hung gar guy on Discovery channel/ trapping hands [Archive]

jun_erh

10-25-2003, 01:42 PM

hanby is that his name? big black guy w/ spiked srmbands and wong fei hung t shirt (?) was on discovery channel anyone see it? He did the thing where you bend a steel rod against your throat. We've all seen stuff like that before I'm guessing, but the scientist guys were quite baffled

Also, I used to do Hung Gar and always find myself doing the "trapping hands" move. What is the application/ point of this? Wher is the trapping. just curius

WanderingMonk

10-26-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by jun_erh
hanby is that his name? big black guy w/ spiked srmbands and wong fei hung t shirt (?)

You mean Sifu Donald Hamby?

http://www.quandoman.com/home.htm

Too bad, I missed the show. :(

wm

ZhouJiaQuan

10-26-2003, 07:39 PM

yep i saw it, good stuff, i was impressed when the doctor was impressed.
they figured out rebard(Sp?) would puncture the soft skin on the neck at 40 pounds of pressure, well sifu hamby spiked at 165 pounds of pressure and sustained 60 pounds.

good stuff....

Fu-Pow

10-27-2003, 06:08 PM

I've met Sifu Hamby a couple of times. He is one big dude. Around 6'4" tall and built. He used to be boxer before discovering kung fu. Really nice guy. He used to be the sparring partner of my old Hung Ga Sifu.

As to the rebar thing I'm not sure. I'm always a bit skeptical about these kinds of "tricks."

ZhouJiaQuan

10-27-2003, 06:24 PM

i tend to be skeptical as well about stuff like that. but they did it controlled, established what could puncture the skin, then sifu hamby went far beyond that limit.

i think sifu hamby was in some kwoon.com episodes as well

ctoepker

10-28-2003, 03:47 PM

Sifu Hamby's kung fu is first rate and many in the Hung Gar community owe him a debt of gratitude for his work in the community and willingness to share information and connections. His knowledge, experience and promotion of Hung Gar have garnerd him much respect.

I have been more than lucky to find myself in his larger kung fu family.

Still, this same feat was performed on MTV's Road Rules as a challenge to the participants.

From http://www.mtv.com/onair/roadrules/season12/episode.jhtml?id=16
"Jeremy, Mary Beth and Dave are chosen as the instructors and must learn about old Polynesian rituals based on trust while the others wait and wonder about the mission. These rituals include "the challenge of steel. The "challenge of steel" involves bending a steel rod with their throat. Mary Beth goes first and while she's a bit nervous, she is able to bend the steel rod with the instructor and she is blown away by their amazing feat."

If you have Real Player, check out the video clips.

ZhouJiaQuan

10-28-2003, 07:48 PM

the vids i have seen of sifu hamby have been very good.

but for the sake of argument, the steel in that mtv episdoe(good to see you keep up with mtv 'cause i dont haha) looked a little thin, as well they had there hands around the ends which could absord some force.
the discovery channel peeps 1st figuerd out what it takes to puncture the human skin in that area, which the skin broke at a peak of 40 pounds. sifu hamby reached a peak of 165 lbs and and a steady 60 lbs. dunno how he did it ;)

i like hei gung, but i alot of demo's of it are tricks no doubt, the truth of it is not in demos but in fighting. imo anyways :)

now off to apply jow :D

ctoepker

10-29-2003, 10:01 AM

...about my intentions!

I respect and admire Sifu Hamby's kung fu and promotional efforts. Nothing my feeble observations can say will detract from his long years of training and many accomplishments in Hung Gar.

His performance garners interest in kung fu and by wearing the Lam Sai Wing shirt he promotes his awesome Hung Gar heritage.
If only more people like him could get on TV!

So, also just for the sake of argument...

the steel in that mtv episdoe(good to see you keep up with mtv 'cause i dont haha) looked a little thin, as well they had there hands around the ends which could absord some force.
the discovery channel peeps 1st figuerd out what it takes to puncture the human skin in that area, which the skin broke at a peak of 40 pounds. sifu hamby reached a peak of 165 lbs and and a steady 60 lbs.

It stands to reason that an inexperienced 5-foot-something, 150lbs, 20-something kid would use thinner bars. As for their hands, that was to 'ensure' it stayed on the soft part, right? I have no doubt that Sifu Hamby applied over 165lbs, but I would like to ask Penn & Teller how its done. [;)]

CT

TenTigers

10-29-2003, 06:43 PM

Chi-Kung-shmee-gung, puncture-shmuncture! This is the oldest trick in the book, I've been doing this with spears, arrows, kitchen knives since I was 18. (picture me at 18, drunk and breaking yer mom's kitchen knife at a house party-what a maroon!)
The object of choice is placed on the throat-at the supersternal notch-the top of your sternum. The person applies DOWNWARD pressure at the other end and is simply bending the bar, or whathaveyou against it. You can also bend it upwards, but its a little trickier. Rebar is real strong and thick, but it was also a pretty long piece. Do it with a two foot length and push with your palm at the end-shove it foward. You will perform a trachiotomy (sp?) on the Master. No offense to anyone who does this trick,we all like to promote the martial arts, but don't tell me it's real.
Same goes with the bed of nails. Show me a guy who can lie down on just ONE nail, Then I'll be impressed. Sorry to burst yer bubbles.

Eddie

11-12-2003, 11:20 AM

ten tigers is right. Its a pretty easy trick to do. There is a book on the market called the skills of the vagabond and behind the incredible... it expose some of these myths.

No doubt, it takes some skill, but that’s mostly all it does (like juggling).

I don’t know the sifu you are talking about, so no disrespect intended

ZhouJiaQuan

11-12-2003, 07:46 PM

of course it is nothing mystical, i never said it was.

"it takes some skill"

hmm chi kung is skill no?

hei gung really isnt for show, my teacher always talks about the "tricks" behind demos souding like ten tigers(only in cantonese-english) and what not. but yet he still teachers chi kung. hmmm....

and thats all for me :D

have fun

Eddie

11-13-2003, 01:33 AM

Off course, chi gung has its benefits, but tricks are tricks. See it for what it is. Your master doesn’t train chi gung to show of party tricks does he? Your master doesn’t train chi gung to show of party tricks does he?
I’m not knocking people who does kung fu tricks, but its nothing different to David Blain’s (dunno of it is the right spelling) tricks or just about any other circus act.

True show of chi gung isn’t in fancy party tricks.

ZhouJiaQuan

11-13-2003, 10:45 AM

no party trick training here

see my post above

i like hei gung, but i alot of demo's of it are tricks no doubt, the truth of it is not in demos but in fighting.

see we agree after all :)

Falcor

11-14-2003, 05:56 PM

I think that it takes a good deal of skill of pull of these tricks, lot's of practice and time and effort perfecting the skills of the trick, so that would be...kung fu?

Anyway, the real downside of such tricks is that for those who are uninitiated, i.e. the regular civies who do not do KF, that is ALL they associate chi kung with. They don't quite get the subtleties and think that if you do Chi Kung you become Neo.

Same reason why Wushu-fied Hollywood-fu is bad - leads to unrealistic expectations of fighting and martial arts.

anton

11-15-2003, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by EmptyCup
I haven't seen somebody lie on ONE nail but I have seen:

- burning coal on a guys' tongue right in front of me without damaging

I think this has something to do with the heat transitivity of coal.

TenTigers

11-15-2003, 10:02 AM

First let me clarify; Sifu Hamby is to be applauded. He has done so much for our art, through articles, books, and his appearance on TV-he is to be commended. I also realise that this is another way to promote Gung-Fu to the general public.
Case in point: I just came back from the Beacon Theatre where the Shaolin Warriors show was playing-same show as Wheel of Life. They did all the Ch'i-gung circus acts. They even broke metal bars over their heads-(pot metal, which is cast, is brittle and will break, also if it is over tempered. The bars broke into several pieces=probably would have shattered if dropped), the bowl on the stomach trick-still working on it, but it's basically suction caused by abdominal contraction-(ever get two cups stuck while washing dishes?) and holding the kid up on 5 spearpoints-variation on the bed of nails-which they also did.
The audience was absolurely enthralled! They cheered, oohh'd and aaahhh'd.
The forms were basic wu-shu and gymnastics, nothing spectacular(what was up with the guy upside down serving imaginary food with a three sectioned staff? Huh?) I've seen the Beijing National Team-with Jet Lei, and Yu Shao-Wen-they were much better than these so-called Monks. The Nan Chuan was atrocious-poor connection, sloppy, just plain garbage. But the crowd LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!
So, I suppose it will promote interest in Gung-Fu. I only hope that once they realise that all the showboat stuff is not Gung-Fu, that they don't quit. Or, worse still-that charletans don't teach this in class and promote it as the real deal.

David Jamieson

11-15-2003, 10:31 AM

In 17th century Holland, the entire economy was based on tulip bulbs. They were what would be today a petro-dollar or gold standard.

Then one day, someone looked at the tulip bulb and said "it's just a flower bulb" The dutch economy collapsed and receded for 25 years following that.

What does this teach us about what we see and are told as compared to what we actually "know" in our hearts and minds?

Having said that, I will add, Chi Kung has little to do with parlour tricks, but if you never demonstrated anything that was even mildly impressive to the uninitiated, then the art would have been lost long ago.

It is unfortunate that some people focus only on the bull s h i t aspects of chinese martial arts, unfortunate indeed, but frankly in the big scheme of things, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance because they are not wise enough to understand it, then baffle then with bull s h i t and they will begin. :D

eventually they will come to understand on their own what is and what is not.

anyone who has been in a structured discipline for let's say roughly 5 years will likely share the opinion that your views will drastically change as your skill and knowledge develop. Skill and knowledge acquirement washes away assumption, presumption and the doe eyed looks of dazed boys and girls. :)

cheers

anton

11-15-2003, 07:31 PM

^^^Nice post KL. A more recent example of the same phenomenon is the IT bubble. I think a lot of people actually start martial arts with these parlour tricks in mind.. and it takes them some time to realise the true value of what they're learning (well either that or they quit when they realise they don't learn how to break bits of iron on their heads).

David Jamieson

11-15-2003, 07:49 PM

well if the iron is not aneeled and is untempered then it is brittle and you can just snap that slag to bits over your head or even over your knee, elbow whatever.

In other words, if you let me pick the iron bar/plate, i will be most impressed if you or anyone in this world can break it over their head :D

but if you bring your own ala uri geller, I will always doubt it :)

Chi Kung is literally "breath work" it breaks bad habits we accumulate through life and when incorporated into martial arts it actually streamlines our ability to train and to train properly.

There are of course side effect benefits to ones health from it's practice. But it's purpose has never been to perform all the parlour triacks and BS we see atht is called "chi kung" or "Hei Kung" etc etc. That is all and I mean ALL just a load and merely for entertaining people.

Now some peoples martial skills and conditioning can lead them to do some truly astonishing things there is absolutely no denying it, but to put it simply, practice makes perfect, and correct practice makes even more perfect!

It cheapens things far too much when emphasis is forced to be put on the outrageous merely because the viewer is a dullard looking for entertaining monkey boy tricks.

ridiculous really. but how are some of these guys to make their living otherwise if not fleecing the public with parlor tricks. I mean honestly, how many people do you know who are actually willing to do "real" kungfu training and what is entailed in that training?

Not many. For all you guys that have been in hard core training schools for more than 3 years, think about how many people have come and gone in only that short time? How many more will change in the deck by your fifth year? your 7th? your tenth? when will you leave? Because you have to eventually.

cheers

ctoepker

11-17-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by TenTigers First let me clarify; Sifu Hamby is to be applauded. He has done so much for our art, through articles, books, and his appearance on TV-he is to be commended. I also realise that this is another way to promote Gung-Fu to the general public.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say too. Sifu Hamby's kung fu is first rate and we're lucky he can get on TV to raise interest with demonstrations of his power.

Here is a sub-point. Since I agree that this is a good way to get people to sit up and notice, get them in the door and start training...

...isn't it about time we got some new tricks? I mean, martial art stuff from breaking bricks to laying on nails to bending steel are being stolen left right and center by all sorts of groups. If we are to continue drawing crowds and dazzling them to get them interested and beyond the doorstep, shouldn't we come up with something new?

After all, if the Power Team is going around saying they do all these things because of the power of god, and the MTV crowd has seen it all done to death...how in the world are they going to be dazzled and ooohhhing or ahhhing when they come to see us?

What's next for kung fu?

CT

CrippledAvenger

11-17-2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by ctoepker
What's next for kung fu?

Well, that depends entirely on what you'd like to see kung-fu and its reputation become.

Do you want popular perception of kung-fu to be that of a fighting art? Then do demos that focus on that particular aspect (i.e. San Shou, free sparring, free wrestling, etc.) If you want kung-fu to be seen as a medium for health and healing, demonstrate qi-gong, feats of strength, and flexibility excercizes (a lot of IMA and wu-shu falls in this category for me).

Do you want kung-fu to be seen as an esoteric, quasi-mystical mish-mash of things? Do parlor tricks and make Wuxia films. Perform Lin Kong Jin demonstrations, constantly tell people some of the more dubious Dim Mak applications. Hell, it's worked for the last 40 years or so.

The demo seemed to me to fall into the later category, just because it focuses on tricks that are visually appealing but not necessarily indicitive of any real applications of kung-fu. I'm more impressed by some good san shou, freewrestling, or push hands. These, IMO, give the audience a realistic sense of what they can expect from kung-fu while still remaining interesting.

I don't want anyone to think I'm slagging on Sifu Hamby, or his skills. He seems like a nice guy with some real talent. I'm just a little tired of kung-fu being parlayed as this effortless, magical thing, when I and others put a lot of sweat and blood into our practice.

Doug

11-18-2003, 11:19 AM

Hey,

Sifu Hamby and I are students of the same teacher, Sifu Buck Sam Kong, in California. I would like to say a few things.

Just to set the record straight, Sifu Hamby (or Don as I know him) is a real martial artist. I can personally attest that his skills are real, not circus acts. The metal bars he bends are thick and strong; only someone with real skill can do what he can do, such as bend a bar at his throat. I have seen him do this many times, and the bar is truly aimed in his throat. The fact that he can bend it says something about his ability.

If anyone has the opportunity to see Sifu Hamby spar, he will know that the skills he shows for a demonstration are real. Not only can he bend a thick steel bar but he can also use his chi to defend himself (as would any serious, long-term practitioner of Hung Gar). One of my kung fu brothers took a friend of ours to a new year celebration (this friend was a karate practitioner and was pretty big) where Sifu Hamby was going to perform the iron wire demonstration. To test his chi, Sifu Hamby asked our friend to punch him in the stomach. He did but with less force because he was worried he would hurt Don. Sifu Hamby said, "Come on! Really hit me!" With full force, our friend punched his stomach with no effect. It was not a matter of using his strength to avoid pain; he used his chi.

I am happy to hear that no one is claiming Sifu Hamby is a false kung fu practitioner because he would not back down from any challenge or assertion along those lines. I would not want to be that person (therefore, imagine my relief when I hear no such claims!). Anyone can spar with him (friendly or not), and he will not take long to prove his skill. If one thinks his throat is weak, try to hit it--if you can hit it. But do not be surprised if he laughs as he launches a damaging offensive into the defense that he is bound to break.

Doug M

p.s.

By the way, he is not 6'4"--he is not taller than me, and I am 6'2". However, he is as big as a house, and the fact that he can be that big muscularly, use his chi, and move so fast is a testament to the foundational skills that kung fu can provide.

MasterKiller

11-18-2003, 11:37 AM

The science of Shaolin (http://exn.ca/Stories/2003/06/09/51.asp)

Doesn't have an explanation for the rebarb demo, but there are some others that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

anton

11-18-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by EmptyCup
I am not sure what you mean. Could you please explain?

It was my bbq. I put a flaming, yes that means coal on fire on the tongue of the person (one of the sons of a hard chi kung master who was maybe in his mid-teens at this time) and he kept it on his tongue while the flames still kept burning for a few minutes with his tongue in plain view.

I think normal people who tried this would be in serious trouble...

I'm not talking about some warm coal or whatnot...I'm talking about it being so hot it was glowing.

Well I haven't done physics for a while, so I don't know whether anyone could do this or not. I do know that anyone can walk on hot coals, because coal doesn't transmit heat as readily as other materials (say iron at the same temperature). I actually saw a show aboutpsychics with a bunch of people including uri geller showing their tricks and they had a german physicist in the audience. Every time one of these psychics did a trick they'd ask the physicist if he could explain it using physics, and ofcourse for most of the tricks he'd say that without closer inspection under laboratory conditions he couldn't give an accurate description. However when a woman walked on glowing coals he said "this one I can explain" and actually took his socks off walked accross it himself, then started trying to explain the physics in a thick German accent and that "anyone can do it". Funnily enough when the host of the show asked the "psychic" lady if she understood what he was saying, she was like: "yeah I think he's saying that if we get together and love each other and combine our energies, we are capable of anything..." etc...
So yeah I don't know about the tongue thing... then again I don't think I'm going to try it any time soon.

ctoepker

11-18-2003, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by EmptyCup
I am not sure what you mean. Could you please explain?

I think normal people who tried this would be in serious trouble...

I'm not talking about some warm coal or whatnot...I'm talking about it being so hot it was glowing.

MasterKiller posted a link that has a breakdown on the hot coals. Check out the video for sure, but in the meantime the site had this to say...

"Soldier monks demonstrate how they can play with fire — or a red-hot iron shovel from the fire — and not get burned. It's a matter of the Leidenfrost effect, so says physicist David Willie. It takes an incredible amount of heat to turn water into steam, more than most people would realize. That heat is used up in that process, and the skin is protected."

More on the Leidenfrost Effect (http://www.wiley.com/college/phy/halliday320005/pdf/leidenfrost_essay.pdf) and more Leidenfrost (http://www.varsity.utoronto.ca/archives/118/mar05/scitech/hotcoals.html)

CT

TenTigers

11-18-2003, 08:03 PM

Chriss said we need new tricks, so here's my contribution.:
I think we have to raise the bar, up the ante, kick it up a notch, bring it to another level, sooo. I suggest we start adding San-Gung-spirit possession into our demos. We'll chant some cool mumbo-jumbo (how do you say that in Cantonese? Ngau-see?) and channel in Neo and make wit da mad Kong-Faux skillz.
Let's make a list of who we should channel in:
!, My daughter suggested Micheal Jackson, but I don't think it would be appropriate for children.
2 Bruce Lee? Branden Lee? Lee Marvin? Bruce LeRoy? Lee Meriwether?
3, Taz
4, Jerry Lewis
5, John Belushi
any suggestions?

ctoepker

11-19-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by TenTigers
Chriss said we need new tricks, so here's my contribution.:

Hey now! What I was trying to say was kung fu shows have a tradition and that tradition has worked pretty well in getting people interested in the kwoon. I am also saying that other groups are stealing our thunder.

So, I'm trying to ask how we can build on that tradition and keep our thunder for ourselves.

Jerry Lewis need not apply. ;)

CT

TenTigers

11-19-2003, 08:34 PM

TenTigers

11-19-2003, 08:34 PM

Bruce Lee and David Carradine did just that. They brought Kung-Fu to the general public and the next thing you knew, everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting! (yeah, David Carradine, in the original series, Kung-Fu, although he didn't know enough to fight Ralph Machio, the series was a tremendous influence on the popularity of Kung-Fu) Unfortunately, there hasn't been anyone to have the same effect. Jacky Chan, Sammo Hung, Jet Lei are all great, but somehow the public never connected them with Kung-Fu exclusively. Too bad. There are Shaolin Monkeys all over town, Wu-Tang Clan has their own clothing line, Jacky Chan has his own cartoon series, and nobody knows what Kung-Fu is.
And somebody puh-leez answer me this-Why the ***** didn't anyone like Jet Lei, or Jacky Chan ever have Wong Fei-Hung doing HUNG-GA !!!????
ps,Steven Segal definately caused a rekindled interest in Aikido as well. so ya know what we really need-Kung-Fu movies and TV shows that are actually about Kung-Fu.

Eddie

11-20-2003, 06:16 AM

Good Post Ten Tigers, just one thing...
the Jacky Chan cartoon is cool.
How can anyone have bief with Jacky :)

MasterKiller

11-20-2003, 07:59 AM

And somebody puh-leez answer me this-Why the ***** didn't anyone like Jet Lei, or Jacky Chan ever have Wong Fei-Hung doing HUNG-GA !!!???? Doesn't Donnie Yen use Hung Gar techniques in Iron Monkey?

Fu-Pow

11-20-2003, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by TenTigers

And somebody puh-leez answer me this-Why the ***** didn't anyone like Jet Lei, or Jacky Chan ever have Wong Fei-Hung doing HUNG-GA !!!????

Answer: Because Hung Ga is boring as hell to watch, just like most kung fu styles.....except Choy Lay Fut of course..hahaha

hasayfu

11-21-2003, 03:40 PM

http://www.kwoon.com/

There you go ten tigers. Support these guys. Spread the word and buy their DVDs....

At least jackie Chan had WFH use a kiu sao. Jet didn't even do that. There was one WFH movie, "New Heroes of Shaolin" that had WFH doing some hung gar. A sequence looks right out of Tiger Crane. Donnie Yen plays beggar so in this movie

Also, north and south shaolin, starring jet li had Hung Gar great, Chiu Wai (and my si-gung) as the technical advisor for the southern monks. There is a seen that has sequence right out of gung gee.

These were exciting. For fu-pow, I know you are kiding around so take this in the same light, but name a great CLF movie besides the one with your si-gung. Lots of the old shaw bros movies have a heavy hung gar base. Of course mainly due to Gordon liu and family being hung gar folks.

AhBenG

11-22-2003, 05:33 AM

umm off topic but i know some of you guys are on it...is the lion dance mailing list dead??? The last msg I recieved was on nov17th, but i e-mailed something and it didn't seem to work. Grr. would someone kindly tell me their last message they got from the list? Thanks :)

TenTigers

11-24-2003, 05:32 PM

actually, there was a good scene with Choy Li Fut. Remember in Drunken Master II,Wong Fei-Hung wipes the flo' with the CLF guy in the fish market. (Nyah-Nyah ;-p ) yeah, and Wong Fei-Hung wuzn't even USING his Hung-Ga! Hah! So THERE!
But serioulsy, folks-there is alot of Hung Ga in the movies-Gordon Liu usually represents, and the scene with Jacky Chan (not sure of the movie-perhaps supercop?) fighting the guys from People's Rep of China in the gym-there was alot of Nam Kuen, and in the same movie,Jacky Chan does a section of Fu-Hok on the top of the train, right before he sits down and the other guy buys it.
But never do they mention that it's Hung-Ga. Heck, they didn't mention Bagua or Hsing-Yi in "The One" and it was all through it. Too bad it was only a characature of it and no real technique-but just the same, it was good to see it.