View Full Version : Question for the Grapplers
Cheese Dog
10-12-2003, 10:13 PM
How do you escape from an opponent that has gotten a good, tight mount on you and is lying on your face and basically smothering you? I ask because one of the guys I roll with does this to me most of the time that we go. If he were my size it wouldn't be a problem but he weighs about 100 lbs. more than I and is very strong. (He can bench 3, squat 4, and deadlift 5.)
Our skill level is about the same, but he knows if he is having any problems with me, he can go to his old standby move and submit me.
So, do any of you guys have any usefull suggestions? I'm open to some new ideas here!
Many Thanks,
Cheese Dog
Serpent
10-12-2003, 10:15 PM
Biting?
Shaolin-Do
10-12-2003, 10:17 PM
Fish hook. Definately fish hook.
Serpent
10-12-2003, 10:29 PM
Is it obvious that the non-grapplers are answering this thread?
Serpent
10-12-2003, 10:30 PM
BTW, there's also the eye gouge. Never underestimate the eye gouge. That's why UFC rules prevent it, becase it's so devastatingly effective.
Shaolin-Do
10-12-2003, 10:30 PM
;)
Or try to trap his arm and leg to one side, put weight on that shoulder. Try and trap him up before his chest is smashing your face tho...
FatherDog
10-12-2003, 10:47 PM
Well, the immediate defense to the choke would be to turn your head slightly sideways, so that you have room tor breathe.
If you know mount escapes, work them. The setup for most of them should take care of this by themselves.
If you don't know mount escapes... learn 'em. :D
Serpent
10-12-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by FatherDog
Well, the immediate defense to the choke would be to turn your head slightly sideways, so that you have room tor breathe.
If you know mount escapes, work them. The setup for most of them should take care of this by themselves.
If you don't know mount escapes... learn 'em. :D
Erm... that has nothing to do with the original question. What's this about chokes. I think you're in the wrong thread.
shaolin kungfu
10-12-2003, 11:38 PM
I agree with FD. Learn some mount escapes.
edit: FD, he's not being choked. it sounds like the uy is just dropping his weight on him. I could be wrong though
Serpent
10-12-2003, 11:42 PM
Yeah.
Originally posted by Cheese Dog
How do you escape from an opponent that has gotten a good, tight mount on you and is lying on your face and basically smothering you?
chen zhen
10-13-2003, 01:14 AM
u cannot pull of fishhook BEFORE he starts pounding your face, also if he keeps himself centered with a straight back, coz then u cant reach for his face. if youre a beginner then u will not have the space for doing that, since u will use most of your time guarding against his punches.
when talking of mount escapes, then the word "bridge" is a key word;)
(note: i havent learned to do that properly myself, so i just say what i have learned:p)
Merryprankster
10-13-2003, 05:23 AM
Ugh. This situation is no fun.
This is one of those problems where I laugh when people tell you size doesn't matter. It sure as hell does! We have a 340 lbs guy at our school who's fairly athletic and talented for such big fellow. Turns cartwheels and such.
The first step is just not to get mounted. Find an open guard that works for you. Use it to keep his weight off of you. Huge guys can be a real problem for people that like to come underneath for sweeps. And I mean fight like hell to stay out of the mount.
Secondly, I feel your pain. Nothing is quite as panicky as the feeling from a smother choke... That said, work to create a bit of space between your face and his gut with your forearms. Now, Bump up HARD. When I say hard I mean hard. It's an explosive movement designed to do one thing only--allow you to work to your side. It may take 7-8-9 or 10 tries to get enough room to get off your back, but that is what you must do. Don't take no for an answer here. You're looking for space. Any space. And as soon as you get some, stick a part of your body between him and you to keep it there. Work your mount escapes from there.
You've got to understand that the above assumes you KNOW some mount escapes beyond upa. Bump and roll is crazy hard on somebody that size.
yep, that one and the scarf hold (can't remember the japanese name).
I havn't been able to fight out of a scarf hold when it's been sunk buy someone bigger. I'm 230 but have 260, 270 and 300 lb partners to train with and once they get it locked in...that's pretty much all she wrote.
As far as the top mount goes, then I try and get the space and get one of their knees down and then post it and try to tip them off that side.
I assume everyone else works situational drills where your partner gets the hold/lock or whatever and then you both work full speed to keep it or get out of it???
FatherDog
10-13-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Serpent
Erm... that has nothing to do with the original question. What's this about chokes. I think you're in the wrong thread.
When he said 'smothered' I assumed he actually meant his air was being cut off.
If not, then what I said still applies - make some space, then go with the standard mount escapes.
FD - has been celebrating the 500th anniversary of vodka this weekend, so excuse the non-detail of the reply
500 years of Vodka !
Hooray !
which one(s) are you drinking.
(yet another martial thread gone to drinking)
Shaolin-Do
10-13-2003, 09:36 AM
Grey Goose and Belvedier are the way to go.
Or Vox.
:)
SifuAbel
10-13-2003, 09:44 AM
"The first step is just not to get mounted. Find an open guard that works for you. Use it to keep his weight off of you. Huge guys can be a real problem for people that like to come underneath for sweeps. And I mean fight like hell to stay out of the mount."
sanity.............
Knifefighter
10-13-2003, 10:28 AM
With the exception of a couple of neck cranks, he doesn't have much offense while he is leaning in and putting his weight on you. He is mainly trying to maintain postition and make you uncomfotable. If he only outweighs you by 100 lbs., he shouldn't be able to submit you with a smother. Forget the escapes until he begins to work an offense.
MP is right. Keep your forearms up and, if you can't get to your side, at least turn your head to maintain your ability to breathe.
Cheese Dog
10-13-2003, 09:48 PM
Knifefighter, he usually goes for the smother after we've been going for a few minutes and I'm breathing hard.
Merry, when you say bump up hard, do you mean a bridging action? And then just keep doing it until I get enough space to shrimp to one side?
Thanks for the replies, guys!
Merryprankster
10-14-2003, 02:40 AM
bump hard, explosively, and turn to your side. You may only get an inch, but that's all you need to get started.
The biggest problem people have with bumping/bridging, is that they bridge or bump... and land right back on their backs. You have MOVE. Get to your side.
Cheese Dog
10-14-2003, 09:27 PM
Merryprankster, many thanks. I see what you mean now.
SevenStar
10-14-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Oso
yep, that one and the scarf hold (can't remember the japanese name).
kesa gatame.
I havn't been able to fight out of a scarf hold when it's been sunk buy someone bigger. I'm 230 but have 260, 270 and 300 lb partners to train with and once they get it locked in...that's pretty much all she wrote.
When you go for the bridge and roll, slide the knee closest to his back under the small of his back. try then to roll him backwards, using the momentum from the bridge attempt and the fulcrum that is your knee.
SevenStar
10-14-2003, 09:32 PM
as for the original question, yeah, what mp and kf said. when he goes on the offensive, make space and shrimp.
Serpent
10-14-2003, 09:56 PM
Jesus, man, he hasn't got time to make shrimp! And if he's being smothered, the BBQ would probably go out anyway.
You're no help at all!
David Jamieson
10-14-2003, 10:04 PM
Just go with it, it'll all be over in a few minutes. lol:D
No kidding big guys are a threat, especially when they have equl technical talent.
Do your best to not fall into this position as has been stated, don't go under. But if you do find that you are there, what can you do but try to get into a position of strength and get out.
only problem is if he's really heavy and you do get to your side but can't clean out, you might be in for the strangulation of your life. In which case see line one. lol
cheers
anerlich
10-14-2003, 11:24 PM
MP is correct.
If you cant grab a post and bridge and roll, elbow/knee escape is the next simplest. The two work together in some ways.
Not easy against a big dude though.
yep, that one and the scarf hold (can't remember the japanese name).
kesa gatame.
I havn't been able to fight out of a scarf hold when it's been sunk buy someone bigger. I'm 230 but have 260, 270 and 300 lb partners to train with and once they get it locked in...that's pretty much all she wrote.
When you go for the bridge and roll, slide the knee closest to his back under the small of his back. try then to roll him backwards, using the momentum from the bridge attempt and the fulcrum that is your knee.
hmm, so he would be rolling accross you or rather you are rolling under him???
he he, watch, I'll make everyone happy tomorrow night when I ask for situational drills with kesa gatame(thanks)
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