View Full Version : Reality
Void Boxing
10-20-2003, 03:31 AM
Tell me, how many of you are actually involved in real training - training purely for combat - not messing around with forms, routines, drills and the like, but actually dealing with combat and having your whole training revolve around this issue?
Im interested in discussing with people the role of a martial art and what is real in terms of training and preparing for the real situation.
Thank you.
yenhoi
10-20-2003, 04:04 PM
Well... my training lacks what would be considered "forms" in the CMA sense, but how does one "train" without drills and routines and "the like?"
You might try more specific questions with less abstract un-defnined terms. Specially on JKD forums, IMO.
:confused:
rogue
10-20-2003, 06:57 PM
Void Boxing, those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Void Boxing
10-21-2003, 04:17 AM
To put it another way:
How many of you have transcended your drills and routines and discovered a place of creativity and understanding?
How many of you still practice with set drills to refine your skills?
I have certain tools i use, but no set way to use them and that is how i train. So avoiding drills and allowing real combat scenarios, full contact sparring to show me the way, not the drills - your skills are naturally refined in the real situation - truth is spontaneous, not practiced or cultivated. Therefore train in the spontaneous relationship and you will learn and create your tools in different ways.
yenhoi
10-21-2003, 07:42 AM
Well... no then, I havent transcended.
oh well.
:confused:
apoweyn
10-21-2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Void Boxing
To put it another way:
How many of you have transcended your drills and routines and discovered a place of creativity and understanding?
How many of you still practice with set drills to refine your skills?
I have certain tools i use, but no set way to use them and that is how i train. So avoiding drills and allowing real combat scenarios, full contact sparring to show me the way, not the drills - your skills are naturally refined in the real situation - truth is spontaneous, not practiced or cultivated. Therefore train in the spontaneous relationship and you will learn and create your tools in different ways.
No offense intended. But could you translate this into slightly more practical terms, minus the philosophical vagaries.
It's not that I have anything against philosophy. Quite the contrary. But I have no real idea what you mean when you say you've transcended drills, discovered a place of creativity and understanding, trained in a spontaneous relationship, etc.
So, without making reference to 'no mind' or 'being like water', how precisely did you do that? How, step by step, did you break a reliance on forms and drills?
I'm curious.
Thanks.
Stuart B.
Yung Apprentice
10-21-2003, 04:48 PM
It sounds like he's talking more about a fight club than anything else.
Even some of the martial arts that are considered to be more combat oriented, such as bjj, have "set drills", it's a very good tool IMO.
But hey, if your way works for you, then conrgatulations.
rogue
10-21-2003, 06:17 PM
Not that Void Boxing has figured out what truth is maybe he can work on why do men have nipples?:confused:
apoweyn
10-22-2003, 07:03 AM
Robert DeNiro has nipples, Rogue. Could you milk Robert DeNiro?
...and if so, who would drink the milk?
"Are you milkin' me? Are you grabbin' my nipples? I don't see anyone else."
apoweyn
10-22-2003, 09:35 AM
LOL
Yung Apprentice
10-22-2003, 04:42 PM
MILK JUST SPRAYED OUT MY NOSE!!!!!
rogue
10-22-2003, 05:37 PM
Sometimes a thead goes bad and you just don't know how it happened, this one you can see every twisted turn.:p
Robert DeNiro has nipples, Rogue. Could you milk Robert DeNiro? apoweyn, I don't think I want to know how that thought got into your head.:eek:
Taijiquan ninja
10-22-2003, 05:51 PM
i know where the thought came from. robert deniro played the father in meet the parents. Why do men have nipples??? that is the question isnt it i wish i knew all i do know is i would milk robert deniro if i got to milk the woman that played the mom first :D
apoweyn
10-23-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by rogue
apoweyn, I don't think I want to know how that thought got into your head.
Tough rocks, 'cause I'm going to tell ya. :)
Like Taijiquan ninja said, DeNiro plays the father in Meet the Parents. And in a brilliantly awkward exchange, Ben Stiller explains that you can milk anything with nipples. DeNiro then says, "I have nipples Greg. Could you milk me?"
Oh we laughed.
Stuart B.
Albino_Mantis
10-23-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Void Boxing
To put it another way:
How many of you have transcended your drills and routines and discovered a place of creativity and understanding?
How many of you still practice with set drills to refine your skills?
I have certain tools i use, but no set way to use them and that is how i train. So avoiding drills and allowing real combat scenarios, full contact sparring to show me the way, not the drills - your skills are naturally refined in the real situation - truth is spontaneous, not practiced or cultivated. Therefore train in the spontaneous relationship and you will learn and create your tools in different ways.
All the great martial artist I have met still practice forms. The late Lai Sifu (7* Star Praying Mantis) always practiced forms, and no one ever successfully contested how great he was.
SevenStar
11-10-2003, 11:41 PM
1. your "real combat scenario" is still nothing more than a drill, no? It's only a different type of drill. So actually, you haven't transcended anything.
2. What reason would I have to abandon my drilling? drilling techniques is how I perfect them. I may throw 500 jabs per day, but you know what? I have a d@mn good jab. drilling doesn't limit spontaneous creation, and it sounds like that's what you're TRYING to imply. If I do jab/cross hook, jab/jab/cross, jab/cross/hook/uppercut, etc. repeatedly in drills, what you are saying is that when I fight, I will use those same combinations. the answer to that is yes... and no.
Those are basic combinations - you build off of those. while you are sparring, you will create new combinations on the fly - you realize that when you have leather flying at you, your preset drill don't always work - fighting is funny that way. But, when I drill, I will still drill my combinations. In addition, you also do free flow work. you hit the bag as you would an opponent, you have a partner feed you for pad drills, but he will hold up varying feeds - whatever he feels like - and you respond. call it active drilling if you will, but drilling in itself does not limit spontaneity.
Decide what's useful, discard what isn't . . .
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Exactly how long does it take to understand what is useful, and what isn't? Certainly longer than five years . . . ;)
Except Royce. Through his transcendation of the striking arts in sport combat, he is all powerful, and would most certainly choke me out . . .
Right before the chi flew out his nose!!!
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