Tai Ji meaning

[Lin-Wu]

What`s TJQ`s "exact" translation?I was told it meant "strong center"or also "firm center"and ONLY that,but it doesn`t make much sense for me,because I know Quan(or also Chuan) means "boxe",so,if this translation is correct,it would have to be,at the very least, "strong center boxing".Please,would someone enlighten me?

[Sho]

tai = very, too, much; big; extreme
ji = extreme, utmost, furthest, final
quan = fist

That's the exact (literal) translation.

[Lin-Wu]

"Quan" means fist?!So the --MOST-- accurate translation would be "very extreme fist" or some such?

[Felipe Bido]

No...it must be "The fist of...the Supreme Ultimate", or, to be literal as Sho, "The Fist of the Very Extreme", or "The Fist of the Extreme Ultimate"

If you say "Very extreme fist", you will be making the Tai Ji part an adjective of the word 'fist', and that's not the case. 'Tai Ji' is a state in the Universe.

I'd like to explain more, but I'm a spanish speaker, describing a chinese term in english :D . I could make a mess

[Repulsive Monkey]

My understang is that it is Supreme Pole fist.

[PHILBERT]

I've always called it Grand Ultimate Fist, or Great Ultimate Fist.

[RAF]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=13401

GLW
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 1969
Location: Houston, Tx. USA
Posts: 592
Done this before...but here it goes again:

The name for the art is Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan - depending on the spelling you want to use).

It breaks down actually as:

Taiji
Quan

Taiji is the Grand Terminus and NOT Supreme Ultimate.

The Grand Terminus is the concept of Yin and Yang - the Taiji is the Yin Yang symbol and all it stands for.

Therefore:
Taiji is Yin and Yang - the Grand Terminus - the Grand Pivot.

Taijiquan is the martial style based upon the concepts of Yin and Yang.
__________________________________________________

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=15365

[Mo Ling]

Oh God...RAF,
thanks for posting that, you did well,

RAF is absolutely right. People seem to have interpreted taiji as grand ultimate...which is firstly very simplistic, and secondly quite a brag.

Tai means extreme
Ji in this case can be interpreted to mean extreme point or terminus as he said. The resulting fusing of the two characters can be interpreted to mean in simple terms, extremes in general or the relation bewteen the extremely large or far and the extremely small or defined point...this of course is a bit hard to explain in this way, but the basic idea is the relationshiip between the extremes of yin and yang.
Yes as he said taiji means basically the Yin and Yang cycle.
Taiji has become known as a concept, a word of its own in Chinese. Taijiquan is not the "grand ultimate" fist, it is the "Taiji" fist, that means the fist that uses the Taiji concept.

This seems fairly known in China, I am really not sure how the interpretation got so snarled over the years.



www.taijigongfu.com

[omarthefish]

The problem is that 'taiji' is a philosphical/religious concept that has no real equivalent in western thought systems. There's a few constructs out there that are very analogous, but really not the same, especially when you consider the entire context. It's one of those words like 'qi' or 'yin' and 'yang' which is better to just leave untranslated and understand the meaning from the way it's used, just as you once did with all the new words you learned in your own language growing up.

When you were 2 years old, there was no one to translate anything into your little two year old brain language was there now? :p

[Ray Pina]

I would translate Taiji into English as The Matrix of Cause and Effect that is Responsible for the World Around Us. Or God, but in the West the word God gets all messy already.

Taiji is what I see when I wake up and look out the window and see the sun rising and the waves are 4 to 6 feet and perfect.

It's also the reading in the paper that 30 more people were killed in Iraq today. It is everything ... even the nothings.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Whew!!! Now, we are at a difficult level of conceptualizing.. Communication is based on common or similar experiences, where one person verbalizes or writes a series of sounds or words that cause another to recall similar experiences and compare concepts.. The problem is that no two people have exactly the same recall of exactly the same experience.. like, two people taste Tuna flavored icecream.. one gags, the other melts into ecstasy.. same experience, completely different interpretation.. Now, we add a vastly different cultural perspective to the already differing interpretation of an experience, and we have conceptual chaos..

Noteworthy, is the fervor with which a person holds to their beliefs.. however one experiences Taiji (Tai Chi, Taijiquan, T'ai Chi Chuan, etc...) is the only reference they have that is based on experience.. to communicate a series of words or expressions that they have no experience to recall is, essentially, a "theory of words" to the listener/reader.. Whatever the literal translation of Tai Chi is, it is the individual body of experiences for the listener determines the understanding..

Personally, my experiences have brought me to understand Taiji as a philosophical approach to living based largely on Taoist natural concepts.. Taijiquan is a set of movements, a state of mind, a "Martial Meditation" that embodies the Yin/Yang principles of balance and interaction.. it is similar to Taoist principles expressed as a uniquely effective interaction/dance with Martial intent.. As much as i personally enjoy and appreciate the wisdom and research presented here regarding the "Tai ji meaning", i sense that we trouble ourselves with an un-resolvable attempt to explain cultural differences when we lack the cultural history to appreciate the subtle meanings of the phrase.. Recognizing the difficulty of this type of communication, i favor recounting my Taiji/Taijiquan experiences from a purely "western" perspective while absorbing the Eastern wisdoms to the best of my ability..

However we communicate "Parting the Wild Horse's Mane", the experience of encountering it as an application can much more easily be described by using familiar language based on common cultural concepts.. "Grand Terminus", "Great Ultimate", "Extreme Fist", "Supreme Ultimate", etc... all these terms and meanings do not change the "experience" of Taiji/Taijiquan.. they do, however, confuse the issue.. for myself, when i hear or read these terms it is my personal "experiences" that i recall to add meaning to the words/sounds.. so, for me, it is simpler to use a single phrase, without complex discourse, (ie: Taiji or Tai Chi) and let my experiences define its meaning rather than trouble my simple mind with linguistic technicalities..

Thanks for letting me rant.. be well...

[Lin-Wu]

Ok,the thread got a little philosophical,but I think I got the picture as a whole.We don`t have a literal translation because:
1-It`s not necessary to translate the name to try and better understand it,while what we have to understand is the experience itself.

and

2-taijiquan has,over time,aqquired a new,unique meaning.So,translating taijiquan would not only be unnecessary,as mentioned above,as it`d also be "fruitless"(in lack of a better term)i.e.trying to translate someone`s name.

Is this what you`re trying to tell me?If not,feel free to correct me as you wish.Thanx!!!

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

TCB.

Great Post. I also feel that translations and assigned meanings can lead down the wrong road.

For me the study of Taiji starts with Wuji.

I agree that TJQ is alot about feeling and personal experience.
IMO, a correct executed movement has a certain feel to it, you can't explain or describe to other they need to experience it for themselves.

Problem is that you can search for it for years and not get it.

[RAF]

Mo_Ling:

Just want to given credit where credit is due---that was GLW's post and his posts tend to be pretty sharp just as yourself.

There are some really bright guys here, giving out good info..

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Last evening i was chatting with an elderly Chinese gentleman and the "meaning" of Tai Chi came up.. i explained the concepts discussed in this forum, he smiled warmly and said something to the effect.. Tai Chi can be emotionally or literally translated as several things, but.. conceptually, Tai Chi evokes "change" in his mind.. that, first you have Wuji, stillness, the void, unchanging and undifferentiated.. from Wuji comes Taiji, which is change/movement.. Beyond that, he said, the mind and personal preference begins to massage the meaning to fit desires and goals.. he also cautioned against over-conceptualizing Taiji's profound simplicity, that to perceive it as a martial art begins to confine its limitless potential.. better, he said, to let the "martial art" flow from that limitless potential..

Now, i will add my own commentary.. a truly balanced martial art incorporates not only its destructive potential, but the healing potential as is necessary to maintain the health of its practitioners, to fix the inherent wounds and injuries that occur during training and application.. a truly balanced martial art, would also utilize meditation to help clear the mind and enhance focus/awareness.. it would assert a diet and hygiene habits that build strong and healthy bodies and complement the cultivation of internal energies (Chi).. Together, these aspects of Taiji form a life-style.. a comittment to excellence..

Be well...

[bodhitree]

"Sho tai = very, too, much; big; extreme
ji = extreme, utmost, furthest, final
quan = fist

That's the exact (literal) translation. " Sho

exactly correct!

[GLW]

And THEREIN lies the problem with such an approach

Languages are virtually NEVER successfully translated LITERALLY.

Correct translations require an understanding of the languages from and to for a framework.

The idea is that translations are done IDIOMATICALLY.

Tai Ji Quan is three characters and CAN be taken as three distinct words. Doing this, however, you completely lose the idiom that you are trying to convey.

Taiji - from Wuji - void or where there is no distinction, a thought produces Taiji - distinction between the two polar opposites...the Yin and Yang...in its first sense, the Wuji is Yin (the void or whatever) that has now been distinguished from the not-void created by the thought - the Yang aspect....and it continues.

[Rurouni Kenshi]

i would translate taiji as "the ultimate limit" because taiji is born from emptyness, then yin and yang appear, when yin and yang move and seperate, taiji is there.

taiji is when yang become yin or ying become yang, it is represented by the drop in each side in the simbol of taiji.

taijiquan use fa-jing to chang yang into yin or yin into yang, there fore taijiquan is the art of transforming a force into its opposit.

fa-jing is then taiji, and quan its physical application