View Full Version : Realist training

06-19-2000, 07:54 AM
I'm not trying to start another war, here, I'm just curious.
For you realists, what are your training techniques. I know you people preach cross-training, but I cross-train (Wrestling)
and I doubt that alone makes me a realist.
There are many others I can think of, but I just want your opinions.


06-19-2000, 07:56 AM
ok so im an idiot.
what is cross training, realist, IMHO, and all the other god **** things u keep saying!

Thnx, u can reach me at Nhoar@excite.com or my icq # which is 45329274!

06-19-2000, 09:50 AM
i dont think theres a major difference just most realist(i said most) dont like to admit that all their so called one technique styles are just revamped kung fu thats been around for 1000's of years but they say the developed it after years of trainning. not that the years of trainning helped lol

the more you sweat in peace
the less you bleed in war

06-19-2000, 10:50 AM
Simple, the best training technique IMHO is sparring, but not just any sparring. I mean breaking down your sparring for a specific goal to train and develope a specific set of techniques or tools. The idea is to isolate the area you are trying to work on piece by piece using whatever amount of power you are comfortable with. Then at the end put it all together, using varying levels of power and contact and see how everything goes. One step sparring and focus mitt drills can only take you so far. There good for making your technique and form look good, but you need to spar to go further. I also believe that proper safely equipment should be used btw, as I don't see the point in getting seriously hurt. I hope that helps.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

[This message has been edited by GinSueDog (edited 06-20-2000).]

06-20-2000, 12:53 AM
Cross training = studying more than one martial art, so you can cover different areas of expertise (like groundfighting, trapping, striking etc) in more detail

IMHO = net slang for in my humble opinion (always followed by a not very humble opinion /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Realist = a system that believes the best way to train is to take what they consider useful from all kinds of other styles, and sometimes make bits of their own up, and usually train sparring lots, as well as loads of situational drills.

06-20-2000, 01:17 AM
Great Question HappyPuppyF.

Martial realists don't have to cross train. You could only train in one style all your life and be a realist when it comes to your training.
The difference is that "reality based" artists use different tools and diffent criteria than "nonrealists".

For one, the scenarios are entirely different. Reality based training puts you in a dissadvantageous situtation from the start. Multiple attackers, weapons, unknown positions, etc. A good reality based program will test and train their students in differing environments with natural obstacles.
Instead, nonrealists train duel style. If there are multiple attackers or weapons the trainee knows where they are, and what they will be doing.

Also, the criteria for judging a good technique for a martial realist is, "Could I make this worked in the street?" Not has someone else made it work and taught it to me, or someone told me it would work. Big difference.

As for sparring, reality based schools use sparring as a laboratory as well as a testing ground. Nonreality schools use sparring as only a testing ground for already learned techniques. The reality based schools are interested in "tinkering" with new technques all the time. The only place to test if they work before trying them on the street is through hard sparring. The nonreality school is testing the individual, already assuming the learned technique is valid. The reality based school is testing the technique as well, not assuming it will work at all.

And finally, the reality based schools almost exclusively have one primary goal in mind, to make people better fighters. Contrast this with the goal of making someone a better karateka, judoka, wrestler, striker, etc. Again, big difference. And also the reason why so many reality based schools cross train.


If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

laughing tiger
06-20-2000, 02:44 AM
I think we all naturally gravitate to arts that fit the kind of mind, temperment, phyical abilities...just the way we perceive things. To put me in an american karate class wouldn't work for me. Maybe putting Knifefighter in a Praying Mantis school wouldn't be his cup of tea, or Nhoar in an Aikido class (just as possible examples). Although, someone like Gin Sue Dog seems to adapt very well to a variety of very different scenarios. It all depends of where your head is. No one is wrong.

laughing tiger
06-20-2000, 02:47 AM
somepeople like blue, others red.The arts are no different.

06-20-2000, 10:25 AM
The sparring methods as GinsueDog described them are most important. Other stuff includes live drills such as basic footwork movement (live footwork...not like shifting horse stances), shadowboxing, focus mitt drills, thai kicking pad drills, partner drills, working grappling techniques and submissions on a partner and then trying them out in live mat grappling...you get the picture. We try to push the conditioning very hard (as in lots of contact and bucketloads of sweat).


06-20-2000, 10:59 AM
I have never understood why some schools call themselves "Reality" fighting schools.
It seems like an open insult to all other schools that do martial arts such as Karate,
Kung-fu,etc. WHen i did karate in japan in the 70"s you couldnt get any more real than that! i am serious, you would go home with a sprain or a fracture or busted lip. that is pretty real to me. In judo you were required
once you got an opponent to the ground, to choke him out, and then revive him. that was pretty real too. even when we did kata there was nothing there that was unrealistic that could not be implemented on the street. In shaolin kung fu the reality is that speed and evasiveness can overcome the straight on attacker. We do cross training, but not in another style. for us that is unethical and an insult to our teacher and school. I have always believed that you create your own reality, no matter what the circumstances.
ans i am almost an old dog now so i know what i am talkin about. Any way i am rambling,,,,,,,peace and prosperity. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

06-20-2000, 12:04 PM

I think realist are those who are less worried about how the art looks or making fighting more complicated for themselves, and are more interested in weather it works in real life.

So my way of training/teaching is to look at each attack/defence, test it through realistic sparring, look at all the variables I may face in real life, ie: will this sequence of chain blocks and strikes actually work when going all out in a real fight and will I get stomped if I arm bar him in this position, what happens if there is someone else behind me.

We also have a drill were four of us gear up and 3 guys jump 1 guy. The 3 have to show some amount of control, while the 1 can go all out, so the 3 wear more protective gear than the 1.

06-20-2000, 08:46 PM
Have you tried throwing a weapon into that mix? Some of the guys I train with will do a similar drill only the one guy gets a knife or stick, after a minute of being ganed up on he passes his weapon to the next guy who then has to defend himself from everyone else. What are your thoughts?-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

06-20-2000, 09:41 PM
Everything in a traditional system can work. You have to understand the technique and the proper application. Its a skill and it takes time and practice to learn just like any other skill.

06-21-2000, 09:58 PM
Good topic.How does VIGILANTE train? I was hopin' someone would ask---:)---First and foremost,I train my mind.Reaction-time is crucial,you can't react if your 'frozen' with fear.Also,if you are afraid of getting hurt,you won't be able to 'mix-it-up'.My attitude towards other fighters is:if challenged,I will normally accept.If I get my butt kicked,I blame myself.I am not a sore loser,if I lose,I train harder.If I win,I don't rub-it-in. I am a weapons fanatic,I train with all weapons on this list:sniper-rifle,assault-rifles,shotguns,handguns,cross-bow,knives,straight-razors,hatchets,axe,machetes,long staff,escrimas,3-section staff,3-sec. nunchaku,4-sec. nunchaku(made myself), nunchaku(with 20-link chain),short staff,spear,elbow-spike(made myself) and there's also what I call 'use whatever is available'.(an example of this would be: If your attacker is near a brick-wall,introduce his head to the bricks;or,if your attacker has a knife and you have just enough time to grab that big branch on the ground).Sparring is an absolute necessity to me,I spar one-on-one,against multiples and with 'practice' weapons.We spar HARD,it is the only way.I lift weights for strength,not size.I climb tall ropes(with extra weight on me) using just my arms.I climb quickly to the top(appxtly 25feet) and as slow as I can back down.Try it guys,it works great.I also climb palm trees(this is not easy).As for the 'styles' and techniques I like:boxing(punching power),jkd(I like jkd's 'create your own style' philosophy),tkd(learned a lot of kicks there,don't like the 'hand' techniques though),I am also interested in silat,wing chun,baguazhang,iron palm and iron body.I have also built a lot of unique training equipment.I know this is a long reply,but,you asked----:)

06-22-2000, 02:17 PM
GinSueDog: Yeah, that's all part of th drill as well. We use wooden knives, plasticised baseball bats, Kail/arnis and what ever training weapon we can throw in (guns being the exclusion). We also do the drill with all parties involved being armed and that's when the fun usually starts. Weather armed on unarmed the attackers still have to show a reasonable amount of control.

06-22-2000, 08:38 PM
I do Wing Chun (including Wing Chun grappling)and kickboxing and we do 1 on 1 drills, multiple partner drills, I haven't started weapons but we do weapons drills as well as escaping from joint locks, and reaction response drills. focus pads, kick shields, focus mitts,thai pads, heavy bags, sparring, predetermined drills with random elements thrown in over time as well as full speed and full depth until a lot of your drills become completely random and very fast, chi sao, forms, visualization,wooden dummy and conditioning.
I might have forgotten some for now please forgive me.

"take the pebble from my hand"

[This message has been edited by flavour54 (edited 06-23-2000).]