guns and taiji quan

[j-himself]

can someone give me a reason why you shouldnt work out and do taiji. Most people i've seen who does taiji doenst look very muscular. is there a reason for this?
does all those big muscles block off the meridians or something?? it puzzles me...

i'd think u need both a strong external body as well as internal, isnt parity the concept of taiji afterall?

[j-himself]

anyone??

guess the same goes for all internal arts, since all those guys dont look buffed at all

[count]

The correct answer is nobody can give you a reason not to work out, except someone who knows you, like a teacher or something. Hopefully someone qualified to judge what's good for you.

The correct premise is that too much external development inhibits internal health and too much internal training steals from external development. Stronger muscles can't hurt, but are not the key to internal strength. Strong tendons and correct skeletal alignment are key. If something inhibits your range of motion or speed, than I would think that would be a problem. Jeez, Governor Aronold, "the terminator", can't even comb his own hair or take off his own tee-shirt.

The correct generalization is you haven't seen too many practitioners of "Internal Martial Arts", and you spend too much time looking at mens bodies.:p

[Brad]

I saw William C.C. Chen's daughter at 2003 USWU Nationals and she looked like she was in VERY good shape :)

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

j-himself.

Look through previous threads and you will find possible answers to that question.
Also look at the senior students rather than the newbies. ;)

IME, you need to be fit to do any IMA correctly, remember I am not talking Tai Cheese or similar here.
:D

Our top-competitor while not build like arnie has a very solid muscular body.
Maybe I can get some pics from the next Tournament over here.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

J-himself.

One thing I have learned in my MA studies, don't judge fighters by their physical appearance.

I tend to look at the following:
1.) Their stance, even in everyday life you can see a the diff.
2.) Weight shifting.
3.) How they move in general.
4.) Their attitude.

In my style it is said that an experienced praciticioner can watch you perform the 1st move of our 1st form and know all about you and how good your skill is.

[froggy]

Brad, do you mean her taiji looked in good shape or *SHE* looked in good shape?

there's a difference, hehe.

I have a video of her pushing hands. it's not good.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Tiffany's pushing ability is remarkable, few men can hold their own with her.. if the pushing didn't look good, it is likely the level of her competitors.. She is a gifted player and a genuinely decent Lady..

I have video of Tiffany Chen and Kathy Yang (Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's daughter) pushing for the Gold.. you would be impressed at the level of professionalism and control of both Ladies.. (Tiffany won 11 to 2)..

Be well..

[jun_erh]

taiji guys like to think of themselves as intelligent, so they hate wieghtlifting because it's not what they picture a scholar looking like. They would rather be big fatsos than have muscles. They are silly girlish snobs.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by jun_erh
... They are silly girlish snobs.

Correction:

Silly girlish snobs that can kick arse and take names without the need to bulk up for ego satisfaction.

And we get more girls too.
:D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..



taiji guys like to think of themselves as intelligent, so they hate wieghtlifting because it's not what they picture a scholar looking like. They would rather be big fatsos than have muscles. They are silly girlish snobs.

So, how does someone assume such nonsense? Perhaps, "taiji guys" aren't so concerned with appearance as they are with performance.. i, personally, don't know many "fatsos" in Taiji, those i do know are quite formidable Martial Artists.. i don't suspect that Taiji players "hate weight-lifting", i do suspect they understand its usefulness.. that usefulness is not to "buff-up" but to obtain maximum benefit from the intricacies of the CIMA system.. but, the system favors "balance" over extreme, too much "buff" limits performance in the CIMA system..

It's not that they think of themselves as intelligent.. it is that you see the obvious intellect at work.. they have chosen, wisely, to pursue a path that has unlimited growth potential and serves the player well into the senior years.. a path that promotes health, provides for excellent self-defense, and improves one's whole quality of life.. oh, and is largely devoid of the ego problems evident in the original quote..

To refer to Taiji players as "silly girlish snobs" is a comical attempt to transfer one's own inadequacies to those that represent that which the speaker cannot achieve.. (you know, the kid's old "if i can't have it neither can you" sort of thing).. what is "silly" is to make such a statement..

The whole quote listed above is a sad example of the disharmony evident in the CMA/CIMA systems.. i would hope that we would work together to raise our image rather than make such statements and appear so juvenile as to look "silly"..

Be well..

[j-himself]

k.. u guys got me to do some brief thinking

I actually found this pretty funny:

1.) Their stance, even in everyday life you can see a the diff.
2.) Weight shifting.
3.) How they move in general.
4.) Their attitude.

I can see where you're coming from and all, but this can also have nothing to do with taiji whatsoever. same thing goes with martial arts that try to mix philosophies, religion, etc. into their system.

and just because you lift weight doesnt mean you will end up like arnold, or anything bulky as him. look at bruce lee. did lifting weights decrease his flexibility or speed?? i think not.

heres a question for all u people who practice taiji: do you lift weights or not. if not, why? if so, how has this affected/contributed to your taiji training?

[bamboo_ leaf]

http://qi-journal.com/Taiji.asp?-token.SearchID=Li%20Ya%20Xuan

I found that this site has some good info on correct practice and ideas of taiji, they might help with some of the questions here.

[jun_erh]

fellas

this subject comes up alot. Just thought I'd say something different. for no reason

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by bamboo_ leaf
http://qi-journal.com/Taiji.asp?-token.SearchID=Li%20Ya%20Xuan

I found that this site has some good info on correct practice and ideas of taiji, they might help with some of the questions here.

Thanks, for the great link.

Only managed to read it now, been busy. :(

[bamboo_ leaf]

I would be interested to read from you and others what they thought of what was written.

He covers many aspects that people post about and gives his experiences and rezones for either doing or not doing something to include lifting talked about here.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Excellent link, good insight.. consistent with my own understanding.. (unfortunately, my practice needs much improvement to match the insight)..

Be well..

[scotty1]

We do a lot of strength training in our style. Some of it involves weights.

None of it, however, builds what you mioght call 'dead' strength. All of the strength gained is able to be quickly and skillfully applied.

If you have this kind of strenght, it just means that when it comes to being yang, you can do it better. What would be no good was if the strength training diminished your ability to be yin.
But then again, if there's no yang, what's the point in having yin?

Anyway, what I meant to say was: most of the guys who've been doing that harder training for a bit are fairly solid and muscular.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Hi Scotty1,

I am not saying that strength in it self is bad, i dont advocate wt training in my own practice.

I no longer view taiji in terms of ying and yang, I tend to view it more as a central point leading/following the other, the pivot point..

If you manage to lead/follow someone’s intent they supply all the force required, from my perspective there is no becoming yang or becoming yin, just maintaining a dynamic center and leading/following the others intent force.

The idea of leading/following. Kinda strange like putting candy in front of a kid, (leading) his intent, you (follow) adding a little so that he continues to move beyond his own expectations. Strength per say doesn’t come into the equation, it takes a very relaxed body and strong mind.

[scotty1]

Bamboo_Leaf

My post wasn't a response to your post! I wasn't refuting anything you said. It was a response to the OP.

There's obviously a difference in emphasis between the systems each of us does. When it comes to taiji, all I have is what I've learnt theoretically (a lot) and practically (not a lot) so I'm not going to rubbish anyone elses way of doing things.

I believe our system would agree with yours! Except that rather than letting the opponent supply all the force you help him by adding some of your own. I think a problem is peoples differing ideas and definitions of strength. As you would seem to say here

"(leading) his intent, you (follow) adding a little so that he continues to move beyond his own expectations."

adding a little. the more relaxed strength (elastic, trained strength as my teacher calls it) is available to you, the more you can add to his movement.

This is a discussion I've had here before, and they tend to go in circles. different strokes I guess. doesn't mean anyone's violating any principles, and it really annoys me when a discussion like this turns into "you're not doing taiji".

I'm not suggesting you would say that, just rambling.