topic.

Take Care,


Fe luk

[SanSoo Student]

I would hit the guy in some vital areas, like solar plexus or throat, then grapple him so he can't resist.

[Mojo]

Against multiple opponents the only grappling I would do would be throws.
You don't want to go to the ground with an opponent when his friends are around to kick you in the head.

[Tario]

As most have said as well.
On a multiple attackers situations...I wouldn't want to be on teh ground going for locks and bars when his friends would stand over my head kicking etc. It's exhausting grappling with one opponent...I would definitely prefer defence and attacks standing up and working from there.

"..the more you sweat, the more you know yourself...."

[Budokan]

I wouldn't use it because I love my two boys and I'd like to live and be able to see 'em again. 'Nuff said.

K. Mark Hoover

[Cyborg]

I think you're wrong about a striker needing a "good base" to fight off a grappler. What he's going to need is mobility. It takes distance to hit hard. The thing to do is put your forearm on their shoulder as they come in and sidestep using your free hand to cause damage. Using either leg at this point will lose your mobility and let him get to close. If all you're worried about is your strong base... well, now you're
grappling. :)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[Pika]

Against multiple attackers, the ground is the last place to take the fight, unfortuneately, the choice is rarely your own.

Grappler v Striker, as already suggested, it would depend on the combatants, in a one on one situation the grappler has the advantage, but there are always exceptions.

[honorisc]

Any one point can be argued against as it takes a combination of things to win~. There's likely not a mere formula in general that can be applied to the exclusion of the variable factors.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[apoweyn]

Pika just stated my big concern. I doubt you'll get to say whether you go to the ground. Especially with multiple opponents. My footwork is good. But it ain't THAT good.

[umgong]

Please define grappling?
Originally, I started with jiujitsu...we learned stand up chokes, wrist locks, wrist throws,arm bars, joint manipulation...these all led to throws.
Go to ground? On sacrifice throws, we always went to ground....as a follow up to "finish off" our opponent, then immediately came up our feet or fight from the ground for a counterattack to the next opponent.
Multiple opponents? We practiced against three to five opponents often with the guys really going at it. We were old school...gravel or ground mats, no tatami. (Early 60's)

As I learned sillum gung fu, and other styles that used grappling arts, I learned that you tried not to stay on the ground long against multiple opponents, except when you had to.

For example, my family moved a lot, I spent maybe a year in junior high school, the next year somewhere else, the next year in a high school(another city), the next year in another totally different high school, etc.. So each school, I was challenged by the school bullies.
One time, after running away a lot, I was cornered by 6 guys who was going to take my lunch money, plus "kick my a$$."
Short story long...kidding. I "strangle" one guy to unconsciousness, broke another guys arm (arm bar), and when they closed in on me, I grabbed the biggest guy, pulled him down on top of me with a front cross open strangle, knocking him out...his unconscious body took majority of kicks aimed at me. When they thought I had had enough...I rolled him off of me and ran away.
I had a couple of arm bruises and one or two kicks on the side of my head that rang my bell, but the big guy wouldn't fight with me again...he was seriously bruised up and his own guys wouldn't admit that they had kicked the heck out of him.
Never had trouble with those guys agia.

[freestyle_judo]

"As soon as the grappler would go for the legs of the striker."

Double-leg/ single-leg takedowns aren't the only moves a grappler can do. Grappling can be used against multiple attackers. But not ground-fighting, obviously, you need quick, powerful throws. And once you have just one left, go for a strangle till he's out. Drop people on their heads, and fight f***ing dirty. Knees/kicks to the groin. Anything.

-Nick-

-Freestyle Judo-
"Kicking your arse the gentle way."

[Merryprankster]

Man, not this topic again.

Put another bullet in the horse's skull. I know there are 20 or 30 in there already, but I think he twitched. :)

[snappingknee]

If anyone there thinks they can actually take one two people at once, they must be really high on dope. The best strategy is to run away before you get your a** kicked. That's the simple truth, sure maybe if two 13 year olds tried to jack me for my Halloween candy I might hang around, otherwise use the most powerful weapon you have---Your brain ;)

[umgong]

Snapping knee...

Been there too many times, know many others who have been there too...most were successful at defending themselves...some were not.

Either one saying whatever we say does not change the events or the facts.

Believe what you will, hope that your legs will be lent wings when you need them...Alas, I am too old and too heavy, thus I must fight....running is not an option.

[PaleDragon]

going to the ground in a multiple attacker altercation is commonly agreed to be the last thing you wanna do...but if, like some of you have said, you dont have a choice; how do you handle it from there? obviously its better to know some ground work than not, so you may be able to take advantage and then get back to your feet but, do groundfighters train for that?

[SwaiingDragon]

Shuai Chiao...

it's a throwing art - but it's taught to police officers- to handle multiple assilants quickly...

i agree with most- run from multiple attackers-

[JerryLove]

"i agree with most- run from multiple attackers-"

I'll one up this. Run from any confrontation you can run from, multiple or not.

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