More 'real' king fu (vid)

[Suntzu]

2003 Kuoshu clip..... i dont know who they are tho....
http://www.risingdragonmartialart.com/gallery/video/2003sifusteve.mov

[Shaolin-Do]

King fu eh?
You will fear and respect my king fu.
Hmmm... Well... To say the least, it looked like they were walking like gumby cause of the choppy crappiness of the video. Other than that I cant really comment on it.

[Suntzu]

:eek:

[Ford Prefect]

That's not kung fu! That's real fighting! :p BTW, it looked like they'd do good to learn some Judo or Greco. That guy in the yellow (Did that say USCK - US Combat Karate?) had some good oppurtunities.

[Suntzu]

i agree.... most of the fighters that won this year had good throw training on their side.... even tho the point system isn't on their side the damage they cause more than makes up for it......... or maybe blue had good counters... i don't know.... but i saw some elbows snuck in during the clinch tho........ United States Chinese Kuoshu something or other.... i cant get with the sweat pants tho.....

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah, I saw some of those elbows too. I didn't know if that was against the rules or not. ;) I agree that blue may of had good counters. It just appeared that they didn't have a good handle on throws, but you never can tell in the heat of action. Any throws or takedowns against the rules?

[Suntzu]

elbows are all good.... and i THINK u only get points if u remain standing.... illegal throws i'm not sure about...

[Musicalkatachmp]

Blue= Pai lum tao
Yellow = wing chun (I think)

The guy in blue won first place last year and second this year in superheavyweight...he is Glen Wilson's student...elbows are legal and give you points unless you hold their head with one hand and elbow with the other, it definitely doesn't give you points. I think the guy in yellow won first place a few years ago too....


I couldn't see much because of the distance and quality of the video. I thought it looked pretty good but once I saw a punch that was a swat straight down, which always makes me puke. I can't remember which guy threw it.

And Sun Tzu, they changed the rule last year, throws are scored just like in san shou where you get more points if you remain standing but you still get points if you land on top.

[Musicalkatachmp]

Watching it again I hear the announcer said "Both fighters down, no points." I'm pretty sure this was just out of habit, because you definitely get points for landing on top.

[lkfmdc]

It took a while to download for me (dial up) but I HAVE to ask... you think this is GOOD fighting? :rolleyes: Espceically because the file is called "sifu steve" is this someone who claims to be high level?

I would suggest that if this is "good" kung fu fighting, then I can safely rest my case as to how "effective" the training methods are :(

[Mutant]

i have to agree with lkfmdc on this one...

[fa_jing]

The Kuoshu guys did pretty well at our Kung-fu championships tournaments last year. FWIW, I think I could hang with those guys in the clip, so could a few more of the local KF participants here I've seen, and there were 3 guys that competed in the last tournament in particular (one was Sevenstar's sifu's brother from out of town) that I think could have taken these guys fairly easily (and me as well, for that matter). Shadow, I know you're reading, get those clips done man. :)

Clinch work always looks wierd to me with no knees. Good show though.

[Musicalkatachmp]

The video isnt showing up on my comp very well...I wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway, I suck at critiquing fights...I did see a big elbow thrown when the camera zooms in, couldn't tell if it landed flush or not...


Espceically because the file is called "sifu steve" is this someone who claims to be high level?

The blind leading the blind eh? I fought two guys from the same organization at this same tournament...I thought they were pretty good...but they were from different schools within the org.

[Suntzu]

'good'..... 'bad'... whatever.... they got up there... that gets my respect.... could i hose 'em?..... let me win Born to Fight first.... than i'll get back to ya....

[Merryprankster]

Do they get my respect for stepping up?

Oh my yes.

Did they suck? Badly?

Oh my yes.

Looked like a schoolyard fight.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Musicalkatachmp
Blue= Pai lum tao
Yellow = wing chun (I think)

The guy in blue won first place last year and second this year in superheavyweight...he is Glen Wilson's student...elbows are legal and give you points unless you hold their head with one hand and elbow with the other, it definitely doesn't give you points. I think the guy in yellow won first place a few years ago too....


I couldn't see much because of the distance and quality of the video. I thought it looked pretty good but once I saw a punch that was a swat straight down, which always makes me puke. I can't remember which guy threw it.

And Sun Tzu, they changed the rule last year, throws are scored just like in san shou where you get more points if you remain standing but you still get points if you land on top.

HI KKM

[lkfmdc]

Reading more, I noticed this ...

"The guy in blue won first place last year"

So he's a "kuoshu champion" huh? :rolleyes:

This clip is my new poster child for "Lei Tai Kuoshu fighting", I say frequently that it is a format going no where FAST, this just proves it..

I have fighters in their FIRST FIGHT with a couple of months of training that would school these two gentlemen...

PROPS for fighting, but skill level is practically NON EXISTANT

[Musicalkatachmp]

Ross,
I like kuoshu b/c it allows elbows. The gloves hitting that mask suck but its still pretty fun. There were about 100 fighters this year. Yes I think both fighters in the clip were former champions.

Water Dragon,
What is KKM?

[lkfmdc]

So BOTH are formers champions, that is just sad :rolleyes:

SO they allow elbows? Doesn't seem to matter since the format doesnt' seem to develop any real usable skill with them! Lord's sake, these are both "champions" and they look like idiots!

[Starchaser107]

I will agree with Ross,
those fighters suck... I'm sorry to say.
...was not impressed.

[red5angel]

I'm not sure what to say. I'm so irritated at that video at the moment it makes me sick. Do I have respect for them because they got up and fought? More then the guys who claim to be able to but don't, is that a lot of respect? No. What is the deal with these half assed fighters getting into the ring and fighting like they have no idea what is going on? I didn't see kungfu, I saw weak ass street brawling, which is fine if your an average idiot in a fight with another average idiot at a bar, but not a martial artist, and most certainly not a sifu, and to top it all off one who is trying to fight.
I'm so disgusted I just don't know what to say. If you're going to fight, and if your going to compete, you need to train and you need to fight like it, not like you are sparring with the boys on a sunday afternoon at the kwoon.
fukk this video has me really irritated.

[Musicalkatachmp]

"Lei Tai Kuoshu fighting", I say frequently that it is a format going no where FAST

Oh yeah?

http://www.freestatemartialarts.com/VideoPage.htm

[Starchaser107]

so as not to be an @ssh0le i will say why.

poor footwork
zero kicking
inabilty to display throwing techniques

also even if they were both scared to kick and decided to stay on thier feet, thier boxing skills need great improvement. It makes the situation worse that one was called "sifu"

[Starchaser107]

it just looked ametuerish...you say they were former champions but it looks as though it was thier first time fighting.

[Musicalkatachmp]

This is my Grandmaster's tournament so I can't really say what I think. So I'll say what Ross thinks.


PROPS for fighting, but skill level is practically NON EXISTANT

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Musicalkatachmp
Ross,
I like kuoshu b/c it allows elbows. The gloves hitting that mask suck but its still pretty fun. There were about 100 fighters this year. Yes I think both fighters in the clip were former champions.

Water Dragon,
What is KKM?

lol at kkm asking about kkm. That was pretty funny kkm.

[Musicalkatachmp]

LOL How did you figure it out man?

[lkfmdc]

With dial up, it will take me a year to upload those files, but I can cut to the chase real quick

I assume everyone knows that "Kuoshu" is also a CLOSED EVENT. We tried to send a team in 1997, 1998 and 1999 and all we got was a million excuses and promises they'd send us applications and lost of BS. They did the same thing to Cung Le by the way... The answer why should be pretty obvious, the "champions" would get schooled by students and it would make them look real bad....

Why don't either of these champions enter San Da matches? If they want elbows, they can enter a pro match. But first I'd buy a lot of life insurance.

This is pretty pathetic....

[Musicalkatachmp]

Ross,
I agree with what you say about kuoshu...but a lot of people have done it and some of them actually can fight...Julio fought one year, so did David Wiltshire.

Oh I didn't know it was a closed tournament though. I knew it was amateurs only...

[Suntzu]

where do i start.........
LOL @ MP....... LOL@ "Hi KKM"...... LOL @ "What is KKM?"..... LOL @ "I can't really say what I think. So I'll say what Ross thinks."........... just a few months ago sompe people was swearing the Kuoshu or touraments like it were the pinnacle of "real" kung fu........ not to diss the Kuoshu event... it was a good event and i enjoy it every year..... but even the "good" fights looked like.... how did he say it......
street brawling, which is fine if your an average idiot in a fight with another average idiot at a bar just that one was more brawlish than the other...... so i don't know what those with there fingers crossed expect to see from "high level" kung fu........ and....
PROPS for fighting see u at the gym later KKM :D

[lkfmdc]

I downloaded "reggie" and "john2" so far, nothing at all impressive...

[Musicalkatachmp]

What the $%*& is KKM? I figured it was someone's initials that WD knows, but Sun Tzu seems to know what it is too...someone please tell me what it is...

And does anyone know where I can get some glow in the dark weapons for our next flick?

Ross I was being sarcastic about those clips...they will make that other clip look much more scientific and tactical...kinda like those really fat twins that sit on those motorcycles...so the bikes look really small

[lkfmdc]

I know Julio and Whiltshire fought in it. Whiltshire was the champion one year... but it is kind of funny that after THREE **** YEARS of trying, they couldn't seem to find the application forms to send them to us, OR to Cung Le....

[Water Dragon]

kkm by armbar

[lkfmdc]

Compare the "champions" of Kuo Shu to some low level kickboxing degraded san shou guys :)

http://marvinperry.org/images/1Marvin.mov

http://marvinperry.org/images/1pope.mov

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/sanshou/ssmov2.mov

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/sanshou/ssmov.mov

[Suntzu]

LOL @ the signature........

who are those guys in the last 2 clips.... i know it from your site.... but i'm too lazy to check.....

[Water Dragon]

lmao @ kkmdc's sig!

[lkfmdc]

The last two clips are just some guys from a tournament, I found it on the web and saved it because I thought it was pretty cool. they aren't even "champions"

[fa_jing]

www.angelfire.com seems to be prohibited to every firewall known to man...

[Zbloff]

It seems to be swedish guys in the 2 last clips... at least they're yelling swedish stuff at him from ringside. not that it helped... :(

http://kungfu.framtid.nu/Mediabank.html

enjoy if you'd like some more swedish sanshou

;)

[Musicalkatachmp]

First of all, Water Dragon, yes I was a troll for a while b/c I wanted to promote our movie, but I am familiar w/ kuoshu, and all the info I provided was true to the best of my knowledge...

Some more thoughts on this clip, after talking with Sun Tzu/Jowbacca about it during class on friday...

When Sun Tzu posted this clip, he never said it was good, he just said it was real kung fu. These guys both trained in kung fu (wing chun and pai lum, respectively) and got onto the platform to test their skills in full contact competition. Hats off to them, better than hiding behind a bunch of lame excuses about how kung fu is too deadly for the ring.

Some more notes on kuoshu:
They use the really light gloves with finger holes a little bigger than UFC gloves I think.
Of the top 20 ugliest fights I have ever seen, probably about 19 or 20 of them took place in this tournament. (That is unless of course, you count continuous sparring, in which case kuoshu has some of the cleanest fights I have ever seen). Slapping and swatting with little defense is common, if not the norm.

But, I have also seen some good fights.

An excellent fighter that fought in Ross' tournament won kuoshu after surviving a near second round knock-out...barely.

We received complaints this year that some of the fighters were pros. I believe these accusations to be correct.

The gentleman featured in the clip, no doubt world famous by now thanks to us, Shifu Steve, as his fans lovingly call him, doesn't even know or care that any of this is occuring. He certainly never came out and said to any of us, "Check this out it's way better than San Shou."

Every year more fighters compete in the tournament shown in the clip here. This year there were about 100.

So if Sifu Steve's technique looked sloppy, remember that that could have been his third or fourth fight on that day.

In fact, I did a little research on their site and found that one of the students won a gold medal in San Shou at Arnold's Battle of Columbus. The same guy won a silver medal at kuoshu this year.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Those guys repeatedly set themselves up to have their heads bounced off of the mat...What the **** was that all about? Those guys are sifus? McDojo?

[fa_jing]

I agree, the fighters looked tired. They may not have been especially gifted, but they didn't suck either. It's not on the level of the San Shou clips we've seen, but it looked like a good time. Nothing to be alarmed at, except for ridiculous marketing claims of being a "champion" - I don't think that term can really apply to a tournament of this level.

[lkfmdc]

- "In fact, I did a little research on their site and found that one of the students won a gold medal in San Shou at Arnold's Battle of Columbus. The same guy won a silver medal at kuoshu this year."

I smell BOOOLL SHEEEEETTTTT, what year do they claim to have won? Last year, fighters from my school took 1st in EVERY WEIGHT CLASS...

[Meat Shake]

d@mn. No more massive post count.
Those clips sucked. Props to them for getting up and doing their thing, but it should have been a jack@ss segment, not a tournament.

[lkfmdc]

I just looked it up, they claim 2003.... they are full of CRAP.... maybe they need someone to send them an email, hmmmmmmm

[lkfmdc]

as for being tired, F man, san shou fighters fight 2 to 4 times a day also, they are just poorly conditioned and with poor technique

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THIS CRAP

[Meat Shake]

Just makes me glad Ive got what Ive got here...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i don't like hating on anyone with the balls to go up there, but it just seemed like they kept locking up for no real purpose. like they thought they might have some throws up their sleave but immediately forgot them once they got in the clinch.

i think it would have went down a lot better if they both just kept to their range and duked it out. some of the puches didn't look very powerful, but 90% were thrown from a position they really didnt look comfortable in.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
as for being tired, F man, san shou fighters fight 2 to 4 times a day also, they are just poorly conditioned and with poor technique

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THIS CRAP

Point taken. I'll stop now. :cool:

[lkfmdc]

Can't believe they have the balls to claim they won at Arnold when clearly they did NOT.......

[red5angel]

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THIS CRAP


agreed, I think it's embarrassing these guys got into the ring and its embarrassing they let someone tape it and even more embarassing its on the internet.

[Musicalkatachmp]

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THIS CRAP

I am only doing it b/c they aren't here to defend themselves.


Nothing to be alarmed at, except for ridiculous marketing claims of being a "champion" - I don't think that term can really apply to a tournament of this level.

There were a hundred fighters this year, so rest assured that some of them were very good. Not all fights at the tournament looked like this. Niether of these guys won this year, who knows, the guy who got first place could have been really good we don't know.

But if you were to change "champion" in your statement to "world champion" I would agree with you 100%. On the website they claim to be world champions which is misleading.

[lkfmdc]

Man, they claim to have WON at the Arnold, when I know for a FACT, no they didn't! How do I know? Because with the exception of ONE DIVISION, I didn't have a fighter in, we won EVERY DIVISION. ANd that one division was won by Kengo from Cung's school!!!!!!!!!

[Musicalkatachmp]

I am not familiar with the Battle of Columbus tournament, but calling oneself a "World Champion" for winning kuoshu is pretty lame. But I guess they are doing it for marketing purposes, as most schools do. I don't let it bother me b/c cracking down on schools that exaggerate their accomplishments is like taking salt out of the ocean.

[The Willow Sword]

The first clip of the two fighting(sifu steve and opponent).

I didnt see anything real solid there at all. Very beginner like and no technique. I mean when you look at the engagement it is the same thing all around as you see in most tourneys(even ones i have been in) you get up there and you "try" to be natural and flowing but it never turns out that way. its amazing that the techniques and forms you are taught dont really sink in and you wind up just going at it like two old ladies.

the second set of clips posted by lkfmdc : much better in terms of technique but i still see the strength being uncontrolled and clumsy. The throws were good in one of the clips(you would think the other guy would have figured it out after the first take down that you dont lift up your leg when you are in close)

All in all i say the latter clips look okay the first one of sifu steve didnt strike me as very impressive i would re-name him "student steve".

now i dont know how Xingyi would have faired against the throws, but i have a pretty good idea that for the rest of the styles shown that xingyi would have faired really well against them.
TWS