weapons and ground fighting

[Falcor]

How do you guys who train in weapon-heavy arts like Silat, FMA styles, etc train to fight on the ground? I'd think the emphasis would not be on the grappling type of fighting as used by BJJ since a knife could come of nowhere. What tactics are stressed? WHat kind of drills and exercises do you use?

[apoweyn]

I was studying FMA before the first UFC, which (in my case at least) was the first time that ground fighting was brought to my attention in any meaningful sense. I mean, it's not like I'd never hit the ground before. But prior to the first UFC, I'd always been able to reconcile ground fighting somehow. In many of the usual ways. If this were reality, I'd have

Alternatively, I'd berate myself for getting punked by such a stupid technique. "All he did was charge in and put me on my arse." So I simultaneously blamed myself for not being able to deal [i]and denied that it had been a legitimate and formidable technique.

Anyway, all that is to say that ground fighting wasn't addressed sufficiently (in retrospect) in my FMA training. We practiced sinawali (double stick patterns) transitioning from standing to our backs. But that was about it. In truth, I think we should have done more. But what's done is done.

As far as BJJ not being stressed in ground fighting with (as an example) the knife, I think that's the dead opposite. It'd be all about the BJJ.

Think about it. Knifefighting on your feet is very much about mobility and control. Footwork, trapping, etc. Now, translate that to the ground. Footwork is gone. The analogous skill is positioning. And BJJ is going to give you the skills for ground positioning.

More important still: Control. And there are few studies better equipped to teach you control of an opponent on the ground than BJJ.

Seriously, if I'm on the ground with a knife-wielding opponent, you bet your life (or mine) that I want to be skilled at immobilizing or even just "reading" my opponent's weight shifts, momentum, pressure, etc. What else am I going to do down there?


Stuart B.

[Black Jack]

I 100% agree Ap,

Ground knife grappling is often very neglected in certain fma sectors. It does not mean it is not there because it does exist but not every single style will have it or if they do they may not stress it the same way.

When knife grappling is performed on the ground where I train FMA and to be honest I wish it were a performed a lot more its more about exposing yourself to certain conditions and learning from those experiances in a free-flow manner with a focus on the blade side of the experiance. Things like getting control of the weapon bearing limb, limiting the plunge depth, trying to close off knife pathways to your vital areas, trying to get into a position to find a avenue of escape or to bring your own weapon into play.

IMO its a lot about mind-set and just fighting with everything you got and the kitchen sink. In the silat group I work with they have whats called pentas (counterattack) which is a two person training series of attacks and counterattacks with dull but live training blades. Both from standing and the ground ranges.

[yenhoi]

Throw a knife into the mix next time you grapple and see how it changes things.

Then throw in two.

Heres a neat "drill:" sit two people back to back on the dojo floor. shut off the lights. Shine a bright light in one or both peoples eyes then toss a knife into play somewhere. When they hear the knife hit the floor... go! Turn on the lights and watch them duke it out. The goal is to get the knife and "kill" your opponent. Watch as standup, clinch, and ground "games" go out the window. Do this with a magic marker or something that leaves marks for some added realism.

BJ: Ive started doing "tapping" drills with dulled-edge blades. Man-oh-man.


:eek:

[Black Jack]

Cool Yenhoi:D

Be carefull for them accidents. I remeber a nice story about a popular but blind as a bat combatives instructor who was trying to show one of his students his amazing "windmill" reverse grip knife stabbing attack with a dull blade and ended up sticking it almost hilt deep in the poor saps leg....I guess being almost blind.....has its drawbacks.....lol.

Picture redondo goon mad.

[apoweyn]

I've been meaning for ages to put together a coherent curriculum for myself. When I get down to it, both of you can bet I'll be pestering you for drills like these.

Cheers.


Stuart B.

[Stranger]

We address this scenario a lot in training. As a result of this training, I no longer pursue a "tight" ground game when blades become involved. Many "tight" grappling positions do not allow enough space for the trapped fighter to slug his/her way out or launch a reversal, but they allow more than enough room for a blade to do damage. Based on my experience, I am led to believe that a "loose" grappling game is preferable when there is a possibility of blades becoming involved.