Source of Shaolin-Do Willfull Ignorance

[Fu-Pow]

I just came across this on the Shaolin-Do.com website. It was copied and pasted verbatim (but the Capitals are mine. )


"Attitude toward your teacher

Your teacher is the source of your ENTIRE knowledge. They should be treated with great respect, not only for their physical ability, but for their ability to teach. When your teacher tells you something, you should believe it. You should follow their advice almost BLINDLY because they have been there before. Grandmaster The' is probably the ONLY PERSON in the world with a comprehensive knowledge of the Shaolin system. You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader.


We are extremely lucky to have him as our Grandmaster and you should not forget it. The old saying that familiarity breeds contempt is true, don't let this happen to you with your teacher or master. The friendlier you become with them the luckier you should feel and the more respect you should show. Loyalty to your teacher and master is a must. Without loyalty, there is no respect or trust. There have been traitors to us in the past and in almost every instance, the reason has been their massive egos, lack of respect and self discipline, and little or no loyalty. Don't let this happen to you. "

*****This explains a lot. It's funny how they use the language ALMOST and PROBABLY so then when someone calls them on it they can back out of it.

[Fu-Pow]

Just found a great pic of some SD black belts in action....


http://www.ohioshaolin.com/ohio_s2.jpg


Yes...that's right....BLACK BELTS!!!

[Water Dragon]

anybody want some kool-aid?

[Fu-Pow]

http://www.ohioshaolin.com/SHAOLINDO%20Images/ShaolinTemple.htm

More fascinating info on Shaolin-Do's links to the University of Shaolin's academic program.

Scroll down the page to find out what forms were taught at what temple.

[lkfmdc]

I have a very simple question, have ANY of these guys ever held a map of China in their hands? The stuff they say even regarding geography is a joke......

[Fu-Pow]

More useful stuff (BTW, I'm just combing the SD websites for tasty little nuggets.)

from swshaolin.com:

The Psychologist Abraham Maslow & Shaolin-Do

One of this century's best known Psychologists, Abraham Maslow, theorized that all humans desire self-growth and actualization. His theory, called the hierarchy of needs, suggested that a person first had to satisfy the baser needs before working on personal growth, identity and higher purpose within society. These needs are as follows (paraphrased).

1.) Hunger, Thirst, Procreation
2.) Safety & Security = Shaolin-Do
3.) Community, Belonging, Being Loved = Shaolin-Do
4.) Self-Esteem = Shaolin-Do
5.) Self-Actualizing (discovering your identity and purpose in the world) = Shaolin-Do


****Did somebody say CULT????

[Starchaser107]

that's deep man.
:cool:

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
More useful stuff (BTW, I'm just combing the SD websites for tasty little nuggets.)

from swshaolin.com:

The Psychologist Abraham Maslow & Shaolin-Do

One of this century's best known Psychologists, Abraham Maslow, theorized that all humans desire self-growth and actualization. His theory, called the hierarchy of needs, suggested that a person first had to satisfy the baser needs before working on personal growth, identity and higher purpose within society. These needs are as follows (paraphrased).

1.) Hunger, Thirst, Procreation
2.) Safety & Security = Shaolin-Do
3.) Community, Belonging, Being Loved = Shaolin-Do
4.) Self-Esteem = Shaolin-Do
5.) Self-Actualizing (discovering your identity and purpose in the world) = Shaolin-Do


****Did somebody say CULT????

A real cult would have had:

1.) Hunger, Thirst, Procreation = Shaolin-Do

:D :D :D

[Ray Pina]

The black belt on the right doesn't want his right knee. Neither of them want any of their vital organs with their hands/weapons out like that.

Got, I am more thankful for my training everyday. The value just keeps climbing and climbing.

This is not SD specific. There are a lot of stupid MA out there just joking around.

[Black Jack]

You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader.-

That has to be the most retarded lump of nonsense I have read in awhile. Someone should eyegouge the fool who wrote that and then tie him up and make him listen to Atom Ant.

[Fu-Pow]

Well the story gets even more interesting:

Check this out:

"To show the diversity of fighting styles available throughout China, the following list names the various monasteries that existed at one point in time. A brief summary of the styles attributed to have been developed by the different monasteries is: Honan - Northern Fist, Ground Dragon, Monkey Praying Mantis, Cotton Fist, eight Drunken Immortals, 10,000 Lotuses Blooming, Golden Snake, Staff, Spear, Jointed Sticks, Single Broadswords, Double Broadswords, Tiger Hook Swords, Double Edged Sword, Three Sectional Staff, Chain Whip, Double daggers, Double Hand Axes, Single and Double Butterfly Knives. Fukien - Southern Fist, Golden Centipede, Sparrow, White Monkey, Wild Horse, Iron Bone Training, Iron Palm Training, Iron Shirt Training, Short Fist. Kwangtung - Tiger-Crane System, Fist of Ch'a, Crab, Golden Roaches, 10,000 Bees Attacking. Shantung - Shantung Black Tiger, Tan Family Leg Techniques. Omei Shan - White Crane, Eagle Claw, Golden ****, white Swan, Ostrich. Wutang Mountain - T'ai Chi Ch'uan, Pa Kua Chang, Hsing I Ch'uan, Liu Hsing Ch'uan, T'ai Chi Broadsword, Spear, Ta Mo Sword and Double Sword and Spear, Seven Star Sword. Hua Mountain - Classical Fist of Hua, Modern Fist of Hua, Chang Ch'uan. "

Shaolin Do? NOOOOOOPPPPPE!!!!!!!

"As stated earlier, the influence of these unique styles are still highly present in modern American Kenpo styles."

It's from the American Kenpo Karate Association website:

http://www.kenpojourney.20m.com/about.html

[Fu-Pow]

Not from a Shaolin Do site but still pretty interesting.

"Westerners were largely unaware than China even had any martial arts until Bruce Lee exploded onto the television screen in the Green Hornet series, and on the silver screen with four movies. The success of Bruce Lee on film created a market for other Hong Kong kung–fu movies beyond the Chinatowns of the West. Then came Kwai Chang Caine in the Kung Fu television series of the early 1970's. Suddenly the kung–fu craze was blazing out of control. Every karate school quickly placed a sign in its window announcing that it taught "karate/kung–fu." Then many Chinese–Americans stepped forward to proclaim that they were kung–fu teachers, and they publicly taught Westerners for a price. Ultimately that price would be the quality of kung–fu in America. Now the descendants of the unqualified instructors of the 1960's and 1970's are themselves teaching others what these pioneering frauds passed off as kung–fu to unwitting Americans. While the quality of kung–fu in America is better than it was two to four decades ago, many problems persist. The three major problems are teachers who are not of Chinese ancestry, teachers of Chinese ancestry who are frauds, and the influx of teachers from China who were trained in modern wushu."

Didn't Sin The start teaching about the same time Bruce Lee started getting big?

Here's the whole article it's actually pretty interesting:

http://www.xianghua.com/articles/kungfu.asp

[trilobite]

Fu, you do realize that in all likely-hood the kenpo guy got all those techniques off of an SD site right???:confused:

[Fu-Pow]

Here's another great article from the same author about CMA's in general and how to pick a good school:

http://www.xianghua.com/articles/authentic.asp

I think Shaolin Do violates every one of his rules.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by trilobite
Fu, you do realize that in all likely-hood the kenpo guy got all those techniques off of an SD site right???:confused:

Yeah I did. And if he did then he's an idiot.

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Suddenly the kung–fu craze was blazing out of control. Every karate school quickly placed a sign in its window announcing that it taught "karate/kung–fu." Then many Chinese–Americans stepped forward to proclaim that they were kung–fu teachers, and they publicly taught Westerners for a price. Ultimately that price would be the quality of kung–fu in America. Now the descendants of the unqualified instructors of the 1960's and 1970's are themselves teaching others what these pioneering frauds passed off as kung–fu to unwitting Americans.


We have that problem here in DR. There are two schools, White Snake style and Cobra's Venom style. They have this fantastic story of their Shaolin origins, when they look exactly like Kempo. The guy that taught them was an american.

A few months later, the black belts of the White Snake school decided to check the old books left by the first teacher. The result: The books are full of inaccuracies and lies. The guy didn't even know the exact correspondence of the Five Elements of chinese theory, among other things. Now that they know they're a fake, they decided to shut up the truth, and carry on teaching and calling their style "Shaolin White Snake Kung Fu"

[themeecer]

I second that trilobite. I had seen this quite a while back on a Tracy's Kempo site. They actually list the forms and their origins in the exact order we list them on our sites. They also list very rare forms and systems like meteor fist.

[trilobite]

Has Grandmaster Sin taught out any Liu Xing C'uan by chance?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by themeecer
I second that trilobite. I had seen this quite a while back on a Tracy's Kempo site. They actually list the forms and their origins in the exact order we list them on our sites. They also list very rare forms and systems like meteor fist.

Are you seriously getting annoyed here because someone has stolen some of your stuff for their system!? :eek: Your entire system was built that way.

:rolleyes:

[KC Elbows]

While that excerpt does sound very cult like, I am of the opinion that at some point, The or someone must've decided not to enforce any of the elements and statements that were most cult like in those and similar texts. The fact that a fair sized group of SD'ers are on here and are able to stay despite differing outside views suggests they aren't a cult, or at least that those guys aren't cultists. Especially considering that a number of them can understand the reasoning behind criticism of The's claims.

Cult members would be heavily insulated from open martial arts forums. While I have seen some SD'ers come on for one or two posts and deride our SD'ers for hanging out with the infidels and recognizing the reasoning behind the criticism is not jealousy or what have you, I've not gotten the impression that there's heavy widespread weirdness going on.

Mind you, if our SD'ers get "corrected" next week and told not to come back here by their higher belts, and they listen, well then, they're a cult. Except for sd himself, because he'll never quit posting, not as long as the kind bud lasts.

The problem with turning SD into a cult is that no cult in Kentucky that ISN'T based off of christianity is going to survive the week.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by KC Elbows Mind you, if our SD'ers get "corrected" next week and told not to come back here by their higher belts, and they listen, well then, they're a cult. Except for sd himself, because he'll never quit posting, not as long as the kind bud lasts.


Well, actually, he's already out, so I guess that's another point against it being a cult - you should ask him about that. There's no doubt that it is "cult-like" though.



The problem with turning SD into a cult is that no cult in Kentucky that ISN'T based off of christianity is going to survive the week.

LOL.

:)

[KC Elbows]

You laugh, Serpent, but I'm not joking. I love Kentucky, beautiful country, and the people can be very warm people, but one must keep in mind that there's some peculiar christians out there. One should keep that in mind even if one is already christian.

It's the tradeoff for having all the awesome bluegrass players.

[Serpent]

Oh, I don't doubt it for a second. Just look at themeecer!

They do have some fine bluegrass though.

[themeecer]

Your first comment of that KC sounded a tad offensive but your explanation to it made it better. I totally understand. I could find a snake handling church within 30 minutes of here. I am tempted to visit sometime just to watch.

Good to see a fellow fan of bluegrass. Here you can go to our churches and hear it as well.

[KC Elbows]

Not meant in any offensive way, simply my experiences. I've never personally been anywhere where the distinctions between churches were so vast. When catholic churches practice completely differnetly, I've learned I'm in Kentucky again.:D As for the cult comment, I just can't picture a cult flourishing in KY that wasn't christian- nbot saying christianity is cultish by default, just can't picture the Kentucky branch of the moonies.

We'll have to talk offline, meecer, I periodically pass through Lexington, I suspect that we've listened to the same bluegrass groups at the same events.

[Serpent]

Well, actually.... christianity is a cult. Paul initially formed "The Cult Of Christianity" some years after Jesus death and that's where the birth of modern christianity happened. Of course, it's also where the teachings of a fairly progressive political activist hippy were first turned into something twisted and horrible that has continued happening for centuries.

[KC Elbows]

I was meaning by the modern definition. Anyway's, Paul didn't speak english, so anything he said doesn't apply to this conversation.

And finally Serpent, you've forced my hand. You're a hypocrite...






























































...I've seen your yahoo profile, mister "into fish, foot washing, and drinking wine in the desert".:D

[Serpent]

God******! I knew that yahoo bunch would be my downfall!

:mad:

Bunch of bloody yahoos.

:)

[KC Elbows]

For those looking for things to do, do a quick internet search for full dinner bar.

I was staying at a hotel at one point, and found this mysterious snack machine in the back that appeared to have a world of candy never before seen by man. Of them all, the full dinner bar seemed most interesting to me, because I did not know if it was meatloaf and peas with rolls, or salmon with couscous and a bit of wine.

So I bought the full dinner bar and ate it. It was like a butterfinger, only without all that excess moisture that you don't know the butterfinger holds until you eat a full dinner bar. Having eaten one, I can now say "Mmmm, this butterfinger sure is moist".

This event took place roughly six years AFTER the makers of the full dinner bar ceased production of the full dinner bar, possibly upon close scrutiny of what exactly constitutes dinner.

On a slight tangent, in grade school my class went on a tour of a soap factory, where I was given a sample of Spirit soap. The soap was blue, and turned the water blue.

Apparently, Spirit soap wasn't quite up to human testing yet, because the soap itself was not released on the market for something like 15 years, the final product completely failing in any way shape or form to turn water blue.

My class also did a tour of a polluted creek, where you could hit little buttons and hear the animals that lived in the creek say things like "I used to frollick here before pollution made this water flammable, but now I just writhe over in that muck over there, a cursed little wretch trying desparately to survive despite the unfortunate and useless mutation that you may call my third nictitating vulva."

[Serpent]

KC, have you mixed up your medication again?

[KC Elbows]

I'll have to double up the dosage.

More food for thought:

If you snort coke, you're a coke head. What are you if you take it in suppository form?

[Bluesman]

KC,
The next time you drop on by why don't you pick up a bottle of bourbon? The good stuff is here. I personally enjoy the Pappy Van Winkle 20 year old bourbon. It is not as pricy as in other states where they add on taxes, transportation, and everyone that touches it puts on their increase. At 70+ dollars a bottle it is sippin whiskey! Try it from a brandy sniffer.
Woodford Reserve is near Lexington in Woodford County. About a 200 year old distillery that is open for tours. Also Wild Turkey and Buffalo Trace are nearby too.
As for Catholics, don't mention it east of Louisville as they will try to convert you. I have had co-workers try to save me from going to h*ll.

[KC Elbows]

I'll have to pick some up, it hadn't occured to me before.

By me, they're just startng to allow alcohol sales on Sundays. A few vocal individuals are complaining about the change, saying that it will lead to more drunk driving, etc. Without exception, it's people who want complete prohibition, and while I get annoyed with people who drive drunk, I don't think prohibition proved very successful in thwarting that.

From SD to drunkenness in three steps. Hello, my name is Kurt, and I'll be your threadjacker for this trip.

[themeecer]

You would die where I lived KC. I live in a total dry county. No alcohol sales any day of the week.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by themeecer
You would die where I lived KC. I live in a total dry county. No alcohol sales any day of the week.

Than where I live must be heaven.

I can buy Booze 24/7 at the local convenience store.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Ah, but how potent is your beer?

Texas has 6% and Colorado has 3%. You'd think Colorado would have more fat drunks, but, alas, it is one of the thinest states.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Ah, but how potent is your beer?

Texas has 6% and Colorado has 3%. You'd think Colorado would have more fat drunks, but, alas, it is one of the thinest states.

5.5% on average. :D

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Didn't Sin The start teaching about the same time Bruce Lee started getting big?



Yes that was about the time he moved to Lexington to take classes at UK. He only taought part time at first. And he called it Karate then too but always explained to his students that it was Chinese in origin . :eek:after after they started to train. Hardly cashing in on the Bruce Lee cash cow!

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Bluesman
KC,
The next time you drop on by why don't you pick up a bottle of bourbon? The good stuff is here. I personally enjoy the Pappy Van Winkle 20 year old bourbon. It is not as pricy as in other states where they add on taxes, transportation, and everyone that touches it puts on their increase. At 70+ dollars a bottle it is sippin whiskey! Try it from a brandy sniffer.
Woodford Reserve is near Lexington in Woodford County. About a 200 year old distillery that is open for tours. Also Wild Turkey and Buffalo Trace are nearby too.
As for Catholics, don't mention it east of Louisville as they will try to convert you. I have had co-workers try to save me from going to h*ll.

I've never tried Pappy Van Winkle, but next time I'm up there I may pick it up. I prefer Maker's Mark and Knob Creek.

[Brad]

and while I get annoyed with people who drive drunk, I don't think prohibition proved very successful in thwarting that.
Would decrease drunk driving, but bloody gangland murders would be up quite a bit... give and take I guess
:D

[Tak]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Here's another great article from the same author about CMA's in general and how to pick a good school:

http://www.xianghua.com/articles/authentic.asp

I think Shaolin Do violates every one of his rules. What an excellent article, and site in general!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by themeecer
You would die where I lived KC. I live in a total dry county. No alcohol sales any day of the week.

Are you serious? Are there any pubs?

Here I can drink in the pub 24/7 in the city and booze is available to buy in the bottle shop all the time the pubs are open.

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks for derailing my post KC Elbows.

You Iron Kim wanna be...:D

[trilobite]

it's $0.02 yazen, $0.02

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Serpent
Are you serious? Are there any pubs?

Here I can drink in the pub 24/7 in the city and booze is available to buy in the bottle shop all the time the pubs are open.
Here in the states we normally call them bars and no there are none here. I prefer it that way. Others don't like it, so they don't stay. :)

[WannabeWarrior]

In truth Eastern Kentuckians far prefer their crystal meth aka hillbilly cocaine and oxycontin to booze.

Hey, wonder what all those dirt poor hill jacks who lost their homes, kids and went to jail for Oxycontin think of ol' Rush?

[themeecer]

Oh that wasn't degrading stereotyping in the least.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by themeecer

Here in the states we normally call them bars and no there are none here. I prefer it that way. Others don't like it, so they don't stay. :)

So you're a Creationist Shaolin-Do student that lives in a place that prohibits alcohol.

Sounds like some bizarro universe! :eek:

[WannabeWarrior]

Oh that wasn't degrading stereotyping in the least.

May be, but it's the truth. Of couse a bible thumping"creationist", right wingnut, Bush apolgists, who hates gays is not the Kentucky stereotype at all, eh?
...if you don't want to be stereotyped don't act stereotypical, right?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by WannabeWarrior


May be, but it's the truth. Of couse a bible thumping"creationist", right wingnut, Bush apolgists, who hates gays is not the Kentucky stereotype at all, eh?
...if you don't want to be stereotyped don't act stereotypical, right?

Heh. I like this guy!

[themeecer]

Originally posted by WannabeWarrior
...if you don't want to be stereotyped don't act stereotypical, right?
Well Einstein, I don't act in the way you described and you still stereotyped myself and everyone else that lives here.

Edit: You edited your post as I was typing mine.... you were originally calling all of us poor dirt hill jacks on drugs.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by WannabeWarrior
May be, but it's the truth. Of couse a bible thumping"creationist", right wingnut, Bush apolgists, who hates gays is not the Kentucky stereotype at all, eh?
...if you don't want to be stereotyped don't act stereotypical, right?
I'll take bible thumping as a complement. Not a 'wingnut.' Yes, I like Bush. No I don't hate gays.

By the way where are you from so I can stereotype you?

[CaptinPickAxe]

Bush gives Texans a bad name...

[cerebus]

Hell, Bush gives shrubbery a bad name!:rolleyes: (unless, of course, you believe it's a good thing that he's repealed so many clean air & clean water laws, & wants to open public parkland for oil drilling and logging). T.

[Brad]

Can't think of anything Bush has done to really help this country.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by shaolinarab
the article on authenticity is indeed interesting and useful for a beginning student, but it is not right in my opinion to speak in such absolutist terms, as it comes off arrogant, misleading, and even incorrect at times. just three cases in point. we've belabored the issues of either sais, nunchukus, or even colored sashes being used in CMA schools (especially the rank sashes), and the author is presumptuous to automatically dismiss any school that does any of those things.


Originally posted on Xiang Hua
If I have hurt your feelings by the comments I made in "How To Recognize an Authentic School of Chinese Martial Art," I am truly sorry. I have great respect for you, and for anyone who works hard at anything. But, I am not being unfair to you. The people who pass themselves off as teachers of Chinese martial art, but are teaching something else— they are being unfair to people whom they deceive. The "How to Recognize..." article is designed to help you and others avoid being deceived by charlatans. Not using the Chinese language, wearing karate uniforms, and awarding and wearing colored belts is a screaming alarm that something is very wrong.
;)

[MasterKiller]

This is a pretty good Q and A.

http://www.xianghua.com/questions/questions029.asp

http://www.xianghua.com/questions/questions030.asp

http://www.xianghua.com/questions/questions045.asp

[shaolinarab]

Originally posted by MasterKiller



;)

ha. nice one MK :)

[Meat Shake]

Kentucky... Kentucky grows more outdoor marijuana than any state in america. :eek:

"fool who wrote that and then tie him up and make him listen to Atom Ant."

Hey! You got a problem with atom ant, you got a problem with me buddy.

:rolleyes:


:D

[David Jamieson]

Hi MK-

I liked those posts from Xinghua and in general terms I agree.

However, one thing he said I found to be quite biased and ill informed. and that was, to paraphrase "China is the motherland of all martial arts".

I'm sorry, but that is out and out untrue. I can look at martial arts resources from as far back as the 1600's that have nothing to do with China, but like Chinese martial arts have been refined and use proper body mechanics as the foundation.

Also, Chinese martial arts didn't all spring forth from Shaolin Temple, in fact martial arts came from all over. there are systems and styles from everywhere that have rich and deep histories and heritages.

For someone to say that China is the motherland is to onbly expose their own historic myopia.

Not to take away from the huge body of really good Chinese martial arts, It is just that I do not buy into that general idea that they all come from China or they all come from Shaolin.

With the internet and it's incessant spread of information, both egrigious and true, it is not so hard to find some really excellent references to some astonishing materials in regards to martial arts. There is also a whole lot of horse hockety being pushed out there laced with myth and legend and fairy tales.

The biggest problem with martial artists today is that they see selectively, listen selectively and perform selectively. All these are a problem because they create a barrier to the truth that is in each of us.

So long as we keep these barriers, is as long as we remain ignorant of the personal truth that resides in each of us.

If you sit at the foot of a "master" long enough, the smell of his feet will begin to bother you :)

cheers

[MasterKiller]

Not to take away from the huge body of really good Chinese martial arts, It is just that I do not buy into that general idea that they all come from China or they all come from Shaolin. I think when most people say this, they really mean China (Shaolin, in particular) is the symbolic birthplace of all Asian martial arts. Everyone knows people fought inside/outside China well before Shaolin ever adopted a martial program, but in modern times, most people associate "martial arts" with Pan-Asian fighting styles; and since Shaolin is really where the study of Asian fighting styles was refined, it becomes the symbolic motherland.

[David Jamieson]

well, symbolically, it is even dangling on a thin thread :D

consider this, Shaolin is Buddhist first, martial second.

Buddhism is an Indian import and India has as long a martial history if not longer than the codified arts of china.

It's first patriarch was Indian/persian and he instructed the chinese in indian methdos of exercise.

Many Martial arts in China had their origins in the military, the Mongol military that is to say and way before the advent of the Shaolin temple.

the Taoists also had martial arts before shaolin as did the mohists and even the Chinese themselves as far back as teh mysts of time go in it's history.

Shaolin became famous because of the skills developed by the monks in the temple, only those monks in certain periods of history who were involved in the anti Qing revolution or the security of the temple (which at times was incredible wealthy) were the actual so called "martial monks.

Kungfu is holistic afterall and the orginal intent imo was to make the monk aware that as a being they are physical, mental and spiritual and not just mental and spitritual or spiritual and physical or any other combination which is according to the ideal, incomplete.

in the west, we didn't know scat about asian martial arts as widely as is known now until after WW2, and the diaspora of the ideas reached a peak, although a thoroughly misconstrued, egrigious and selective peak with the advent of chop sockey flicks from the shaw brothers, mixed philosophy soup shows such as Kungfu with David Carradine and finally the big entree "Enter the dragon" with Bruce Lee. Probably the most widely seen and influential Kungfu movie made to date.

Even today people will argue endlessly about what kungfu is. lol.
To these folks, I say, "just sit down, close your eyes and clear your mind".

There is great value in Kungfu practice, it doesn't even have to have anything todo with Chinese martial arts to achieve Kungfu in your life. THat is the one thing that people seem to miss as they are all caught up in the strings and mindtraps of what they think it's "supposed" to be. :D

cheers

[Tak]

Originally posted by shaolinarab
the article on authenticity is indeed interesting and useful for a beginning student, but it is not right in my opinion to speak in such absolutist terms, as it comes off arrogant, misleading, and even incorrect at times. just three cases in point. we've belabored the issues of either sais, nunchukus, or even colored sashes being used in CMA schools (especially the rank sashes), and the author is presumptuous to automatically dismiss any school that does any of those things. I don't think he's saying, "Any one of these things means that the school is not CMA and should be burned to the ground." He's setting guidelines for identifying characteristics that should warn people that a school is not what it claims to be. Additionally, to compete with the booming popularity of non-CMA schools, some CMA schools are starting to adopt things like rank sashes or uniforms (not do-gi style ones). On the other hand, if a supposed CMA school flags several of these warning signs, some further questioning might be in order.

[Judge Pen]

I know that my first teacher rarely used any Chinese names except for the names of the forms he was teaching. He was an American who learned from Sin The. There were exceptions (La Na Cha for the spear) but He either didn't know the Chinese terms or simplified our instruction and didn't use them.

What's interesting is that I recently saw a video of Sin The teaching Pa Kua. He had advanced students doing the form on his call and he was calling out the palm changes in Chinese. This video, was circa 1982.

[themeecer]

All right JP .. where did you get such a cool tape?!?!?! I would kill to see that tape ... starting with serpent. Hehe Nah. But I would really like to see that tape. We may have to compare video libraries someday.

[illusionfist]

Kung Lek has a good point and it reminded me of something that I often think about in regards to Shaolin and the integration of philosophies/ religions within martial arts.

If we are to associate Shaolin with all martial arts in China, we are ignoring a huge amount of the populace that cultivated martial understanding in other parts of the country outside of its walls and philosophy. If we believe that martial arts were truly integrated with philosophy and religion, then Taoism would have been integrated with martial arts at least 600 years before Buddhism ever stepped foot in China. This is something that also makes me disbelieve the whole "martial university" mystique that is being propagated by SD. The dissemination of the arts and their inclusion within certain philosophies and religions took centuries to actualize. Couple this with the fact that Shaolin itself wasn't that organized and its very existence was actually quite anomalous. Add the fact that other philosophies were more prevalent and were around long before Shaolin and you can see that Shaolin isn't as big as what it's made out to be. This makes the idea of a whole system of Shaolin temples around the land quite preposterous.

In many ways, the affiliation to Shaolin represented an ideal more than an actual body of knowledge. This was more prevalent in the south during the Ching dynasty. The fist did not represent the teachings of Shaolin, but it was a way to rally yourself alongside like minded individuals in overthrowing the Ching. This is another thing that makes the "university system" idea very unlikely since their existence depended on their inclusion into secret societies, the adoption of aliases, and overall secrecy to insure they wouldn't get caught by Ching officials or enthusiasts.

Peace :D

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by illusionfist
This is something that also makes me disbelieve the whole "martial university" mystique that is being propagated by SD.

In my understanding, this theory is based upon two things: 1. The integration of other temple, even taoist temples into shaolin (there has been support for this idea outside of SD) and 2. the assimilation and practice of other arts at shaolin. Folk masters, refugees, etc. would visit temples or otherwise encounter monks and exchange material and information. The resulting hybridization wouldn't be pure shaolin, but it still has a direct link.

Now do I believe that all these temples were opperating at the same time and teaching the material listed at the SD sites? No, but I think that the material we teach can be traced to these various temples at some point in their history.

Anyway, maybe I've been drinking too much again. :cool:

Flame away.

[Meat Shake]

A lawyer that drinks?
You're out of order! This whole court's out of order!

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Now do I believe that all these temples were opperating at the same time and teaching the material listed at the SD sites? No, but I think that the material we teach can be traced to these various temples at some point in their history.
Very good point. I never really looked at it this way. I think that is probably closer to the truth. I still maintain that some of the temples were concurrently in operation and had some kind of communication and/or exchange of material at times.

[shaolinarab]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
A lawyer that drinks?
You're out of order! This whole court's out of order!


hm....working on that post count, huh ? ;)

[Meat Shake]

D@mn straight.
;)

[MasterKiller]

I still maintain that some of the temples were concurrently in operation and had some kind of communication and/or exchange of material at times. This is highly speculative. You have any proof in that pudding?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
A lawyer that drinks?
You're out of order! This whole court's out of order!

*hicup* "Your 'Honor' I call Jack Daniels to the stand."

[MasterKiller]

JP at Happy Hour (http://www.theonion.com/3942/news3.html)

[Meat Shake]

Hwath? Hese gone?! Then I call Jim Beam!?!? *waves a crooked finger about*

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Hwath? Hese gone?! Then I call Jim Beam!?!? *waves a crooked finger about*

"hese gone too??? Whereses Jose Cuervo?" *hicup*

[Starchaser107]

I was with Johnny Walker the whole time and we didnt see a thing.

[Meat Shake]

I shot the sheriff.




































But I didnt shoot the deputy.
:o

[Bluesman]

This thread has made me thirsty...for some good Kentucky bourbon :D not that stuff from TN that gets soak through maple:eek:
Although one of my favorites is named after a TN Confederate General, Old Forrester;)

[BentMonk]

Well, the more I drink, the straighter I walk. :D My personal fav is 12 year old Chivas Regal Scotch.

[CaptinPickAxe]

My fav is Grey Goose and cran...mmmm

[Judge Pen]

Maker's Mark or Knob Creek. Got to hand it to you guys from Kentucky, you make great bourbon.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I'm also a huge fan of a highball of Crown Royal...on the rocks.

[Chang Style Novice]

Scotch, Bourbon, Rye, Irish - it's all whiskey and I love it all!

but special props to (respectively) Oban, Maker's Mark, Sazerac and Tullamore Dew.

And pass me a Blanco River Brewery Firehouse #5 or Full Moon Pale Rye Ale to wash it down with, please.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Red Stripe! Horray Beer!

[Judge Pen]

I think the drinkers have hijacked this thread. Let's drink to that! :p

[CaptinPickAxe]

Hey! *throws head back and pours Heineken down his gullet*

[Chang Style Novice]

Here's mud in yer eye!

[Starchaser107]

Vodka should not be contaminated with juice of any sort.:mad: !!!


RedStripe heh heh , good stuff.

[Judge Pen]

An bourbon shouldn't be watered down with ice or mixed in coke. Straight up is the only way.

[Chang Style Novice]

Vodka should not be contaminated with juice of any sort. !!!

That's IT!

I'm throwing down the Gimlet (http://www.drinkoftheweek.com/archive/v/vodkagimlet.htm).

[CaptinPickAxe]

WHAT!?! No juice w/ Vodka? You're missing out on one of the best concotions ever. "Goose and Juice" is devine...*drools*

[CaptinPickAxe]

I usually don't let my CR sit long enough to let the ice melt.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Scotch, Bourbon, Rye, Irish - it's all whiskey and I love it all!

but special props to (respectively) Oban, Maker's Mark, Sazerac and Tullamore Dew.

And pass me a Blanco River Brewery Firehouse #5 or Full Moon Pale Rye Ale to wash it down with, please.

Wow! Someone here knows the real deal! You just improved immeasurably in my estimation, CSN!

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, that was a new one on me, but I'm going to have to try it.

[diego]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
anybody want some kool-aid?

lol that's exactly what i thought:
Your teacher is the source of your ENTIRE knowledge. They should be treated with great respect, not only for their physical ability, but for their ability to teach. When your teacher tells you something, you should believe it. You should follow their advice almost BLINDLY because they have been there before. Grandmaster The' is probably the ONLY PERSON in the world with a comprehensive knowledge of the Shaolin system. You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader.

[Serpent]

Oban might be hard to find, but look for a good aged one and prepare for a whole new velvetty smooth whisky experience!

As for bourbon and vodka - both straight. Mixing them with anything is criminal. (Although I will drink vodka and tonic if it looks like a big night is on the cards, but that's purely for the longevity of each drink in order to avoid spending a small fortune.)

If you're a vodka fan, check out Polish vodka. Wyborowa is awesome!

[diego]

Originally posted by Black Jack
You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader.-

That has to be the most retarded lump of nonsense I have read in awhile. Someone should eyegouge the fool who wrote that and then tie him up and make him listen to Atom Ant.


lol this prez comment just got funnier being how much i respect yall president monkeyboy goergie crack jr:D

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent

If you're a vodka fan, check out Polish vodka. Wyborowa is awesome!

A man after my own heart.

Luksosawa is where it's at. Triple-distilled potato vodka... ahhhhhhhh.

[Chang Style Novice]

I love Luksosawa - especially "Ras****n" "Madadayo" "Tengoku to jigoku" "Kakushi no san akunin" "Shichinin no samurai" "Ikiru" "Yojimbo" "Sanjuro" "Kumonosu jo" "Ran"...heck, almost all of 'em!

PS - I'm very, very sorry.

[Bluesman]

I think that we would all get along much better ...if we were drunk.:rolleyes:

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
PS - I'm very, very sorry.

Yes, yes you are.

[norther practitioner]

My list of Vodkas...

Ciroc
Grey Goose
Absolut
Red Army
Stoli

Bourbon
George ****el
(best ad I've ever seen too... guy sitting in a small raft.. fishing pole, and dog; Tag line says, waters for floating, ****el is for drinkin')
Knob Creek
Makers
then because of usual proximity... two of my best friends
Jim and Jack

More Whiskey:
Blended Scotch
Johnny Walker Blue
Hallmark (25 year)

Single Malt
Bowmore (I've only had it once, it was more than I spend a big night for a taste...:rolleyes: )
Ardbeg 1977
Glenlivet
Glenfidich
depending on age and bottling...

[KC Elbows]

I did the 100 step dim mak on this thread.