Lower Basin for Stranger

[count]

Alright, I was just giving some of these other bagua experts a chance to weigh in. I see you deleted your post, but I thought it was worthwhile to discuss.

First of all, and I think we have discussed this in the past, my take on lower basin is a little different than some others. I do agree with most that lower basin training gives you the ability to be more mobile at a lower height level. But I think the point of lower basin training is to strengthen your ability to use the leg and lower part of your body to use in combination with the hand and upper part. So to say that going down to the ground is a "failure of the lower basin" would not be accurate.

Traditionally in bagua, you do not want to fight from the ground. But going to the ground is an individual preference for each fighter. Personally, I like to take an opponent down to tie them up and finish a fight, if I can. It's bagua's intrinsic spiraling ability that makes it easier to bring someone to the ground or reverse their take downs.

As far as training to fall and get up, we use the same kind of methods we use in our Shuai Chiao. It's a curling up, rolling and spinning back upright. The only difference between shuai chiao and bagua when it comes to throwing and rolling is the way the body moves and maybe the set-ups. Shuai Chiao is not a ground fighting method either. It's about throwing someone so hard they don't get up or don't continue. It's clearly preferable to finish standing up.

Well, I'll be interested to hear some of the other bagua experts on the forum talk about their experiences with lower basin training and with groundfighting.

Peace!

[jon]

Well, I'll be interested to hear some of the other bagua experts on the forum talk about their experiences with lower basin training and with groundfighting.
* Sure as heck no expert and im also fairly sure i wont offer anything new so ill just give a personal perspective.


Re Lower Basin training.

For me this is a testing ground, i use to test my relaxation and my posture. If i can do something comfortably at one hight and feel like i have a decent grasp on the mechanics of the movement and where my structure is meant to be the whole way though then i begin to try and take it lower and lower. This is a way for me to test just how much of the postural transition is using my own strength and how much of it relys on propar mechanics.
If i can do the posture low and not feel like my muscles are burning up and my back is about to give way or im about to fall on my ass then i know im doing something right.
I can also imagine that as one improves in skill one might like to play lower basin more and more simply becouse it's a more challenging workout.


Re Groundfighting
* Ive seen a little bit in Bagua but like nearly all bagua its a case of applying the principals to a live situtation and addapting on the fly. I personaly began to train groundfighting with friends and tried to pick up bits and pieces where i could to a level where now im quite comfortable on the ground. Its also the last place i would deliberately take a fight. I train for the ground purely so i will know how to hit it and get back to my feet without being caught out due to a lack of basic knowledge.

I like basic postional control and this allows me to try and get the upper hand on the ground to a postion where i can either get an easy submission or more preferably get back to my feet. I dont tend to go in for trying to keep my opponent on the floor, my aim is quite definately get control so i can have better options.


PS i dont think i saw the original post so i hope this is not way off topic.

[Stranger]

In the spirit of Halloween, this thread has risen from the dead. :eek:

count,
I though it might have been perceived as a flame, and therefore deleted it, but the questions were offered in the sincere desire to understand more about bagua, an art I respect based on my limited contact with it.

jon,
You were not off topic at all. I appreciate any information on the topic.


Knowing that bagua is not about hanging on the ground, I assume there are ways of applying the techniques in that environment as bagua is a complete art and meant for combat. Shooter has talked about tai chi applide on the ground, and I thought that blacktaoist and Matt Irvin have mentioned something along the lines of bagua tactics on the ground.

Thanks guys for taking the time.